Biochem
It sounds like you have a sweet ride biochem. If I was ever to build a bigger engine, it would have to be a 357... Just sounds cooler

My point to bort however is that he said he could make a 350/383/400, outrun (not disagreeing with that part) a 305 and make it get better gas mileage. The reason I say 350/383/400 is because it changes throughout his posts.

His statement in part was:

" I garuntee you I could build a 400 To get better milage than most of the 305's on this board, And I could aslo build a 305 to get worse milage ( and still be running stoich ) than a mildly built 400. "

He has blasted several different people in this post already just because they disagreed with him. A lot of his thoughts come from bias of people against built 305's. Why? Because no one ever builds a 305, so no one gets around to understanding it. My combo includes all the best TPI parts money can buy, which I would need for a 350 ANYWAY... New SR torquers completely ported of course, and a bunch of other stuff that makes it anything but a stock engine. It will be built to run, but will still remain state legal and I will get all of my creature comforts out of it as well. If I ever decide to SC it, I will most likely be able to break 11's... So I am not too worried if people don't like the 334. I will build it, because I always put up. Than we can have a true 334 vs 350/383 on all the different levels. I think it will be fun, not something to argue over.

Snowdog
I DO NOT want a 350 lol
For all the reasons I have put into this thread. I am very serious about restoration, to the point that I even kept the original seats covered in storage. If 30 years down the line, it was ever to be sold, It could be sold with all of the original parts for an easy resto. I have even thought about getting a 305 roller block and having that built, instead of using the engine I have now, but that still has yet to be determined until I have all the parts.



James

 

damn, how did this post turn into this? i just wanted to get my video/sound clip out. hehe.

oh yeah, had to add 350 RULES!!!!!!!!!!! i wish i had one.

 

Yeah yeah yeah... I read that. Save the engine, rebuild it. Save it. Put it in your plastic baggie along with the seats too.

In the meantime get a 350 and you will be happy. No need to hammer on your "stock" motor that came with the car...

 

Hmm.

We've now gone from an XE 262 in your original posting to an XE 262 HR in your latest posting. That's a roller cam with VASTLY different characteristics than a flat tappet cam.

Mr. Bort, we are now comparing apples and oranges.

And nowhere in any of these posts have you actually told us that your original setup was in the 13s. Was it actually in the 14s? You state your first time at the track resulted in 15s. Please bring us up to speed on this.

 

Yes, I was wondering when the flag was going to be raised

And this was Ed Maher's proof that the XE262 ran 13s in a 305

Daniel Burk, whose home page is here http://www.ws6transam.org/fcar.html , has a very well built 305 with ported/polished heads, a high stall converter and 3.73 gears and he is only able to hit 14.0. He also runs an XE 262 and tells people that he wouldn't recommend anything bigger because it would result in a lazy engine in the lower rpms.

 

Is there in echo in here?

Originally posted by Jstcrzyengh
Snowdog
I DO NOT want a 350 lol

Hammer on? You think forged internals on a 334 is going to get more hammered than a stock 350?

But hey I am use to the people who feel that way about the 350, to each his own brother lol

I've already shown in pure buying parts it's cheaper to build the 334 than a 350... I will be posting this on one of my sites soon, and will post it for you guys. Will the 350 make more power? YES, for the umptienth time, but that never was my reasoning.

Also the 262HR is the cam I am looking at, that or the 2032 compucam.

 

350 heh, maybe i dont want one, becuz i already have one...........

the one i have i am actually going to rebuild that as a 383

hey a 335 will be a cool project when the time comes............

hate to say it, but thirdgens arent the "ultimate" car i desire, so i figure, i can make them fast, but will they be the fastest car i ever own? not a chance

oh yeah, the 383 will replace the V6 in my green camaro when the time comes

 

The monte carlo SS never came with a 3000 stall converter. More like 2000. Just like every other G-body V8 with a 2004r has. I had several friends with these cars when we were in high school, and helped one buddy run 14.0 @ 100 with headers/duals, intake, comp 280 magnum (yes way too much cam but it sounded cool and ran ok enough) and stock 3.73s. It went 14.2 still on the stock cam and was far from a 'dog on the low end'
And did you ever notice that the L69 cam in the MC SS is the same cam that cam in the L69 camaros and 85 TPIs. And the roller L98 cam that also came in lots of 305s (like my own) is very similar to that cam. Care to explain how my barge could pull 2.0 60's with the stock tight converter and 3.23s with a cam that is doggy on the low end (2.1s with 2.73s too).

And i'm sorry dan burk needed to port his heads, swap cams, run big gears, etc to run basically the same ET i do. And i won't dispute that running too big of a cam is pointless, and that the XE262 is a stout cam to run with stock heads, ported or not. There's only so much flow (note, that doesn't mean a 204/216 420/450 cam is a better idea when results say otherwise...)

As for bort, the fastest i am sure he has run is 14.2 in the high 98s with some really *** 60'. 99 is a new mph and maybe he found those tenths even still spinning The fact that you can be such a doubter on such a relatively simple combo does make me laugh at you. I'm sorry you pick people who's combos don't run right to look up to. Maybe thats your problem. Maybe you should think, yeah, a non-peanut cam 305 can run in the deep 14s without even opening the valve covers, and then the fun can really start. I seriously would not even turn a wrench if if just getting 14s seemed like a goal, a slower car will get you hurt in traffic....

 

Jesus, A little information Brings a TON of scrutiny.

F-head88 The fastest time with the Car is 13.96 @ 98.6 Mph, On a 2.3 60'

Sitting Bull, Sorry the "hr" Was a Typo, I meant Simply Comp XE262H, additionally Daniel Burk Claims 14 Flat at 100 mph. Thats not Too far a cry from 13.96 At 99 Mph... Differances in our setup Include My use of a Non Compu Controlled Carburetor and Distributor, Wich is a SIGNIFIGANT Differance.

I personally Do not understand why You find my car so unbeliveable. Tim Burgess has Stock headed Lb9's Running in the 12's NA. There are several other 13 second 305's on this site... Whats the Big Deal ?

Juststupidenough, I don't think there is time Left in the day To blow your convoluted and Illogical arguements apart, But I will try My Damn Best...

let me start, By pointing out that A Drastic change in displacement will obviously Result in a Drop in potential milage.

IE 1.6 To 5.7 liters. DUH.

A Change, however from the 334's 5.4 Liters to the 350's 5.7 Liters is Not Such a Case.

The advantage of the 350 over the 334 is NOT the increased displacement. It is the engine's design. It is the lack of valve shrouding issues, the reduced stroke, and everything else.

You have comepletely failed to touch on these issues. Please tell me how you are going to address this.

You ask weather or not The forged internals of a 334 will take more of a beating than those of a 350.

YES, at Any Given RPM the 334 is subjected to increased pistons speeds over the 350 Due to its longer stroke. THIS IS A SIGNIFIGANT PROBLEM.

Increased piston speed leads to Rod stretch and increased Ring Wear. Again, this is a signifigant problem. You fail to address this.

Just this Quote alone demonstrates that you Are in over your head

All the best TPI parts Money Can buy ? What the hell does that mean ? That in addition to your detailed Mod list Including " A bunch of other stuff " Is pretty damn Vauge. Then you mention "Fully ported heads." If you Don't Know what Valve shrouding is... How Do you intend to "fully port" your heads ?

Something you will realize when you go to "fully port your heads" Is this issue Of valve shrouding wich I have brought up already. I am not Making this up, This is a Very Real Problem.

I don't know about the rest of this board, but when Im planning a Full-boogie Build up, I don't have a "bunch of other stuff to make me go fast" catagory, Either. Im usually pretty specific about Just what Parts I plan To use, And Why.

You think your Motor Under boost Will Run in the 11's ? I laugh at that. I will Belive it when i see it. You Tote Willie as an example of How great the 305 is... When Willie is Very A-typical. Willie Has also, To the best of my knowledge, Yet to Run 11's.

Not to Mention, Under Boost... ANYthing can Be fast Just build it strong enough. There is a Single Turbo 305 out there running 9's. But therein lies the problem. That Long stroke Comes back to Haunt you again, Becasue the More boost you add, The More stress you put on those parts, And the more pronounced the Again ever present problems of Piston Speed becomes.

Additionally, I would be willing to bet ******* engine dosent Include " the best Tpi parts money can buy " or " A bunch of other stuff " Either.

You can also Forget about your Good MPG With An engine Running enough Boost To push it over 400 RWHP. It may come as a surpise to you, But Boost is just Artificial Displacement. All that extra Air you add needs Fuel, too.

Oops there went your MPG. Superchargers arent known for working particuarly well on the Lean Side, either.

Especially ones Pushing enough # to hurtle a weenie 334 Into the 11's.


Back again to another quote of yours... Ill admit im having a hard time picking anything worth discussing out of all the Bullsh!t

You have what Stats ? What stats are those... Stock MPG claims ?

What Research ? I didn't see any research...

My Ideas Consist of evidence presented by Others. Go ask Glenn91GTA what his freeway milage is, And then his Dispalcement. I think you will be surpsied. Go Visit the DIY-PROM board. Do a little Real research.

Here's another one..

Both Blocks Will need machining, Yes. Very Astute Observation.

What you Fail to Take in account, In addition to basic Maching, with the 334 you have the cost Of clearancing for the crank, and the added cost of the Stroker Rotating assembly, wherin with the 350 you have neither of these Costs.

AS far as me not grasping the point that With FI, you have the ability to make power and MPG... Is that not what I have been claiming All Along ? That Displacement and resultant Power... Have little effect on MPg ( providing no Drastic Changes in displacement IE 1.6 to 7.4 L ) Do I need to scroll back and quote myself here ? I don't think so. That point in of itself has NOTHING to do with your 334, So I don't really know why you brought it up.

AS for a 12 second 383 that makes 25 mpg, I can't give you one off the top of My head, altho I assure you they exist.

However, I offer a 12 second 5.7 Making 25 + mpg... Chris Chow Ran a best of 12.3 on street Tires in his 01 Z06. 5.7 Liters, 28 MPG.

Thats a Stock Car, So you can extrapolate those numbers to every production Ls6 in the country.



Here are your "stats"

Wich just go to Furter Prove my point.

Two Highest displacement motors on that list, LS1 (5.7L) and Lb9 (5.0L) - 26 and 25 mpg respectivly

Compare them Both to the Honda Accord V6... 3L... Much Much newer technology... And only 28 Mpg.

Thats 2 mpg More than a Motor with a 15 year old Fuel injection System and 2 Liters Bigger. And only 3 mpg More than an engine with comperable technology, but Almost Twice its Size.

Dosent seem to Me that the Almost Twofold increase in displacement Had that DRASTIC effect on MPG that you Claim.

A SBC is a SBC... WRONG again.

You have again failed to Give any sort of acknowledgement to the Valve shrouding and piston speed issues I have presented. I feel LIke a dan broken record here. This is not Make belive. These are real problems, and the valve shrouding especially is the reason you Do not see 305's Running comperable times to Full-boogie ford 302's.

Do you deny this problem exisits ? Explain to me please your reasoning Here.

Or better yet, Go try to put some Hi-Po (s/r torquers are hardly anything worth even considering performance heads, Incase You havent realize, S/R stands for Stock Replacement, and they perform as Such. ) heads On your 305, and cringe when On the first crank, the 2.02 Intake Valve SLAPS into the top of the block.

Oh yeah and one More thing.

THe Valve shrouding issue... This is to the point of limiting Airflow on the 305... What makes you think that increasing displacement and therefore airflow Demands without resolving this issue is going to gain you Anything ?

Daneil Burk.. Your own "research" has show that the 305 peters out at about 300 Hp NA.... This is Because the heads. You can Not Fit a better Flowing head On this Block.

That is with 305", So how do you plan To feed that extra 30 inches your adding ? You are still Subject to the same Head restrictions.

Now go ahead and reply with your whimsical reasons why this dosent apply to you... Or Better yet do what you have been doing all along... and sidestep the issue completely.

 

Damn, I wish I had got into this thread earlier. Slander? I laughed when I saw that. Not to insult your genius, but trusting online IQ tests is just about as intelligent as holding firm that desktop dyno is completely accurate.

Anyhow, 99mph on a 305 is really impressive, but I think the best times you'd see with that stock torque converter will be in the 14s. Whoever's girlfriend ran 98 mph on the 2.9 60 foot, you need to teach her how to race

So many threads degenerate into 334 discussions. I'm not going to touch that more than I already have. It's fairly obvious that 350>334.

As for the gas mileage issue, I'm getting better mileage out of my 350 than I got with my 305. I'd agree that it's all in the tuning. A geo metro may get 45 mpg (if it's manual trans), but it tops out at like 65 mph. Yeah, that's fun.

For you guys that sit on the message boards and "theorize about things," as someone already put it, you're lacking experience and working solely with ideas. Build that 334. Supercharge your 305. Sitting around and saying it will do this and that is worthless, you'll only convince yourselves.

Mark - "True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing..." I forget the rest of the quote, but was said by Socrates.

 

One major thing I think you are missing is that accord is hondas performance accord, it's not their 1.7 liter. Also another point that I made is that the gas mileage is on 87 not 91/92/93, saving a ton of money and really bettering your gas mileage on a dollar for dollar basis. ALL across the board.

Another thing how many Camaro's or Firebirds do you see with an LS6? Ok than bringing that in is not really a good point now is it.

As far as some of the mods plan they will be at the bottom.

To rezinn... I graduated high school at the age of 14 buddy, Had scholarship offers to almost anywhere I wanted to go, and started my own company at 17. My IQ tests are standardized tests by the state of california and recognized by mensa. So you guys can say whatever the h*ll you want to, I know what I have and by g*d your sure not going to be able to make me feel bad for saying it. Especially when someone is trying to dispell my intelligence. One should never walk into a battle of wits unarmed, and that is exactly what bort (and apparently you are now) did.

This post did get way out of hand. It turned into me defending the 305 again. From people that get wood at the site of a 350 4bolt lol

I AM building the 334 and once again not saying I am going to dominate any of you in a race, I told you what I wanted and the 334 is perfect for that use. There are others like me who want, #'s matching, AC, have to pass california smog *****, AND performance all at the same time.

The 350 is not the holy grail to every post on these boards guys.

James

 

Well Put.

 

Speed Density
TPIS Big Mouth TPI Intake
AS&M Ported Plenum
BBK 52mm Throttle Body
AS&M L98 Semi-Siamesed Runners (polished)
24# Ford Injectors
SLP Airfoil
SLP Cold Air
TPIS carbon fiber driveshaft
PowerHouse Stroker Kit
MSD 6al
MSD blaster 2 coil
8.8mm wires
305 S/R Torquers – worked over
SLP 1¾” Headers (coated)
Comp Cams Hydraulic Roller Lifters
Crane CompuCam 2032 or XE
Crane Gold 1.6 Roller Rockers
Crane Roller Timing Set
Stewart Stage 2 Water Pump
160° thermostat
BeCool Aluminum Radiator
JET power pulley
JET Fan Switch
Holley AFPR
Holley Fuel pump
Custom Forged pistons
.030 bore

I am not even done with the engine yet, and this is not including ALL of the suspension, tranny, rear end, brake, etc… Upgrades that I have yet to list. Like I said I am not here to play

Everything will be port/gasket matched, the engine will be blueprinted and balanced.

 

More than Ive ever seen with a Honda 1.7L... Whats your point ?

Wow you graduated Early... again, your point ?

If your SOOOO intelligent ( and being that IQ is a measure of your capacity to learn.. not your knowledge ) Then Sit down, listen to what I have to say and the Facts and evidence I have presented to you, And Learn something.

Admit that the 305 is an inherantly limited Design. Don't Go on spreading your misinformation about how it has just as much power potential as the 350.

Noone is Questioning yor intelligence (altho your continuing missing of the point is starting to make me wonder). Only your experiance and knowledge.

Any intelligent person would listen to those who Had More experiance and knowledge in the situation than they themselves.

Hell, thats how I built a 13 second 305.

Are we going to Continue this BS ?

 

Ill Pass on quoting your Mod list to save Time...

So you have an impressive parts list intending on building a Full Boogie motor...

While personally I would argue about the nesscity and compatabilty of some of those parts, In general You are headed in the right direction.

But.

NONE of this addresses the ( and I hate to say it again ) power limiting valve shrouding issues of the 305...

All that said and Done, I Bet you Run a 13.xx In that car, If you can Nail the Tune ( doubtful ) and Put it together right...

Perhaps I should Say, With all those parts listed, Someome more experianced with SD tuning than Myself should be Able to Run a decent ET.

But Your spending enough Money on all those Go-fast Goodies to Run a Bottom 12 in a L98... Admit to that And Ill leave you Alone.

Thats all I want here, I want It to be clear that the 305 Bore size is a limiting factor in its power output.

That, and Small changes in displacement are not a magor Factor in MPG

 

Btw you might want to save yourself the money, and spend 5 minutes porting your Own

Any Genius Can handle grinding down the EGR wall with a Die grinder.... I would think.

 

There's a reason why "everyone" has a 350, and hardly any at all have a 334.

 

Maybe its because all us Non-Genius' are Missing something...

Oh wait, I have a 305... So what that Make me.. half genius ?

 

You know... It's so not even worth it. Also please REREAD my posts about needing EMISSIONS, as far as the porting goes.

You were one of those kids in school that went to the special classes in school, but always pulled the A in auto shop huh? :sillylol:

I have NOTHING to prove to anyone, Especially Not you. Ever thought of possibly spell checking some of your posts? I make a few typing errors, but to try to make a case to me that you have the capability to understand anything I have said when you can't even grasp the basics of the english language... Well, let's just say it isn't going to happen. lol

" I garuntee you I could build a 400 To get better milage than most of the 305's on this board, And I could aslo build a 305 to get worse milage ( and still be running stoich ) than a mildly built 400. "

Need I say more? This has gotten out of hand. Feel free to lock at anytime.

I will get this in though: Primer your exhausts sounds sweeet

 

Actualy never took Auto Shop, Smartypants.

 

lol yeah I was playing around anyway.

Hey man no hard feelings. Fbody guys should stick together. Let's just agree to disagree, shake hands lol, and walk away thinking each other is right I see your points I really do, I just wish you could see where I am coming from and what I am trying to accomplish.

Like I said let's just be friends lol

 

All I was saying was that it would not be cost effective to do it.

 

Well, I guess my Job here is Done.

Primer, The exhuast sounds wicked with the 262 dosent it ?

I get compliments on Mine Alot.

 

LoL just joking, By Geeze I could not even stand to read this thread. 1st of to darn long. another every one has there own way.3 diffrent strokes for diffrent folks, 4 a lot of time wasted talking about engines. Who cares build what you want and if it cost ya more or less if it's faster or slower it don't matter. another there may be some adults here and some children, Stop fighting with the liltle Micro machines man.

 

Jstcrzyengh,
You make a bit of sense now. Don't stop learning because you think you know everything, you'll only hurt yourself that way. You seem a bit paranoid, no one was trying to "dispell" your intelligence, if that were possible. That quote you said about wits reminded me of the most ignorant person I've ever met, he used to use that one. Funny. Intelligence does not mean wisdom, nor does it make your opinions valid.

Good job starting your own business, you must be proud. I'm impressed. But I also have a bity of pity for you; you shouldn't let your insecurities put you into a little world where everyone is trying to belittle you, we're not.

Since you're so intelligent, you should know that arguing online has little benefit. Stating that you'll be flamed only makes it happen. Lashing out at people with different opinions is not a very mature thing to do. Not that it matters; what you do is of little consequence to any of us. Just know that keeping civility here is a concern, and you're not helping.

 

I find it funny that I work with and have dealt with people that are actually geniuses and not one has ever said "I am a genius" . If you are actually that smart then it will come through , if you HAVE to tell people then theres something wrong on your part.

 

to everyone who complimented my exhaust, THANK YOU. id kill myself if i put all that time and money into it and it sounded like ****. now everytime i pull up next to someone, they look over to see where that ticking and rumbling was coming from. i think if i had a 350 it wouldnt sound as good. someone told me that the smaller cube engine you have, the bigger the cam will sound. in other words a 262 in a 350 wouldnt be as lopey. oh well.

 

Ummm, my 357 passed the sniffer with flying colors. If it wasn't for the fact that I kept having to cram a stock air cleaner onto the Holley (for the TAC sensor) every year... I may have kept the 84 a bit longer. and please don't try to tell me that NC's yearly e-check is less strict than CA's

Bort brings up some very good points about the 305/334... issues which have been brought up and proven by members a few years ago. I doubt much has changed over the years. It's your money though, so do what you want and we'll be here to help you out if we can.

For what it's worth, Bort is running faster thanks to my old exhaust and various parts lol Also, Justcrazy, why run 1.6 rockers... why not run a bigger cam w/ 1.5s?

 

To rezinn
I had to defend myself did you not read the entire thread? you must not have, because you made a statement like that.

First off I posted to primer what i thought about the 334. Your buddy bort decided HE was going to belittle ME. Read the whole post before deciding who was attacking who. Unfortuantely because you agree with his opinions you are going to be quite one sided, I have said in every post I wrote that I know a 350 will make more power BUT...

I also stated WHY. Also a 350 was never an option for an 88 convertible SC, making it technically illegal to install in California. See I research these things, most people have an opinion and can't back themselves up. I come prepared or I don't come at all.

This is really what makes posting on message boards a pain, it's people like you who only read what you want to read. Yeah.. Yeah... I know your next post "Don't post here if you don't like our responses" You know how many people leave this site because of your kind of attitude? Ever think that there might be guys out there that are not in their 20's (or stuck there) that might want some nice performance from the engine they already have? everyone always says put the 350 in. Well, I don't want a 350, what do you not understand about that.

Also when did I ever claim to know everything? My *** do you people not read and/or understand when someone writes anything? The lack of understanding is really astonishing me.

Insecurities? lol I am probably the most insecure person you have ever known. Anyone that knows me knows that. I know who I am, just because you need a bigger engine to make you feel like a man, doesn't mean diddly to me. Once again R E A D the post thoroughly, than you will know that you were completely out of line in your comments.

Evil T/A
Not something they would ever say. Want to know why? Read this post, read it word for word and you will see why. Because you get sh*t for it and it really gets old. I learned a long time ago to say FU to anyone that wants to try to put me down for who I am or what I have or will accomplish in my life. Bort started this whole thing with "ok genius", you take that kind of sh*t often from people? If you do I am sorry for you, but I don't. He started sh*t with me, yet everyone jumps on me... I find it hilarious. It really is a great bit of social commentary how anyone that is different or does anything different from the "norm" gets shunned. Hence this post. Read it over and over, if you can't see how Bort started this whole thing, and that I kept my composure much better than he EVER did, than there is no hope for you my friend lol

This really is funny, but I love debate's, but when people are being slanderous (yup theres that funny word again) it makes no sense to me. How hard is it to say:

'Cool, your building a 334, that's kind of cool. You know the 350 will make more power though, right? Not knocking your idea, I just want to make sure you have really looked at all of your options'

That gets your point across, you dont sound like a AS* and you may get another convert for your collection lol

James

 

Bort,

I'm not actually amazed at your engine running 13.96 with an XE 262. It sounds quite doable, given a nice day and good conditions.

This all started with Ed Maher being upset that I informed people of Comp Cams not recommending the XE 262 to people running a 305. They recommend the XE 256 instead, due to possible vacuum issues and power brakes.

Other people don't like a 110 LSA on a cam for a 305, due to idle issues. F-Bird'88 has always shown excellent judgement in all the advice I've seen him give, thus your twisting of his avatar is juvenile.

And all of this was being measured against a daily driver, i.e., 365 days a year, in a Canadian climate. That means -30* to -40* for a few months every winter.

Thus I chose a Crane PowerMax 260 for my 305 and recommended it to ATA4, who is going to be living in Montreal this winter.

But I would still bet on Daniel Burk's TA beating you in the quarter. His mods are simply superior, unless you've added a high stall torque converter and a set of ported and polished heads.

 

Thanks biochem. That is a great post. You offer to help, but still make the carried over point. I really appreciate your attitude

As far as the 1.6's the original plan was the compucam 2032 and eventual P-1SC procharger. So the extra lift provided by the rockers on the smaller cam will allow for daily driven NA driving, but even better while it's getting blown

 

[

 

You sure about that? The way I understood it was that you can install a newer engine as long as it was avialable in that body style and as long as emissions equiptmen from the engine are installed along with it. You just have to go to a referee station to have it certified , but It can be done. I know of a few people that installed 350's with TPI in place of 305 TBI systems and had no problems passing smog. Maybe its changed

 

Evil T/A
You may be right. I was checking around and have heard the same thing. However, it was nto an option with the SC convertible, it was, I believe available in the 88 IROC convertible.

I still don't want an L98 But I think your probably right about being able to put it in there.

James

 

Jstcrzyengh,
Wow. I didn't even read that huge body of text because I don't have that much patience. I did skim over it. I called you out for starting the argument because of things you say like, "just because you need a bigger engine to make you feel like a man." You're way out of line with comments like that. I didn't feel that bort said anything to deserve the slander comment nor did anything he say justify you stating that he has no idea what he's talking about. From what I've read it's painfully obvious that bort has a better grasp of reason than some. I'd love to tell you not to assume so much, but I doubt you'd listen.

 

Would everyone feel better if I didn't stroke the engine? Just build to say "willie"s specks? I don't get it the problem most people has is the 334. If you are going to plan to put the kind of work that willie did to his car, why not stroke it as well?

 

Rezinn
Ok I need to actually give you the post?

The first post I wrote was the 27th post. Here it is:

Ok, I know I am going to get flamed here lol

Primer84Z
The are quite a few reasons to go with a 334, over a 383.

1) Gas mileage - If it's something you care about, the 335 will beat the 383 hands down. In fact a wild 335 will most likely get much better mileage than a very mild 383.

2) Awesome power curve. HIGH torque down low and high HP up high. If you have DD2000 look at the difference between the 305 and the 334 as far as the curve goes (don't pay attention to the actual HP, because TRUST me that's not what DD2000 is all about ) The 334 makes great off the line performance mixed with top end speed.

3) You keep the numbers matching engine. Not that that matters to a lot of people, but to a convertible owner where only 1859 were made, you bet it does

Now, will a 383 make more power, definetely! If you are looking for track only performance a 383 will do better, but if you are looking for daily driver/undercover cobra killer, well than the 335 is my choice.

Im working on the ultimate 335 right now and am taking a LOT of pictures and writing a lot of steps down, because there seems to be a big consenses of people who want information on them.

Primer84Z Your exhaust is sweet. You got to love being able to set off car alarms a mile away

Never do I say anything about a 350 being inferior IN FACT I wrote that a 383 will DEFINETELY make more power. Here is what bort wrote in retort on post 32:

Okay Genius... let me show you why your Off_base.

1.) Gas milage. Displacement has very little to Do with Gas Milage. People who argue that a 305 will get better milage than a 350 or a 335 than a 383 ect are retarded. I garuntee you I could build a 400 To get better milage than most of the 305's on this board, And I could aslo build a 305 to get worse milage ( and still be running stoich ) than a mildly built 400. So Don't bring that up Becuse it don't make a **** o Differance.

2.) Awesome power Curve ? I think you need to pull your head out of DD2000 and put it Into the real world. Yeah, the 334 Will Make more power than a Similarly Built 305. What you Fail to recognize is that a 350 with All the Same Parts, Will Make even more. Not to mention it won't have the problems inherant in the 305's small bore with Valve shrouding Wich will let you Run Even larger valves and Better heads, giving the potential For even More power. Even apart from All this, The Longer stroke of the 334 & 383 Increases Piston Speeds Acrost the RPM range, What this means is accelerated wear, And Makes the rotating assembly more prone to Failure. Especially at High RPM where piston speeds approach a critical point.

Both the 383 and 334 are Long stroke / small bore engines. The Long stroke Aids in Torque production, And the Small Bore In relation to the long stroke Kills its higher RPM Potential For the Piston speed reasons ( among others ) I list above. Comparing similarly built 350 and 335, with Simliar quality Internals, The 350 Will Always Make More power, And High RPm Longevity will Be Much increased over the 334. ( or 383 or 400 for that matter )

The Benifit of the 383 over the 350 is the increased displacement and the increased stroke for More torque.

Compared to the 400, the 383 is the Worst of both worlds. It takes On all the long stroke piston speed problems of the 400 and couples that with a reduced displacement.

The Same follows for the 334 Compared to the 350. But even More so! Now you Have all the Same piston speed and rotating assembly wear Problems of the 400, And even LESS displacement. Even less Displacement thant he 350, Wich has a Shorter Stroke and Lower piston Speeds! this is really the worst Of Both worlds. The only reason a 383 is worth anything is Because of its Increased dispalcement, and the Unavaliablility of 400 Blocks. The 350 Block is Widly avaliable.

There is no Reason not to use a 350 Wich has a Shorter stroke, wich reduces piston speeds and Other elements of rotating assembly wear, Yet it has a Larger Bore ( thant he 305/334 ) and Larger Displacement, Therefore yeilding more power Acrost the RPM Band, Not only in those higher RPM's where the 350 can reliabley spin and a 400/383/334 Could Not.


In short, the 350 is a Better Design in EVERY WAY than the 305/334. It Encompasses The best of Both worlds in relation To this Mismatched, Horrible combination of a 334.

Is that Clear ? probrably Not. but jesus people WHY DO YOU INSISTN ON BUILDING AN INFERIOR ENGINE????


Does Everything The people who Run and Support this site Say, Fall on Deaf Ears ?

I think Im going to start a Sticky called " Why the 334 stroker is a HORRIBLE idea "

As for the Numbers matching Part, If you want a Numbers Matching car, Then Leave it a 305. If you Bought a Supposedly Numbers matching LS-6 Chevelle, and it turns out some Nimrod Had stroked it to 496, Wouldnt you Be a little Upset ?


Yet I started it? Read more dude.

James

 

I see absolutely nothing you could consider slander, nor is there reason to say he has no idea what he's talking about. Bort makes some good points. We've debated things like this to death long ago, it's not worth arguing about such things if, like Bort said, it falls on deaf ears.

 

OMG! This hilarious... You have the blinders on big time don't you. Ok I will hold your hand with it and pull each line out:

"Okay Genius... let me show you why your Off_base."

"People who argue that a 305 will get better milage than a 350 or a 335 than a 383 ect are retarded." You think that is a good point? Calling people retarded? lol

"I think you need to pull your head out of DD2000 and put it Into the real world. " does low end torque and high end HP, not make a great power curve? The curve is not going to very on DD2000, because it is based upon on flow, like I said before don't read the HO, read the curve.

"What you Fail to recognize is that a 350 with All the Same Parts, Will Make even more" How do I fail to realize that when my original post sad that the 350/383 will defintely make mroe power?

"The 350 Will Always Make More power" Once again he is making this statement, because he did not thoroughly read mine where I said a 350/383 WILL make more power. I have ALWAYS understood that. In the same way a 502 will eat a 350.

"Is that Clear ? probrably Not. but jesus people WHY DO YOU INSISTN ON BUILDING AN INFERIOR ENGINE???? " His opinion, but still calling me a dumbass* lol I don't get rezinn where you did not see any of these... Wait there's more.

"Does Everything The people who Run and Support this site Say, Fall on Deaf Ears ?"

Once again he is basing this off the assumption (because he didnt read my post) that I think a 334 will beat a 350, when I actually stated the opposite.

"I think Im going to start a Sticky called " Why the 334 stroker is a HORRIBLE idea "

Once again wants to discourage people from being themselves...

If you can't see any of what I have said from the above... I won't touch that one.

 

One last chance for you to consider something.

First of all, you are trying to build up a 305 by making it into a stroker. If you are serious and want to do it, go at it by all means. Remember that the 305 motor you are "building" on has quite a few factory problems from the get-go.
Once you realize that the heads are a serious issue, you will need to replace the heads with ones that allow your stroked motor to flow properly. I am sure that the stroker kit you are getting recommends a good set of nice flowing heads for this project? Not to mention the valves being able to clear, and your intake/exhaust valves being able to clear your higher lift camshaft? How many folks on this site have actually built a 334 sucessfully? Have they had any problems with their engine? I would suspect it would have a serious overheating problem myself.

Secondly, once you get past the heads, what about your fuel system? Are you planning on fuel injectors that will work with your new setup properly? Will your ECM compensate for it? I had serious trouble with a .490 lift camshaft. But then again, I have a TBI setup. I am not sure about TPI and how it works for you, but if you have that planned out, kudos.

Thirdly, you are just reading off parts.... have you obtained any of them and are seriously putting them all together? Have you talked to a serious mechanic about how these parts will work? Or are you going by what is the most best of the best parts in your opinion are? Remember, it is not always the case with a good engine build. You have to be sure everything will work properly with everything else, or you will have some problems and wind up spending more money than you anticipated.

I'm not going to say it's wrong to do it, but I will tell you that you will be very disappointed if things don't go all that well for you. Your car may run worse at first. Remember that. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Nobody here is giving you trouble. We are all stating facts and telling you that it's simply not practical to do it. If you believe you can do it for less than having a stock L98 put in place of the LB9, then all the more luck to you.

The L98 would be the most practical solution for a TPI application, since you already have TPI and the computer/harness is the same. You need not worry about anything much except changing over to the L98 injectors and changing the chip. (That may be the very best thing to do.)

Quote: "I don't want a 350 LOL"

What is that all about? You are telling everyone that you want to really work hard and build your 305? Does it run nice? Why change it? Are you looking for more power than you have now? What are you trying to do?

I'm wishing you luck, but I believe you are stroking us all with this. Stop magazine shopping and start researching. Please do this before you spend your hard earned money unwisely.

Talk to some mechanics too! Especially ones that do engine swaps! Ask them! They've been there! You are going the wrong way about this whole thread, when all everyone is telling you is that you'll be investing a lot of money for little benefit.

My .02

 

I don't really think I have anything left to Say At this point...

Greetings!

 

Been there done all that. People just pull SR torquers and AS&M semi siamesed runners out of a back of a magazine? Do you see how long I have been on these boards? Buy a lot of peoples posts I may be one of the only people that use the search button.

If I have a question it is the first place I head to, unless I can't find any viable information. This is why my posts are so low. though I have been here since what november 2000? Now that isn't too long, but for someone who visits the boards every other day it could be much higher.

The parts I have chosen are tried and true, and I haven't found a single person that ever says anything bad about them.

Also as far as overheating:

BeCool aluminum radiator
Stewart stage 2 water pump
160 degree thermostat
dual fan

I have also added some extra "collectors" that will concentrate a lot more air directly into the radiator itself. I am also adding the collectors inside the front fascia that will direct more cold air into the engine bay in general.

Like I said I am no wet ear when it comes to this buildup.

James

 

Then why are you paying Arizona Speed and Marine to Port your plenum ?

 

Because why take the time to do it myself? Never done it before so why do it now? It's only 100 bucks... And once again bort you are taking the entire post of context.

If I can get someone to do it right and better the first time, why wouldn't I?

And NO a 350 for me is not right the first time, it's wrong even for the last time. If I ever change the 305 out it will be to an LS6, or better (Whatever that maybe at the time). Would be great to find a LT5 and drop that in. It's a 350, but very different.

Let me guess there is something wrong with the LT5 too

 

Ahhh geeez okay mr Moneypants.

Anyone who has actually Looked at their plenum, can answer this question For me.

You just don't give up, Do you ?

And Ill give you one Big problem with the LT5....

Price. Ever priced Longblocks ?

LOL

 

You don't give up so why should I? I am very tenacious, and don't back down from my point the same way your not backing down from yours. Though you don't understand my point because you still think I am putting the 350 down

Also if I have the money, what's wrong with spending it the way I want too. I am also putting around 6k into a paint job am I wasting my money there too?

Also there has already been an LT5 into a thirdgen:

LT5 Camaro

LT5's long blocks run about 9500 dollars, unless you know where to go in which case it will run you 6500

James

Like I said I have checked ALL possibilities.

 

I really Don't think there is any more tech related info to add to this post.

- Moving on.

 

You didn't add any to begin with. You just attempted to **** a bunch of people off.

 

First he tells us all that he can do this for less than the price of a 350 swap and all of the sudden money is no object?
I haven't even got a simple answer from this guy at all.
I suppose he's just doing the old time "stroke" on us all to see what kind of trouble he can stir up I guess.

 

I took that picture of the LT5 thirdgen. That paint job was very ugly.

I wish I could read people's intentions, must be a useful skill.