I'm not saying RWD is better than FWD, I just wanna hear some opinions on this, cuz I think it'd be fun.

 

Only thing I can think of , is because it looks weird to smoke the front tires.

 

lol

Few things I can think of:

No torque steer like with FWD
Drifting techniques

 

In drag racing:

weight transfer

 

Preciesely!

RWD is best because weight transfer will always go to the rear of the car and thus maximum power to the ground will only be achieved with RWD.

 

to OPTIMIZE POWER TRANSFER IT IS REQUIRED TO HAVE A REAR WHEEL DRIVE, REAR ENGINE CAR. LIKE A 911. THEY HOOK UP REAL NICE.

 

1. Weight transfer
2. No torque steer
3. Better weight distribution

 

Because understeer Sucks.

 

Try spinning donuts with a FWD car

 

donuts in fwd cars are best done in reverse. but another good thing about fwd is that you can put trays (from fast food places) under the rear tires and pull the e-brake and the a$$ end slipps around like no other. it is by far the funniest $hit ive ever seen

 

Eng looks goofy sitting in there sideways.
FWD is harder to work on.
RWD has no silly rubber booted CV joints to wear out.
FWD usually requires special tools to remove the front rotors.

Most importantly; you can't power-slide a FWD!

 

hehe. i got pictures of that somewhere!!! ill try to find them for you guys... it is funny!!

 

And it also looks stupid to have slicks on the FRONT and skinnies on the rear on those 10 second Hondas.

 

Why is rear wheel drive better?

Cuz it not front wheel drive silly......

 

In all actuality, just like I said Before. Understeer sucks.

In a drag racing application, All about Weight transfer.

Oversteer (wich rwd cars are prone too) Can Be used to your advantage In road racing and autocross type enviroments.

Understeer (push, what FWD cars and cars w/ too much front swaybar are prone too ) Is only usefull for discovering the path of the tangent line to the point on the curve at wich the understeer begins.

 

RWD is more fun POSI RWD is way more fun. Had a jeep grand cherokee...that damn pass. side wheel was always spinning..when i didnt want it to. Downside, RWD POSI will get away from you quicker in bad conditions...unless you are careful. I have no choice but to dive my TA all the time, so this winter will be interesting...
Justin

 

It's also useful for keeping inexperienced drivers on the road. Applying the brakes in an understeer tends to bring the car back under control.

 

my understanding is that the only thing fwd is better for is bad weather traction because so much more weight is on them. rwd is better for hanbdling i hear. awd has some advantages though over both but has some drawbacks as well

 

FWD is better because of gas milage. The power transfer doesn't go through a 90* bend.

In bad weather I would rather my drive tires on the rear because have you ever tried to go through the snow with no traction on the steering wheels?? And try to fit a 454 in a fwd!!!

 

FWD is unsafe,

safer when under control but when out of control a nightmare.
There is no signs of doom all of a sudden your front end go nuts.

RWD you get that seat of your pants feeling, you can feel it slip even before it does and it more controlable the same way. you a can fell it out and swing that *** end all over the place but under control.


I hate FWD and I hate people who drive, FWD cars. cause they drive like a nut, doing thing in conditions that I would never do in a RWD car but cause it seams safe they drive like that.


I will say that secondgen cars suck. your seated way too far back and that seat of your pants feel is screwed up. Ive never owned a car like that. just playing going around cornors it was too easy to get that rear swinging back n fourth and then losing control as it just got wider and wider. Dam thing never stopped, in rain or snow I just prayed no one would stop too quick. most time I just slide through lights. 80 camaro 305 2bb goodyear GTs

80 cutlass was the best car I ever had for the seat of your pants, super controlable even going wild. but not a rail car.


now our thirdgens are awsome, they turn, stop, cornor on rails in rain or snow. hard to get it out of control lose.

 

Hmmm, I don't think some people have ever driven or owned a FWD car before.

If you're understeering in a FWD car and you hit the brakes and don't do anything with the steering to correct it, you will still spin. Think about it -- when you hit the brakes, you are transferring all of the weight off the back end. When the *** end gets lighter, you are just as likely to spin or get out of shape whether you're in a FWD or RWD car.

How is it unsafe? The easiest thing to do when you're out of control in a FWD car is to STAND on the gas. If you're out of control, you are likely on the brakes or off the gas (transfering weight off the rear end, which makes the rear end lighter, yada yada yada). If you hit the gas, the weight is transferred back to the rear of the car. If you stand on the gas in a RWD car (especially one with some horsepower), you might light up the tires, which usually isn't beneficial.

Maybe you don't give as much throttle in the rain or snow, but if you're in the same situation in a RWD car, you're still screwed.

Maybe in regards to the transmission (clutch changes and stuff like that), but other than that it's no harder than any other car. How long does it take to change spark plugs in an F Body? How about a 4th gen F Body? (And no jokes about having four less spark plugs to change.) I can change the ones on my Sentra literally in 2 minutes, probably faster if I really tried.

The rotors on my Sentra pop off as soon as I remove the brake calipers and brackets. All I need is a ratchet and some sockets.

EVERY car understeers if you over-drive it.

Yes, for the most part, RWD cars are faster. They are better balanced -- FWD cars usually have around a 60-40 (front-rear) weight distribution while most RWD cars are closer to 50-50. Having the weight transfer to the drive wheels when accelerating is also a big advantage whether it's drag racing, autocross or road racing. But FWD cars are more forgiving, and even a gimp like me can make them do good things.

Pat, who has caused FWD, RWD and AWD cars to oversteer

 

Better for what?

Actually, FWD is better. It's far easier and cheaper for the factory to make a single transaxle unit and slam it up under any kind of body with four bolts and make it go. There are fewer critical moving parts, less weight, and it leaves all kinds of room in the rear end for soccer kids, groceries, or "Honda" promotional posters and booklets. FWD is FAR better than RWD, from the perspective of the auto manufacturers accounting departments.

For those who wish to have superior performance and are willing to pay for it, however, you won't find FWD on any true sports car. You might find AWD on some high-end cars, but not FWD.

I used to chuckle at Chryslers advertising campaign trying to cram FWD cars down out collective throat in the '80s - "So good, it was outlawed at Indy", or something to that effect. If you do a little research, it was outlawed because it isn't safe at any speed about 85 MPH, not because it provides any kind of performance advantage. Duh! Every hear my little story about the flying Ford Probe? It scared the hell out of me to see a FWD go airborne all on its own, right in front of me, and only because of the aerodynamics (or lack thereof).

Step into your local Aston dealer and ask to see their FWD sports cars. Be prepared to be drawn and quarterd by the Brits if you can't run fast....

 

Wonderful, this is exactly how I was hoping this thread would turn out!

Is it just me though, or is RWD 10x harder to drive in adverse weather conditions? That's my major malfunction.

I wouldn't want to have autocrossed with FWD though.

 

Umm... no.

Braking physics are the same whether the car is FWD or RWD. Understeer occurs because the rear wheels have more traction than the front. Applying the brakes (as inexperienced drivers tend to do instinctively in such situations) transfers the weight to the front, increasing traction in the front and decreasing it in the rear and bringing the car back into line. This is why cars are set up for understeer from the factory, regardless of which end the wheels turn at.

 

i have had both types and i like the rwd better. my fwd was all over in the winter. and camaro is actually really good in the snow. as long as u dont hit the gass all hard and spin the tires like an idiot. if you live in a city with bad roads fwd is death because you'll be ruining you cv shafts every week. i never had so many front end problems on a rwd car aside from alignment. the fwd cars i am fixing the cvs atleast twice a year which is ridiculous

 

Just to add,

From my experiance, I would much rather get into Oversteer than understeer.

The problem, As I see it, with understeer is that, when you do finally regain traction to the front wheels, You are still facing the **wrong** IE going right at the wall.

With oversteer, usually if you catch it in time you are actually facing the direction you want to go.

And, I would rather spin and put my back 3/4 into the tires than go head on.

Watched a Honda Civic SI plow right into the tires At Sears Point on Saturday. How ?

Understeer

 

Hell, Bort, I've seen Formula 1 cars go straight off of the road, Seen lots of Winston cup cars do it too.

OK, almost all cars built by almost all of the manufacturers will naturally understeer. Understeer is a much easier condition to recover from than Oversteer, especially for a rookie or unskilled driver.

Nose-heavy cars tend to under steer more than cars with a 50-50 weigh distribution. Tail heavy cars (early 911's) tend to be easier to get in to oversteer.

F bodies are nose heavy. Most front-drivers are front heavy too. Hence, they understeer.

F-bodies can be made to oversteer by virtue of their rear wheel drive, low rear axle weight, and high torque. That is known as power-on-oversteer, which is different from the natural steady state over/understeering tendancies designed in to the chassis

 

We may be on a different page because I'm thinking of road racing and autocrossing. If I'm midway through a turn going at a decent speed and I lift or brake, the weight transfers to the front of the car. Too much weight transfer unsettles the car and is likely to get out of shape or spin.
You said you're "decreasing the traction in the rear" -- if you're in a RWD car and stand on the gas, you are also "decreasing the traction in the rear." And too much of it isn't a good thing. Lower speed on the street, and it's not as much of a problem. Higher speed or driving aggressivly on a racetrack, you have to be quicker to recover.

Maybe it's because I haven't driven a true grocery-getting (i.e., bone stock, not really "performance" oriented) car in awhile. But I would think they are "set up" more for understeer because the suspension has been softened up. And if you have 60+% of the weight over the front end, you won't be transfering as much weight when you panic/lift/hitbrakes. All that together, and the chances of getting the car out of shape are slimmer.

 

Well obviously if you head into your Apex Too fast, No amount of Design or Power applied is going to keep you from pushing right off the course.

I personally Find Oversteer easier to correct than Understeer.

My car Used to understeer bad, But now that I have lightend out the springs it seems to be a little more neutral, swaying a bit towards oversteer in a non power situation.

Obviously "power on" it will oversteer all day long.

I would agree for a less experianced driver, Feeling the back end swing out and spin you around is alot less comfertable than simply pushing forwards. But There is nothing I hate more than Seeing myself go sliding strait right into a curb and knowing there ain't **** I can do about it.

 

I should add, That The situations of Understeer I am describing are Under braking, So No amount of additional braking will help.

Understeer under power is usually resolved with a lift and brake transfering weight and traction to the front wheels.

When Your Braking hard and Still understeering, that is when Your heart starts beating real fast as the Tire wall approaches.

Of course, that is also when You entred the turn Too fast.

 

The main thing I don't like about front wheel drive is accelerating. Granted, they usually accelerate easier than RWD cars in the snow and rain, but have you ever lost traction while accelerating in a FWD car? If you have the wheels straight and you push the 'go pedal' too hard, the front end will usually slide to the right REALLY FAST!!! due to the slope in the road they put there to cause run-off. I hate that feeling.

Then if you want to turn right or left, you have the wheel turned and give it too much gas, guess where you go? STRAIGHT!!!!! I don't like that.

I can ride sideways down the road with the back tires spinning all day long. That doesn't bother me, and it's actually quite easy. But there's no other feeling in the world then when you want to turn, and a FWD car want's to go straight!!! It makes it so I'd rather walk.

AJ

 

Power Induced understeer, thats exactly what I mean

 

the worse is when u spin forward slowly then they finally grip and the wheel is cut. and u swing to that direction. i almost hit 4 parked cars on diff occasions due to that.

 

Oh SH** NM I Fooked up... said something so stupid I'll never tell what it was...

 

awwww come on man now u HAVE to tell me what u said!

 

HAHA ROFL! dude I am going to try that!

 

FWD sucks because too much torque creates massive torque-steer.

 

LMFAO!! I'm with you on that too! I'm gonna see if I can borrow my ex's Tercel and have a little parking lot fun!!

 

I got a video of that that I downloaded off of a thread somewhere on here, it was sweet. We could do that in our cars if we went in reverse and put them on the front tires, right? that could be interesting.... who wants to video it?

 

Not unless you somehow put a parking break on your front wheels.

 

Speaking of traction and doughnuts, a couple of winters ago I tried to induce a spin in my wife's then-new Astro in the Target parking lot/ice rink. Until I got it to about 25-30 MPH, it would only go where I pointed it. Even hard braking in a turn wouldn't loosen it up much. Between the posi 3.73 axle in the rear, the AWD overrunning rear transfer case, antilocks, and all the traction monitoring, I couldn't push it hard enough without risking a roll. Takes all the fun out of winter driving, but it's perfect for her to cruise around in. The soft compound siped tires are a little noisy on dry pavement, though.


BTW - It understeers like a freakkin' pontoon boat, too.

 

Yeah I know, I realized that and came back to correct it, but too late, someone already saw it.

Duh I'm a moron....

 

This is the point I was trying to make: "As a result, when I move to steer around the dog, I need to be careful not to spin my car out. When on the brakes the car will be unsettled, and can easily spin if turning quick. Hope that makes sense."

Taken from "Johnny O'Connell's Driving Tips #2: Weight Transfer

 

I can probably post 600 reasons why I don't like FWD, but I'll try and stick the facts.

1) All of your eggs are in one basket. If the front wheels lose traction in a FWD, it's all over. With a RWD car, you can steer with the whee if the drive wheels lose traction, and you can steer with your right foot if the front wheels lose traction. This make it (IMO) easier to regain control of a RWD car. It may be easier to lose control in a RWD car, but I think it's easier to regani control once you've lost it. I've done it so many times I can correct for a lot of it by instinct.

2) Weight distribution. FWD cars generally handle worse than RWD. Those that don't, have had a LOT of engineering effort dumped into them to attempt to correct for the inherently worse weight distribution.

3) Packaging and strength. While it may be easier to have an engine and transaxle shoved underneath the car by a robot, it certainly leaves limited room for both of them. Less room translates into smaller (and usually weaker) components. No FWD drivetrain that I know of can compete with a built TH350 and a Ford 9" in terms of strength and durability. It seems like modded FWD cars are always trashing trannies and half-shafts.

4) Weight transfer. The laws of physics clearly show why FWD is inherently inferior in traction while accelerating. Weight transfers AWAY from the drive wheels in a FWD car under heavy acceleration. During braking, FWD only has a minor weight advantage, since both RWD and FWD transfer weight to the front end, and the front brakes do most of the stopping work. In fact, rear brakes do even LESS work on a FWD car due to lack of weight in the back compared to a RWD car.

5) Torque Steer. Ever floored a powerful FWD car and have to fight the wheel to get it to go straight, or worse, have it yank the wheel out of your hands? While torque steer can be minimized through proper engineering and clever design, it can (in my experience) never be completely eliminated once you reach a certain power level. With sufficient traction, a RWD car will tend to go exactly the direction the steering is pointed. Even if you have poor traction, it is usually easy to correct the wheel of a RWD car to stay straight. On a FWD car, the engine itself is fighting you, making it physically more difficult to stay straight. In particular, I drove an Oldsmobile Alero with the Ecotec 4-banger which had distressingly bad torque steer (and that motor was certainly no powerhouse). That particular car even tended to torque steer a noticeable amount on the 1-2 shift at WOT.

6) CV Joints. Ever change them?

Now for the opinions:

1) Instinct is frequently wrong when dealing with FWD. Personally, I find many of the"solutions" to losing control in FWD very counter-intuitive. It's entirely possible that's because I've driven RWD cars almost exlusively since I got my license 10 years ago. If I start to lose traction, I generally let up on the gas. If the rear starts to swing around, I countersteer. I am personally safer when driving a RWD car as I know how to handle them. Throw me in a FWD car in bad weather and I'll be screwed the first time I lose traction, because my instincts are completely wrong.

2) Traction feel. Every RWD car I have ever driven, I have always been able to "feel" the amount of traction the car has with the road. FWD cars to me feel very numb; I can't tell the difference in traction until it's too late.

I will say one thing that can ruin your whole day when road racing a RWD car... and that's trailing throttle oversteer. I really hate that!

 

That webpage has great advice. I'd recommend it to anyone.
"If you have an automatic, sell it."

 

I agree, I had a roomie once that had an Omni GLH Turbo. That car was impressively fast and while it could smoke many V-8 cars off the line (what turbo lag??), I think he replaced the tranny in that thing at the rate of about once a year.

 

OMFG, I just went to the Johnny O'Connell website...

still laughing!!

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by slow305
[QUOTE]

Not all cars are set up for understeer, the Porche 911 and Acura NSX are 2 loose cars from the factory.

 

Of course...... those are rear/mid engine cars. They're gonna slide in the back a little more than others.

Actually the Porshe is HORRIBLE if you don't feather the throttle just right. A little too much gas, and you're sliding. Let off to fast, and you're sliding. The worst is downshifting coming into the turn, and letting the clutch out too fast. You gotta let the clutch out WAY before you get to the turn otherwise it's "WHEEEEEE!!!!!! "

I haven't ever driven an NSX, so I can't tell you about them. It seems that they'd be really well balanced though.

AJ

 

i like rwd cars because you can do donuts and two wheel (posi) burnouts!!