Anon E. Mouse

B4C cars were not in fact "1LE" cars, although the 1LE Corvette brakes were optional in 1991 and standard in 1992 on the B4C's.

The following 1LE/Z28 equipment was not offered with the B4C:

- Air Conditioning Delete
- Baffled Gas Tank
- Aluminum Drive Shaft
- "Heavy Duty Performance Suspension" including, but not limited to:
36mm Front and 24mm Rear Sway Bars
1LE Springs

Also not included, but standard on Z28:

- Leather Shift **** and Steering Wheel
- Rear Wing
- TPI Badges
- Hood Blisters

Performance Ranking for B4C:

With the exception of the Corvette front brakes on B4C's so equipped, it is equivalent to a G92/Z28.

- 305 230HP TPI Motor with 5 Speed and 3:42 rear or 350 245 HP TPI Motor with A/T and 3:23 rear

- Performance Suspension for Ride and Handling

- G92 and required options: Oil Cooler, Twin Cats, High Ratio Posi Rear, A/C, 145 MPH Speedo, 245/50ZR Tires.


[This message has been edited by Anon E. Mouse (edited July 05, 2000).]

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

I was under the impression all 90-92 cars had a baffled gas tank. I cannot confirm or deny the existance of a "swinging fuel picking" described in the 1LE options, but neither my 91 Z28 nor 92 RS has exhibited the "fuel starvation" that I've heard 82-89 owners complain about. Also, to my knowledge, the 92 B4C cars did have the 1LE RPO code listed on their build sheet, and they did have the aluminum driveshaft. 91 B4C cars did not. But I have heard some late 91 cars did... I am not an authority on B4C's, I am just repeating what I think I remember hearing...

------------------
1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed
13.32 @ 105.27 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Webmaster: SoCal F-Bodies
Webmaster: ICON Motorsports

Anon E. Mouse

While both cars may have had 1LE on the build sheet, the 1LE/Z28 package was distinct from the 1LE/B4C.

The gas tanks may have been the same, although articles published at the time disputed this.

The aluminum drive shafts was included in certain non-1LE/Z28 Third Gens during production, without being listed as standard equipment.

Anon E. Mouse

Just to update,

There was a medium quasar blue 1992 305 B4C on ebay recently. The seller showed a photo of the RPO label.

JG1 : (SHAFT, PROP, ALUMINUM) was not present.

zippy

your correct about the 91 not having the 1LE suspension package components since it didn't have the 1LE package. no kidding. 92's were 1LE cars as it was part of the B4C option. making another point. your talking about camaro's so leave the corvette name out. they are camaro brakes when put on a camaro not the "corvette brakes". i'd get into this one more too, but there is a member i know of that will totaly clear this up as he has more than one of them himself. looking forward to this.

98_1LE

zippy, Published production figures state that 705 1LE cars were made in 92. Does this incluse B4C cars?

------------------
87 Formula 350 14.81@91.64
98 Z28 1LE 13.15@107.59

1BAD92B4C

The 92 didn't come with the aluminum driveshaft. I'm pretty sure that it did, however, come with the rest of the 1LE suspention parts. While I've never actually measured the sway bars or tested the spring rate, the 1LE brakes require different spindles. This changes the suspention geometry from that of a regular Camaro. From this one could reasonably conclude that regular Camaro suspention parts (sway bars, springs, ect.) would not work correctly on 1LE equiped cars.

Anon E. Mouse

My information comes via the US Camaro Club.
When 1LE was introduced in 1988 the brakes were commonly referred to as Corvette brakes, although they differ.

Back in 1992 a dealer was offering US Camaro Club members a chance to special order these cars.

In 1991 1LE was optional on the B4C, but 1LE included front brakes only, same as 1992 when the HD brakes became standard equipment.

1LE/Z28 components were distinct from 1LE/B4C components. Witness the fact that the '92 B4C on ebay was lacking JG1.

The Camaro Club noted in 1992 that the B4C's lacked the full compliment of 1LE equipment to keep cost competitive with other police vehicles.
=============================================

Here is some further information, per the Camaro technical data base.

B4C `special service' police package became available to law enforcement
agencies only. Cars were RS coupes with Z28 5.0 TPI or 5.7 TPI drivetrains
and Z28 suspensions. These cars came equipped with the 16 inch wheels and
P245/50-ZR16 tires, engine oil cooler, rear disc brakes, and limited slip
axle. Midyear, the 1LE 11.86 inch front brakes and HD calipers became
optional for the B4C. This package was the only way to get air condition-
ing and the HD front brakes. There were 592 1991 B4C Camaros built.

zippy

98-1LE, i honestly don't know that answer. good question, i'll try to find out.

1BAD92B4C

592 were produced in 92, not 91. 91 production was lower.

Anon E. Mouse

Here is some more 1LE trivia.
Apparently total 1LE production figures for 1991 and 1992 included both Z28/1LE and B4C/1LE, although they were not identically equipped:
=============================================

1LE HD Brakes (only) Production figures for 1991, as published by
Mad Mike's Camaro and Chevy information:

"1991 Factory Options
RPO Description Qty Retail
1LE SpecPerformanceComponents Package 478 *"

=============================================1LE/Z28 Production figures, per the Camaro Technical Data Base:

"289 1991 1LE LB9 (305 TPI) Z28's were built. 175 1991 1LE B2L (350 TPI)
Z28's were built."

=============================================

Since there were 464 (175 + 289) Z28/1LE's built in 1991...

and 478 total/1LE's built, this means that...

there were 14 (478-464) 1LE/B4C's built in 1991.

I hope that before any one flames me, they devote as much time as I have to researching the 1LE.

Anon E. Mouse

B4C production figures are as follows,

1991 - 592
1992 - 589

1992 Z28/1LE production was 116.

Chuck, I believe you are on the 1LE.net board. I emailed 1LE Gregg with the '92 production #'s some time ago, but I guess he didn't believe me, or choose to ignore me.

1BAD92B4C

You were right about the production numbers. 589 in 92. But who the hell cares? I thought the point of this post was to debate the difference in equipment between the B4C and 1LE cars. I've seen the baffeles in the fuel tank, so I know that they are in there. If you'd like I'll measure the thickness of the sway bars. I can tell you right now that they are pretty big. I'm almost positive that the B4C came with the same suspention componets as the 1LE. BTW who are you and why do you care?

1BAD92B4C

THis is a direct quote from f-body.org


Q: What's included in the B4C police package?

A: It was an RS Camaro with air conditioning, Z-28 power train, 140 amp altenator and came with some (but not all) of the 1LE option package equipment. This included dual cats, special suspension, 4-wheel disc brakes, posi-traction, special axle ratio, oil cooler, 16" aluminum wheels, 145 MPH speedometer, and 245/50ZR16 blackwall tires.

Notice the words "special suspention?"

98_1LE

Anon E. Mouse, Yes I am on the 1LE.net. I am friends with Gregg and assure you he and I tend to agree that the 92 production numbers include both 1LE/Z28 & B4C/1LE. But, until it can be documented (unlikely by Chevrolet), it's still just rumor. I would be very interested in seeing the SPI labels from 91 & 92 B4C cars. Shoot me a private email.

------------------
87 Formula 350 14.81@91.64
98 Z28 1LE 13.15@107.59

Anon E. Mouse

Well, to politely answer you:

1. Who the hell cares? - The answer to that is obvious.

2. Who am I - The answer to that is who the hell cares?

3. Why do I care - because I love 3rd Gens and am interested in presenting the facts as best I can.

4. I addressed the baffle point a few replies ago.

5. 1LE/Z28 Suspension was commonly referred to as "Heavy Duty Performance Suspension"
Z28/B4C Suspension was indeed a special suspension, but it was also referred to as:
"Performance Suspension for Ride and Handling"

============================================

Here is a direct quote from board member
b4c1le:

"Well, we happen to have 3 3rd gen B4Cs in the family. Actually 4, but one got totalled. Anyways, the B4C option wasn't available til '91, the Iroc ended in '90. So for comparison's sake, you would have to compare an RS, B4C, and Z28. In '92 you could have a B4C with 1LE (front brakes only), otherwise it is "exactly" the same as a Z28, same suspension, engine, tranny, cooling, etc. All B4Cs are not black and white and driven by donut eating pigs. We have a '92 B4C with 7500 miles on it, full leather interior, power windows, locks, hatch, cruise, etc.
Basically a B4C is a Z28 in RS badges, no matter how you look at it. It's just a poor man's Z, and I'm poor. This post wasn't an intent to flame or argue, just to set a couple of things straight."

b4c1le

I think you all were referring to me. The B4C was not available with the 1LE suspension in '91 or '92, just the front brakes in "late" '91 and all of '92. Here is a pic of the SPID label on my recently acquired '92. It does "not" have a baffled gas tank or aluminum driveshaft either.

Sean B

<img src=http://www.users.uswest.net/~britzis/b4c/b4c16.jpg>

1BAD92B4C

Well I'll be a monkeys bare assed uncle. I just got done measuring the front sway bar on my 92 B4C. Anyone want to take a guess as to the diameter? If you said anything but 36mm you'd be wrong. Thats right, this B4C DOES have 1LE sway bars.

p.haze92

Doesn't the option code FE2 say it all. Suspension Special Performance is what it stands for. I have a build sheet from a 1992 B4C EX-TX HWP and another one from my 1992 L98 Z28. I also have several brochures on the 1992 Police package camaro which states exactly this; Four wheel disc brakes(includes 1LE, heavy duty front brakes). Please don't read into the 1LE being anything else other than the FRONT BRAKES. I have owned several of each model and they are exactly the same except for says RS and one says Z28.

p.haze92

Also on these build sheets I have it has the same codes for the front and rear stabilizer bars for the B4C and Z28. Maybe this will clear it up. Wether or not that is the same size as a true 1LE a/c delete race car I don't know.

98_1LE

Lots of cars got the 36mm bar. My Formula has one and I think IROC's also have it.

------------------
87 Formula 350 14.81@91.64
98 Z28 1LE 13.15@107.59

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

FE2 is just the best RS suspension, isnt it? My 92 RS has it.

My Z28 has the 36mm/24mm sway bars, but I dont know if they're stock. I would assume so.

------------------
1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed
13.25 @ 107.18 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Webmaster: SoCal F-Bodies
Webmaster: ICON Motorsports

nicksL98

iTrader: (6)

okay guys.. as far as i am concerned the 1LE and B4C pkgs. DID NOT have any "special suspension" The man above has FE2 on his sheet of a B4C and my 91 350 Z28 also has the same code and a 36mm bar and the QLC 245/50 tires. I dont think there is a diff in suspension on the B4C, L98's , or 1LE cars.

98_1LE

b4c1le - Thanks for posting your SPI label

Fueling the fire some more. My L98 Formula and Gregg1LE's 91 1LE (305/5 speed) also have FE2, but Gregg pointed out that the above B4C car is missing G92, the performance axle.

------------------
87 Formula 350 14.81@91.64
98 Z28 1LE 13.15@107.59

p.haze92

No B4C's will have the G92 code. I really dont know why but maybe they coded the Z28's that way so it was understood that with it they got the heavy duty cooling, dual convert. exhaust, basically the hottest parts for the car at the time. On my window sticker for my 92' the G92 was a $466.00 option.

92B4C3051LE

My 92 Camaro is option coded with:

1LE,FE2,B4C,G92

I have the sway bars, the tank, and had an Al driveshaft before I recieved the car from the state. I talked to the mechanic who removed it.

dual conv, a/c, oil cooler, lowered 2 inches,

does this help any?



------------------
1992 Texas DPS B4C 1LE FE2 5.0/5spd:
TPIS Tricks
Intake and Plenum Ported
Fully Ported Corvette Heads
NOS FI Fuel Pump
K&N's Adj. Fuel Pressure Regulator
Alston SFC's
Energy Supension Hyperflex system
MSD 6AL
SLP 1 3/4" SS Headers
3.73's with 275/55/16's out back...blew those now 2.73 one legger
My complete back seat
encompases my RF tunes...

Currie 9" on the way with 3.70 gears

Adam

92B4C3051LE

BTW, one more thing, after I bought my car from the TEXAS DPS, I spoke with the fleet manager who "dealt" with each car. And I quote "the only thing we do to the cars after getting them from the factory is to burn the governor off the chip, and recalibrate some of the chip settings..."

Now this was a loose quote, but he let me know that there was some fooling arounf going on with the chips on the service cars.

well that's my 3 cents

92B4C3051LE

one more thing, someone brought up a good point on the suspensions aspect...

my car ahs different springs and spindles than say a non(FE2,1LE,B4C) car....so what cars, and what option code denoted the lowering aspect..... and the different spindles?

While we are at it I've never seen a 91-92 Z28 that was lowered from the factory, like mine and other (B4C,1LE,FE2) cars

Everything in () is for arguments sake!

Still trying to learn everyday!




------------------
1992 Texas DPS B4C 1LE FE2 5.0/5spd:
TPIS Tricks
Intake and Plenum Ported
Fully Ported Corvette Heads
NOS FI Fuel Pump
K&N's Adj. Fuel Pressure Regulator
Alston SFC's
Energy Supension Hyperflex system
MSD 6AL
SLP 1 3/4" SS Headers
3.73's with 275/55/16's out back...blew those now 2.73 one legger
My complete back seat
encompases my RF tunes...

Currie 9" on the way with 3.70 gears

Adam

p.haze92

I believe the front spindles are larger because of the 1LE brakes. As for factory lowered, your springs or struts might be worn out. I had a car like that as well at one time. BTW who do you talk to down there at the state. I know there is a lot of hillbilly mechanics down there that just like to talk. I will say they can build one hell of a transmission for the LT1 Caprice.

92B4C3051LE

Wow, it's really nice to to talk to an ignorant sterotypical **** everyonce and awhile.

When I had my springs out I compared them to a 1990 V-8 car's springs and low and behold they were 2 whole inches lower.

As far as the "hillbilly mechanic", if you would have read more closely, the "hillbilly" was the :

FLEET MANAGER FOR THE TEXAS DPS.

He oversaw all cars that came and went under DPS. Is that a little more clear for the literacy impaired on this board, mainly for the gentlemaen one post above.

Why did I have top do that in a perfectly non-hostile thread...cause you acted like an ****!

Always trying to learn and help out.....



------------------
1992 Texas DPS B4C 1LE FE2 5.0/5spd:
TPIS Tricks
Intake and Plenum Ported
Fully Ported Corvette Heads
NOS FI Fuel Pump
K&N's Adj. Fuel Pressure Regulator
Alston SFC's
Energy Supension Hyperflex system
MSD 6AL
SLP 1 3/4" SS Headers
3.73's with 275/55/16's out back...blew those now 2.73 one legger
My complete back seat
encompases my RF tunes...

Currie 9" on the way with 3.70 gears

Adam

b4c1le

What did the G92 "performance" axle ratio include? In a '92 A4, I believe that would get you 3.23s with posi? If you look close at the SPID label, it has GU5 (3.23s) and G80, posi. None of the 4 B4Cs we have has G92 as an option, so I don't really know? As for the TX Fleet manager, I've heard stories of '91-'92 B4Cs coming from the "factory" with superchargers and "only" 350s. There is a lot of heresay when it comes to fleet mechanics. I don't see why they would have to remove a governer that wasn't there to begin with on a factory chip. But that's just my $.02.


If 92B4C3051LE would like to post his SPID label and/or VIN # we could decode the options and see how your car was setup from the factory?

[This message has been edited by b4c1le (edited July 20, 2000).]

1BAD92B4C

My B4C has the FE2 option, but not the G92. I'm pretty sure that the police or the sombody recalibrates the prom, because if you look at the calibrations with a scan tool it will tell you that the emmissions are at "tier 0" I'm not sure what this means but I think it means that the car was allowed to run with lower emmissions standards. Mine puts out 650-750ppm hydrocarbons. In counties where emmissions testing is required, the legal limit is 220ppm. Glad I don't live in one of those counties.

98_1LE

I think that G92 also included deal cats...

------------------
87 Formula 350 14.81@91.64
98 Z28 1LE 13.15@107.59

92B4C3051LE

b4c/1le...I've already done that myself....

I've never heard of these cars coming w/o governors???????

As far as the fleet manager, he also was weary of the rumors floating around and was passing on good info to me, so that I could pass it on to others that these cars didn't come with some weird combo's ie....sc's, tt's, and such.....

The aformentioned mods to the cars after factory was ALL he said TX did to the cars!

I'll decode my vin again just so I'm 110% correct, just to appease those arizonians out there! he he



------------------
1992 Texas DPS B4C 1LE FE2 5.0/5spd:
TPIS Tricks
Intake and Plenum Ported
Fully Ported Corvette Heads
NOS FI Fuel Pump
K&N's Adj. Fuel Pressure Regulator
Alston SFC's
Energy Supension Hyperflex system
MSD 6AL
SLP 1 3/4" SS Headers
3.73's with 275/55/16's out back...blew those now 2.73 one legger
My complete back seat
encompases my RF tunes...

Currie 9" on the way with 3.70 gears

Adam

p.haze92

Hey 92B4C3051LE, its nice to know that we have a real BAD *** on the list especially since your hiding behind a keyboard!! I meant no bad intentions towards the "hillbilly" mechanics at the DPS. I know most of them. Who do you speak with? Bryan Bargsley or Jerry Newberry? This site is to help each other out and that is what I try to do since between me and serveral friends of mine have owned quite a few of the B4C's(over 20 of them), we have amassed and retrieved some real good info on the cars. That's why I and B4C1LE have been replying. Like I said I have a build sheet from a Texas Highway patrol 92' B4C. Who knows, it might belong to your car. It would be definately worth having but since your are such a tough boy I guess you dont need any help or info. Question, why would they govern the B4C's after all it was the 1st police vehicle to break the 150mph barrier? Also I am originally from the DFW area. So I am a temporary Arizonian. Anyone else found any build sheets? If not, let me know and I can send copies of these to anyone who is interested. Also have the 1992 Police camaro brochures. I could make some copies of that as well.

p.haze92

Anon E. Mouse, do you know where I can get more info on production numbers for 91 & 92 3rd Gens. I found most of the production numbers on camaro tech database, but I was looking for production numbers on the Firebirds as well. I am unable to locate #'s on the 92's especially.

92B4C3051LE

How many 1992 B4C/1LE 305/5spd's were made?

Just some good humor phaze....no harm meant, ease up a little.....

you had a bad case of computer rage...he he

jptaylor2

guys ive already said this on another post so ill be brief. you can say that the b4c and 1le are the same car all you want and you can argue about the subtle differences but it is a matter of what you think is more important in a car. if you look at the 1le you see it as the shining star of the factory road race course. ive seen documents showing an 89 with only the addition of 275 series tires pulling in excess of 1.08 g's. thats bad *** !!! but if your like me and you dont do a lot of road racing then speed may be more your pursuit. it is a fact, not speculation, that the 700-R4 equip. L98 in the B4C was the fastest(top speed) camaro ever produced. 164 mph is the king. nope not even the 2000 S.S. with its 162 mph beats it and thats with a 6-speed. guys you can flame all you want but youll be wrong. the reason for this speed is the fact that the B4C automatic came equipped with a part that NO OTHER CAMARO COULD EVEN BE ORDERED WITH IN THE 3RD GEN FORM. it is the full throttle kickdown valve(GM part #8673948) that came in the tranny. it allowed the trans to shift into fourth gear at WOT and run in fourth until it hit that brick wall we all hate called no more grunt.i happened across this fact several years ago by chance(im actually a formula guy) and it stood out very vividly in my mind. also it may interest you all to know that in sept of 91 the California Highway Patrol(i.e. John and Ponch)ordered a very special batch of B4Cs. they requested that there L98 cars be equipped with the ZF 6-speed. john moss built 2 of these cars for testing purposes and deemed that chevy did not need to make these cars. the speed was never published but there was a leak that it was in the 170-175mph range. one of the cars was destroyed(of course) and the other is on display at Floyd Garrett's Muscle Car Museum in Sevierville,Tn.

hope this helps fuel the fire,

jptaylor

92B4C3051LE

jp,

92 305/5spd's have done 167/8 mph...stock



------------------
1992 Texas DPS B4C 1LE FE2 5.0/5spd:
TPIS Tricks
Intake and Plenum Ported
Fully Ported Corvette Heads
NOS FI Fuel Pump
K&N's Adj. Fuel Pressure Regulator
Alston SFC's
Energy Supension Hyperflex system
MSD 6AL
SLP 1 3/4" SS Headers
3.73's with 275/55/16's out back...blew those now 2.73 one legger
My complete back seat
encompases my RF tunes...

Currie 9" on the way with 3.70 gears

Adam

98_1LE

What is the fourth gear ratio in a 700R4 and what rear gear would the B4C have (I think 3.23?) Would the 5 speed B4C have the lower fifth gear that the 1LE got(.74:1)? Also what is the fifth gear ratio (I think .63:1)? and final drive of the 5 speed B4C. Basically I am having a hard time beleiving the last 2 posts. I'm not disclaiming anything (until I do some math.) I just don't see how a less aerodynamic car making considerably less power is faster on the big end unless it's gearing, which is near perfect in a 6 speed LS1 (in fifth gear peak hp is ~5600 rpm which is 169 mph). The LS1 is electronically limited to ~162 but only capable of about 5 mph more stock.

------------------
87 Formula 350 14.81@91.64
98 Z28 1LE 13.15@107.59

p.haze92

Auto B4C's got 3.23 and the 5spds got 3.42. The car that they are describing I believe is the two prototype "Collector's Edition" that did have the ZF 6-speed in them. At the time the bean counters killed the cars before they put them into production. They were going to make 602 of the Collector cars which was the same # as the 67' Z28. As for final drive ratios I am not exactly sure.

p.haze92

I forgot to mention that all of the literature on the 91 and 92's showed the top speed to be only 151mph max. These numbers were published by the Michagin State patrol tests. They might go more but high 160's, I would have to be there to believe it.

b4c1le

I would love to see a '91-'92 B4C do 160mph+ bone stock too.

1BAD92B4C

The fastest i've ever heard these things going is 152mph. I doubt that any stock thirdgen (Firehawk excluded) could top 160.

ShaunB4C

My B4C hit 205mph yesterday, I know I was going that fast because I had a Mclaren F1 and a Lamborghini Diablo pacing me :-)...by the way this thread is out of control...




------------------
Shaun
92 B4C 350TPI
AFPR, Underdrive Pulleys, Hypertech Thermomaster, Dynomax Cat-back, K&N's, Airfoil, Ported Plenumhttp://www.angelfire.com/wi/lhelm99

Lounge Lizard 6

While the 160+ stories are probably stretching reality a bit...when I had my near-stock (K&N's, SLP cat-back and pulleys) '90 IROC in Germany on the A'bahn, I could pretty regularly roll past the big Euro cars that hit their 155 limiters. So I know I was pushing close to 160.

Temperature and the oil I was running had drastic effects on top speed. Cool, Spring weather combined with Mobile 1 10W30 would let me pull 5200 rpm on the flats. A couple months later during the heat of the summer and running Mobile 1 15W45 and I could hardly pull 4800 in 5th.

Lastly, on one perfect, cold, spring evening heading north on a long, downhill stretch (2 miles worth) of Autobahn 7 (going past Rothenburg, for those who might know the area) I pulled 5400 rpm in 5th. That's w/3.45's. I believe that works out to more than 160. I know, I know I said it was down hill. It was still fun, though.

------------------
Mike

'90 IROC, 5-speed, ZZ4, & Trick Flows
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[This message has been edited by Lounge Lizard 6 (edited July 24, 2000).]

KMK454

I have the MSP test article and the LB9 B4C hit 150 MPH, the L98 hit 152 MPH.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Holy thread bumpage Batman!

Dmiller2222

My dad was able to buy an Unallocated 1992 b4c new through a dealer in Michigan who shipped it to ohio for him. Dark green grey interior 305 and a 5speed . Being 18 at the time I made a few top speed tests in it. It was all it had to break 150 and the car felt pretty unstable above 145. Unfortunatly the last run I made resulted in a visit from the HWP with a 146mph ticket. He still has the car. And drives it every few weeks

Dmiller2222

Pic last weekend