Torque Converters
07-24-2000, 06:11 PM
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Torque Converters
guys I am having my 700r-4 rebuilt and I was wondering what r the benifits of one with a higher stall speed ? I have a s-trim vortech on a 305tpi . which on should i buy or should I leave it stock?
07-24-2000, 06:35 PM
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Car: 1989 Camaro
Engine: 406
Transmission: Pro-built 700R4
The benifits of a higher stall converter is so that your car can launch at or close to where your engine makes the most torque.The power band.List the mods you have like cam,heads,gears and I'm sure someone can help ya pick on out.
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Superman
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Superman
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07-25-2000, 06:40 AM
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Call Precision Industries and ask about thier Vigilante Converter. They can tell you exactly what stall you will need with that supercharger.
It is a little expensive but well worth it.
It is a little expensive but well worth it.
07-25-2000, 05:06 PM
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Car: 1989 Camaro
Engine: 406
Transmission: Pro-built 700R4
I totaly agree that haveing a custom converter built for your car is the way to go if you have the money.My Vigilanten cost my right at $650.00
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Superman
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07-25-2000, 07:20 PM
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Wow thats cheap! Mine is getting ordered this week. Its Close to a $1000 bucks. Which one did you get? I am buying the "0" Pump (3000 Stall) 7 Disc 9.5 Inch Lockup.
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Mike
1989 Turbo Trans-Am
11.42@119
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Mike
1989 Turbo Trans-Am
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07-25-2000, 11:53 PM
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Car: 2006 Silverado 1500
Engine: 5.3L
Transmission: 4L60E
it would help your boost come up quicker, but your probably better off keeping the factory stall to prevent huge traction problems unless your running slicks. if you are, i'd go about 2500 stall.
07-26-2000, 08:52 AM
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Car: Used to be an '87 IROC
Engine: 5.7l TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3:23?
Before asking this, I must make it clear that I don't have any affiliation with SLP...
On what facts do you base your opinion that the Vigilante is better than the SLP and is worth the $ difference? Did you ever run one? How do you know that The SLP convertor wouldn't work just as well?
I hate to see people get steered into wasting money by following recommendations that are not based upon real research and facts.
Maybe the Vigilante is "the best", but how much "better" is it, really. How do you know? Test data? Personal experience from actually running different makes? Is the difference (if it exists) wasted money for most people? Perhaps it's "worth it" if you're a competitive racer, but hardly so for a street car ("daily driver").
Just trying to help people make informed decisions
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'87 IROC 5.7l TPI - original owner!
On what facts do you base your opinion that the Vigilante is better than the SLP and is worth the $ difference? Did you ever run one? How do you know that The SLP convertor wouldn't work just as well?
I hate to see people get steered into wasting money by following recommendations that are not based upon real research and facts.
Maybe the Vigilante is "the best", but how much "better" is it, really. How do you know? Test data? Personal experience from actually running different makes? Is the difference (if it exists) wasted money for most people? Perhaps it's "worth it" if you're a competitive racer, but hardly so for a street car ("daily driver").
Just trying to help people make informed decisions
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'87 IROC 5.7l TPI - original owner!
07-26-2000, 07:31 PM
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The difference does exist and it's HUGE.
Ask Matt98SS, he has run both converters, as well as I am sure there are others. You're right, I can't say that I myself have run the SLP converter. I went fot the best upon the recommendations of not only others here on the board that were running it but every performance transmission shop I talked to recommended it as well.
I also know plenty of people who did run other brands of converters and then switched to the Vigilante, another reason why I passed on the SLP and other brands.
There is plenty of test data & research out there on this converter. Sorry if you have missed it.
Fact is people who are running the Vigilante, like myself, have seen huge improvements in 60 ft times as well as a drop on average of 4-5 tenths in ET. I have NEVER seen anyone show proof or even mention these kind of results with an SLP converter.
The biggest difference is torque multiplication, no other converter does it as well or as efficently as a Vigilante. You do not get huge gains in ET's from a higher stall speed alone, which is all you get with the SLP converter, it is the same size as a stock unit which is 12". The Vigilante is 9.5" which is alot less weight on the flywheel, which in turn puts more power to the drivetrain.
The fact that you believe this is a "race only" converter just goes to show how completely in the dark and clueless you are about them.
They are used on and were designed specifically with the daily driver in mind.
I know plenty of guys running this converter on thier street driven daily drivers running et's in the 12's, and 11's at the track.
Have you seen Johhny Hunkins post about his last mod which happened to be this very converter were talking about ?
Apparently not. If you think an SLP converter is going to do that for your et's, guess again.
BTW, just curious what converter you are running? What kind of gains did you see?
Ask Matt98SS, he has run both converters, as well as I am sure there are others. You're right, I can't say that I myself have run the SLP converter. I went fot the best upon the recommendations of not only others here on the board that were running it but every performance transmission shop I talked to recommended it as well.
I also know plenty of people who did run other brands of converters and then switched to the Vigilante, another reason why I passed on the SLP and other brands.
There is plenty of test data & research out there on this converter. Sorry if you have missed it.
Fact is people who are running the Vigilante, like myself, have seen huge improvements in 60 ft times as well as a drop on average of 4-5 tenths in ET. I have NEVER seen anyone show proof or even mention these kind of results with an SLP converter.
The biggest difference is torque multiplication, no other converter does it as well or as efficently as a Vigilante. You do not get huge gains in ET's from a higher stall speed alone, which is all you get with the SLP converter, it is the same size as a stock unit which is 12". The Vigilante is 9.5" which is alot less weight on the flywheel, which in turn puts more power to the drivetrain.
The fact that you believe this is a "race only" converter just goes to show how completely in the dark and clueless you are about them.
They are used on and were designed specifically with the daily driver in mind.
I know plenty of guys running this converter on thier street driven daily drivers running et's in the 12's, and 11's at the track.
Have you seen Johhny Hunkins post about his last mod which happened to be this very converter were talking about ?
Apparently not. If you think an SLP converter is going to do that for your et's, guess again.
BTW, just curious what converter you are running? What kind of gains did you see?
07-27-2000, 08:56 AM
#13
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Car: Used to be an '87 IROC
Engine: 5.7l TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3:23?
Originally posted by nickd:
...
The fact that you believe this is a "race only" converter just goes to show how completely in the dark and clueless you are about them.
...
That was unnecessarily hateful. I never said they were "race only". I only proposed that they might be since they were being used by people searching for every tenth and MPH they could get. I don't know - it had never been made very clear. That was my point.
...
They are used on and were designed specifically with the daily driver in mind.
...
... but now we do.
...
Have you seen Johhny Hunkins post about his last mod which happened to be this very converter were talking about ?
Apparently not. If you think an SLP converter is going to do that for your et's, guess again.
...
Yes, I did. But there was no comparison made between the Vigilante and any other converter. They just jumped right into the Vigilante with no explanation for their choice.
...
BTW, just curious what converter you are running? What kind of gains did you see?
...
...
The fact that you believe this is a "race only" converter just goes to show how completely in the dark and clueless you are about them.
...
That was unnecessarily hateful. I never said they were "race only". I only proposed that they might be since they were being used by people searching for every tenth and MPH they could get. I don't know - it had never been made very clear. That was my point.
...
They are used on and were designed specifically with the daily driver in mind.
...
... but now we do.
...
Have you seen Johhny Hunkins post about his last mod which happened to be this very converter were talking about ?
Apparently not. If you think an SLP converter is going to do that for your et's, guess again.
...
Yes, I did. But there was no comparison made between the Vigilante and any other converter. They just jumped right into the Vigilante with no explanation for their choice.
...
BTW, just curious what converter you are running? What kind of gains did you see?
...
You apparently took offense to my comments, and I apologize for that. My point was that there is rarely supporting data or evidence presented on this board for choices or recommendations for parts or upgrades. Just stuff like, "Yeah, go with a XXX, it kicks a$$" That doesn't help anyone. Some of us want to know why XXX is "better" than "YYY". Is there a WWW out there that is comparable, but much cheaper? What's better for one guy, may be worse for another. Take the classic 1 5/8" vs 1 3/4" header debate, for example.
I'm not saying my converter is better than yours. I'm asking you to explain why you think yours is beter than mine. You touched on that with your torque multiplication comment. I'm happy with mine. Since I don't race, I can't justify the cost difference of the Vigilante. Many others are of the same opinion. This is why we need to present all of the facts. This is the only way we can really provide help to those asking. Let them make informed decisions.
Peace, brother
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'87 IROC 5.7l TPI - original owner!
07-27-2000, 01:51 PM
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Well, sorry I got a little hot headed about it there but I did take offense, mainly because of the "I hate to see people get steered into wasting money by following recommendations that are not based upon real research and facts." comment. I was merely making a suggestion to buy it, didn't see where I said that was the only one to buy.
I realize now that your intent was not to offend, I apologize.
I would never recommend a part unless I actually used it or had some experience with it.I should have elaborated in my original post about why he should get the converter.
Your point about not everyone can afford to spend $600+ on a converter is a very good one.
My thinking is always to use the best parts, quality and performance wise, no matter what the cost. If I can not afford it, I save until I can. I forget sometimes not everyone thinks, or can afford to think like I do.
[This message has been edited by nickd (edited July 27, 2000).]
I realize now that your intent was not to offend, I apologize.
I would never recommend a part unless I actually used it or had some experience with it.I should have elaborated in my original post about why he should get the converter.
Your point about not everyone can afford to spend $600+ on a converter is a very good one.
My thinking is always to use the best parts, quality and performance wise, no matter what the cost. If I can not afford it, I save until I can. I forget sometimes not everyone thinks, or can afford to think like I do.
[This message has been edited by nickd (edited July 27, 2000).]
07-27-2000, 02:20 PM
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Car: 94 Z28
Engine: LT1 w/ headers, catback, CAI, tune
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.23s
I have similar concerns to P J Moran on this one. I know the Vigilante is a kick *** converter. I'm also pretty sure it would beat a converter like mine (Darrel young 2200-2400, $199) or something similar (like the SLP). I would really like to see a direct comparison though so I can see by exactly how much the Vigilante wins.
More that that, I'm wondering how it compares to say some of the high end Darrel Young or Continetal Units w/ similar specs that run around $400-$500. Perhaps they are very similar yet you can save a $100 or so on them? I don't know, surely someone has run some of these converters back to back w/ a Vigilante or knows of a mag write up doing so?
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Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray
[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited July 27, 2000).]
More that that, I'm wondering how it compares to say some of the high end Darrel Young or Continetal Units w/ similar specs that run around $400-$500. Perhaps they are very similar yet you can save a $100 or so on them? I don't know, surely someone has run some of these converters back to back w/ a Vigilante or knows of a mag write up doing so?
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Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray
[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited July 27, 2000).]
07-29-2000, 01:22 AM
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Car: 94 Z28
Engine: LT1 w/ headers, catback, CAI, tune
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.23s
I'm pulling this back up. I was hoping to get some more input on the above questions. No one have anything to add on this subject?
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Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray
[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited July 28, 2000).]
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Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray
[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited July 28, 2000).]
07-29-2000, 01:44 AM
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I spent $275 on a converter that I got through my tranny shop that rebuilt my tranny. It's not a name brand unit, but it's a heavy duty 12" 2000 stall lockup converter. It works pretty well. It feels as though it's changed the shift points a little, there is less RPM drop between shifts than there used to be. It takes a little more gas to get moving from a stop, not much but a little bit. Otherwise it feels a lot like the stock 1654 RPM stall unit did. If I had had more time to spare (I needed the car back immediately) I would have gone ahead and ordered the 2400 stall Darrell Young unit, but the one I have now works pretty well, no complaints.
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91 Trans Am WS6
5.0 TPI auto
Flowmaster 3" 2 chamber catback
Trans Go shiftkit
2000 stall converter
supposed 'peanut cammed' car (yeah, right)
MoreMoodThatMod
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91 Trans Am WS6
5.0 TPI auto
Flowmaster 3" 2 chamber catback
Trans Go shiftkit
2000 stall converter
supposed 'peanut cammed' car (yeah, right)
MoreMoodThatMod
07-29-2000, 01:56 AM
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I have a question for you guys.
You guys that run these converters with the high stall speeds,what rpm's does your car run while cruising,say around 30 to 40 mph and lower?
And another,how much difference in gas mileage.
I'm thinking about a higher stall converter to run behind my 2.8
Not much higher I might add.
Thanks guys.
------------------
Kevin S
10.9 @ 62.87 (1/8 mile)
89 RS 2.8(bored .030)
B&M shift Improver
B&M Mega Shifter
Perma Cool trans cooler
Accel Wires,
Ignition module,
Super coil
Streetrunner chip(for now)
Flowmaster
1.52 Roller rockers
What is it when a man talks dirty in a womans ear....?
Sexual harrasment!
What is it when a woman talks dirty in a mans ear.....?
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[This message has been edited by Kevin S (edited July 28, 2000).]
You guys that run these converters with the high stall speeds,what rpm's does your car run while cruising,say around 30 to 40 mph and lower?
And another,how much difference in gas mileage.
I'm thinking about a higher stall converter to run behind my 2.8
Not much higher I might add.
Thanks guys.
------------------
Kevin S
10.9 @ 62.87 (1/8 mile)
89 RS 2.8(bored .030)
B&M shift Improver
B&M Mega Shifter
Perma Cool trans cooler
Accel Wires,
Ignition module,
Super coil
Streetrunner chip(for now)
Flowmaster
1.52 Roller rockers
What is it when a man talks dirty in a womans ear....?
Sexual harrasment!
What is it when a woman talks dirty in a mans ear.....?
$3.99 a minute!
[This message has been edited by Kevin S (edited July 28, 2000).]
07-29-2000, 02:52 AM
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Car: 94 Z28
Engine: LT1 w/ headers, catback, CAI, tune
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.23s
If you retain a lockup style converter then your cruising rpm does not change over the stocker. And I haven't really noticed any mileage change since installing the 2200-2400 unit. The main thing I noticed were that w/ my previous converter and the rebuilt tranny (Vette servo, etc) that the 1-2 shift was pretty damn harsh. The higher stall unit impacted that a great bit, it is now like I wanted it (still harder than stock, still firm, but it was way too harsh a shift before IMO).
No downsides from a 2400ish rpm converter that I have noticed so far.
BTW, on the other subject surely someone had a SLP or DY or similar unit and switched to Vigilante, I am really curious for some info on that swap. And does no-one know of a comparison between the Vigilante and the higher performance converters from DY and the like?
BTW MrJ, I wasn't aware that you had done that tranny work, you haven't gotten any updated track times since then have you?
------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray
No downsides from a 2400ish rpm converter that I have noticed so far.
BTW, on the other subject surely someone had a SLP or DY or similar unit and switched to Vigilante, I am really curious for some info on that swap. And does no-one know of a comparison between the Vigilante and the higher performance converters from DY and the like?
BTW MrJ, I wasn't aware that you had done that tranny work, you haven't gotten any updated track times since then have you?
------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray
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