well my engines is due in anytime and before i spend more money i need to know if anyone is running a 383 in CA..or if anyone knows that it will work with smog...anyone?

------------------
89 Firebird
2.8 V6 w/ t5 tranny (383 tpi t56 w/ ati 12/01)
Flowmaster 80 series, 3" Intermediate, SS Tips, Random Tech Cat, Msd Coil, MSD 6a, Accel 8.8 wires, Cold Air Intake w/ K&N, Lakewood LCA's, Brushed aluminum Hood pins ETC...
-------------------------
My Site:
www.geocities.com/firebird89white

" I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to NOT run at all ".

 

Doug Gladd just had his 500+ RWHP 383 w/Vortech smogged in L.A. so I think you can sqeek by they can't look in your engine. just say its a 350.

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6
[soon to be Performace Red =) ]

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

Super GRK_Taz World
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz
ICQ 82881207

 

That depends on how you build it. If you keep it to where externally it appears the same (all the stuff still there) and it passes the sniffer, then it's certified legal.

Technically, any modifictaion whatsoever that doesn't have a CARB or EO # is not legal. So I suppose if you got your 383 short block or rotating assembly or whatever from somebody that had run it through the smog *****, it would be OK. Now just exactly what would be different about one that had been "certified" and one that hadn't, I can't begin to imagine.

The bottom line is, if it passes, it's legal enough to drive.

What induction are you going to put on it? AFAIK the stuff that comes on a V6 won't bolt up, and the only choices that came on a 89 car would be either TBI or TPI. That will have a major impact on whether it will pass, much more so than how many CIs the pistons sweep.

------------------
"So many Mustangs, so little time..."

 

yea tpi with tpis runners and a 58mm tb and thats it til maybe i can afford a mini-ram..but id have to change induction everytime i need to smog it...

------------------
89 Firebird
2.8 V6 w/ t5 tranny (383 tpi t56 w/ ati 12/01)
Flowmaster 80 series, 3" Intermediate, SS Tips, Random Tech Cat, Msd Coil, MSD 6a, Accel 8.8 wires, Cold Air Intake w/ K&N, Lakewood LCA's, Brushed aluminum Hood pins ETC...
-------------------------
My Site:
www.geocities.com/firebird89white

" I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to NOT run at all ".

 

engine boy could answer this ? better than i could, but since he helped me out with my smog ?'s, i suppose i should lend my 2 cents.

first of all, like someone said in another post, it is illegal in california unless it has those carb numbers. so unless that 383 was built from the factory and installed in your car, it will be illegal.

2nd, it is illegal here in this great state to change change the cubic inches in your engine (i.e replacing 305 for 350)

there are alot of ways around this nuisince tho..

i swapped out my 305 for a 350 and got it smogged in the bay area. i just put back all my smog crap, the EFE and all the little sensors and hoses. i replaced my egr valve and made sure that their were no leaks in the exhaust or anything like that. i told the smog tech that the engine was a 305, since that was what type of engine the car came with. it passed and i drive it.

bottom line.. its illegal to do it, but you can get away with it fairly easily.

daniel

 

Your biggest problem will be the fact that you had a V6 and now it will be a V8.

This can be done, you just have to have all the correct smog equipment installed and in working order for your model year (or newer)V8.

Then you need to go to the referee and get a door label that will enable you to smog it anywhere after that. Legally.

The fact that it is a 383 doesn't matter as long as you don't stray away from CARB legal parts (and it still passes the sniffer). I don't care if its a 305, 350, 383, or a 406. As long as the car came with a V8 and it still has a V8 then its all good. Its a "don't tell" policy.

Like I said, you can go through all the proper channels and get it certified legally. I have a customer that has a TPI SBC in a 84 S10 pick up and its all legal. He went to the ref and got the door tag so now anybody can smog it, even though the engine tag shows a 2.8 V6.

This is the ref number, they might be able to answer some questions for you.

1-800-622-7733

I hope I answered your question.

Bill

------------------
ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R

GO #3

[This message has been edited by Engineboy (edited January 01, 2001).]

 

Thats not entirely correct. You can swap a 305 TPI for a 350 TPI and get it recertified with no sweat, because a 350 TPI was offered in a thirdgen f-body. But you cant put a 350 TBI in your car, because no thirdgen f-body came with a 350 TBI, only trucks. You cant put a truck engine in a car either, so thats why Vortec swaps are not smog legal either.

I put a 350 in my car to replace the 305 it came with, but according to the smog guys, its still a 305. If they say anything about my Corvette heads and EGR setup, I can get it certified as a 1991 Corvette with no problems. I just passed smog in November with a 350, ported iron heads, LT1 cam, and SLP 1 5/8" headers. This engine (the iron headed one) will go in my dad's car after we finish my engine (the one with the Corvette heads).

EDIT: Bottom line, call the CA Smog Referee board and ask them if they care what transmission your car has. I've heard rumors that you cant put a 350 in a T5 car because it didnt come from the factory that way. But Engineboy has told me before that the transmission doesnt matter. So, when you go to the smog referees to get your car certified as a V8 TPI, tell them its a 350 TPI. Are you using the 89 MAF and computer, or are you going with speed density? Remember you cant use 85-88 TPI stuff, only 89 and newer.

------------------
1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
13.25 @ 107.18 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Webmaster: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-



[This message has been edited by Kevin91Z (edited January 01, 2001).]

 

"But Engineboy has told me before that the transmission doesnt matter."

Well, the trans/engine combo does matter if your smog person knows that they never came with a 350 T-5 combo.

This is why all the engines we put in T-5 cars are 305s Right?? *wink-wink*

What I can tell you is there are ways to make this swap legal if you go through the right channels and you meet what the state wants:

1) Visual. All smog components must be there and properly hooked up.

2) Functional. All smog components must work properly and the timing must be within spec.

3) Tailpipe.

As a lot of people on this site can tell you, it is possible to have a perf. 3rd gen that will still pass smog.

Good luck.

------------------
ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R

GO #3

[This message has been edited by Engineboy (edited January 01, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Engineboy (edited January 02, 2001).]

 

So putting a Tremec, Richmond, or T56 in a thirdgen is not smog-legal because they didnt come with one? What does your "smog handbook" say about the trans?

 

that brings up a good point kevin...!

------------------
89 Firebird
2.8 V6 w/ t5 tranny (383 tpi t56 w/ ati 12/01)
Flowmaster 80 series, 3" Intermediate, SS Tips, Random Tech Cat, Msd Coil, MSD 6a, Accel 8.8 wires, Cold Air Intake w/ K&N, Lakewood LCA's, Brushed aluminum Hood pins ETC...
-------------------------
My Site:
www.geocities.com/firebird89white

" I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to NOT run at all ".

 

OK, now that we are beating up the smog guy, let me try to clear this up...

The trans isn't the illegal part, the fact that a 350 is in front of it is.

In the perfect world according to CA a 305 came out, a 305 goes back in. This is a general statement, we all know there are a lot of legal options to get what we want.

This is from the book, " The manufacturer, model, engine, transmission, and state where the car was originally sold can all help determine what emmision control devices are used on the vehicle."

On some applications the manual cars are allowed higher specs on the test due to the fact that when driving a manual car, when shifting, you are polluting more.

To answer your question Kevin, no, the trans doesn't matter, only what is in front of it.

------------------
ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R

GO #3

[This message has been edited by Engineboy (edited January 02, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Engineboy (edited January 02, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Engineboy (edited January 02, 2001).]



[This message has been edited by Engineboy (edited January 04, 2001).]

 

Hey wasnt trying to "beat u up" just wanted to make sure i got all my stuff straight before i did this

------------------
89 Firebird
2.8 V6 w/ t5 tranny (383 tpi t56 w/ ati 12/01)
Flowmaster 80 series, 3" Intermediate, SS Tips, Random Tech Cat, Msd Coil, MSD 6a, Accel 8.8 wires, Cold Air Intake w/ K&N, Lakewood LCA's, Brushed aluminum Hood pins ETC...
-------------------------
My Site:
www.geocities.com/firebird89white

" I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to NOT run at all ".

 

We're cool, I like it, it makes me use my melon.

I just hope I'm helping you out here.

You can build up a nice motor and retain all the smog crap and still pass.

You will just have to visit the ref (because of the V6/V8 thing), then its all good.

Let me know if I can help.
------------------
ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R

GO #3

[This message has been edited by Engineboy (edited January 02, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Engineboy (edited January 02, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Engineboy (edited January 02, 2001).]

 

Could I have any more edits??!! LOL

------------------
ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R

GO #3

 

lol was thinking the same thing

------------------
89 Firebird
2.8 V6 w/ t5 tranny (383 tpi t56 w/ ati 12/01)
Flowmaster 80 series, 3" Intermediate, SS Tips, Random Tech Cat, Msd Coil, MSD 6a, Accel 8.8 wires, Cold Air Intake w/ K&N, Lakewood LCA's, Brushed aluminum Hood pins ETC...
-------------------------
My Site:
www.geocities.com/firebird89white

" I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to NOT run at all ".

 

One thing to keep in mind is that the smog laws are usually dependant on the ref.

The ref. can make or break the swap.

The person I know that did the 350TPI S10 swap had to go back and forth from the ref a couple of times to make them happy.

I would call them (# posted above) with any questions you might have since they are the ones that will pass or not pass this one.



------------------
ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R

GO #3

 

yea they can make or break me...(well actually i got verbal approval to do the v8 swap either 305 or 350 as long as its tpi...)so im good to go on it

------------------
89 Firebird
2.8 V6 w/ t5 tranny (383 tpi t56 w/ ati 12/01)
Flowmaster 80 series, 3" Intermediate, SS Tips, Random Tech Cat, Msd Coil, MSD 6a, Accel 8.8 wires, Cold Air Intake w/ K&N, Lakewood LCA's, Brushed aluminum Hood pins ETC...
-------------------------
My Site:
www.geocities.com/firebird89white

" I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to NOT run at all ".

 

Hey engine boy, I hate you for the fact that I want to do the swap too!! Just kidding. Anyway, would you recomend any refs in the LA area? I want to swap my V6 in my Elcamino. But I'm getting the V8 straight from a Third gen anyway, so it should be clean, enough.


------------------
'82 Firebird, dead stock, 9 bolt disc rear, over 200,000 miles and still going strong, more to come...

 

OK, I've had my head deep in my **** all week and I led you down the wrong path. Here is the real deal straight from the Smog Licence manual.

AppendixC:

pg. C1 (revised 10/99)

If you install a "replacement engine" you do not need to go to the referee center.

A "replacement" engine consists of:

1) A new/rebuilt/remanufactured, or used engine of the same make, number of cylinders, and engine family as the original engine with the original emmision controls reinstalled.

OR:

2) An engine that matches a configuration offered by the manufacturer for that year, make, model of that vehicle, and the appropriate emmision controls for the installed engine, and chassis components are present and connected.

An engine change must go to the referee.

A "engine change" is the installation of an engine in an emmision controlled vehicle that is different from the one which was originally installed in the vehicle and does not qualify as a "replacement engine".

So basically you just need to install your V8 with all the smog stuff from that year for a V8 car and take it down to get it smogged. You shouldn't need to go to the ref at all.

Sorry I misled you earlier, its been a hectic week around here

Good luck and let me know if I can help you out any more.



------------------
ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R

GO #3

 

ok would that apply to a t3.8 as well since it was available for me? (1989)

------------------
89 Firebird
2.8 V6 w/ t5 tranny (383 tpi t56 w/ ati 12/01)
Flowmaster 80 series, 3" Intermediate, SS Tips, Random Tech Cat, Msd Coil, MSD 6a, Accel 8.8 wires, Cold Air Intake w/ K&N, Lakewood LCA's, Brushed aluminum Hood pins ETC...
-------------------------
My Site:
www.geocities.com/firebird89white

" I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to NOT run at all ".

 

I'm just gonna take a guess to see if i'm right, but i'd say yes...with the caveat that you will have quite a fun time trying to find all the original TTA emmisions pieces, as well as i don't know what you would do for exhaust. Being such a rare app, i don't know if any headers for it have EO #s, and the fact that they even used FWD heads will add to the complexity if you wanted to bruise some GN headers/manifolds in.
...ed

 

When you're editing your post multiple times, scroll down to the bottom of it, and delete the previous edits. It works great and makes it look like you only edited it once.

So you're saying swapping from TBI to TPI doesnt need a smog referee's approval because TPI was offered in a 92 Camaro?

But putting a 91 Corvette engine in a 91 Camaro does, because I'm modifying my 91 Camaro's emission controls to emulate the Corvette? And I would be ok with a manual trans behind a Corvette L98 350 because they were available? Even if its a T5 or T56?

I hope you dont think we're beating you up. But you're just the person most knowledgeable around here. Thank you for all your advice.

 

As I read it, yes. As long as the car was optioned with a TPI for that engine size.

Once again, yes. The way I understand it, if you modify the emmision controls in any way, it has to be ref'd. This is what it says: "The installed engine and host chassis must retain all of their original emmision equipment."

*I'm blushing* No, I just was in a pissy mood. Thanks for the complement. If I can help you out, just let me know.

Graeme: Yes, the T3.8 should be OK in a TA.

I too learn more and more every day when it comes to this smog crap.


------------------
ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R

GO #3



[This message has been edited by Engineboy (edited January 03, 2001).]

 

My $.02 worth:

You have a 350. You need it overhauled to pass smog. It is overbored .030" and so it is now larger, 355 cu in. It is not the engine that was certified in that car. However, it is OK to have rebuilt engines in your car even though the displacement has been increased. That means that a SBC can be anything from 305 to 420 cu in the way I read what Engineboy posted from the state emissions manual about replacement engines being "from the same family".

This same subject came up with one of the local guys here who had a 383 put in his car. He is a retired sherrif, and he asked one of his buddies, who is a current active duty CHP, if his 383 was legal and the CHP told him yes, based on the "overbore" theory. The CHP are the official smog police in Calif since they are the ones who set up the roadside emissions tests.

------------------
FORMULA 350 TK
Southern California 3rd Generation F-Body Organization©

 

Thats the way I read it.




------------------
ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R

GO #3

 

stingerssx this number should head you in the right direction.

1-800-622-7733

Or go to www.smogcheck.ca.gov

They can put you in touch with who you might need to talk to.

You are in the "enhanced area" so they do a different test there than I do here.

Good luck

Bill

------------------
ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R

GO #3

 

Thank you very much. When I get around to it, I'll "try my hardest" to make sure that I am perfectly legal.

Just to add to what Tom said, as long as it passes the sniffer they should pass it, IMO though.

 

Hey Guys:
I did two swaps -
'81 El Camino 3.8
Installed an F-body 305 TBI

'77 Chevy trk
Istalled a '93 350 w/4L60E TBI
Went to the Irvine Ref.

Both passed with flying colors.

They were real impressed.

Don>>

------------------
Chronologically challenged. But still alive!
92 CAMARO RS
305 TBI 5/spd (now TPI)
'69 camaro
BB/Lenco
1050 dominators
8.97-150+
Pump gas/no drugs

 

WTF roadside Emissions tests ?

What the hell is that ? lol


------------------
60 Ranchero - Project ( Money Hole )
85 Sport Coupe LG4 - Daily Driver

Livin' the Stereotype

 

Yeh, its a stupid program IMO.

They really should only care about tailpipe emmisions, thats all that does any damage, right??

I know of tons of cars that will pass the sniffer but don't have a lick of emmision parts on them.

The state just needs revenue, thats what I think, its all about money and making it look like they are doing their job to make the world a better place. (BS )

------------------
ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R

GO #3

 

You know when they stop everyone for a DUI checkpoint? Imagine a smog checkpoint.
It happens every now and then, especially in greater city areas of CA, such as Los Angeles and San Diego.

------------------
1989 IROC-Z 5.7L

 

been happening everywhere!! i got pulled over 2 times in a little truck on the way to bakersfield (100 miles) the state needs $ obviously

------------------
89 Firebird
2.8 V6 w/ t5 tranny (383 tpi t56 12/01)
Flowmaster 80 series, 3" Intermediate, SS Tips, Random Tech Cat, Msd Coil, MSD 6a, Accel 8.8 wires, Cold Air Intake w/ K&N, Lakewood LCA's, Brushed aluminum Hood pins ETC...
-------------------------
My Site:
www.geocities.com/firebird89white

" I'd rather run last in a full out race, than to NOT run at all ".

 

Dyno Don, you have now become my new best friend!!!! I have an '81 Elco, and want to drop a F-body motor. If you don't mind, may I e-mail you about it?

 

Sure no problem :^)