Ok I have had something very strange happen. I drove 280 miles to visit some friends and the driving was uneventful. On the way back I drove the 280 miles back and stopped at a gas station half a mile from my house. After I filled up the car wouldnt start. I had plenty of voltage and as my key was turned I got a voltage drop, but nothing happened not even a click of the solienoid or engine turn at all. Now I walked home and then back. Maybe a half hour to 45 mins passed and tried it again, this time it started but ran very rough and stalled a few times trying to get it the half mile home. So I parked it and waited 15 more mins. and started it up and everything was fine ran smooth. I drove it a little up and down the driveway and everything was fine. I dont get it ... ran perfect the hole way and back on my trip and then this happens ang goes away. Oh yeah also on the way home it was raining VERY hard. Could water get into something and cause this?? What would it get into that would make these symtoms. I have a Brand new distributer cap and rotor ... only maybe 1000 miles on it if that I also put in a new coil and the module undet the dist. cap all at the same time. The plugs and wires are fairly new and in good condition. Becidses Even if water got into it it should turn over. And if water got into the starter or something and didnt turn over at first ... when it finally did why did it run rough and stall. Im really stumpped on this one Its an 89 firebird with auto tranny. The only thing I can think of it maybe something to do with the computer... since the Key has the Vats chip and the computer controls if it will be allowed to start and and how it runs. Would it be a computer box or computer chip or something to do with the Vats system?? Please help I am afraid to drive this . It runs fine now so that makes it difficult to diagnos and I dont want to get stuck somewhere if it happens again..... Thanks...... Erik

When was last time you had your fuel filter changed? Also what brand and octane of gas do you use?

I changed te fuel filter a few months ago and I use 87 octane which is all thats required for this car and had been used since the car was new in 89 with no problems. Anyways a fuel filter and octane would not keep the car from even turning over... Anyone have any ideas on this?

Ignition switch may have slipped out of adjustment and is now on the hairy edge of making contact. Also could be the P/N safety switch.

Yeah I thought it might be the park neutral switch at the time and I tried moving it hard between park and neutral to get it to work... nothing happened until I didnt do a thing and waited for 1/2 an hour. I dont think its the ignition switch since I got the voltage drop. Its like power was going to the started but it couldnt turn. I asked one of the guys at work. He told me he thinks it could be too much fuel pressure and possibly injector problems.... where too much fuel got into the cyclinders and caused a hydraulic lock so that would explain why I got the voltage drop but the started wouldnt turn over. That also might explain why it started after waiting a half hour and it would run but was running rough... enough fuel evaporated to turn it over but still too much fuel and made it run rough... then ran smooth after it all was out of the combustion chamber... Can this happen? Has it happened to anyone else.... How do you check fuel pressure. If mine is too high whats that mean .... I gotta change the pressure regulator? Thanks for the help!!

Ok guys I just was reseaching about another problem I have had that started only 1 day before this problem happened. I think my A/c is chatterering. It seems to be coming from the comrpessor and happens only when the A/C is on. After reading some of the posts that I cut and pasted below could this be related to the no start and stall. Could the TCC being locked up cause this car to not turn over.... then run rough.... then run ok? Read the posts below and tell me what you think. Thanks for taking the time to do this I really appricate it.... Erik


alright my 305 tbi will not idle right. Everytime i come to a stop in gear it dies after fluctuating from 500 to 800 rpms once or twice. I have some kind of chattering sound comming from my serpentine, it sounds like how the A/c compressor did when it died but i unplugged power from it then. Would the a/c or alternator maybe even be able to strain my motor enough to make it stall if the bearings were bad? So far i have replaced the plugs,wires,coil,cap,rotor and played witht he timing. It seems to have full power at any other rpm and idles fine if i bring the rpms up to about a 1000 while holding the brake. What do you guys think it could be?

Is your car an automatic if so will it idle in park ? becuse it sounds like the converter is not unlocking when you come to a stop

so far it has only died twice in park or neutral and thats driving it for a few days

Cleaned the PCV valve, throttle body, and IAC lately?

And in a different post.....



Ok - thats got me interested Makes me wish i knew more about the 700r4.

Question though - how would pin B being grounded let the ECM know it's in 4th? Doesn't the TCC lockup in other gears as well?

Based on the diagram's logic and your comment, i'd think the ECM is not checking to see when the TCC is to be LOCKED, rather it's checking to see when it should be UNLOCKED. Basically, that changes my outlook on the ECM's side of the picture. The TCC is normally locked unless the ECM tells it not to be.

That makes a lot more sense.

That would explain all the threshholds set for TPS, vehicle speed (the only exception in this case would be the speed-controlled lock/unlock settings), but things like A/C clutch will lock it, TPS above/below a threshold, engine overheat even.

Sorry Boxeat2469 - i wanted to help you out when nobody else answered, but that last post got me thinking of the control-side of the logic. Im thinking the 700r4 is normally "energized" until it's told to "de-energize". In that case, the pinouts make perfect sense. A is power or other optional conditions (maybe hard logic...such as A/C clutch on/off? Or some other manual intervention), B is control signalling (telling the TCC that it should unlock now because you just sent the TPS to 80% for example), and D is strictly for vaccum or 4th gear...but still B has the ability to bypass it. Maybe VSS controlled? To prevent chattering, it includes the 4th gear switch in addition to the vaccum for non ECM cars?

Where's the 700r4 experts? Im curious.