Tech / General Engine Is your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: CARiD

rebuilding for Dummys

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Dec 22, 2004 | 08:24 AM
  #1  
Bill Speed's Avatar
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,330
Likes: 0
From: MN
Car: 1989 Formy droptop/88 Deville
Engine: L98 350 TPI
Transmission: factory RWD, WS6 susp
rebuilding for Dummys

While cleaning up my apartment I came across a mid 1980s book on hot rod engines, detailing all the technical aspects of building up a non-stock motor. It covered alot on carbs and precious little on fuel injection which is why I'm wondering on advice for a complete novice on rebuilding a, well, L98 1989 350 tuned port, as an example.

It's easy to just see an engine buildup you like and follow that recipe but choosing a different route, How do you formulate the variables based on the car's retained aspects that you wish to maintain or achieve?
The book points out mainly the three aspects of low end torque, good economy, a mild stock improvement I imagine, high RPM wide throttle geared performance or somewhere inbetween a comfortable compromise of both... I feel I'd be left of center as I'd consider headers over exhaust manifold, new improved aftermarket MAF sensors as in one story I recently checked out in the press, and perhaps changing the intake feed from stock. Improvements to the throttle intake of the Tuned Ports are fairly popular.
Basically, How do you start from scratch in this regard? Also keeping the ideas in a 'money is definately an object' bracket

Bill
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2004 | 08:44 AM
  #2  
blacksheep-1's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 801
Likes: 1
From: st. Petersburg, Fla
Car: 83 Z28
Engine: vortec 305 for now
Transmission: 5 speed
Generally..
The biggest improvement for the lowest $$ you can make to increase your car's acceleration would be changing the rear end gear ratio. (keep in mind this would effect your car's computer imputs so it might be less cost effective after you figured out how to change those).
The biggest improvement for the lowest $$ you can make to increase your car's horsepower is a decent set of headers.
The biggest improvement for the lowest $$ you can make to improve a car's handling is sway bars. (Actually tires, but you can burn them up in 2 months and I was thinking of something a little more permanent).

Last edited by blacksheep-1; Dec 22, 2004 at 08:49 AM.
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2004 | 08:53 AM
  #3  
Bill Speed's Avatar
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,330
Likes: 0
From: MN
Car: 1989 Formy droptop/88 Deville
Engine: L98 350 TPI
Transmission: factory RWD, WS6 susp
Immediate plan is repair engine w/i economical means and possibly set aside for a new longblock at the price suggested. The book details picking cams and the associated internal hardware carefully to mate to all other mechanicals it relates to, this is where I start wondering how you come up with a laundry list that works well together and hopefully not contradict

The book also points out that many bolt on options would do well to be augmented by taking the extra effort to match to components within the engine, again, that can be costly, but I'm also ust curious when I see a list of mods on boards like this how one arrives at what they chose
BILL
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2004 | 09:37 AM
  #4  
blacksheep-1's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 801
Likes: 1
From: st. Petersburg, Fla
Car: 83 Z28
Engine: vortec 305 for now
Transmission: 5 speed
My suggestiom would be to get the car up and running at it's optimum as the factory built it. At that point you can go changing things. Now, if say the stock 305 has a hole through the block, then now would be a good time to find a 350. The problem I see with most projects are threefold:
1. Guys read something in a magazine and then do it. Remember the part those guys are using are also advertisers in the mag. IMO you get better info from some of the guys on this page (some, not all).
2. They end up with a bunch of parts that don't work well together, mileage is horrible, the car runs crappy, the person gets tired of working on it and sells it for 1/4 of what they have in it.
3. Guys overestimate the horsepower and underestimate the cost of the part(s). Have a specific plan of where you want your car to be in a year, When in doubt, go conservative and figure your budget plus 20%.
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2004 | 09:37 AM
  #5  
mystikkal_69's Avatar
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,823
Likes: 1
From: San Antonio, TX
Car: 1988 IROC-Z
Engine: L98 (350 TPI)
Transmission: MD8 (700 R4) + 3.42 LS1 Rear
as mentioned the car has to running as good as stock can be.

sencondly, advancing the timing a few degrees helps out also.

heads, cam, and intake have to matched. exhaust would have to the first thing on a performance list. secondly the intake is terribly restictive on these cars. that will have to replaced with something better. ie stealthram, miniram, supperam, etc... prom tuning also yeilds some good results.

Last edited by mystikkal_69; Dec 22, 2004 at 09:40 AM.
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2004 | 12:53 PM
  #6  
kevinc's Avatar
Supreme Member
 
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,963
Likes: 3
Car: 1982 Z28
Engine: LS1
Transmission: T56
Originally posted by Bill Speed
Immediate plan is repair engine w/i economical means and possibly set aside for a new longblock at the price suggested.
One idea would be to cut a trapdoor in your hood, so you wouldn't have to unbolt and remove it for engine swaps.

(just having more fun w/ the fuel pump swap thread)
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2004 | 01:15 PM
  #7  
mystikkal_69's Avatar
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,823
Likes: 1
From: San Antonio, TX
Car: 1988 IROC-Z
Engine: L98 (350 TPI)
Transmission: MD8 (700 R4) + 3.42 LS1 Rear
Originally posted by kevinc
One idea would be to cut a trapdoor in your hood, so you wouldn't have to unbolt and remove it for engine swaps.

(just having more fun w/ the fuel pump swap thread)
haha
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2004 | 03:23 PM
  #8  
ljnowell's Avatar
Supreme Member
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,935
Likes: 0
Originally posted by kevinc
One idea would be to cut a trapdoor in your hood, so you wouldn't have to unbolt and remove it for engine swaps.

(just having more fun w/ the fuel pump swap thread)
While you are at it, cut a hole in the firewall for the heater core and the fenderwells for spark plug changes. Then afte that you may want to cut a hole in the floor for your u joints!
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2004 | 04:42 PM
  #9  
azvolfan's Avatar
Supreme Member
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 0
From: Avondale, AZ
Car: currently thirdgenless!!!
In my experience that trap door is a place to deposit money. Something I have noticed on my 305 build up.

Seriously though, it sounds like you want to build up your 350 TPI. Heads, cam, intake and full exhaust with lots of chip work will yield great results with the key being the chip tuning.

I have put together some great parts on my 305. TPI heads with a light port and polish and some exhaust bowl blending, '87 L98 cam, Edelbrock Performer TBI intake, Comp Cams 1.6 rockers, Hooker Super comp headers, 3" cat, Borla catback and some chip tuning. Even with all of those parts it is only putting out 226 hp at the crank. So for all of my troubles I picked up 56 hp. And it would not be that good if not for the chip tuning. There is more power in there and it will need more tuning to get it.

The moral of the story: With EFI be prepared for the tuning part to unlock the power.
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2004 | 06:39 PM
  #10  
bru333's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 575
Likes: 1
From: Smithfield, NC
Car: 1987 Camaro SC
Engine: 2.8L MPFI (rebuilt)
Transmission: 700R4 swapped to T5
Axle/Gears: 3.42 open
I think you have all missed the point of his post. I want to know too. How do you decide what engine parts will work well together to get the results you are looking for?

Originally posted by Bill Speed
Immediate plan is repair engine w/i economical means and possibly set aside for a new longblock at the price suggested. The book details picking cams and the associated internal hardware carefully to mate to all other mechanicals it relates to, this is where I start wondering how you come up with a laundry list that works well together and hopefully not contradict

The book also points out that many bolt on options would do well to be augmented by taking the extra effort to match to components within the engine, again, that can be costly, but I'm also ust curious when I see a list of mods on boards like this how one arrives at what they chose
BILL
Originally posted by mystikkal_69
heads, cam, and intake have to match
Yeah. But how do you decide if they match? I have no problem fixing an engine so it will run right. But, I have no idea how to pick parts to build one.
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2004 | 06:58 PM
  #11  
mystikkal_69's Avatar
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,823
Likes: 1
From: San Antonio, TX
Car: 1988 IROC-Z
Engine: L98 (350 TPI)
Transmission: MD8 (700 R4) + 3.42 LS1 Rear
Originally posted by bru333
I think you have all missed the point of his post. I want to know too. How do you decide what engine parts will work well together to get the results you are looking for?


Yeah. But how do you decide if they match? I have no problem fixing an engine so it will run right. But, I have no idea how to pick parts to build one.

first you must define YOUR goals for the engine. ie horsepower, primary intended use, and work within your budget.\


different people have different goals. one may want to build a 9 sec combo while someone else would like to build a slightly better than stock engine with better parts. there are too many variables in engine building.

Last edited by mystikkal_69; Dec 22, 2004 at 07:01 PM.
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2004 | 07:29 PM
  #12  
sellmanb's Avatar
Supreme Member
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 1
From: Tigard, Oregon
Car: '86 Berlinetta
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700R4
typically to match parts, you will need to find an intake's powerband (i.e. 2k-6k), a cam's powerband (i.e.2500-6500), and heads that have enough flow to hold you up to the maximum RPM you want to go.

If you mismatch parts then you will end up with a small RPM band.

For example -- If you get a cam that has a power band between 1500-6000, a intake that has a power band between 3500-8000, and heads that flow up to 6500... then you only have an engine with a powerband between 3500-6000. Now wouldnt that suck?

edit: forgot to mention that from the beginning of the power band that you want, is where you will want to figure out what stall converter you want (if you want an auto), and rear gearing for maximum output.

What your intended useage is for the car (daily driver, weekend warrior, street/strip, full on drag, street/auto-x, purely auto-x, etc)... should determine how you build your engine.

Last edited by sellmanb; Dec 22, 2004 at 07:32 PM.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
HoosierinWA
Tech / General Engine
5
Oct 7, 2015 10:15 AM
sleprock
Interior Parts Wanted
2
Oct 3, 2015 11:01 PM
hartsmike
Engine Swap
11
Oct 2, 2015 07:11 AM
Derrick86
Transmissions and Drivetrain
7
Oct 1, 2015 05:12 AM
Aaronv808
Members Firebirds
9
Sep 30, 2015 12:55 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:35 AM.