why are all these third gen's so slow
#52
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Car: '89 Trans AM/'88 GTA
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Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
i guess the thing that set me answer this question the most was that i am ed of hearing people talk about fact. gm heads. 081 601 781, dang.... none of them flow enough to drink out of, lol... but serious though... get on ebay and but some old darts or brodix or world ported heads, get into the 270-300 intake range, make some real power... don't be afraid, single planes don't bite, lol
if i remember correctly, a brand new set of vict. jr's can be had for alittle over 1000 dollars prob 700 used!!??
know what i am saying !!?"???
if i remember correctly, a brand new set of vict. jr's can be had for alittle over 1000 dollars prob 700 used!!??
know what i am saying !!?"???
opted to run a set of 081 casting heads on my build.
The majority of us dont have the spare coin to go
ahead a float $300-400 on a set of Brodix or AFR's.
If I had the money before I built my fresh 350,
you know I would have a great set of aftermarket
heads.. but, I had a set of 081's begging to be used.
To be honest, good streetable power can be extracted
from 081, 416 or 083 casting heads. Not to say they will
net you 12 second ET's, but..
I do get your point, But like anything in motorsports,
trial & error is an effective way to figure things out on
your own.
especially if your novice.
Nice topic
#53
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Car: 86 iroc
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Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
mustangs are ugly,surely that red mustang/capri with the 1970 wheels is.Just when I thought it couldnt be worse I saw the inside of one of these boxes with wheels and the inside is even more ugly then the outside.So what most of you have is a ugly car that is faster then mine.Okay I will give you that.If you were a chevy person I assume you would own a vega with a big block and no paint.So just so we are clear,youre car is ugly but faster then my camaro.There is nothing you can do to make your car look better,mine looks good right from the factory.So keep making it faster maybe you will get so fast with so little money it wont be street legal anymore then we all wont have to look at on the road,because why?all together now...ITS UGLY.
#54
Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
Hey if its ok I would like to direct this knowledge in a more positive direction.I am goin to start apost on converting a smog 350 into the most HP I can get for the parts I own. So look for 350Vortec TPI post and help me out.
Sorry for that short intermission you may now return to your regular program
Footjoy
Sorry for that short intermission you may now return to your regular program
Footjoy
#55
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Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
There is nothing you can do to make your car look better,mine looks good right from the factory.So keep making it faster maybe you will get so fast with so little money it wont be street legal anymore then we all wont have to look at on the road,because why?all together now...ITS UGLY.
Now a buddy of mine, thinks Camaro's are beautiful, and firebirds are ugly. I have another friend with a supercharged cobra (that I built), that he thinks is prettier and faster than almost anyone on this board, and it's OBD-II and passes emissions, street legal, etc.
It's all a matter of opinion. Arguing over it is just plain silly. The original posters question was, why do people sink so much money into a car to run slow.
-- Joe
#56
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Car: 1989 IROC-Z
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Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
All I can say, is it is a passion. I sold a 2002 SS Camaro that was sick fast with just bolt ons. I then bought the 89 IROC. I had an 88 IROC when I was younger and that car just always stuck with me. Yes, I have to admit that I was disappointed jumping from the LS1 car back to the TPI car. But.....I consider it a challenge and I think it will be alot of fun. Plus, I have a 12 year old son who is going to learn alot from this, as well as allow us some quality time together.
To each his own, I like em' all. I have friends who love Fords, Mopars, even imports. I like to work and play with any of them.
Hell, that's what this hobby is all about.
Good luck to you and keep on sharing your experiences!!
To each his own, I like em' all. I have friends who love Fords, Mopars, even imports. I like to work and play with any of them.
Hell, that's what this hobby is all about.
Good luck to you and keep on sharing your experiences!!
#57
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Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
HP isn't everything...Just ask the Mustang owners that try following a 3rd gen, in handling. Hands down, the 3rd gens win!
I have a die0hard Mustang friend, but he runs a 3rd gen in autocross. Why a 3rd gen, when he is a die-hard Mustang fan? He wants to win, and that isn't going to happen with a Mustang, when handling is involved.
I have a die0hard Mustang friend, but he runs a 3rd gen in autocross. Why a 3rd gen, when he is a die-hard Mustang fan? He wants to win, and that isn't going to happen with a Mustang, when handling is involved.
#58
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Car: 86 iroc
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Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
my point exactly.We drive and put money into our cars because we like them.The way they look,feel and drive.He comes here to ask why?Did someone here go to the mustang page and ask them why they put money into a car that is so ugly just to go fast?If so that would be dumb also.How about he comes back when he owns or wants a camaro or firebird,until then what a wasts of time.
#63
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Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
haha, ok, I meant the motor. Cam? Intake? CR? I think it'd have to be completely wild to the point of wanting to re-ask yourself if 416 heads are worth reworking? Unless you're trying to prove a point?
I'd like to see your final flow results of the heads if you were going to flow test them. I never got around to flow testing my 416's because my machinist wouldn't stop laughing at me...
I'd like to see your final flow results of the heads if you were going to flow test them. I never got around to flow testing my 416's because my machinist wouldn't stop laughing at me...
#65
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Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
haha, ok, I meant the motor. Cam? Intake? CR? I think it'd have to be completely wild to the point of wanting to re-ask yourself if 416 heads are worth reworking? Unless you're trying to prove a point?
I'd like to see your final flow results of the heads if you were going to flow test them. I never got around to flow testing my 416's because my machinist wouldn't stop laughing at me...
I'd like to see your final flow results of the heads if you were going to flow test them. I never got around to flow testing my 416's because my machinist wouldn't stop laughing at me...
#66
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Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
And a set of Vortecs can be had for a very decent price. Flow tests have shown that they can hold their own against the aluminums after port jobs and so on. Downside is the fact that they are cast iron and heavier.
With aluminum heads, you really notice the damn near 100lbs shaven off the front of the car. Before my swap, my car had a slight aggressive stance, front a little lower than the back. Now, with the aluminum heads, the stance is dead even ...looks like its time to get new front suspension
#67
Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
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Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
speaking of handling, those ford mn12's (89-98 thunderbird/cougar) are a good handling car, considering their weight, as they come in over 4000 lbs, but they surely are not fast by any means, i love driving my 93 tibird, and i got it for $75 bucks, and its even a 5.0 car
Last edited by jonmark1985; 05-11-2007 at 04:28 PM.
#70
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Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
in case many of you didn't notice he rephrased the question as many of you didn't seem to get it. from the looks of it even after he rephrased you guys still aren't getting it and in typical style just start the flaming
#71
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Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
As much as I dislike mustangs, i've said this on this forum before:
-mustangs had the 8.8" factory. Better rear gears.
-They had factory "headers". Not as good as aftermarket, but better than manifolds.
-The 302 is better than the 305. Bigger bore. The 350 beats it though
Unfortunately they have a slight advantage from the get go.
-mustangs had the 8.8" factory. Better rear gears.
-They had factory "headers". Not as good as aftermarket, but better than manifolds.
-The 302 is better than the 305. Bigger bore. The 350 beats it though
Unfortunately they have a slight advantage from the get go.
The 305 isn’t the dog that most make it out to be, hell, most years a comparable 305 was only 5-15hp down (20 for a couple of years) from the 350… that’s not bad for loosing 50cid, and it was always very close to the 5.0. Of course, the peanut camed 305’s, L03’s and LG4’s were never intended to be the hot performers of the line, compare them to the assorted 4’s and 6’s (V and inline) that the mustang got and then the thing makes sense. They even get similar mileage and came with similar options.
The 8.8… well, that’s an advantage, but lets face it, as many of us out there that regularly break 7.5’s there are more of you that somehow manage not to, and hell, even those of us adept at breaking them still usually get a season or 2 of passes out of them before tosting them. OTOH, on the street I’d be very surprised if the percentage broken wasn’t about the same.
If you want to do this, then compare apples to apples, the HO 305/5 speed cars are comparable to the average GT, and the 350 cars are comparable to a 5.0 LX… All of which, on both sides of the fence were available with crappy and good gears from the factory. If you want to point out how slow your 2.73 or 2.77 geared TPI car was then compare it to 2.73 equipped GT…
yea missoula, some guys with 3rd gens (and mustangs), drop their money into non go fast goodies. Neons, snake oil performance addons, SS mufflers, stereos and exhaust tips, etc etc. That's why they can say "yea I spent $8000 and go 14.1s in the quater. 18" chrome wheels don't get ya down the ol' 1320 any faster eh?
Work at a speed shop that does a lot of mustangs for a while and you’ll change your mind quickly once you get used to seeing throngs of high 14-16second mustang guys come in, a lot of which have no better luck with going fast then a lot of the people around here that complain about not being able to get out of the 14’s… Yes, there is a lot more media showing us fast(ish) mustangs, and the mustang aftermarket is much more well developed (a completely different issue), so there is almost a formula, get X+Y+Z and you’ll run ____.
There is one difference though. Once you get past the basic bolt ons the mustang guys tent to take the next step and even more advanced steps much easier then f-body guys because the EECIV ecm is more flexable and more willing to adapt to the changes then the assorted f-body ecm’s. It’s just a fact of life there. Put anything more than a stock cam in an f-body and you need to get a custom chip made. Same deal with a your basic blower package. That is not the case with a mustang, the ECM figures it out _well enough_ that you can make power and still have something driveable. Hell, f-body ECM’s are lost when you start getting into mods that require larger injectors, where on a mustang you just buy a matching MAF and again, you have something driveable, that runs good enough…
why no supercharged, turbo, nitrous 700rwhp cars here... or very few...
i have just came across a 1986 IROC with 305 Q-jet and was looking at switching my hobby to camaro for awhile
i have just came across a 1986 IROC with 305 Q-jet and was looking at switching my hobby to camaro for awhile
I have no clue what 781’s are, and the ‘018’s are junk, but grab a set of 416’s, 601’s, or one of a dozen other stock heads that can be had cheap and you’re starting with heads that flow 200-210cfm stock, a set of stock vortecs will flow 220-225cfm stock. Just slapping any one of these, with a reasonably matched cam, decent exhaust, gears, converter… (like I’m sure you did on your car) and you’ll destroy that mustang. Do some mild porting and really go to town.
You’re just not comparing apples to apples… essentially, they start pretty much even… the f-bodies start carrying a little extra weight compared to the mustangs, but have better power potential from the engines and handle much better.
Just because the percent of people doing it here is different then say at the corral, doesn’t mean that it’s any more possible or likely on either end, there are other 3rd gen guys around, just as there are a lot of show and shine or just plain beater mustangs around
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So, are we talking trailer queens, or drive-to-the-track?
Let's see, was it 3 years ago? I think so. "Club Clash" race, the "fun run" series with various "F" and "M" brand clubs duking it out with the good-guy Bowties. Got paired up with a late fox-body that dialed about 2 seconds quicker than I (this is the '57 I'm in, understand). I hit the brakes about 100' from the finish line because the guy was still back behind the 1000' mark. As I walked through the pits to the grandstands afterwards to watch my buds race, I saw my last victim sitting in the passenger seat with a laptop and a frown. "What happened?" I ask. Said something about the tune not being right or something to that effect. Okay, whatever you say. Maybe you should try running with the fan belt and keep your voltage up. Whatever.
Next?
Let's see, was it 3 years ago? I think so. "Club Clash" race, the "fun run" series with various "F" and "M" brand clubs duking it out with the good-guy Bowties. Got paired up with a late fox-body that dialed about 2 seconds quicker than I (this is the '57 I'm in, understand). I hit the brakes about 100' from the finish line because the guy was still back behind the 1000' mark. As I walked through the pits to the grandstands afterwards to watch my buds race, I saw my last victim sitting in the passenger seat with a laptop and a frown. "What happened?" I ask. Said something about the tune not being right or something to that effect. Okay, whatever you say. Maybe you should try running with the fan belt and keep your voltage up. Whatever.
Next?
#74
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Car: 1982 Trans-Am
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Re: why are all these third gen's so slow
yea missoula, some guys with 3rd gens (and mustangs), drop their money into non go fast goodies. Neons, snake oil performance addons, SS mufflers, stereos and exhaust tips, etc etc. That's why they can say "yea I spent $8000 and go 14.1s in the quater. 18" chrome wheels don't get ya down the ol' 1320 any faster eh?
Yep, every mustang is faster then every f-body
Yep, every mustang is faster then every f-body
Anyway, I think we've all gotten the point across eh?
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