If you rebuild your current 305, that's more downtime than if you had another shortblock ready to go. I figured it was worth the little price of a rebuildable core 350 even just for that reason.

 

That's what I like about this place, every one else is smarter than you and every one else knows more than any one else. Every one else has all the answers and they are never wrong and nothing they say is ever up for discussion. If they don't like something they attack you personally to change the subject. There are never any facts, just hyperbole and a lot of blah blah blah. It must be great being you. And thanks for setting me straight. I didn't realize how far I had my head up a.s.s. all these years. I didn't realize how ill-informed I was and how ignorant I am to the automotive world. It can only be called a miracle that I came to this site and found you to set me on the correct path in life. Without you it was only a matter of time before I was sucked into my carb and never seen again. Wow, what a close one. I think it is important for every one else at this board to know how important b1k1w1 is to all of us since he knows all of the answers and without him we are all doomed to hell. We all here should give him thanks for making our lives better. We bow down to you for your vast knowledge and wisdom you share with us each and every day here at thirdgen.org. Thank you. I now can live in peace and harmony with the world.

Now back to the original topic. The OP asked...

"Just wondering, why do people install or build a 305 when the number of 350 blocks are in the bazillions??? (yes its my new number) There is no economical reason for it and damn sure no performance reason... just wondering, always kinda stumped me lol "

Because people think a 305 car is going to be worth more at Barrett Jackson, or it has some collectable value, or it maintains some history when in stubbornness they think they can get out of a 305 what a 350 or more can deliver when in reality it can't and it doesn't. Why spend all that cash on a 305 trying to get hp out of it when for a few bucks more a 350 can do a lot more very easily. The biggest mistake for some of the 305 diehards is all the fun they are missing out on with gobs of hp under the hood. That's why.

Any one else want to answer the OP's original q?

 

your welcome, some people just never learn no matter how much prof they have. So I'm glad to see you opened your eyes and realized that some people just like to do the basics and enjoy there sunday drive. And don't worry you won't go to hell for being the guy who's all talk. Just let it go!! every one wants to talk about 305s so let them. I told you if you want prof go to the track. Or just look up 9s 305. Its not all about power. Its just fun. O and if there are so many 350s why a zz3 and in some places they are hard to find or way over priced so there's your answer

 

Because we can.

 

hay at least you have a cool car

 

well unless you race you dont need that much horsepower, my car only has what 195 with the l69? i dont care, i did 140mph on the interstate on my way home tonight because it was warm and the road was empty, and to be honest thats good enough for me, so it'll do the 1/4 in 15 seconds so what i dont drag race everywhere i go so thats irrelevant information to me and i think drag racing is boring anyway i'm fine with my 305 and theres no reason i'll ever swap it

 

Thank You.

 

i'm gonna do a t70 an a cam an see what i can get outta her .lol

 

exactly

not everyone needs a high performance vehicle ( do not call me a hypocrite because i also have a 4th gen and a stang for performance)

you can only go so fast without breaking the law. Unless the car is for racing, I'd rather it have a nice interior and exterior vs crappy seat covers, stinky rug but with a honkin engine. 70 mph is 70 mph regardless of what is under the hood

buttttttttttt, driving around inside a pigpen vs a vehicle in decent condition is night and day

 

You Mean Like This.

 

It's not attaining 70-mph, it's how long it takes you to get there (rate of acceleration), and my 305 will reach 70-mph faster than most 350's on this website...

 

I don't know if it's you or your folks home but, if it ever comes up in discussion, ask the neighbors why they didn't side match the 3 season porch or at least paint it a close color. Decks are OK as wood color but not covered porches

 

That's my neighbors,I think it's that new kind of wood like deck material that you don't paint.It does look good in person.

 

Why a 305? Because its already in the car! When it blows, then it will be time for something bigger. Until then, its pretty damn dependable for a 21 year old engine with millions of miles. Sounds great too.

 

i dont think anyone has mentioned the awesome 305 sound yet, another good point

 

Not sure where you get your facts but I was pretty sure GM has an outsourced plant in mexico that still produces generation 1 engine blocks for the aftermarket and hot rod builders.

 

i thought it was kinda funny that you can order brand new crate motors but that they werent being produced anymore , wasnt sure if i'd look stupid or not saying anything though

 

I have a 305 TPI, I like it but I will never "build" it. I have installed bolt-ons on mine, but only stuff that I would be able to later transfer to a 350. I think that if you want more power out of your 305 than supercharge it and kill all the stockish L98.

 

I agree that you can build a 383 for close to the same money as as a 350. But lets see how much money you spend on a 350 to get to 450HP and how much you spend on that same 383. In the end you'll have more torque with the 383.

The one thing I do have to stress and maybe it already shows a bit but I am not able to build my own engine.. I have neither the tools or the knowledge so I have to go with the use of engine builders. Heck I had one local shop try to sell me a 383 short block for $2500 plus I had to turn in a 350 block to them. so in local economy and pricing.... I'm looking at 8 grand to build 450HP 383 I can save money by cutting here and there but its not much.. specially when you're trying to build an engine for a (local) show car.

I can get a 400HP 350 that works extremely well for around 4 grand.... That changed my mind on a 383 very quickly. Although I may still buy a few pieces here and there and build the engine over time and do research as I go but as it stands I can spend 4 grand a lot easier than 8 grand and have my car ready to go for spring car shows.


Unless someone here will build me a 383 for around 4 grand....... and still push 450HP

 

lol.... let me rephrase that.... I have lots of tools lol but not the kind you need to be building engines haha!!! I enjoy tinkering and had a blast tearing my 305 HO apart and learned a lot while doing it.

 

i just started using this forum today and as i was reading down these comments, i was beginning to second guess myself on my 305 rebuild project. i have read up on this motor and have read great things about. and it make no sense to me that...why can Ford pack power into their scrawny 4.6L V8's and boss 302's(which is slightly smaller than a 305) and I CANT DO IT TO MY 305? NO, i know i can do it. and u seem like u can help...cant remember the dudes name who i am replying to but thanks for your confidence boost, if you read this hit me up with some tips n hints

 

You obviously didn't read my post past the first line:

 

Not all 305s were born the same,If you have the LB9 check your tach.If your tach starts orange at 5000 and red lines at 5500 you have the hotter cam.

 

no i simply did not.

 

Then who are you to tell me I'm wrong?

 

The problem is not the cu size of the 305, it is the bore.

The 302 engine has the same bore than a 350 engine (4.00 in bore), so this is why it is a good engine.

 

As mentioned the bore makes a difference.

The other thing is most of those 4.6L engines are pretty slow. Not all of them, but a lot of them.

The problem with the 305 is they took a small bore block and stroked it. So you have a narrow bore with a long stroke to begin with. It doesnt promote good flow through the valves compared to a 350. There's less room in the chamber and the valves are smaller to boot.

Now you CAN make a 305 plenty fast. It's been done and it's been done several times. But the problem is the 305 is more expensive to go fast in than a 350.

 

Why a 305? Why a 350? Why a 383? Why any sbc when the LSX is available that will make more hp and get much better mileage. More tuning support for those platforms as well. Its the new edge tech.... But then there are BBC's up over 600". Why not run one of those and make even more power?


See where this is going? Its up to the owner to do what they want to do. Theres always a better motor out there but like others have said, you need to define "better". You may say 350 has better performance potential than a 305 when investing the same money. Thats likely true since the 4" bore allows for larger valve. Larger valve is more flow = more hp/tq. But then again, a 383 can be made for not much more. Its a much better bang for the buck. Alittle bit more hp when using same parts but the big difference is the TQ output which on a street/strip car not optimized for drag racing, this makes a big difference.

Then again not everyone drag races. Some autox and some daily drive. 305 can compete with anything at an autox track.... i've seen stock 180 hp mini coopers take down 500hp z06's on tight tracks. Power is meaningless in that department.

Daily drive, 305 is reliable and does well. Just like the 350. My L98 was used as a driver all its life just about. I raced the **** out of it at 160K miles and it ran as good as it did from the factory. 305 can easily match that reliability and streetability.


Now there are a few things i dont understand and will not argue.... why people buy these 'performance' cars and dont race them or dont drive them hard on the street. Why do they care about numbers matching? These are not suppose to be investments, they are performance machines. Why people build 350's when 383's are not much more and will make a huge difference in the torque department. This helps get you down the track and off the line. 355 makes same power but it wil come in at a higher rpm, so you need more gear/more stall if an auto and that all makes it just abit less streetable

Like I said, its different strokes for different folks Enjoy whatever you build for the application you use it for.

Why would I build a 305? Just because of threads like this and that fact i already have a 9 second (soon to be 8 sec hopefully) 401" car and a 99 LS1 car. I like being different. Oh and I will build a 305, hopefully start on it this year Its gonna be interesting

 

I just keep my 305 original I would never change it with such low miles.
and she is plenty quick compared to the autos.

 

There is essentially no problem with the 305. The problem has to do more with members building the 305 off of the more common 350 builds, when they are two entirely different engines. Not to mention, building their 305's in a heavy vehicle and expecting it to outperform their 350 counterpart. The bore and stroke of the 305 is not a restriction. I'm running a 1.84" intake valve with ported heads, and my engine flows way more air than my fueling can keep up with. Yes, it's boosted, but that is besides the point as the air is still getting in there, regardless. Any engine that has more cubic inches will always have the potential to make more power, but the idea is to balance everything. If your going to run a 305 naturally aspirated, then focus on your gearing in the trans/rear as well as the vehicle's weight. If your going to boost it like I did, well then all bets are off...

 

parts for these motors are not cheap. after market intake mani for an LS1 on summit or jegs is like 500-1200 bucks. for a 305-383 its about 250-400 bucks. hmmmm

 

if I ever go forced induction, I'm going to do it with a junkyard 305 first. No sense in blowing up a 350 due to inexperience, but I dont mind toasting a bunch of 305 pullouts, especially when they'll be way faster than any NA 350 or 383 with the hair dryers on the front... (or superchargers if that's your thing...)

Regardless, the problem with making big power from a 305 NA is that you can do it cheap and throw a big flat tappet cam in it and port the intakes/go carbs whatever and make those things scream... But you VERY quickly run into an RPM wall with the factory rod bolts. And I maintain there is NO good reason to go into the bottom end of a 305 beyond mere novelty and desire to get less for your money. When you're digging into the bottom end it's way more cost effective to find a 350 core somewhere. With forced induction you dont need to spin a 305 to 7k to make horsepower, but you do NA.

If you're willing to spend the same money on less cubes (sometimes more money) to get less horsepower when you're BUILDING a new engine, that's fine. But if you see the 305 for what it is you're not gonna touch the bottom end. So that limits your camshaft choices dramatically due to acceptable RPM's on factory bottom end parts.

And I dont buy the "why not build a 383? Why not build a 454? Why not build a 572?" argument at all. The 350 is the simplest, cheapest smallblock to build. Period. No worrying about small base circle cams. You dont have to grind oil pan rails. Parts are EVERYWHERE for it. Pistons are cheap, decent factory 64cc heads are everywhere.

You start building a 383 and your crank costs a little more money, your rods cost a little more money, you gotta grind the oil pan rails, you may need to get a small base circle cam, you gotta run some deeply dished pistons or buy some 72cc heads that are worth a damn, and most of the ones that are worth the trouble to bolt onto a 383 cost big money. And as for a big block swap... please. That is in no way easy or cheap, just trying to figure out a streetable exhaust solution is a major pain in the rear. Same with an LS swap. Im a huge fan of LS swaps, I'd do one if I didnt already have an LT1 T56, but the initial costs are pretty high, even if you get a cheap truck motor to do it with. I think I figured up that it would cost between $2500 and $4000 depending on whether I counted the transmission or not and that was going it REAL cheap. Factory truck engine with a bigger cam, f-body pan, engine mounts, trans, carb intake so i could just throw my junk on top of it and go... etc. Even the carb intake is $500. Crappy headers aren't that cheap. Good headers are $700... plus custom exhaust...

The 350 is and has been the sweet spot for a long time and probably will remain the cost/benefit sweet spot for a long time to come. That changes if you're aiming for 500hp, but for the average hot rodder on a budget they're way better finding a 4 inch bore block.

I've seen a NA daily driver 305 with factory heads run low 12's. It was cool. but not so practical. The RPMs it turned would blow up most stock bottom end 305's though and the gears and stall that thing had weren't the most pleasant for urban driving. Im glad I have a 350.

 

Yeah but you get more power and greater driveability with the LSx.

Thats exactly my point tho, at what cost do you determine the 305 rebuild is worth doing compared to going 350 like most here say? Or any other motor swap for that matter?
If you are going to swap in a new block then why not consider lsx? Even the 4.8L will outpower most 350's sbc's and can be found complete for under 600 bucks in some cases.

Again, Its all up to the user to decide what is worth doing and what isnt worth doing. If its out of your budget for performance build, then dont do it. If you arent performance rebuilding then dont worry about a swap and keep what you got.

One of the biggest mistakes I see people make is they rush their engine build and settle for less than optimal parts for their desired goal because the budget isnt there at the time. I'd strongly suggest you wait til you can do what you want, its worth it in the end.

 

i'm gonna throw a t70 on mine this spring an see what 10 lbs of boost will get me with a lt4 cam , aluminum 4 barrel intake ( 1500 - 6500 ) an all supporting mods an tuning with a ebl flash ...

 

I didnt have to worry about small base circle cam for my 383 if you use the right rotating assemblies to begin with. Most rods these days are cut for strokers in mind and will clear most cams.
And really there is nothing to worry about with small circle cams....they arent any more money than regular shelf cam if you went through comp cams. Same with most cam companies. I ordered my cam on a 1" circle at no extra cost from Mike Jones. I dont know why people are worried about small circle cams. Maybe for flat tappet cams they can cause alittle more stress but most of these cars have roller blocks for hyd roller cams.

Very little clearancing involved in doing a 383. Rods same price, crank same price depending on what you get, oil pans no special parts needed, pistons same price depending on who you get. Dont need large cc heads although MOST heads out there come with options for either 64 or 72-76cc versions. Any of the heads out there that are worth putting on a performance build will have options like this.

You can run decent cam on a 383 at 11 to 1 comp with flat top piston/64cc head on pump gas just fine. Thats what I did. Ran great.

I never said easy or cheap had anything do with the logic. You are making the argument that a 305 is wasting money. Well then by the same rule, a 350 is wasting money when a 383 can be had. Or a 400, or a big block or a LS1. See how easy that is to get this twisted around?

 

Chevy High performance did a 305 motor and built it to 325hp. WHen my 305 bit the dust, i was going to do that, until I got a cost estimate from the shop. When a friend in my car club handed me a 4-bolt main 350 for free, I couldn't resist. In went the 350. for about half the cost of the 305 work to make 325hp, I have a 310hp 350 in my daily driver. I love it. I won't get the MPG's the 305 will get unless I switch to EFI, but for the fun factor? Yeah, I'm all smiles when I get on it!

 

I dont see how a 305 will get better MPG than a 350. I would think the potential is in the tune and head design, in which a larger bore 350 should have the advantage if using aftermarket heads. I have heard of 305's getting impressive gas mileage numbers on this site tho, but also some impressive 350 numbers when using 6 speed trans.

 

I could have missed this reason in a post, but in case it wasn't mentioned, I will go ahead and say it. All that horsepower is not good on the chassis of a t-top car. You put your foot into it enough times, it will eventually twist up like a pretzel. I am sure someone will argue with me and say "well, they make stuff to prevent that that you weld on." Personally, I am with a lot of others on here as that it is a personal preference. I drive my car the way it is cause I enjoy the experience of what was manufactured during this 3rd gen period. I kept mine stock with a 305 tpi motor because that is what I wanted and thought it would have the most longevity for me and my application. It was just a personal preference to maintain the stock joy of a great car. So maybe others have stick with a 305 for the same reason.

 

THe 305 is smaller, that's how. Now, mine is carbed, so I've got that against me for MPG, however my 305 was getting 24 highway, 19 city. My 350 gets 14ish city and 18ish highway. With EFI I am sure I'd come alot closer but that's a whole different beast to tackle and not for this thread.

 

Smaller doesnt always mean less fuel is used and better mileage

 

I have put thousands of miles on both 305's and 350's so I know them both very well.

My advice, read post 4, 37, and 132. Those are all you need to know.

 

orr89rocz said it all. Because of some of the post I'm goning build a 305 just because I can. I plan on 10s with tpi turbo and I plan to do it some what cheap. At least compared to my 383 sitting in the corner.

 

I forgot nice gta. The bore only has a problem when you put 202 valves on them the same as 208 valves on a 350 only they don't hit the bore. The 194s work great for the 305 and if you have them cut even better. Power is about how well your engine works with the parts you put on it. I don't care what you build wrong combo will lose hp. A s2000 3inch bore 8500rpms 220hp the little bore does not hurt it just does not make power till 6500rpms

 

S2000 has a 4-valve engine so you can't compare it to a small bore 2-valve engine.

 

Yes you can. The S2000 runs twin 36mm (1.42") intake valves per cylinder (4 cylinders), and each cylinder consists of a 3.42" Bore x 3.31" Stroke. The 305 can run a 1.94" intake valve per cylinder (8 cylinders), and consists of a 3.736" Bore x 3.48" Stroke. What dictates RPM is not only how many valves per cylinder, but the duration of the camshaft, the velocity of the air charge, and the overall distance between the combustion chambers and the plenum. The 305 destroys the S2000 in bottom end torque, and offers just as much horsepower up top because it of course has 4 extra cylinders to help spin the prop. Duration and velocity is the key...

 

... those who do not have access to a machine shop, and who do not do the work themselves (or does not know someone who will), may very well be forced to consider the cost factor of building a 305. However, installing splayed main caps in my 305 was a piece of cake, and I can spin the engine as high as I need to. Times have changed, and the no replacement for displacement addage no longer holds any water w/boost. It takes x amount of horsepower and weight to run a number, whether ET, trap, or top speed. The 305 definitely had no place in the 80's and 90's, save for Preston Smith's old Vortech powered 305 IROC, but in today's day and age it would be absolutely crazy to ignore the engine if you already have it resting between the frame. In reference to the 305, anemic bores and valve shroud are a thing of the past, especially with a turbo.

 

so, they stick 4 small valves in that bore, increased velocity, and tricked that little engine in to thinking it was a big one. My point was its about your combo, what your engine likes. You find its weakness and build around it. The 305 has a small bore, you can only stroke one so much and aftermarket does not support them. So stroker kits cost 650 but you can use it on other sbc later (other then pistons) so not that much of a waste. Now you have 334 but you can't get air into it to feed it. Since its a street engine 6200rpms is a good shift point and can be reached. Stock heads can do that and they come with 294 150 valves and you cut valve angles witch will flow enough for rpm range. You can also manipulate with overlap and duration. Get intake cam headers tune you can hit 500 n/a easy. So it can be done even if you don't stroke it. This is all rough paper build just another way. I do recommend a 400sbc over 350 or 305. But its all in fun and hp only gets you so far before your car is what's holding you back. So I guess after you get that 350 you get a corvette because it comes with 350, weighs less, has better handling and is more aerodynamic. It will save you a lot of money and that's all you 350 guys are trying to do right save every one time and money. So just buy a vett cheaper

 

o and what that guy said

 

pics/links/vids? I hear you talk about this car a lot I'd like to see it it sounds pretty cool!

 

I said this before and I'll say it again 350 or 305 there's not much different in stock power. I know because I sold a 5.7 to get my 5.0 vert. Lets face it both motors are pretty slow compared to todays technology. Yeah it makes sense to build a 350 TPI, I agree with that. But how much faster are you gonna go when you can just get a LS motor and call it a day! With that said I like my lil 305 for now, It just feels fast to me. I really enjoy driving my car. It's fast enough for now and thats what counts!