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Missing antifreeze.....Head gasket or Intake? Does it matter?

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Old Dec 22, 2017 | 08:32 AM
  #51  
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From: Kingsley, MI
Car: 1987 IROC-Z
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: Borg Warner 9 bolt with 3.27
Re: Missing antifreeze.....Head gasket or Intake? Does it matter?

Pulled intake manifold and valve covers last night. No sludge at all under the valve covers. One little place inside the dead water jacket pocket back by cylinder number 7 showed some brown goo and it looked like their might have been very little sealer used on manifold bolts back there. Somehow oil and antifreeze must have mixed up in that dead space. The gasket has that dead water passage blocked off except for a small hole.

The good news is that all the mating surfaces look great with no pitting!
Attached Thumbnails Missing antifreeze.....Head gasket or Intake?  Does it matter?-motor-2.jpg   Missing antifreeze.....Head gasket or Intake?  Does it matter?-motor.jpg  
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Old Jan 1, 2018 | 05:07 PM
  #52  
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Car: 1987 IROC-Z
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: Borg Warner 9 bolt with 3.27
Re: Missing antifreeze.....Head gasket or Intake? Does it matter?

Additional update. Pulled head bolts this past week and it appears they may have been assembled with RTV as sealant. Looks like plenty of moisture above the threads and they reek like burned buttholes. I think I have found my disappearing antifreeze issue.
Attached Thumbnails Missing antifreeze.....Head gasket or Intake?  Does it matter?-46a8819d-09a6-4e25-9bee  

Last edited by Jimmy2x; Jan 1, 2018 at 05:13 PM. Reason: Add pic
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Old Jul 11, 2018 | 08:51 AM
  #53  
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From: Kingsley, MI
Car: 1987 IROC-Z
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: Borg Warner 9 bolt with 3.27
Re: Missing antifreeze.....Head gasket or Intake? Does it matter?

I know it has been quite a while since I posted on this issue but I wanted to close out this thread by letting everyone know that the antifreeze issue has been resolved.

It looks as though Sofa had hit the nail on the head by indicating that the antifreeze was slipping by the treads on the head bolts. I pulled each one out this past winter and resealed and re-torqued. Been driving the car for about 2 months now and have not had to add a drop of antifreeze to the overflow jug.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply and help out.

A special shout out to Sofa for his expertise on-line and off. Thank you for always answering my dumb questions and sharing your "tricks".
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Old Jul 11, 2018 | 09:29 AM
  #54  
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Re: Missing antifreeze.....Head gasket or Intake? Does it matter?

Originally Posted by sofakingdom
Head gaskets are almost NEVER responsible for mystery coolant loss, in this type of engine.



Here's what one looks like, with the holes marked. Sorry the photo is so big, I didn't realize that until after I posted it. Copy it and paste it into Paint or something to see the whole thing.

Cyan is the "steam holes" for a 400, which your gasket doesn't have. Red is the dowel pin holes. Yellow is the bolt holes. Light grey is oil drainback from the rocker arms. All others are coolant. The magenta ones are the most important... they cool the hottest bit of casting in the whole engine, which is, the part of the head between the 2 center exhaust ports... that was what I originally posted this photo to explain to somebody.

Now, LOOK AT the various spacings of things in that gasket, and consider the pressures. Coolant is under 15 psi or so; combustion is in the 1200 - 1500 kind of range. THIMK: if that gasket is going to fail, WHERE is it most likely to do so? Would it not be where 2 1500 psi chambers (aka "cylinders") are right next to each other with only a very narrow strip of material separating them?

This is why, when a gasket fails, it ALMOST ALWAYS affects the way the engine runs. They fail between cylinders, the thin places in those cyan rectangles with the steam holes, and VERY RARELY anywhere else.

Put head gasket failure out of your mind.

Bolts are a different matter... on every single one of them, all 17 per side, the threads are exposed to coolant. If the builder used an inappropriate sealer such as RTV on them, or no sealer at all, then they are VIRTUALLY 100% IRONCLAD GUARANTEED to leak. Which is why I suggested pulling every one, one at a time, and putting some thread sealer (my preferred stuff is the "high temp automotive thread sealer with Teflon" from Permatex or Loctite, same company, whichever brand the label says) on their threads and under their head, and re-torqueing them to 60 - 62 ft-lbs. DO NOT use a "clicker" type wrench. Use a beam or dial type. MAKE SURE you measure the torque while the bolts are actually turning, i.e. DO NOT make the mistake of setting them by their "breakaway" torque. ABSOLUTELY NO MORE THAN 65 ft-lbs: if the torque exceeds that while the bolt is moving, back it out, put more sealer on it, re-torque.

I like that valve stem in a rad cap... so simple and basic and cheeeeeeeep, yet perfectly functional. However a leak typically has to be pretty yuuuuuujjjjjjje to be detectable that way.

The intake gasket is a very good suggestion also. Depending on what kind was used, they can easily fail. The cheeeeep paper-ish ones are total crap and are almost certain to fail rapidly. It will be obvious if they have failed, when you pop the intake off.

If it was mine, I'd pull the intake and exh manifolds, and the valve covers; do the bolts; and make sure the intake goes back on PERFECT. I'll be happy to detail how to do that in a separate post when you get to that point.


Very interesting, but could you translate "Cyan" and "Magenta" to colors guys would more likely understand?
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Old Jul 11, 2018 | 10:15 AM
  #55  
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Car: 1987 IROC-Z
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: Borg Warner 9 bolt with 3.27
Re: Missing antifreeze.....Head gasket or Intake? Does it matter?

Red and Purple
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Old Jul 11, 2018 | 10:29 AM
  #56  
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From: Kingsley, MI
Car: 1987 IROC-Z
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: Borg Warner 9 bolt with 3.27
Re: Missing antifreeze.....Head gasket or Intake? Does it matter?

Sorry, greenish blue and purple.
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Old Jul 11, 2018 | 06:11 PM
  #57  
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Re: Missing antifreeze.....Head gasket or Intake? Does it matter?



You would "think" RTV should work fine for that purpose. BUTT: the bolts MOVE. The sealant tears into little shreds as a result. It CANNOT survive more than a handful of temp cycles. It ALWAYS fails and leeeeeeks. (back in the day, "shellac" such as Indian Head did the same thing; but there weren't really any alternatives) A sealer that doesn't "harden" is required, if you want reliability from your 40s/50s engine design that rivals 21st century designs.

Glad you got it solved, and that I was able to help.
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Old Jul 12, 2018 | 06:41 PM
  #58  
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Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 10 Bolt 2.73 Open
Re: Missing antifreeze.....Head gasket or Intake? Does it matter?

I did not know all the SBC head bolts went into the cooling jacket. Bookmarking this for sure.
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