ever since i bought my camaro my neighbor badly wants to race me in his 78 t/a. evertime i wash the car his kids jump around sayin "my daddy would woop you" and "my daddy's car gottsa v-10" and blah blah blah. well im getting tired of the nagging so i think i may race him in a few weeks.
here are the specs

78 t/a
6.6 402
stock

92rs
5.0 305
flowmaster american thunder cat-back exhaust
slp cold air induction
slp take off posi
3.42 gears
hotchis subframe connectors
spohn adjustable lca's(set for off the line traction)
lca re-location brackets

Were not racing for a few weeks so i might end up having another mod put on. Do you think i can take him right now and what do you suggest for the next mod(im getting a 350 for the summer so no expensive engine mods not available for both engines,interchangable)
i think i can take him
mike

Smogger heads=suck... Probably you should win, unless he has better heads and cam... I think the late 70s trans ams were mid 15s low 16s? I don't remember but you should win anyway...

I ran my buddies 77 t/a that had the olds motor in my '85. I got him off the line (700r4 vs. th350), but once first gear was done I stopped pulling. He didnt make any ground up, but he certainly didnt loose any. His was stock other than cat back exhaust, a little more timing, and some carb tweaks. I'd put his quarter mile times in the 15.0-15.4 range.

You would probably loose your car as it is. Give it a try and let us know how things turned out.

-Doug

WHAT??? a v10, he's an idiot

stock that car will run a 17 flat, I had a '76TA and that thing was slow and the gearing in those cars are horrible. Not too mention they're tanks.

A stock 455 in '76 ran 17 flat, though I hear the 400s were better engines.

Mark it really does depend on the stock gears. In the late 70's something like 2.41's were standard. The 77 I raced had the optional 3.08's

-Doug

Oh, I didn't know they had some with 3:08s, yeah the one I had, had the horrible gears.

No, even with 2.73s a guy with a 400 t/a made it into the 16s in a pontiac magazine. With 3.23s (or 3.73s?) and manual transmission-- 14s or 15s.
What the hell is a 402??? I've heard of a 403 rocket (heh heh) and a 400 chevy, oldsmobile, or pontiac...or ford or dodge.
Is it a 403 or 400? Or is it some kind of "planted" engine?

I remember a magazine where a guy had a rebuilt original 455 in his '76 and ran a 17.1 or .0 forget which.

Yeah, that motor is probably a 403.

any ideas on the next modification that might give me a little extra edge for the race?

the motors probably a 403, i heard 402 and im not really familiar with those cars so...

402 is a 396 chevy bored .030 over. We have one in the garage, but does it go in my trans am? Of course not. I guess i can be happy with the 350.

I have a feeling this "402" is the olds 403, not a rebuilt rat. That would be cool...but I doubt it.

I also agree that headers will be the best way for you to even things up.

-Doug

Find out what kind of rear end the T/A has. If they are 2.41 you will destroy him. If they are 3.08 it will be close. But if he has some 3.73 or 4.11 or anything aftermarket like that it doesn't look good for you. I have a 1980 T/A with 2.41 they are total dogs, but the car will do 160 m.p.h. .
The 70's and early 80's T/A's where know for bad 1/4 gearing but a set of 3.73 will really bring that car to life.
But if you ask him and he says he doesn't know they are probably 2.41's or 3.08's so wax him :rockon:
Good Luck

The only problem with headers is that for a 305 id have to get, if i want anytype of improvement, the 1 5/8 primaries which would not work well with the 350ho, which is what im getting put in this summer, hopefully

Another thing i got working to my advantage is the fact that the guy racing is about 300lbs while im sitting at around 200.
plus the guy hardly drives the car and its been leaking oil for the longest.

any idea on any other mods, as much as id love to get headers i dont think its worth the money right now, unfortunately.

a car sitting around, leaking oil is probably stock. If so, wax him...:rockon:

The TH350 came in those cars right? Or does this guy have 4 on the floor? If he's got the 2.41s then he's most likely gonna lose.

The TH350 has 2.52 first gear, with a 2.41 rear, that thing probably doesn't start to shine until 3rd after the race is over... But the 402 has got potential, it can probably still roast the tires and its probably pushing 260+ Hp... other than that, the car probably weighs 4000 lbs at the curb and it can't handle for ****... without 4.10's that car is gonna be wasting that TH350s capabilities...

If it is a 4 speed, I'd give him better odds, but not by much...

if its a 4-speed car you will get whacked, if its the olds 403 auto you will most likely win, if its a WS6 4-speed 400 pontiac you will get annihalted

So how fast is like the Smokey and the bandit transam???

I drove a Brown TRansm 6.6 one time, and it planted me
back in the seat and felt fast as Hell.. it sure felt alot faster
than my 305 TBI.. The dude who let me drive it told me it
was a 455 engine.
All I know is It planted me in the backrest, and I almost lost
control of the car cuz it fishtailed like crazy.. I regained control.. and hit the gas and I hit 100 mph so fast I bout shot monkey juice!

IIRC, the 455 Super Duty was the only well performing motor of that era. And it ran 14's or 15's.

The smokey and the bandit TA was one of those that had been modified into the mid 13's.

should learn more about your 2nd gens there the SD-455's were in 73-74 and were running high 13's right off the showroom floor, threw a 2" Y-pipe exhaust and 8:1 compression! no other car was even close to pontiac in the 70's and running a high 13 in the middle of the smog area in the tank of a car was hauling some serious ***. the smokey and the bandit car was a "6.6 litre" (400) 4-speed WS6 car, they ran mid 14's with a even better 7.6:1 compression.

The 403 olds was only 185HP and low 16's at best. Actual time form a mag is 16.4@80mph .There were 2 400 pontiacs available in 78. One is 220 HP 400..my dad had one with a 4spd. They are low 15's with the 4spd (time from mag 15.3@96.6). The other is less..can't remember off top of my head. The one's in Smokey and The Bandit had built up 455's in them with auto. I have some Pontiac mags from early 80's still and it talked about them!! If it is auto..you have a chance..if 4spd...doubt it...

I've always heard that the Smokey and the Bandit Trans Am was a 403 modified, and it certainly sounds like it.
So, 400 trans ams are fast alright. But put them up to a 403 with 3.42 gearing and the tables are turned. I was up against at least 2 late 70s Trans Ams and embarrassed them everytime.
185 hp stock is correct...Might you have the torque numbers?

i dunno if this will help but here it is

400 Pontiac is 200HP@4000RPM's and 325 ft lbs. torque at 2000 and the HP 400 was 220HP@4000RPM's and 320 ft. lbs. torque at 2800. The HP 400 had a larger cam..more HP less TQ. The above stated ratings for the 403 are correct for the T/A also.

Those are crappy hp numbers for such a big engine but gotta love that :hail: torque.

One of my favorite muscle cars...73 Super Duty T/A.. 455 with 310HP@4000RPM's and a smoking 390 ft. lbs@3600 of torque!! Ran 13.5-13.8 at 103-105 with crap radials back then...

I own both a 92 RS (with headers back exhaust and edelbreck air cleaner w/k&n) and 78 t/a w/200hp 400 which is completely stock. Having driven both these cars, as long as the t/a is in good condition I believe it would be a drivers race. The problem with the t/a is that if running good will spin the tires off the line. If anybody in Houston wants to race my t/a we can give you a definate answer.

my friend has a 78-79 TA 6.6 403 shaker hood scoop, punched .30 over ,black and all that crap except t tops, he has headers, glasspacks, orignal manifold, quadrajet carb, and ****ty gears, i think he run in the low 15's high 14's, i've driven it in comparison to my GTA i would slaughter him but he thinks he would kill me, if he changed his gears, he probably would.....

If he got the crate 455 big blocks that are like 500 HP/500 ft. lbs that 4000 lbs monster second gen would be a beast. I hear the 77s run a 15.5 so, it's safe to say they are a 15 second car with a 400 cid engine.

just look at the shaker, if you see "6.6 t/a" don't mess with him, if you see "6.6 Litre" then try him, you got a good chance. My '78 has the pontiac motor :hail: "6.6 t/a" or :hail: 400 t/a. That motor is a factory hot rod. it's a pontiac 400 with 350 heads to boost compression, and a hotter cam. they choked it down with 70's smog intake and lowsey exhaust manifolds. Even stock it was good for 15 sec flat. I broke into the 13's with carb, intake, headers, and exhaust. if it's the olds motor ("6.6 Litre", 403) it's most likely stock (they didn't take well to hot rodding, many parts look like swiss cheese for all the holes in em) and it's most likely backed by a turbo 350. My advice for the 403, don't try him from a rolling start. Regaurless, those 2.73 gears and that "no replacement for displacement" tourque should put on a good show



oh, and the smokey and the bandi car was a '77 trans am special edition with the 400 t/a and the turbo 350 tranny. the only reason people think it's a hot rod is becuase all the tire smoke... but with those gears they do that stock, easily

For the longest time I wanted a 77-78 Trans-Am, I wanted to put in that crate 455 in there too, but the cars handling was nothing compared to that of the IROC-Z, or third gens in general, and it weighed quite a bit more than the IROCs, so I got my Black 89 with T-tops and a, at least according to the specs given here, more muscular L98. I ran a 14.8 bone stock, and I was very pleased, but I wouldn't mind having a 450 HP 396 at a slight expense of handling. Nothing so suspension upgrades can't take care of anyways.

Well, for 185 hp, those 403 will move with descent gearing. That is, at least 2.73. All the same, torque messes people up. If they can smash someone into the seat, they tend to think it is a real monster.

lol, as I thought with my 89 RS, then I ran a 16.8 and felt gyped

My sister has a 77 firebird formula with the olds 403 in it, with a 2.5x open rear...

let me just say that if you sleep through the launch, and the 'bird is well tuned (even stock), and you don't run for a full 1/4, the 'bird WILL take you. These things have amazing torque. They have no HP and they quit pulling pretty quickly, almost kind of like a TPI that dies even sooner. but they are pretty stout off the line. The 403 is about all done by 4000 rpm.

With all that said, if you can launch with him, you've got him.

As for quarter mile time, all i can tell you is that my sisters has pulled repeateable high (gtech) 15's with 3 people in the car. My gtech is known to be about 1/2 second optimistic in the ET, so with 1 person in the car you are still looking at about a 16 flat.

With nothing more than a manifold, exhaust, and gears, these cars are knocking on the door of 14's.

good luck!

I have a Pontiac Performance magazine form 1980 where it states that they had built up 454 in the car they used for the chase scenes and tire burning. My dad also had a 78 T/A as I stated..went pretty good. The only mod he did was put a cam in it....which made a big difference. He also had a 73 Firebird with the 350 and shaker hood. I've got old pics I scanned of it but they are not the best quality.