I am the proud owner of an 89 Firebird Formula 350. Recently it was rebuilt with a Scat crank, Eagle Rods and SRP pistons. It has a mild cam and ported L98 heads. I have an AFPR, screens removed on MAF, MSD coil and wires, and SLP induction. I have a custom 3 in. cat back with a flowmaster muffler. I want to know if I could beat a 2002 Honda Accord 4 banger with a APC ram air induction, 2.5 catback, vtec contoller, and a custom ported head. My problem is that my car loses alot of grunt after 5000 rpms and his accord hauls up to 6500. Could I beat him? If not, what else bolt on wise do I need to win? I want to beat him motor to motor but we racing for $1000. I don't want to lose the money but also I don't want to be known as the guy that lost to a honda. Please help. Thanks.

 

quite a bit of money to be racing for, with no idea how your car runs. the 4 banger will spin higher because its a 4 banger, they live at higher RPM than the v8's typically do. Without knowing the comp ratio, what the cam really is or what other mods you have it would be hard to give an accurate answer. I think you have a good chance, but i know nothing about the rest of your car or you/his driving abilities

 

no replacement for displacement. I'm no expert, (and some of the other guys might correct me if I'm wrong) although his redline might be higher, you'll pull out so far ahead in the lower rpms (from the line) I don't think you'll have much of a problem. I'm guessing you're running TPI which are known for low end torque...

 

well hmm....im going w/ you. sounds like you have quiet a bit of engine work done. my friends civic hatch (man. tranny) ran 15.9 w/ only exhaust. its all on the driver tho.

 

I wish I could race a accord like that for $1000 in my car. Thats easy money. I put my money on the 3rd gen, you'll pull harder down low and then hes just playing catchup which I doubt he'll win. Custom ported head but stock manifolds? I smell

 

What tranny and what gears are you running?

 

This is for serious? The 2002 Accord isnt' a small car anymore, and the 4cyl model doesn't have much grunt, I would think even with all those mods the car would be luck to touch a 15.0, your L98 could put half a second on that stock. You've got a cam, some supporting mods (I didn't see a mention of headers, thats probably the biggest thing holding you back at this point), even with a stock converter and crappy gears you'll wreck him off the line if you can drive at all. I don't think you'd have a problem staying in front either. RPM's don't matter much, its about the power, plain and simple. You both weight about the same, you've got at least 30hp on the combo he has, and probably an honest 150ft/lbs of torque. (if his mod list is all accurate - anybody making $1,000 dollar bets w/ a seemingly slower car is usually up to something) Remember, torque wins from a dig every time.

 

2002 Accord stock - est. 150hp/152tq 2900 lbs 19.3 lb per hp
1989 Formula stock - est. 240hp/330tq 3400 lbs 14.1 lb per hp

90hp and 178tq difference, vs 500 lbs

I'd say the mods done to both cars would lean more to the Fomula for gains, but at the least they would be break even.

how ever.. thirdgen 350 tpi cars seem to run all over the place for times. anywhere from mid 13's with minor bolt ons to 14 flat all stock.. on up to low 15s.

I'd never race for $ never know what can go wrong.

 

im just a little leary about the $1000 bit, this kid must have money falling out of his *** or the honda is not what he says it is.

 

Unless he's cheating and not telling you something (hidden power adder) my initial choice is you all the way (seeing your car is in good tune and you hook well).

 

For that amount of money, put some drag radials on and race from a stop.

 

As me having some experience on the way the underground street racing works IIRC
If it was him who come and called you out for that kind of cash, that honda ain't what it seems unless it's like the kid wipes his *** with 100$ bills there's something he ain't telling you about i.e. 150 shot of juice

If it smells fishy (not literally) don't do it.

 

actually.......a similar situation happened to my neighbor....he had a 02 mustang GT 5 spd with gears, cat back and other small mods.....local car crew, aka punk high schoolers with parents that buy them their cars, was trying to punk him out at a mcdonalds.....srt4 that we later found out was mostly stock (upgraded injectors, cai and catback), bet my neighbor $700 that he could win against him in a race from a dig.....well my neighbor was $700 richer 15 minutes later......could be throwing money like that just to scare but who knows? its alot of $ to bluff with...
----------
hey are yall racing 1/4 mile? 1/8 mile? from roll? dig?

 

Dude just play the game right, hide a nitrous kit on your car and borrow some drag radials, hell buy a set the money you'll win will make it worth it. Do make sure that someone neutral holds the cash at the finish line that way if you win he doesn't pull some crap and try and back out of the bet.

 

i raced my friends turboed civic with my stock 305 tbi and it wasnt that bad. i pulled off the line and held him in 2nd but he pulled me after that. Hondas have nothing down low, you should have an easy win if hes telling the truth

 

"Honda's have nothing down low" is way to general of a statement to put this kind of money on. I've seen 10 second Civics and Integra's at Edgewater and you would never guess it. The Fast and the Furious craze is over and most of the poser import kids are thinning out, the game's has a little different odds than it did a few years ago. I recommend coming with your A plus game if you're going to do this one. You can never be overprepared.

 

2002 accord with a 4cyl... slow car, even with those basic mods. it is not fast at all.. if u have a l98 with a healthy rebuild and a cam slp induction and 3' exhaust.. it should really be no conteset,, u should smoke him off the line half way through and cross the line at leadt 3-4 cars on him. what gears do u have?? just get that formy to hook.. should be nor problem,, unless he's hidding a 150 shot of spray.. then its a race.

 

Check out the hidden NOS kits on Jegs...1) for you too see what they have for you...and 2)see what they offer for honda's. Might give you something to look for if you scope out his car. Hidden NOS kits are in! **** the money, it's all about reputation of the third gen! "Cheating is only unfair to the guys that lose"

 

If the mods you know of are the only mods he has you should have no problem. But anybody putting up 1000$ on a race probably has hidden surprises.

Make sure you can launch get some good tires.

FYI your car needs headers gears(i wouldnt go higher then a 3.42) and a 3000 stall and then it will be a helluva street car. (basically how my old car was setup)

You dont need to wind your car up much past 5000 rpms ...

 

I haven't grown the uh, let's see, uh, Bal--. no hang on, uh, the testic--, no the manhood to race him yet. What you have to understand is this kid has a rich mommy and daddy so they buy the car and he can't pee pee his money on what ever he wants because he ain't got to worry about losing much. I have a 3.23 posi in back and my edelbrock headers are laying in my garage. I guess it's time to put them on. My problem is my car loses a TON of power after 5k or so and his car really really revs way up. Maybe like 8k or so! He popped the hood and couldn't see much. He "says" he has a ported head and I did notice a DC sports header that he didn't mention. Also he has stipped out everthing in the trunk and took out the back seats which he "forgot" to mention. I think that I should wait for me to put on my headers with exhaust dumps and buy some Mickey Thompson Sportsmans. I want to stay away from spray but I think I could take him if I sprayed a small shot. Thanks for the info but I think if I put another $500 in my car, I would have a fighting chance. Besides a power adder, what else could I do to give me say another 3 or 4 tenths?

 

Port your base and siamese your plenum, stall converter, 1.6 ratio rockers. Don't worry about how high the engine revs that tells you nothing about the power it actually produces; he may be able to make his torque for a long while but it's not a very large ammount of it to begin with.

 

A good tune would also help you out alot...

 

unless the guy has some sort of power adder, youll win. end of story

4cyls dont net anywhere near the gains a V8 does from minor boltons

just cause his car revs up to 8k and yours only to 5k doesnt mean his is faster. you probably make more power at 3200rpms than his does at 8k. BTW- if youre running the stock TPI setup you shouldnt be shifting past 5k anyway

if his car is really what he says it is (providing you dont blow the launch) youll rape him off the line and keep pulling all the way to the finish

 

stop worrying about how high his honda revs! by the time he get his p.o.s up to 8k you should have 3 cars on him..

 

Hell I've seen 10 seconds diesels at my work and they don't rev too high.

 

put your headers on there and a decent set of tires and you should have no problem unless he has more then he says

if you want a few extra tenths pull you carpet out and get rid of the jute underneath it and lose the jack and spare for the race

 

I always forget about weight reduction. I guess anymore I'm so used to people doing everything free that it's basically expected. Don't just stop with the jute under the carpets, rid yourself of the back seats, subwoofers, hatch carpet; anything that weighs more than a pound will add up quick.

 

i would say weight reduction.. i just drove my moms bone stock 03 4banger accord a few hours ago and its nothing special.. then again, i do drive whats in my sig.. with all his mods, he will run AT absolute FASTEST in the high 14's.. hell, over here theres fully built hatch's on motor in the high 13's, low 14's.. you should kill him.. get the tires and put the headers on.. oh, MT drag radials would be a wiser investment than the sportsmans.. with an auto, you will not spin once heated..

 

well I have seen my fair share of 10 second sleeper turbo civics and such. But the fastest N/A civic I've seen was in the low 13's. It did sound a lot different than stock though.

 

Oh brother. If you have to worry about racing a near stock Honda, then you didnt build your car right. Just go race him. YOU made the bet, now man up and go kick his *** (or HER ***, since its a Honda).

 

You should deffinatly have him but something does seem weird. honda are pos but with money they are quick. my buddy has a 89 crx gutted aith a 1.6 vtec swap he runs 14.6. but thats a light honda. lol what ever you do just watch your *** or drop the bet to 500 or somthing you can choke down a little easyer if **** happens.

just take it to the drag strip in your area. he probably wont know how to go with the lights and **** just my 2 cents

 

get us some pics of his car, and your car(and motors)!!!!!we'll let you know if you can get em..most honda deusches match all motorwork with dress up work, ya know, cause paint and wire looms will make it faster....!!?!?!?!?

 

I finally raced his honda yesterday. I got him late at nite on route 83 (Illinois residents know what I'm referring to) and we finally raced. When the lite turned green, on floored it. My tires started spinning like crazy and he jumped out in front of me. My tires grabbed at about 30mph and I started to pull on him. By 60, I was maybe 2 cars ahead and I just kept my foot buried into the carpet. After the race, he admitted that he was running nitrous and he showed me his system. It's hard to explain but it looked like a motorcycle system or something. It was a small polished bottle, maybe like 1 lb. It had only a nitrous solenoid and no fuel solenoid. The bottle can be hidden in the glove box and there are no lines to see from the inside of the car! Very creative and cool. In case anyone was wondering, the bottle said NOS so I guess Nitrous Oxide Systems makes the kit or maybe rich boy figured a way to fab up something. What should I do with the money for my car? I was thinking about saving for a mini-ram and tires but what do you guys think? Thanks for helping me kick his hiney. I didn't want to lose cause it is a small chunk of change. Now what to do next, that's the question.

 

AAAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! He seriously thought a little sneaky pete system would help him? That system gave him MAYBE 20hp for 1/2 the run. Buy some tires and a REAL nitrous kit with your cash and race his fast friends next time for three times the money.

 

BRAG! well. even tho it is a honda.

 

Sneaky pete? Please explain. I figured the mini-ram would be more fun than nitrous, I guess you disagree, is that correct? Yes it's a honda but I will brag because hondas are light, have recent technology, and have a strong aftermarket support just like the SBC.

 

You lost a holeshot to a FWD Honda? Your next mod won't cost you a thing, just learn to launch the car. Thats gonna serve you better than anything else at this point. You can give up 2 cars of the line if your remarkably faster, but if it was an other-wise close match, you'd be toast with starts like that.

 

The hondurrr kid was possibly running a sneaky pete NOS system. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku If the link doesn't work, here's the Summit part number NOS-05029NOS

Congrats on being 1,000 bucks richer and giving some ammo for his buddies to tease him for a while for losing.

 

Props to the Honda guy. At least for keeping his end of the bargain. Then again he did try to cheat you out of your money by not telling you about the Nitrous.

 

That nitrous system is the one that he had. I think it is kinda cool but I don't think it would last long in one of our cars. Heck, a 10 lb bottle doesn't last that long. 10 oz. would also be a waste to refill cause of the line charge. That little bottle is more or less pointless. I couldn't launch cause I haven't raced it since the rebuild. I more or less wanted it to look good and sound mean. That explains why I'm spending money on dumb stuff like polished under hood components. I'm thinking of getting that cool looking coolant overflow tank from tpis. Looks nifty. I should spend the money on speed parts though, don't you think?

 

if you don't like the look of your over flow do the overflow relocation mod and move it in front of the radiator it only will cost you like 20$

 

NITROUS KIT... you'll never regret it. Jet it for a 100 shot and grab hold of some sticky tires you'll be rocking hardcore. It's nice to have a good looking mean sounding car but it's badass to have a FAST nice looking car.

 

congrats on the kill...I told you you'd kill him no matter his redline...First, its your money so you should do what you want with it, BUT if you must have our advice... Show us some pix of your car. If your car is a daily driver, you might want to get some "not so radical" parts. Some aftermarket wheels maybe? Fiberglass hood? I personally, am trying to save up for NOS kit for my car (a bit under $600) but I also have an internally stock 305...

 

you know that is a little uncalled for. the first part is fine the last part of it though just goes to show you why stereotypes happen.

no wonder everybody hates thirdgen owners. or I'm sorry should I say.... something about necks, hair styles and tight white tank tops here... nah I won't go down to your level.

 

well this is a " thirdgen" forum...
----------
not many honda fans here.. not to mention there are slow unless theres about 20k worth of bolt ons and power adderes on there.. but then there still ugly annoying cars.. that wont get better with time like a f-body does

 

I think you did go right down to his level with your hair style/tank top comments.

I have plenty of respect for anything that's fast, the badge on the hood is unimportant. I have no respect for something thats dressed up w/ a loud exhaust, gauges, a loud mouth w/ any substance behind it, and 100whp to back it up. Its true enough that there are plenty of domestic and import owners that talk a bunch without any real knowledge to back it up.

 

well,,, he smoked the honda, even with his "nos".. so that should tell u something. honda's suck..

 

I agree with atc3434 as long as the cars fast and doesnt have a mouthy driver i respect it. i dont like hondas but i know what there capable of being 11 or 12 second cars without breaking a sweat. my friends honda beat me at 4 psi

 

I could of use the "correct" words on that but I don't believe it for the most part with most owners. I'm not saying he is one or anything like that. just more or less it could go both ways there.



8t9bandit it doesn't take 20k unless you are a fan of the fast and the furious and shop like they do. and 8t9 all that shows is THAT ONE SPECIFIC honda isn't that fast. your post is like me saying hey I smoked a camaro that means chevy sucks. you know just as well as I do it's stupid and doesn't prove anything about chevy as a whole but rather just that one camaro. please don't stereotype and quit lumping everything together as one car. I don't care that this is a thirdgen forum. being at a thirdgen forum doesn't mean that being closed minded, arrogant, and having the attitude that if it doesn't have a GM badge on it then it is slow. it shouldn't mean that you can just sit there and disrespect non-thirdgen owners even more so since many many people here have cars other then their thirdgen. all your doing is bringing the general down. should I hand you the shovel so you can finish the job?



the original guy in the race though sounds a little sneaky without much research. those things MIGHT be good for one pass but it would take more then just having the power adder as it would having more of it. glad you managed to make some money on the deal though out of his loss and partial stupidity. but first things first put the money in the bank and go out in the back country and learn to launch. only way you should of lost the holeshot to a car like that is if he was running slicks and caught a better reaction time and full suspension mods, while you had stock worn out tires beat up shocks and worn rubber bushing to all hell almost to the point of falling apart.. not due to driver error on your part. launch quick and hard with at most a little chirp don't spin them. practice makes good and with tpi engine that's mostly what you have is that getting off the line part. ruin that and it's a lot harder to catch up.

 

I don't want anyone to diss honda here. I myself used to own a 2000 SI but I always got owned by every V8 because that edelbrock turbo kit sucked. Don't buy it, I should have gone turbonetics. Anywho, I haven't had the car all that long, about 2 years and since I've had it, I've put about 4,000 miles on it. No winters, rainy days, or very windy days. I hardly ever punch it in my car and it is a project car that I'm working on while doing a 2004 Corolla. I have respect for the honda crowd and that is why I was originally nervous about racing. When I had my civic, I did the mistake of racing an S2000 and I got owned. Badly, like maybe 8 cars within three blocks. I've put the money in the bank until I know what I want to do with it. As for the coolant tank, I'm okay with seeing it, it's just ugly. I'm searching for under hood pics to get an idea of what can be done but I'm falling short. And uh, falling "short" isn't something that I'm used to.