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'Performance Proms' , also TPS enhancer snake oil, and other chip basics

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'Performance Proms' , also TPS enhancer snake oil, and other chip basics

Old 06-26-2002, 11:06 AM
  #51  
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Location: Salisbury NC
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Car: 87 Monte Carlo SS
Engine: 89 IROC 350 TPI
Transmission: 700R4 rebuilt w/TCI kit
Axle/Gears: 9" from 57 ranchero unsure gears.
yes I understand the tuning the eprom and how the highway mode helps in economy but presently I dont have the stuff to burn my own, will hopefully have it all here in the next month or so.
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Old 06-26-2002, 11:09 AM
  #52  
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Not that I defend the purchase of aftermarket Eproms, BUT they are not all worthless. There are Eproms a person could buy that world work very effectively even if the person who designed them did not drive the car.

The following eproms could be produced effectively with just a little information from the car owner.

VATS disabled(or any flag for that matter)
Fan engagment temperature
Closed loop engagement temperature (also dealing with Temps)

Changes like a thermostat can be effective if the proper things in the chip can be changed
Transmission swaps can be aided by just turning of the flag for MSS.

I help people in my area all the time with these types of changes and they are all satisfied. The only thing I make them pay for is a new MEMCAL from GM so I can modify it for the new chip without accidently destroying there stock one.

Last edited by DAVECS1; 06-26-2002 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 06-26-2002, 08:11 PM
  #53  
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Originally posted by DAVECS1
Not that I defend the purchase of aftermarket Eproms, BUT they are not all worthless. There are Eproms a person could buy that world work very effectively even if the person who designed them did not drive the car.

The following eproms could be produced effectively with just a little information from the car owner.

VATS disabled(or any flag for that matter)
Fan engagment temperature
Closed loop engagement temperature (also dealing with Temps)

Changes like a thermostat can be effective if the proper things in the chip can be changed
Transmission swaps can be aided by just turning of the flag for MSS.

I help people in my area all the time with these types of changes and they are all satisfied. The only thing I make them pay for is a new MEMCAL from GM so I can modify it for the new chip without accidently destroying there stock one.
Those changes are not a "custom eprom" in my opinion. It's a simple change - much like increasing the Injector Constant for new injectors. And anyone that would charge for those changes should be ashamed of themselves. It truly is a rip-off for such simple changes.

But, for those that say "I can't afford the equipment, blah, blah, blah", all I can say is "You are missing out big time". You can EASILY make the equipment pay for itself just by proper tuning with the gas you save.

But when people are expecting MORE POWER by having someone else burn them an eprom, they are going to be sadly disappointed. It just won't happen. Sure it may be BETTER than the stock eprom (if they've made changes to their motor), but they are NOT going to get anywhere near the performance they could if they took the time and learnt how to do it.

I truly find it funny to see guys spend thousands of dollars on parts, and then they won't learn to tune their own eprom. And then they wonder why all that money only made them .5 seconds faster? I do better than that on my basically stock engine with just eprom tuning. They may as well have left their engine stock and just spent the $200 on the eprom equipment - they would have been further ahead (and won't even have to get dirty doing it).
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Old 07-26-2002, 12:36 PM
  #54  
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Car: 1990 Iroc-Z Convertible
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What kind of cable is required to run Craig Moate's software? Can this be setup to run just as a scanner for now?? It will be a while before I can get into burning?

How do we get Craig Moate's software?
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Old 07-26-2002, 12:46 PM
  #55  
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BTW, I am running w2k on my laptop.
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Old 07-26-2002, 01:08 PM
  #56  
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Originally posted by 90IROCconv
What kind of cable is required to run Craig Moate's software? Can this be setup to run just as a scanner for now?? It will be a while before I can get into burning?

How do we get Craig Moate's software?
There are several models of cables that will work, and Craig has links to the plans for how to make them at his site.

Yes, you can use the software even if you just have the stock chip - It's a *very* useful tool both for tuning and troubleshooting!!!
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Old 07-31-2002, 09:34 PM
  #57  
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I have read through everything in this post twice and I am very thankful and kinda overwhelmed at the same time. I guess I am like most people on here, wanted to get into burning my own chips but was too scared too. I did have few questions though.

#1 Can you keep your stock chip as a back-up and copy over your stock configuration to a new chip? That way you are not testing and tuning the stock one?

#2 I hear people talking about they burned their own chip bcause they upgraded their injectors, put headers on, and a different set of heads. I do not understand how you know what to change to make your system take more advantage of your upgrades. Is it just a trial and error thing?

#3 I like Craig's adapter and I would much rather buy one that try to solder stuff to my stock "computer" I could not tell exactly by the pics and the info but do you just take out the old chip and plug in his adapter so you can just swap out chips as much as you like? It says at the bottom of the page about "I added a soldered-in gold contact 28-pin socket below the ZIF, and the ZIF snaps into that, so when you get done tuning just pop out the ZIF, snap in the final EPROM/FLASH, and then you can close your lid up with the adapter (minus the ZIF) inside the ECM without any clearance issues at all." Do you actually take the adapter back out?


Thank you again to everyone who has posted on here. I know what I am saving up for to get for Christmas!!! Burning equipment!
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Old 07-31-2002, 10:02 PM
  #58  
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#1 and 3 go hand in hand. Just like you said, moates adapter uses the stock memcal for it's ESC and limp home stuff, but lets you use a different chip. And if for some reason the chip you burnt failed (which is very unlikely) you could swap the stocker back in just by taking out the adapter. Yes, it's that easy and safe.

#2 is a more complex question. For something like injectors it's just a matter of changing the injector constant in the chip. And if you know what size injectors you're putting in then there is no real guesswork.

As for tuning for other mods, thats where having a scan tool comes into play. At part throttle, you can look at the BLM (see https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...&highlight=BLM) for an explanation of what the BLM is) and see how far off your fuel tables are. And as explained in that post, it's simple math to then change the fuel table so that it isn't correcting for that.

Tuning WOT is more of a trial and error thing. It's best to start this once you're part throttle stuff is pretty close so you don't have to keep changing the WOT stuff when you change part throttle. But basically you'll have a table in front of you showing how much extra fuel to inject at WOT and you can move those values around and take it to the track (or g-tech or some other controllable way to see change) and see what it does with different values.

As for the timing curve, tuning it at part throttle is a science into itself that is beyond the scope of this post. At WOT it's just like tuning fuel though. Try different values and see what happens, being careful to monitor for knock.
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Old 08-02-2002, 05:10 AM
  #59  
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Engine: 383CID
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My friend has a Hypertech chip for an 89' Maf TPI. I have a 91' SD TPI. Can I still use this chip as a ZIF and if so do I need to modify it any?
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Old 08-02-2002, 05:14 PM
  #60  
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Originally posted by 914Mula
My friend has a Hypertech chip for an 89' Maf TPI. I have a 91' SD TPI. Can I still use this chip as a ZIF and if so do I need to modify it any?
No. In fact, the eproms are different sizes. Maf cars use 16K eproms while SD cars use 32K. A MAF memcal may as well be from a Ford as far as SD is concerned.
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Old 08-03-2002, 05:52 AM
  #61  
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Very interesting.

Good to put up a post that is not intimidating to novices and that one can speak freely.

I have a few questions that might get me into programming.

#1 eliminating cold start injector, how to.
#2 Do we only look a blm, int and knock counts for ideal tuning on dynojet?
#3 Changing idle speed, my car runs at 800-900 rpm I would think 700-800 is good for me
#4 What reading should IAC stepper counts be at 30 or so? for optimal idle
#5 What can I change to the chip so that idle is a firm number as apposed to surging a little down to 700 up to 900 and back stable.

#6 Why not send diacom reading to Ed Wright (fastchip) and get him to do a chip for $150,- (I'm asking to be shot here but please with the fundamental arguements)

Thanks
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Old 08-06-2002, 02:06 AM
  #62  
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Originally posted by patrick sieben
Very interesting.

Good to put up a post that is not intimidating to novices and that one can speak freely.

I have a few questions that might get me into programming.

#1 eliminating cold start injector, how to.
#2 Do we only look a blm, int and knock counts for ideal tuning on dynojet?
#3 Changing idle speed, my car runs at 800-900 rpm I would think 700-800 is good for me
#4 What reading should IAC stepper counts be at 30 or so? for optimal idle
#5 What can I change to the chip so that idle is a firm number as apposed to surging a little down to 700 up to 900 and back stable.

#6 Why not send diacom reading to Ed Wright (fastchip) and get him to do a chip for $150,- (I'm asking to be shot here but please with the fundamental arguements)

Thanks
1. Use an 89 chip (with VATS turned off) or change to SD.
2. Actually, I'd look for a place that has a WBo2 sensor they can hook up during the run, and use that to tune instead. Its much more accurate than the stock o2.
3. Simple change in the prom. Theres a 'desired idle' table.
4. Varies. I have a car thats happy at 70, so you'll need to play with it.
5. Change the timing and IAC parameters. If its hunting around now, lowering the idle speed may not be a good idea.
6. Ed charges more than $150 (more like $350) and he isn't seeing if the changes he made are working on your car or not. That would be a long and time intensive process to get a decent chip. Do your own, you can keep making improvements until you get bored of it.
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Old 08-06-2002, 12:34 PM
  #63  
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Actually he does charge $350 for the initial chips all others $150,- following that one.

To be fair.

cheers
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Old 08-08-2002, 10:35 AM
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Dumb question.

What if someone was to change thier engine out? Something Like a 383 with a mild cam and a different TPI type intake. How would you know where to start? I don't know what the initial vacuum, fuel needed, air needed, is to be. Should I just find someone with a 383 and have them help me out? Or is there a way for me to learn from what I have read?
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Old 08-08-2002, 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by 88IROC-LT1
Dumb question.

What if someone was to change thier engine out? Something Like a 383 with a mild cam and a different TPI type intake. How would you know where to start? I don't know what the initial vacuum, fuel needed, air needed, is to be. Should I just find someone with a 383 and have them help me out? Or is there a way for me to learn from what I have read?
Not a dumb question, and in fact tha answer is a lot easier than you'd guess.

If you have a MAF car, all you need to do is make sure the injector constant matches the injector you're using. That's it. MAF doesn't care what size engine is behind it. It senses airflow, and injects fuel accordingly.

If you have SD you have 2 numbers to change to get your initial starting point. Injector constant, and cylinder volume constant. SD injects fuel based on how much air it thinks is flowing based on manifold pressure and the cylinder volume.
You'll start with a chip thats from as similar a stock combo as you can find, and with a mild cam and TPI the VE curves will be quite close enough to run and drive with. The VE curve is just a % that tells the ECM how well the cylinders fill at that RPM and manifold pressure. That % then gets multiplied by the cylinder volume and you have airflow (which is what MAF measured directly).

The above is a simplification, but is the short of what you need to know when starting a new combo on a new chip.
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Old 08-08-2002, 01:58 PM
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OK, that makes sense. Thanks
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Old 08-20-2002, 05:47 PM
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ok i have had my scanning tool working for several months now and i am just getting time to "play" around and experiment with the learning process. does anyone on here that knows what the variables i am getting mean, and also has a messenger service that would be able chat with me and possibly clear things up a bit? i have a few logs from when i was driving around town.
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Old 09-02-2002, 01:48 PM
  #68  
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This is a great thread. I too have been in the prom forum and am very intimadated at what I read. I'm a decent mechanic and am more comfortable with rebuilding an engine or trans. (just finished my t5 and it's a dream to drive) I do CNC work in my machine shop so I work on my computer every day, but getting into prom burning is a scary thought to me. Especially after reading the one post about some who supposedly "knew" what he was doing and blew an engine trying to create a good chip. I had a chip burned about 10 years ago by Turbo City in CA. The first one was so bad the car wouldn't make it out of the driveway. The second one was much better, but I feel it can be improved upon.

Can I read the chip that's in the car now and go from there?

Thanks-Dan

Last edited by alloy; 09-02-2002 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 09-02-2002, 03:17 PM
  #69  
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Car: 87 Monte Carlo SS
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Axle/Gears: 9" from 57 ranchero unsure gears.
dan, thats the best way to start, actually about the only way to start otherwise you would have to figure all the tables from scratch and as they say there is no point in reinventing the wheel. if you have a good scan program, then read what your current chip has in it, scan the car when driving and change what you think will help, Im still in the learning stage as well, just finally getting all the stuff to start doing it. it is a bit intimidating but with a little bit of common sense and just taking it one step at a time then you shouldnt have any problems, most the guys on the DIY forum will help out no prob but its better off to try to search any topic you want to know about before asking any questions is what I get from reading a lot of those posts.
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Old 09-02-2002, 03:43 PM
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Monte-ss Since I don't have the stock chip anymore, if I couldn't start by reading this chip, then I wouldn't even consider trying to create a new chip with some kind of baseline to start from. I don't have a scanner or anything like that now. I wish I had a scanner because I have a horrible stumble now and wish I had a scanner to diagnose this. (see my "TPI stubling badly" post) I'm very interesrted in programming my own chips, but I need to fix this stumble first. I don't want to start changing the chip in a car that doesn't run correctly. If someone doesn't come up with an idea on how to fix this, I may have to go and pay someone to scan the car and find this problem. I hate doing this, but I may have to. I just spent the better part of a week's spare time going through my T5 and putting new valve stem seals on, and now I can't drive the car. Very frustrating!! If you have any hints or tips for me about chip buring, please email them to me. Maybe I can help you in return somehow. Thanks-Dan
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Old 09-11-2002, 10:43 AM
  #71  
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my 85 iroc is the first computer controled car I have ever owned
so carb tuneing and timeing issues are kind of second nature to
me however it honestly did not occure to me to tune the prom for the same types of tuneing since i didnt know I hadn't really tried to do anything with the car.
this is very informative
now the main question I have is.

how much power can I gain over stock hp. and tq. with minimal experence on prom burning

another would be is it posssable to have a beginners bored to maintain this open learners forum

thanx you may have now convinced me that onbord computers are not a bad thing
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Old 09-14-2002, 02:58 PM
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Pyro, I like your idea. The prom forum is very informative if you are experienced at prom burning, but for us "newbies" it scares the hell out of me thinking about messing with the chip and possibly losing an engine due to a mistake. A "newbie" prom forum where no question would be considered a "dumb" question would be great. This would keep the simple questions out of the "advanced" forum. And the experienced guys coming into this newbie forum would be the ones willing to take the time to answer basic questions for us. Glenn, one of the moderators in the TPI forum has offered to help me with getting into prom burning. This is very nice of him to offer to do this. If there are a few more people like Glenn that would be willing to help us we would have a great beginners forum for prom burning and modifaction.

Just thinking out loud here, but if web space is a problem for a newbie forum, I have plenty available for something like this. I would guess I have about 200-300 megs of space left of the space I purchased. I have no clue on how to set something like this up, but if someone would help me I'd be happy to try and get something like this going.

Thanks-Dan
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Old 09-18-2002, 09:44 PM
  #73  
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I :hail: you all for starting and keeping this thread alive. Like most other newbies the PROM board is all greek to me. I have a vague idea but certainly not enough knowledge on the subject to undertake burning my own EPROMs.

While on the subject, I would like to know if the 5.7L TPI memcal/prom combo that came hooked up to my 5.0L TPI can be modified to work with optimally with the motor. It's a Hypertech unit, and IIRC, Traxion's article said it's more desirable to have one of these aftermarket chips because they can be reprogrammed without having to unsolder anything like the stock memcal. I tried the prying the PROM off the memcal and it came off without much difficulty. Another problem I am having is that the chip is for an auto trans while mine is a manual now. Low RPM drivability is a real pain with the motor stepping up the idle by itself when it thinks it must downshift. It throws the car into a fit until I press the clutch.

In other words, I would really like to get into PROM programming now that I have my own computer (desktop). If I can do it with the existing chip and $200 worth of chip burning equipment. I'm ready to start right away :rockon:!!!
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Old 10-19-2002, 09:52 PM
  #74  
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I got a questionf or all of you, going from MAF to SD.

I have seen this thread in the PROM boards but the question I wanted to ask wasn't answered in that thread, anyways since I have an 87 and I wanted to go SD, would I only have to get a memcal from an 89-92 setup with SD, or would I have to change the entier ecm???

Also, the only reason I am thinking of going MAF is because I heard burning proms for a maf car is damn near impossible or a lote harder to do, is this true???

Last edited by 5SIZ; 10-19-2002 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 10-28-2002, 12:35 PM
  #75  
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Where to go from here?

Its nice to see a interest taken to help out the newbies. We are numerous and for the most part want to take the time to learn and understand the workings of TPI and burning proms. I removed my old 305 TBI engine back in summer of 2001 and built up a 350 TPI. (Speed density out of a 91 Z28) The engine build had the following.

350 bored .30 over
Sportsman II cylinder heads with 2.02 and 1.60 valves
Competition Cam for modified 350 TPI
Keith Black flat top pistons.
Flowtech headers to 3"exhaust out to a flowmaster 40
Accel external fuel pump (flows at 42psi)
Removed all AIR system.

I read for weeks on all the threads, purchased Eprom burner and AutoGalaxy Scanner, Craig Moates Zif asocket adapter and tunercat with my mask file.
First off I disabled VATS, changed the fan temp turn on/off, and changed for the 30lb injectors I installed.
The car idles real rough and the vacuum is 7- 8. I have let the car sit all summer because I had got to the point where I ran out of things to check and was tired of getting nowhere fast. Where does one go from here? I just would like to get the car running decent.

I posted some of the problems I was having but the car still runs rough. Heck I dont even remember were I left off its been so long.

Sorry for the long reply but you gave me some hope with the post.

Any ideas?

Many thanks,
Chris
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Old 12-04-2002, 12:33 PM
  #76  
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One More Question

I saw this question earlier, but no one has answered it. Can I do this same thing to a different car (90 Thunderbird). I know that it can be done, but will this same software do it, and how do I know what definition file will be needed, or would I need to search for someone to do that specifically for my car.

Thanks for all the info, it's great for the people that want to get into the PROM burning, but are scared to.
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Old 12-28-2002, 10:34 PM
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so how much to have all the stuff to burn and edit a chip for ecm# 1227730?
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Old 01-30-2003, 02:46 PM
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[qoute]Its nice to see a interest taken to help out the newbies. We are numerous and for the most part want to take the time to learn and understand the workings of TPI and burning proms. I removed my old 305 TBI engine back in summer of 2001 and built up a 350 TPI. (Speed density out of a 91 Z28) The engine build had the following.

350 bored .30 over
Sportsman II cylinder heads with 2.02 and 1.60 valves
Competition Cam for modified 350 TPI
Keith Black flat top pistons.
Flowtech headers to 3"exhaust out to a flowmaster 40
Accel external fuel pump (flows at 42psi)
Removed all AIR system.

I read for weeks on all the threads, purchased Eprom burner and AutoGalaxy Scanner, Craig Moates Zif asocket adapter and tunercat with my mask file.
First off I disabled VATS, changed the fan temp turn on/off, and changed for the 30lb injectors I installed.
The car idles real rough and the vacuum is 7- 8. I have let the car sit all summer because I had got to the point where I ran out of things to check and was tired of getting nowhere fast. Where does one go from here? I just would like to get the car running decent.

I posted some of the problems I was having but the car still runs rough. Heck I dont even remember were I left off its been so long.

Sorry for the long reply but you gave me some hope with the post.

Any ideas?

Many thanks,
Chris[/qoute]


Post some more info on our engine combo like compression ratio, cam grind etc.

Couple ?'s

Did you degree your cam? Might be off a little.

What timing tab/balancer did you use? Not sure but I think one if not both are diff on the 305 than the 350.

Has your balancer spun? Try rotating your dist at idle with a vac gauge hooked till you get the highest reading then check yor timing, if grossly over/under what you thought was you baseline then the you got a problem.

Have you done a comp check? You might have a bad head gasket.

Did you check for vac leaks? Try spraying carb cleaner around the manifold and if the idel spead jumps a little you have a vac leak.


You can get a check tdc (top dead center) by buying one of the tdc checker.

Last edited by Fevre; 01-30-2003 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 02-12-2003, 08:18 AM
  #79  
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I was wondering if i have a 90 iroc and my friend has an 85, we can both use the same burner, and program correct? I know the programming process is diffrent, and the chips are diffrent, but would we have to buy seprate burners, fro our specific model year. I also think the BIN would have to be diffrent.
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Old 02-20-2003, 10:30 PM
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Hey, I bit the bullet and just ordered the Pocket Programmer and Tunercat with the $8D definition file. I bought the chips and zif adapter from Craig 6 months ago and will be working with a speed density setup as soon as I get it done.

I understand most of it but have a few questions. For now I need to know which data capture program is better, Moats software or Datamaster? Also do they both use the same cable to hook to the car?

Another question I have is how do you get the bin off the factory prom? If I understand this properly, once I get the bin saved to my hard drive from the factory prom, I open it in Tunercat, fiddle with it, save it back to the hard drive, burn it to one of the chips I got from Craig, place the chip in the zif adapter which gets put in the ECM and start the car.

If I have the concept correct then I am down to buying a laptop, a cable and picking a scanner/capture program.
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Old 02-21-2003, 08:41 AM
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Ok, I have the bin (AUJP) now what laptop software is the best to use? Diacom, Ease or Datamaster?

Last edited by Swapmaster; 02-21-2003 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 03-02-2003, 10:17 PM
  #82  
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Damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My connection to the internet timed out because I spent sooooooooo long reading and rereading eveyrone's posts!........but for those that care........I did learn some things....
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Old 03-05-2003, 12:55 PM
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I just wanted to say that I learned some things too. Very informative information in this post. Some of the terms in the DIY Eprom forum take days to learn before you can read one friggin post all the way through, LOL! This post gave me the confidence to order all of the tuning parts... now we'll see how I do once I download a bin file and start tuning!
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Old 03-07-2003, 03:41 AM
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Car: 86 Trans Am, 88 Formula
Engine: 95LT4, 305TPI
Transmission: T56, T5
I too decided on burning my own proms since I was going from a 305 carbed engine to a Speed Density 305 TPI with cam, full exhaust, 52mm TB, etc....

Unfortunately, I never burned a working chip for my car before the motor died. The version of PP2 software and Windows XP were not compatible. It did a burn and verify but it was a bad burn. What surprised me was that the car ran a [email protected] with a ECM that was in limp home mode. Imagine if the chip was functioning at the time, I might have hit the 13's.
After I found out my problem with the programmer, I pulled the oprom out of the memcal just for the heck of it, and the car started up and ran just the same as it did with the eprom in it.
Burned a good chip and the next day the motor started to knock, but that wasn't related to the bad prom.

If any of you are interested, here is a video of my car a few days after the TPI conversion was completed.
Zephers' 86 Trans Am
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Old 03-10-2003, 12:37 PM
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I am shooting for next weekend to do the SD swap and get rid of my MAF (yeaaaa). I have everything together (tunercat, Pocket programmer, Datamaster with cable, VEMaster and a $199 laptop off of Ebay). Everything is loaded up and ready to go and have test burned the AUJP bin to an AT29C256 with the laptop.

I have studied the tables in the 7730 and have a very good grasp on it all and have read my fair share of articles on the dfi web site and have done many random searches here with oddball quarries on the 7730 ECM and bin editing in general.

Needless to say, I think I am as ready to start as I am going to get.

Question is, what tables other than main fuel and spark do beginners need to be concerned with?
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Old 03-17-2003, 01:45 AM
  #86  
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Anyone ever seen or used anything like this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33597
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Old 03-17-2003, 10:26 AM
  #87  
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Originally posted by 84customZ28
Anyone ever seen or used anything like this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33597
thats basically the equivalent of a hypertech ship, or a jet chip, etc.

except that looks like smeone burned there own custom prom and is selling it on ebay, dont even bother with it.
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Old 03-25-2003, 12:24 PM
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Car: 1987 IROC-Z
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the ARAP

I've been reading the DYI boards for a while now and learning as much as I can about prom burn since I'm just starting up. But I have a question that needs answering.

I had a couple of questions on the ARAP.bin. I heard that the ARAP bin has by far the best MAF table to grace a prom, but the timing on the arap are the devils playground, and I'd be knocking like crazy.

My question is, is it possible to take the MAF tables from the ARAP and just use stock fuel and timing ables from another prom? Or is it harder than just that? What would I have to change to make the ARAP usable.

Has anyone made a hybrid ARAP that can work with a 305 TPI?

And one more thing. Is the ARAP the best or is there another one out there?

thanks a bunch.
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Old 04-07-2003, 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by Ed Maher
You're wasting your money on both. Thje TPS enhancer is useless snake oil, big deal it brings the TPS up faster, that doesn't do anything special in the computer except maybe a little more pump shot (yawn)

As for a junk chip like hypertech or jet, instead buy the stuff to burn your own. You can duplicate what is in those for under $200, and have the potential to keep doing it as you learn more. But even if you just burn one chip you could beat jet, hypercrap, et al.
AMEN TO THAT! I stupidly bought one of those Hypercrap chips when I first swapped in the TPI in my 71 Camaro. I got the STAGE II or off road, (or whatever it's called) chip because I had the 160 thermostat for more performance- ooooooo! (Give me a break). But when I started seriously mofifying my engine, I decided I had better learn how to do my own chips so I could get the tuning right. I didn't want to go back and forth with an aftermarket company trying to get it correct. So after I bought the equipment, I went back and looked at the Hypercrap calibration and found out exactly what Ed said. They hardly did anything except modify the WOT values a little bit. Woop dee doo! And they charge over a hundred dollars for it. They figure that we're all too ignorant to understand this "black-magic" about ECM's, so we'll shell out the $150 or so dollars for something that's only worth about $15. The actual act of burning a chip takes 5 seconds and a $2.99 EPROM from Fry's Electronics (which is where I bought most of the equipment).

It cost me less than $500 to buy the equipment necessary to burn chips on my own. Considering how finely tuned you can get the ECM calibration to match the engine combination, it was worth every penny. It takes a while to learn everything, but again, it's well worth the time.

There's nothing to fear from doing your own tuning. It's an iterative process, so as long as you make small changes at each step (never do anything drastic) it'll be very easy. And if you have a question about calibrating, just post it here. In no time, you'll be a wiz at tuning.
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Old 04-07-2003, 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by Swapmaster
I am shooting for next weekend to do the SD swap and get rid of my MAF (yeaaaa). I have everything together (tunercat, Pocket programmer, Datamaster with cable, VEMaster and a $199 laptop off of Ebay). Everything is loaded up and ready to go and have test burned the AUJP bin to an AT29C256 with the laptop.

I have studied the tables in the 7730 and have a very good grasp on it all and have read my fair share of articles on the dfi web site and have done many random searches here with oddball quarries on the 7730 ECM and bin editing in general.

Needless to say, I think I am as ready to start as I am going to get.

Question is, what tables other than main fuel and spark do beginners need to be concerned with?
You'll want to take a look at the Power Enrichment tables as well. They are the equivalent of an accelerator pump on a carburetor. The values listed are a percentage of the stoicheometric A/F ratio (14.7:1) which is added to that A/F ratio during harder acceleration (when the TPS reaches a voltage value that is also modifyable by you). There are two of these PE tables, one that varies with coolant temperature and one that varies with RPM. For now, simply use the RPM one. Tunercat gives an equation as to how the ECM uses both of them, and if you're up to it, you can go in the help section to find it. However, [u]don't get carried away and add a huge amount[/b]- 1 or maybe 2% additional fuel should help out a little. Remember, with fuel and spark, a little bit can go a long way, especially if you have not seriously modified your engine. It's an iterative process, so simply see what your engine likes.

Like I said, there is a table that controls when the ECM considers you to be at WOT, which then sends you into the Power Enrichment function. It is listed as a series of values of %throttle vs RPM. You can advance or retard the signal to the ECM by playing around with this.

In the constants table, you can adjust the coolant fan on/off temepratures. Everything is in Celsius so you'll need to do some calculating.

F = 9/5 * C + 32
C = 5/9 * (F - 32)

I set mine to come on at 210F with my 195F thermostat. I believe in running my engine hot for good thermal efficiency.

One thing I also didn't like about the stock calibration like is how long it took the ECM to go into closed loop. Since I live in warmer weather, I adjusted that WAY down so it would go into closed loop operation almost immediately. This is also in the constants table. GM broke it up into three categories - engine hot, engine warm, and engine cold. Obviously, the cooler the engine is on start up, the longer it should take to go into close loop.

For better fuel economy on the freeway, I adjusted the Highway fuel A/F ratio to 16:1. For cruising along at light throttle on horizontal ground, this helped out quite a bit. As soon as you have to accelerate though, the ECM will go back into normal operation.

Anyway, try this stuff out for now. Once you get going with this, you'll probably know enough about calibrating to figure out everything your ECM has to offer.

Last edited by ULTM8Z; 04-07-2003 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 05-09-2003, 03:44 PM
  #91  
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Hope this isn't too much OT......

I just want to thank everyone (experts and beginners) for a great thread. :hail:

I too am going to start burning my own chips and I'm in the process of gathering up the hardware and software I'll need.

I'm not so much as intimidated as confused when "slang" is used for describing various aspects of the whole tuning process. Just reading through this thread has been a tremendous help.

Thanks again!
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Old 05-21-2003, 10:01 AM
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Custom PROMs

Q's) Is custom chip burning primarily for fuel injected engines? Does it work better with FI or carbed engines? (or it doesn't matter). I have an 86 SC 305 with the Rochester 4 bbl carb. The engine is not 'heavily' modified and I don't plan on tearing into it too much. I have a Flowmaster and Flowcat exhaust system with a Pertronix Flamethrower coil and a Hypertech Thermomaster chip (which I have seen some improvement with over the stock chip - although not as much as I had hoped for). I plan on installing an Edelbrock dual plane, Edelbrock headers, rebuilding the tranny and rebuilding the rear end with a POSI 3.11. Since I don't have any plans to rip the engine apart, it sounds like custom chip burning would be a good way to optimize my engine's performance and get the most out of the mods I currently have as well as the future mods I have planned for it. Can I stil get into custom chip burning with a carbed engine?

Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with us newbies. It's well appreciated!
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Old 10-13-2003, 03:28 PM
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will the pocket programmer work with my 85 iroc z
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Old 12-18-2003, 01:40 PM
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hey all,

Ive read Tims article(the update link doesnt work?) and all the way through this one. Here is what is stopping me, as of this moment I just have a stock L98 w/ MAF and I would like to get into burning my own chips.

I have a laptop(old P3 800Mhz, XP), I am willing to buy all the equipment needed, but I learn better seeing it done in front of me. The DIY board just scares me and even if i did buy all this equipment, I would be afraid Id screw up my car, lol.

Is there anyone in western Ohio or Ft Wayne, IN area that would be willing to let me sit in on a burning session? I had one guy in town offer to let me sit in, but havent heard from him lately.

I am in the process of building a 400 for my car and would like to start learning now so by the time I get the 400 in, I can get it running. Also what kind of performance gains can realistically be gained on a basically stock L98? If i dont learn how to do this I will end up going back to a carb, and I know you guys dont want that right?? :hail: :hail:

Thanks guys,

Last edited by SweetS10v8; 12-18-2003 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 12-28-2003, 07:49 AM
  #95  
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Car: 1982 CAMARO;
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Ok I have read this thread about 50 times and also the (intro to prom burning) I have a 1985 camaro with a 305 TPI w/MAF The car originaly had a 700r4 But Now Has A T-5 and still has the stock chip Is there any thing to change in the chip that will make a difference since there is a t-5 Now.
Also I purchased a GM goodwrench 230hp 350Long Block. I will be swapping the tpi On to this engine in about 3 months. What equipment do I need to burn chips (i don't want to data log anything yet.) also What chips do I need for a 1985, I think that in 85' the prom just pulls out. And how do I get the right .Bin file and Ecm File for a starting point for a 350 tpi w/t-5

Thanks.

ps I know that i should swap harrness to a 86'-89' because the ecms and ALDL connection and ecm are faster but just want to get it right for now. Ecm and harrness swap will be late next year.
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Old 02-12-2004, 08:53 PM
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ok i hope i read this all abd didnt miss the answer but here goes where can i find the free software to down load . think im going to order everything and give it a shot and when i get good at it i will order the better software thanks
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Old 02-26-2004, 02:24 PM
  #97  
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man,i have a lot of reading to do
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Old 08-23-2004, 01:29 AM
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Re: One More Question

Originally posted by nomind
I saw this question earlier, but no one has answered it. Can I do this same thing to a different car (90 Thunderbird). I know that it can be done, but will this same software do it, and how do I know what definition file will be needed, or would I need to search for someone to do that specifically for my car.

Thanks for all the info, it's great for the people that want to get into the PROM burning, but are scared to.
I've read through this thread and see that no one has answered your question. I don't think it is anti-Ford bias, probably just that nobody here knows about Fords. I think in the case of software, if it is commercial software like Tuner Cat, you should send a question to the manufacturer listing your year and model of car.
You might also check Ford boards, particularly Mustang boards.
Finally, you need "hack files" for the engine in your 90 T'bird. That is also something you need to find out about on a Mustang board.
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Old 09-08-2004, 12:07 AM
  #99  
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Car: TBI CHEVY, TPI 5.0 HO
Engine: 5.7 FIRST hp SMALL BLOCK, BIG BLOCKS!
Transmission: 4L60E
I have been reading about burning chips and a newbie to say the least. It's down to the point that it just makes sense to program chip vs having one programmed to get all the benefits of upgrades to motor and allow more cam options.

Confusion for me comes in the terminology when reading sites like Tuner Cat: http://www.tunercat.com/tnr_desc/do_tc.html

I read the tables and understand the pull down menus, but not sure about tables. The ones where you just take out a check mark to enable or disable are simple, but still terms are also new to me. Maybe this is dumb, but knowing how to change something without knowing what I am changing and how to get the effect I want make me concern. I have not given up, but I am not sure of terms e.g. BPW Const., Target Idle RPM vs Cool, MAP (KAP), VATS, RPM to Bypass WOT Delay are a few examples and why any delays? What effect adding or subtracting from tables does which probally goes along with understanding terms as it's a language in itself that confuses me somewhat.
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Old 09-08-2004, 12:12 AM
  #100  
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Car: TBI CHEVY, TPI 5.0 HO
Engine: 5.7 FIRST hp SMALL BLOCK, BIG BLOCKS!
Transmission: 4L60E
I have been reading about burning chips and a newbie to say the least. It's down to the point that it just makes sense to program chip vs having one programmed to get all the benefits of upgrades done to motor and allow more cam options. Beside custom chips without using lap top and testing run 200-350 dollars that I don't have to throw away.

Confusion for me comes in the terminology when reading sites like Tuner Cat: http://www.tunercat.com/tnr_desc/do_tc.html

I read the tables and understand the pull down menus, but not sure about ECM tables. The ones where you just take out a check mark to enable or disable are simple, but still terms are also new to me. Maybe this is dumb, but knowing how to change something without knowing what I am changing and how to get the effect I want make me concern. I have not given up, but I am not sure of terms e.g. BPW Const., Target Idle RPM vs Cool, MAP (KAP), VATS, RPM to Bypass WOT Delay are a few examples and why any delays? What effects adding or subtracting from tables does which probally goes along with understanding terms as it's a language in itself that confuses me somewhat.
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