If that was possible why would we go to the trouble of doing the welding?

If you have proof of that show it.

The largest we have been able to get the port side (at the head) opening is 1.9 sq.in. with out breaking thru. You need 2.4 or larger to get 320 CFM.

 

have you guys that have used afr heads had a problem with them matching up to the accel manifold? I can look through the port and see that they dont line up right it looks like the manifold is noticable bigger then the head port and that might cause turbulance?

 

It would be nice to see someone take some thinner walled tubing mandrel bend or however they do it and stick it to a flange make things so much easier. Getting to some bolts would be a pain though.

AFR heads have a funky taper to them rather than a straighter traditional vertical wall, unless you port match the head there will be a mismatch nothing that would really hurt any power thouhg. Be real careful if you plan on taking a grinder to them. Unless it was crazy bad Id leave it be.

 

 

Make a template of the intake manifold ports with paper or maybe put some clay in between the manifold and the heads. There's not a whole lot to grind there.

 

yeah it doesnt look that bad in the pic but its extremly noticable and every port is like that also im going to have to pull the head off and get new head gaskets (pretty sure its not good to reuse the head gasket right never been heated up or ran.?)

 

"have you guys that have used afr heads had a problem with them matching up to the accel manifold?"

On my setup with the AFR 195 Comp heads the Accel manifold does not come close to covering the intake port on the AFR head. I am having weld added to the manifold so that I can use the required Felpro 1206 gasket.

 

Sticking the intake gasket in there may make it not appear quite as bad.

If you didnt use a MLS type head gasket dont see why you couldnt reuse it.
Might wanna ask Mamo or Jeremy at AFR about that before tearing it apart Ive heard more than once to leave a situation like that alone...not to say it couldnt be done though. Get their opinion first.

 

thanks 89 and ron i was hoping you would respond i know you have done alot of work with the manifolds talked to jeremy today and he said to clean it up that turbulance could cause me to lose more then 10 + hp easily with turbulance

 

when i do the gasket i see the blue seal

 

Let's see a pic with the gasket.

 

i took it off already

 

I second the welding idea.

 

the gasket was smaller then the head port by a little

 

Smaller than the head port!? You need different gaskets.

 

"the gasket was smaller then the head port by a little"

If you have the AFR 195 Eliminator heads do they not require the Felpro 1205 intake gasket? I cannot see that gasket covering up the intake port on the Eliminator head. In fact the Felpro 1205 comes close to being usable on my Competition heads. In a pinch I could probably make them work with some trimming on my heads.

 

They're 180's, right Don.

 

Oh no if i had the 195 i dont think i would have this problem I have the 180s and i was using the recomended 1256 and it was a littl smaller then the port exits but it works. but on the hand accel manifold is a unique port i think? its a 1204/1256 height with thinner inner walls. The 1256 is almost the same size as the manifold ports just the inner wall of the ports is thinner. I just dont want to come this far and spend this much not to make the best of what i have if needed. It would be a huge pain to clean the ports. Its weird the the gasket fit the head ok and the manifold ok but the manfold doenst line up to the head design.

 

I have not even seen a set of the AFR 180's so I cannot comment. Seen plenty of 195's though.

 

ok thanks I find it kinda wierd that the ports are that far off the accel is a good piece i thought and afr are a good piece i thought. So one would think that 2 good pieces would be a good fit.

 

I had the same experience years ago when Warren Brownfield owned AFR.

They did my big block heads and later I had them do the intake, thinking they did both with the same pattern, I just bolted them on without checking.
Later when removing the manfold I discovered they made the manifold bigger than the head.

That was worth 2 tenth's and 4 MPH when I fixed it, and that was on a car already running low 9's. So yeah, that is not good having the manifold bigger.

I cut the head ports back a little and from then on I had to custom fit the intake gaskets.

 

So it looks like it could cause some damage. Thanks don always helpful The thing is, is that the ports arent to far off in size when comparred to the gaskets just they dont match up when you put them together

 

Why would you accept that on a new motor, with new parts? Rip them off, send them back, and get ones that fit. There is no excuse for that. The big claim with these heads are "out of the box".... well apparently they aren't. I'd return them for something that fit right, maybe get credit and go to a 195, I think you'd be better off with those anyway.

Get new gaskets cheap insurance.

 

And there you have it. If these were any other product CV would be telling you what junk it is.

Send them back, get 195s if that is what is going to fit. It will make a difference, but more importantly, it's not right and no excuse in the world is going to change that.

You paid good money for a part that is suppose to work.

 

If he's going to go through all that work, there's better choices in heads, not even debatable. So much for "OUT OF THE BOX" crap huh?

 

I have a blueprint of the AFR 195 L98 head intake face, with all the measurements. I got it straight from AFR. I compared the measurements to a stock TPI base and the head ports are all off by roughly a 1/4 inch. I'm still in the process of figuring out if this can be corrected by porting the manifold only. Let me know if anybody wants to see the blueprint so they can do some measurements and comparisons of there own.

 

The AFR 195 Eliminator head uses a Felpro 1205 gasket. The AFR 195 Competition head uses a Felpro 1206 gasket. So if you are trying to port match good luck. I would just make sure the manifold seals up good and not try to port match.

 

I see Jsups tampon fuse is still lit.

THose heads match up to NO intake exactly they are their own design so fitting and compensating is part of it; noones fault just the way they are made.
Little inconvenient sure but thats hot rodding, once you stray from stock there always seems to be something that doesnt fit quite right needs tweaking etc. In fact I dont think I have one part on mine that bolted on without having to make some kind of provision except maybe the carb lol

Get a clue before you run your mouth.

You see anyone running around the web bashing your injector co?

dspencer if youre willing to cover ship Ill match those up for free to help out, Im confident you can do it though not much to cover. if you need some rolls etc let me know Ill send them to you gratis

 

"see Jsups tampon fuse is still lit."

That is why I ignore him. His prejudices get in the way of his thinking process.

 

Oh yeah, I know. In fact, it's stated on afr's website "do not gasket match to 1205 gasket". I still think epoxy or weld on Don's intake manifold is the best route. I guess if he wants to pull the heads and sand roll, that's an option too.

 

Corners on the 195 have less of a sharp angle to them in teh corners than the intake would.
It wont make a difference in the way it runs.

If I were the op Id keep the heads and run those 180s he wont be able to wipe the smile off his face, his biggest issue will be traction when he nails it.

Id just use some rolls on the heads if he does anything, dont go in very far either then leave call it a day. Carbides can get you in trouble quick if youre not used to them

 

The 180's flow well. Nothin' like a smaller port and good flow! Throttle response will be nuts! Not to mention trying to keep it in a straight line.

 

LOL here we go. I dont want this to turn into a battle.
Here is my take on this if someone told me that the afr 180s wouldnt line up this bad then i wouldnt have got them. I would have 100% gotten the 195 a wider head port would be perfect for this situation. becuase while both fit head and manfold fit the a 1256 gasket somewhat the heads are off enough in every port to casue major turbulance and is actually making the port it self smaller if you think about it which is the opposite of I was trying to do.

And I will not be welding any more parts on this car. Its completly outta of the question.

 

My tampon fuse does not have an "off" switch.

Because I think it's wrong to modify a brand new part that is supposed to be "out of the box"? That's all I hear from people about these "out of the box, out of the box"....

Who has a prejudice?

If this were any other head other than AFR you guys would be slamming it and telling us what junk it is... You know it. Admit it.

Could this be an intake issue?

 

True, shame it won't be as fast as it could be with more CSA. When that port locks up, it's all over.

But look at the bright side, you can haul some manure...

 

Well, that changes things.

In which case, he was warned. Assuming they knew the application and intake, whoever told him to get those heads should be held responsible. If he picked them on his own, different story. You gotta read the fine print.

I guess they are set up for a 1204.

Good news is AFR has a great reputation for customer service, maybe he can get the 195s and not have to do all this mondificaiton.

 

just got of the phone with jim barth he is who I bought the heads from he was kinda shocked to see how they line up. So he sent afr an email and a picture. he said that is a little to far off

 

Im not using a 1205 gasket and the heads arent set up for a 1205 gasket. The manifold and head use a 1256/1204

 

I hope it isnt a manifold problem ill shoot my self in the foot I will go buy another 1256 gasket and line it up the manifold and take a pic when i get home. I should have did this to begin with. to show you but im almost postive it lines up perfect when i checked it

 

they have good cusotmer service and I am sure they will take care of it.

I remember other manufacturers getting trashed for less by some noticeably silent on this matter.....hmmmmm

 

No argument, I just think dspencer should have been told that is all.

Since when has that stopped anyone on the internet?

Oh yeah....sure I do, clearly you haven't seen some recent exchanges.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...tors-plus.html


I still think he'd be better off in 195s.

 

Whats not out of the box about them?

Lets say they were Edelbrock, Brodix, whatever.

They should have made these to fit a stock intake or a discontinued aftermarket piece. Tunnel ram, one off intake maybe?

Give it a rest Jsup, still spouting your personal agenda and confusing the hell out of people who are simply looking for an answer. Left up to you, they would send every piece back.

Maybe once you actually build a motor, oh wait you havent

As far as my offer to help him out why not, something wrong with that?

Back on topic...Im done with this one.

 

I really know how to get you going huh...

You do know the difference between a parts screwer-er together-er and an engine builder right?

 

you guys are ridculous please lets stay on topic.

 

Keep it on topic guys, and keep the bickering to a minimum PLEASE.

 

I got an email back from jerami at afr and he said it looks to him in the pic that the manifold was ported to a 1205
so I did some mesuring with a digital micrometer. May not be super exact due to lighting, but the manifold looks closer to a 1256 then head. Need to send him another email.
ports measure 1.27x2.02 the
1256 gasket 1.25x2.02
the head mesures 1.26 x2.05

 

Not an intake manifold issue. I have measurements directly from AFR and they are way off compared to a GM TPI base. You can't even port the manifold to match because it would remove nearly all the gasket surface on the left side of the ports of the base (looking at the base upside down).

 

AFR list the 180 head port as 1.230 x 1.990. They list the 195 head at 1.280 x 2.090. So, did you buy the heads new?

If I was porting the intake manifold I would have it somewhat less than the 1.230" x 1.990" dimension for your 180 heads. I would leave the inside wall and the bottom alone. I would work on the outside wall and the top of the port to get the dimension I wanted. I would do some minor clean up on the inside and bottom walls just to square them away.

IMHO the wall between the two ports seem on the narrow side on the intake manifold. Compare that to how wide the wall is between the ports on the AFR head. Looks like one or both ports will have a lip sticking out into the air stream. AFR also uses a 3/8" radius in the corners. Not sure if the ones on the intake manifold are 3/8" radius.

The Accel intake manifold I am working on now has the a very narrow port dividers. Luckily whoever did it favored one side so that makes the fix a little easier. Bottom line is I have to get it welded back up and then reground back to the proper dimension.

 

afr sent me a diagram and the port mesures 1.26x 2.06 let me try and put the file on here. Yes i bought these brand new had to wait almost 7 weeks got them from jim barth outta utah.

 

thanks for the help 89 appriciate the advice.