89BlkIROC

Hello all! Sorry if this has been asked before, but I've searched and searched and can't find anything.
I have an 89 IROC with a stock 350 in it. I am looking at doing the Intake/Cam/Heads and have come across two options: FIRST TPI and TPiS.
My question is this:knowing the TPI isn't good past 5500, does the MiniRam really give good numbers from 6000-7500? I have claims from both FIRST and TPiS that their setups could net me around 450 to the wheels with the proper Cam and Heads. Does this max out the FIRST system? I have seen claims for a lot more on the TPiS. My goal is around 450-500 to the wheels, so they will both fit my goal. Also, I do enjoy the way the TPI system looks, so the FIRST is leading that category. If I decide to make more modifications late (Force Induction or more cubic inches) is there a benefit to either system? I already have exhaust and an EFI system for it, so that is no problem, there.
Any feedback is appreciated!

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

Stock TPI starts petering out at 4500.
Can your short block survive 6000-7500 rpm?
The LTR manifold boosts mid-range torque, which may cause traction issues.

The FIRST is much larger than stock. The oversize runners will flatten the torque peak a little, yet should still pull above 5500.

Intake shouldn't matter much with boost... at least until your are wringing every last HP you can get.

What is your goal with the car/engine? street? strip? daily? How much are you willing to trade one for the other(s)? A cam that will peak at 6500+ probably won't be happy cruising at 35mph and 1500rpm.

89BlkIROC

Right now I want something that is street but still can hold it's own at the track for fun. I am not looking for a competition car. I am leaning towards the FIRST system, but I've also read that the EGR is a lot easier to put on the MiniRam than it is on the FIRST system. Though I currently live in CO, I am from CA originally and do plan on returning, so I would like to keep it smog legal....

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Smog legal i would say first tpi so it atleast looks original. Technically i dont think miniram has a EO or CARB number to be compliant and is visually different enough to arouse suspicion. Even with smog egr on it. May want to visit the socal and nocal subforums here to ask them.

Miniram is the better performer. Hands down. Broader torque curve although less peak trq. Long hp curve to higher rpm.

Depends on the heads and cam but its easy to see 400 whp from a good condition shortblock and miniram with say a AFR 195 head or similar, and a good 230-236 deg cam. That may not pass a sniffer test depending on tune and lsa but it makes steam

Tpi gives a peaky torque curve woth a big rush of torque in the 2800-3400 rpm zone but falls quickly after. Torquey cars are fairly fun in short sprints with good gearing but dont have top end pull. If you ever been in a lt1 car vs L98 bolt on car, you can tell the difference. Both can be quick but they just feel different

I prefer miniram/stealth ram/single plane efi

BadSS

I started on this before Orr posted, it pretty much says the same thing - lol

Neither the MiniRam nor the FIRST are CARB approved. If you’re chasing HP numbers, then any of the long tube runners, including the FIRST isn’t going to be your best bet. With a 350, the MiniRam with a really good set of heads (at least $1500) and decent cam could get you close to your goal of 450rwhp but might peak in the neighborhood of 6800rpm, taking the shift point past 7200 – meaning you’ll need to spend some money on at least a good set of rods for the bottom end. Running less cam to make a little less HP might prevent the need for beefing up the rotating assembly.

In comparison, an out of the box FIRST might only make around 410 rwhp at 5800rpm with a similar cam, but could make as much as 100lb/ft more torque in the 3500-4500rpm band, which would make a huge part throttle difference between the two. Major port and modifications to the effective runner length on the FIRST might get you close to the 450rwhp goal giving up a little torque in the 3000 – 3600 range compared to out-of-the-box FIRST, but if you can’t do the work yourself, it’s more or less cost prohibitive.

With an automatic, the MiniRam would take more stall speed and gear ratio to take full advantage of the power made at a higher RPM, while the FIRST wouldn’t need near the gear ratio or stall speed to run its best ETs. It’s a shame there’s not a good intake in between the two with a similar size and runner length to the LS intake. The MiniRam is really too short and the FIRST without mods is really too long for most true street cars. The Holley StealthRam is probably the best off-the-shelf compromise for you with a good high-rise single plane being the next best choice – especially for better distribution between the cylinders.

If you want to be CARB approved, you’ll need to look at a SuperRam to get anywhere near your naturally aspirated power goal. Boost would make up for the N/A shortfall. If I were you and planning on keeping the car for a long period of time, I’d do a 6.2 LS swap - no more than a cam and headers will get you past the 450rwhp goal and probably wouldn’t cost a whole lot more if you could find a low mileage LS for a decent price.

pancherj

Stock 1990 L98 shortblock, older (but ported) 190cc AFR heads, custom roller cam with 236/242 duration, miniram. I don't think it was anywhere near 450RWHP, but my car went 11.60 at 117 in good air. I would guess more like 400RWHP. Hundreds of passes on that setup before a stock piston let go (I think that cylinder went lean). 7000RPM shift point. NOT CARB legal!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Bout where my 383 was. 400 whp 11.4 at 119 in august air. Afr 195 230 deg cam ported stealth ram

450 whp in a automatic trans car is alot of power. Better off building a 400-427 for that unless you dont mind revving to 7500 in a 383. Need a 210-220 head for that. Not emissions legal and bit rough on the street with a cam like that