customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

guys need a quick answer. i found a ford crown vic driveshaft with the flange attached, i pulled the stock ujoint off my stock 3rd gen axle... i measured the dimensions.

CAP DIA is 1.125"

the flange on the crown vic rear i tore off i checked the u-joint dimensions...

CAP DIA is 1.0625"
overall length is 3.631"

Now i checked the conversion u-joints and the 3R measurements are dead on so i kno its a 3R on the stock DS. But we were wrong with the ford being a 1310... its a 1330... due to the longer overall length at 3.631" vs the 1310s 3.219"

i checked this with my dial caliper and the ford 8.8 rear that i got has the large flange yoke. which is why i believe it takes the 1330 vs the 1310.

Am i wrong?

Atilla the Fun

How did we get from the 1330 to the 1310? Why go weaker? All stock 8.8s left Ford with 1330s. If anything, go to a 1350.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

lol idk how. someone said it was a 1310... for the small flange, i was unaware aat the time if i had a large or small flange. figures that i have the large pinion flange so i guess i needed the 1330.

is the 1350 the same dimensions as the 1330? gotta remember that im putting this all together with my stock GM 2.5" driveshaft since i dont have the money to throw at an aftermarket one yet.

Granny

1310 was pretty common on the cars, but 1330 was also used. Not sure if there is a 3r/1330 conversion joint out there, but there is a 1310 flange yoke that fits the large pinion flange...Spicer# 2-2-1379.

As for going bigger on the u-joints, there is something else to consider...If the parts are bigger than they need to be, you are giving up some performance.

granny

Granny

Another option is to install a small pinion flange, then all you need to buy is a 3r/1310 conversion joint (spicer# 5-3022x).

I've got used small flanges laying around...i'll send you one for free if you choose to go that direction. Probably the cheapest route unless there is a 3r/1330 conversion joint somewhere.

granny

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

yea i just purchased the 1330/3R converson joint from dennysdriveshaft.com

cost me about 26$ for the u-joint which is the service free spicer u-joint ( didnt get the zerk fitting bc they are prone to crack and break)

also picked up a pack of 4 pinion flange bolts since the flange yoke and drivshaft flange yoke mount didnt have the bolts... they cost 9.50$ new.

i havent seen the 3R/1330 ujoints... they are always 1330/3R or 1310/3R u joints. arent they the same 1330/3R or 3R/1330? also im not really worried about stepping it up to a 1350 since im sure the stock steel DS will twist into a million peices before the u-joint goes

Granny

I usually install the u-joint so that the hole for the zerk is in compression as power passes thru it, much less likely to fail.

3r/1330...1330/3r, i doubt there is a difference. Maybe they have different models w/ the zerk hole in a different position depending on which way the power is passing thru. Most likely it's just the manufacturers listing the Spicer # first so that it's easier to orginize the catalog.

granny

Atilla the Fun

I worked at a driveshaft shop, finally did a year as manager before I left. a 1330/3R is the same thing as a 3R/1330. It's all in how you install it. As for an 8.8 with 1310, I still doubt it. I have found 7.5s with 1310s, however. And they do look the same from a distance. The 1310 and 1330 use the same size caps, but the 1330's cross has a longer measurement. The 1350's cross measures the same as the 1330, but the caps are larger. All 6 u-jounts in the original Dodge Vipers were 1350s. Lots of Mustangs are running in the 9s with 8.8 axles, most using 33 spline axles and 1350-series u-joints. A 1350 is heavier than a 1330, but the weight is not enough to make any measurable difference in the performance of the car, until the point where the 1330 explodes. A solid 1330, with no grease passages, is strong enough to get a 3500 pound car, including driver and fuel, to the high 10s in the 1/4 mile, on drag radials with an automatic and a race converter. The 3R is no stronger. If you're gonna build an 8.8 right once, instead of cheap 20 times, go 33 spline, with a 1350 yoke.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

atilla... thanks for the info, i went with the 1330/3R bc i dont have the funds for an aftermarket DS, how hard would it be to make your own driveshaft? lol. i mean making the DS should be simple enough if you get all the parts, trans yoke, ujoints, rear flange yoke etc... and just welding them together. the only thing i can see needing to be done would be to have it balanced.

if i was to go to an aftermarket DS i would def go with the 1350 and then get the 1350 flange to bolt to my ford 8.8

grover85

iTrader: (1)

Your going the right direction. Most drive shaft shops shorten shafts for about 100 bucks including a balance. Have them combined the two. I would not recommend welding it up yourself.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

why wouldnt u weld them together? i mean i kno i can weld it, i did my cage with a TIG. I measured my stocker and its 38" length from the tube welds. but i have no idea where to get the part to weld to the tubes, the DS yokes. Ive priced the slip yoke for the DS to trans, 1350 slip yoke for 700r4=70$. 1350 u joints (2 of them) total 54$ and the 1350 flange for the ford 8.8 is 39$.

thats a total of 163$ but i would still need 3" DOM or moly tubing (dnt want aluminum) and the 2 ends for the DS that are welded to the tube. any idea where to get them? then maybe 50$ for a balance

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

heres sum updated pics of the rear installed. i will have the ujoints in a few days and then install the DS and drive shaft safety loop.

got the trans done but now all i need is a rotating assembly... wats some cheap places to look? i was thinking CNC motorsports but i would need forged pistons and gapless rings.

pics are with the jegster tunnel mount shorty TQ arm, UMI LCARBS, UMI adjustable spherical rod end PHB, reinforced PHB support bar, hand made tubular LCAs, Moser support girdle, moog 5665s 1/2coil cut and removed rubber spacers. reused stainless braided russel line and bent my own stainless 3/16" line to stock ford crown vic 11.5" rotors. posi was rebuilt with carbon fiber clutch packs and ARP main cap studs

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

one more

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

ok guys got some problems. got the u-joint today with the bolts for the flange. i insalled the 3R part on the stock DS, not real problems there. but when i went to install the 1330 part to the flange i had it didnt fit. the DIA of the caps is right, but it seems like the overall length of the caps is too long by a 1/16" which is super annoying. while i was trying to get that extra 1/16" i ended up pushing out the snap ring through the one side which took most of the lip needed to secure the snap ring!!! AUGH! WAT THE CR@PPPP

how is it that i cant compress the u-joint to get the 1/16" needed. i measured the cap distance and it came down to 3.625" which is the 1330. but when i measured the snap ring distance in the flange it came out to 3.5625" thats from the beggining of each snap ring groove. thats where the 1/16" that i need. so basically the flange is 1/16" too short for the 1330 or the 1330 is 1/16" too long for the ford flange.

now i have to replace the flange and i cracked the seal on the new u-joint! am i doing something wrong?

98silvertacrbn

Ok i never post here but i pretty sure this is the u joint you need for your conversion do you know if you stock driveshaft is a 3r if so and your pinion flange adp. is a mustang you need this u joint

98silvertacrbn

Is this what your setup looks like?

98silvertacrbn

I'll go ahead and post my build here for everyone to see
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/gears-...8-8-build.html

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

no its not a mustang flange. its a crown vic. i have a mustang flange that i got from my friends stang and he gave me the entire DS also. the mustang bolt pattern is too small... its the smaller flange. the crown vic used the larger 1330 and the large bolt pattern. the smaller flange has a 2.5" bolt pattern where mine being the larger one has a 3" on center bolt pattern.

i went to dennys driveshaft and just said the hell with it and bought the new large bolt pattern 1330 flange... cost 38$ and looks to be a aftermarket peice.

heres the large bolt pattern
http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/p523..._inch_rea.html

heres the small bolt pattern
http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/p526..._and_8.8_.html

the pic u posted above looks like the small bolt pattern just like the mustang one i have. mine has 1/2" larger bolt pattern due to my pinion flange on the rear.

pic 1 is my 3rd gen DS with the combination U-joint already installed and the stock large bolt flange for the crown vic. sry done with cell phone

2nd pic is the DS the flange came off and the stock DS for the crown vic. i cant believe the crown vic has a 3.5" DS lol its huge compared to our stock 3rd gen one.

98silvertacrbn

This is the u joint you need 3r to 1330 ford http://www.mdsdriveshaft.com/parts/u...cer_5-212x.htm if you go to oreillys the one i listed is there cross referance to the spicer 5-212x

98silvertacrbn

Ok if you look at the specs to the large and small pinion adapter the cap size they are the same just the pinion flange is different you will still need a crossover u joint

98silvertacrbn

Hers some info
Cross Length Bearing Cap Dia. Snap Ring Dim. Lube Fitting Series
3.385"
1.125"
2.556" ISR
Y
3R-S44 GM

3.374"
1.063"
3.622" OSR
Y
1330

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

idk how much of this page you read but i have already purchased the 3R to 1330 crossover U-joint. that is whats in the pic of the DS i just posted. my prob is that the 1330 u joint is 1/16" too long (total cap to cap length) or the stock large bolt flange is 1/16" too short.

i already have the 3R/1330 combo u joint installed on the DS.

the only diff between the small and large bolt flange is the bolt holes that bolt to the pinion flange... they are 1/2" smaller dimensions on the small mustang flange. the u joint u posted is the EXACT one that i have, its a spicer 3R/1330 converson u joint. but for some reason its 1/16" too long for the flange. or the flange is too short. i need the snap rings to be 3.623" apart on the flange when the one i have they are only 3.5625"... which is 1/16" too short.

i already ordered the new flange for the 1330 but im just trying to figure out why it didnt bolt up when i have the right flange and conversion u-joint. the flange i ordered on denny driveshaft looks different compared to the one i have... different machining. and the snap ring placement looks farther in on the dennys one. the stock flange the snap ring placement is all the way on the outside and the only thing that holds the snap ring in place is a small lip thats maybe 1/32" thick... about the thickness of a thread on a 3/8 bolt... its really really weak

98silvertacrbn

Ok but if you have the right u joint it WILL work some how you don't have something right take the caps off the flange and check and see if there is a needle pin under the shaft that would be about the thickness your needing. Do you have a set of dial calipers? if so check the measurements with the ones above to make sure. If you measure the u joint from tip to tip wit the caps on do you get 3.622 that the total width for the ford side what measurement is your u joint?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

yea thats whats confusing me... i checked the measurements with a dial caliper(yes i have one) and the measurements are dead on. Ive also checked to make sure all the needle bearings where in there correct spaces... they stayin in so thats not an issue.

i finally got fed up and took it apart for the 3rd time, i then checkd the distance of the snap ring grooves in the flange... thats when i found them to be 3.5625" apart... so if the 1330 is 3.625" long then thats where my 1/16" is missing... i then checked the u-joint that was on the stock crown vic DS and measured the total length with caps on and it measured out 3.622" and the one i just got the 1330 and it measures 3.630" so its really close. theres no way it can be a 1310 bc its only 3.219" long which means its a 1/3" too small

i found that the stock ford used snap clips that look like the ones found on transmissions and are only about half as thick as the ones that the combination u-joint came with. still tho the flange still measures a 3.5625" so im gona have to say that the old stock ford ujoint must measure the 3.5625". and that im loosing the 1/16" due to the thicker snap rings supplied in the combination u-joint kit

last pic shows a ruler on center showing bolt holes are 3" apart stating its a large bolt configuration

98silvertacrbn

I dont know what to say. Your saying that the old u joint measures 3.622 then i would just install the old clips and see if that works

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

the old clips where destroyed to get them out... they were so rusted and seized i had to peel them out. doesnt matter anymore bc i ruined the flange i was gona use so ill have to wait for the new one to come and see if it all bolts up. thanks for the help

Atilla the Fun

I'm about to join in. I finally have an 8.8, from an '87 Cougar XR7, in the same place as my '82 Camaro. Plus I have the '84 Trans Am in case I need measurements or anything. I have misplaced my yoke. I'm all set to grind the welds holding the brackets to the Camaro's 7.5, maybe this afternoon.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

took me a few hours to grind/cut the welds off the stock rear... you should try to sawzaw as much as u can, grinding /cutoff wheel will take longer. remember the 8.8s axle tubes are larger than the stock 2.5" tubes... ford 8.8s are 3" so you will have to compensate for the extra 1/2" in tube DIA. grinding away the 1/2" or so off the brackets will correct this... i figured this out the hard way... welded the spring perches on and when i installed it my rear springs are cockeyed, basically the springs are pushed out towards the back of the car on an angle. this can be seen on post 162 a few up from this post, in pic 2. the spring is angled.

make sure u got the angles of the stock brackets in relationship to the tq arm mount.

also i found a place that sells the tubing and tube yokes to be welded to make your own DS!!!! its super cheap, about 20-30$ for the tube yokes and 20-30$ for the tubing.... if you were to make your own DS would u make a 3"x.083 DOM or 3"x.120 DOM driveshaft? or would u step it up to a 3.5"x.083 DOM driveshaft? i was thinking the 3"x.120 would be stronger than the 3.5"x.083.... what u think?

Shagwell

Trueing both ends of a driveshaft w/o a decent lathe is next to impossible, and you would still need to have it balanced. I've shortened shafts, but with only doing one end you can put it in place and spin it while scribing it to check/set true.

The mustang 8.8's have smaller axle tubes, similiar in size to our stock 7.5's. Not sure about others, just noting not all are the 3"+ tubes.


For reference, the explorer rear is just over 59.5 wheel-surface to wheel-surface, and is thus right around 5" wider than a stock 2wd S10 rear. - I'm making due with some different wheels for now, but will get another to shorten and put two passengers' side axles in, thus narrowing it to around 56". (I need another for the wife's ranger anyhow).

Atilla the Fun

Shagwell is correct about truing and balancing, I did work at a driveshaft shop for a long time, even managed it for a year. As for what's needed, that somewhat depends on your anticipated torque load, and somewhat depends on the speeds involved. For milder app's, think of driveshaft rpm as being tied to driveshaft diametewr, and torque loading as being tied to wall thickness of the driveshaft tubing. But diameter affects torque capacity also. Look at 18-wheel big rigs, or even cement trucks.
I'm planning on a 4.30:1 axle ratio, and 27.8" tire diameter, (325/50515 drag radials) and the torque loading is difficult to figure without knowing all of the following: race weight (or curb weight for street-only cars) flywheel weight and launch rpm for stick or torque converter stall torque ratio and race stall rpm for automatics, engine torque at launch rpm or race stall rpm, first gear ratio of the trans, axle ratio, and drive tire radius when loaded. In my case, my race stall is my flash stall, as I'm not doing foot-brake racing. My flash stall is 3500 rpm, my torque at 3500 rpm is 728 ft-lbs, my first gear ratio is 2.48181818:1, and my stall torque ratio can go as high as 3.0:1. The race weight will be 3150#, my class minimum weight.
For all that, I can run a 3" x .095", but when I'm not on the dragstrip, I'll be running much shorter tires, shorter than 26", so my driveshaft rpm will be higher, so I'll need 3.5" x at least .083". Since I might try nitrous, either into the intercooler or a smaller dose into the engine, I'm going full-kill: 3.5" x .095" I'll be using solid 1350 joints. They'll probably be the first thing to fail, when using the drag radials. But who knows of 1410 yokes for the 8.8? On the other tires, I'll lose traction before anything can fail.

Shagwell

^^^

As of yet I've had no issues with 1.1x 60fts in a 3000# car with good 1350 joints.

- Great info on driveshafts. That's something I've never personally looked into the techincalities of, as I just call a reputable shop and give them the application and length.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

by truing both ends u mean having the tubes cut perfectly straight right? what if i could have that done. positioning of the tube weld yokes is that important in relationship to one another? i kno about balancing but at usually 50$ thats still cheaper than going aftermarket.

hmm i see what your saying attilla... so i should be looking into the 3"x.120 tubing. figure i weigh around stock weight 3300-3400 with close to 450-500ftlbs before nitrous (prob be a 100-150shot) at the crank. flash stall should be 2900 or so. first gear ratio is 3.06 (700r4) with rear gear of 3.55 with a 26-27" tall tire.

Shagwell

Trueing the ends meaning making sure they're perfectly straight to the tube. If the shaft doesn't run perfectly flat, it will cause vibration/harmonics and kill things. You want the yokes square with each other, meaning the u-joint caps clocked the same direction. - A driveshaft is not a place to cut corners or save money. What you save up front will likely cost you more in the long run.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

ok i understand shagwell... seemed plausable tho and would save a bunch of $$ compared to 3-3.5" DOM tubing DS's out there.

ok i got the new flange for the ford 8.8, its a 1330 flange large bolt pattern, pics are of the new one near the old stocker from the crown vic. the NEW one is a neapco piece which i did not know untill i had it in my hands. but the new one is alot thicker and stronger than the stocker... u can see the snap ring lands on the new and old one... the new one its machined inside the bearing area farther within so its stronger... the stock one is all the way at the edge where it is extremely thin and able to push and strip the flange(which it did)

the new flange bolted right up to the converson u-joint within 5min. no issues wats so ever. something must have been wrong with the stock flange that it was 1/16" too short. mabe the ears of the flange where bent/bowed in from pressing the old u-joint out etc.

MidwestDrivesha

Thanks for linking to our U-joint. Genuine Spicer parts

67chevelleguy

any update on how its doing or completed photos, from your other posts it sounds like its running now

dellman83Z

iTrader: (9)

After reading about this swap, I really want to do this swap. I know where there is a mark vii diff with the disc brake setup that I could get for free. My question is, could you use these http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LA...0/?image=large or something similar and get rid of the torque arm. It would save some time and aid in traction, but what worries me is the driveability of this setup. Has anyone here used these before and if so, how did you like them. My car will be roughly 50/50 track and street next year.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

yes the car is finished. car is one angry son of a BlTCH! lol. i do have a clunk in the rear when i go over a hard bump... and i know what it is. the rear spring perches are off, by off i mean the larger DIA ford 8.8 axle tubes are 3" and the stock 9bolt is prob like 2.5-2.75" so the spring perch was pushed back farther towards the panhard bar lever mount (passenger side) this causes a slight interference with the rear pass side spring and the mount (the bolt that bolts the panhard bar to the mount) so when i go over a bump the spring rubs off the bolt and causes a clunk. Im pretty sure thats the problem. Ive had no issues with the tq arm mount on the rear yet. and i checked pinion angle at ride height and it was 1-2 degrees. so im about good.

the wheels break loose once i get the converter near stall speed (2900 rpms) and right now i cant afford rear rims/tires so im running stock crown vic 16x7's with 225s that suckkkkkk lol. the posi works so i dont peel out anymore around turns like my stock 9bolt and the car is much faster. the 3.55 gears are not an issue with gas mileage, my rpms at 75mph is like 2100 with the converter locked so im happy . and the ford 8.8 disks are ALOT better than the stockers that i had on my 9bolt as well. braking has improved alot! figured my stockers werent working properly bc they are problematic.

ill post some pics now. i havent been able to drive the car the past couple days due to a front lug stud snapped off my new summit racing ultra performance rotors. so im in the process of getting longer ARPs and 3/4" spacers to push the front wheels out to the fenders nicely.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

some more

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

sum more

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

no u cant just use them. You would have to convert to a 4link... which is a bunch of work, someone did something on a 4th gen where he welded a link onto the rear LCAs and welded a bar with rod ends. it was then welded to a bracked on the axle tube. essentially it was a smaller 4link but only using the mounting point of the rear LCA to the body.

heres some pics. guy said they worked good and he got rid of the tq arm.

67chevelleguy

nice, and thanks for the pics I didn't want to hound you for all the angles and such but it is much appreciated, the last time I'd taken a good look at the pictures I don't remember seeing all that gusseting and boxing out on the front of it, don't know if you added later or if it had always been there, but that thing looks legit, that must have been some hours cutting and fitting each piece of that together, the finish looks nice too

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

i have the measurements if you want them... it wasnt that difficult. basically u need to set the stock one up and take the measurements from the "center" of the housing. and then use the on center measurements and make the marks on the ford 8.8 (after brackets have been removed) then transfer over the brackets. personally if i had the material/tools i would have made all new brackets like how moser makes them for his housinngs... i called them to see if they would sell me some and the said NO WAY lol. the most important is to make sure you get the tq arm mount at the correct angle. I set the stock one to 0degrees with my magnetic angle finder (cheap one from harbor freight) then used the side support casting on the pumpkin of the ford 8.8 to find 0 degrees pinion. I then built the bracket around that so the bracket would be at 0 degrees to the pinon. I have to say one of the hardest parts was taking the brackets off the stock one and not ruin'in them so they can still be salvaged for the ford 8.8. building new ones is almost worth it. U will find using a sawzaw is not enough and you will have to get creative.

thanks for compliments. depends when u saw the pics of the mount... i knew i was going to gusset it, for the strength it needed. its ok for my first attempt, i will try again at some point. cutting it out was indeed the worst part... a hand held jig saw cutting 1/4" mild steel is not fun esp making smooth curves. But it came out strong i guess. its gona have to snap the snout off the pumpkin to let go lol. well see if it holds this sat when i take it to the track. prob not gona get enough grip with the crown vic 225-60r16s that are pretty worn to snap it but i got some new ford rims on the way with 315-35r17s on the way

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

heyyy guys, just wanted to let everyone know that i totalled the ford 8.8 i spent so long on converting! slid into a curb bc of salt on the ground after a snow storm, slid into a curb and bent the axle tube, snapped the pass axle like a twig, destroyed my new rim and bent a brand new UMI double rod ended LCA.

BUT DONT WORRY! i already found another donor rear! ford 8.8 outa a 95 grand marquis, with rear disks. I decided to make massive changes to the axle brackets, I decided to make new ones with 5 adjustment holes, and make the panhard bar adjustable as well.

first the carnage!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

new brackets and rear, dnt worry its not going to be orange, its just primer.

LCA brackets are about 1.5" longer than the stock ones with the UMI LCARBS attached. gives u lots of adjustability. holes are drilled with the ARC of the LCA has it gets lower so i dnt have to adjust for length changes. the brackets are much thicker than the stockers, stockers are 1/8" thick and the UMIs are maybe 3/16" except where they double layer it. My brackets are 1/4-5/16" thick.

Im reusing the TQ arm mount! HA this is why i made it a bolt on deal... incase somethiing like this happens.

and ive added adjustability to the panhard bar for some adjustability, works just like the jegster panhard bar relocation bracket. I then supported it with some 1" square steel tubing.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

panhard bar relcation bracket support in this pic, it wasnt added to the bracket in the last pics posted. but it is in this pic.

over view of the rear, LCA brackets are lowwww lol. but i measured and they **** up about the same height as the RIM.

the rear will have 11.5' rear disks, with baer cross drilled and slotted rotors, stock calipers, semi metalic pads, new brake lines. rear is being setup now, reusing the 3.55 gears, and rebuilt carbon fiber clutch pack posi. also reusing the ARP cap studs, new axle bearings, new axle/pinion seals, solid pinion spacer and reusing the moser support girdle.

going to make my own adjustable TQ arm to replace my non adjustable jegster tq arm. reusing the mounting of the tunnel mount of the jegster tq arm, using 1.25x.120 roung tubing, moly threaded adapters, 3/4-16 linkage adjuster, summit teflon 3/4-16 right and left handed rod ends. going to make a bracket that bolts to the stock mount. it will be on the car adjustable.

my earls rear distribution stainless braided brake line decided to snap and they dont make a replacement hose. anyone have an idea to make a universal one work? or im just gona replace it with a stock rubber and say screw it!

any thoughts?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

rear ends done. now im onto making the adjustable TQ arm.

camaronut396

that is sweet man, where is the "buy now" button haha jk. very sweet

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

thanks, it was worth it in my opinion. now all i have to worry about breaking are the 28spline axles lol.

wasnt that hard to do, the tq arm mount is the hardest thing, but the axle tube brackets are much easier when u just fab your own, cuttin the old ones off is a BIOTCH!

camaronut396

ya im trying to decide wether i should do something like this or get a bolt in 9 in. i just broke a bunch of teeth off my 10 bolt last week. only thing is i dont have a good place to weld, so i would need a shop to do it.