Hello Everyone,

This is my first Post. I have recently aquired a 1988 formula in rough shape with a 5.7L 350 V8 in it, and a posi rear end for $700 dollars. I have found another firebird, base model from 1989, for $500 dollars, which is all around, 4X the car the 88 formula is.

The formula doesnt charge the battery, (wiring problem) and it smokes when you start it (valve seals and other problems?).

If the 89 firebird doesnt have a posi, i want to put the posi from the formula into it, and I would also like to put the motor into it as well. My grandparents, however, want me to sell the formula for what I paid for it and look for engines later. What is the educated choice here?

1) How much will it cost to rebuild the 350?

2) Comparing the 5.7L to the weak 2.8L, could I cheaply (under $1K) beef up the 2.8 to be comparable to the 5.7?

3) if I did do this swap, what else would be needed?

thanks!

 

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I would honestly say to drive the 2.8 car around, and fix the 5.7 car. Charging problem sounds easy. Valve seals aren't bad. You could do a compression check on the V8 to get an idea of how each cylinder is. If you want to rebuild the 5.7, go for it; machine shop will be the "most" of the cost (hot-tank cleaning and magnaflux crack-check, install new cam bearings which is tricky (do it wrong, melt your cam) and expensive (needs $200 tool) for a home mech to do, bore/hone just to clean up the cylinders, grind the crank if necessary). Rebuild kits for a v8 are cheaper than a V6 (forged pistons for V8, add $70... forged pistons for our V6, add $300).

Once the v8 is back in and running perfect, take both cars apart, and put the interior/exterior/etc of the 2.8 car onto the 5.7 car.

You'll be much happer.

 

Hello Everyone,

Tom again... thanks for all the posts everyone. I appreciate all your help. Thanks for the idea tom. I do, however, have a dilema... how do I convince my parents and grandparents that the 350 is worth it, and keeping the formula instead of selling it for 700 dollars is worth it? Also, to me, fixing the formula is not an option. I would much rather fix the 89 base firebird and drop the 350 into it becuase it has t-tops, working headlight motors, and both windows roll down! haha. Anyway, thanks for the help anyone... and also... if i keep the 89 base firebird, I can lie to insurance and say it still has a V6 in it, correct? how difficult is it to switch from TBI to TPI? One last question, and then Ill shut up... Which, in your opinion, is more cost effective... keeping the formula and putting those parts into the base, or selling the formula and someday along the line buy a 383 crate motor for the base?

THANKS EVERYONE!

Tom George

 

What you are proposing is VERY difficult. Tom P goes into what is needed to do a v6 to v8 swapin a previous thread. The thread was entiteld "anyone tired about not having a V-8?" (or something like that). I recently helped a co-worker pull the v-8 wiring harness from the engine compartment as he is going through with the swap. Let's just say I won't be putting a v-8 in a v-6 third gen -- EVER. The harness itself is about a mile long and is a bitch to remove much less install correctly. You mentioned that your formula is TBI? Sorry my friend, that's the LO3 305 TBI (base engine for the formula --unless a 5.7 was swapped in previously). If that is the case, a well tuned v6 can beat the TBI v-8's. Going to TPI ftrom TBI is not as involved as a V6-to V-8 swap but still requires removing/replacing the wiring harness (major PITA). My advice would be take a good hard look at both cars. If you want the T-tops and all that the v-6 has then sell the Formula. Formulas will appreciate before a v-6 car will so if you prefer something that others may find desirable/collectible in the future sell the v-6 and use the cash to fix the formula. Hope this helps

 

MD, yeah, I had to pull that same damn harness out when the body shop was welding on my parts car's front subframe- that thing was long as hell. And I'm still not sure it follows the factory routing! Some parts just look damn wrong, like, by the alternator.

Tom George, you can't really keep the t-tops unless you know how to weld, so you're right on that one. But, the headlights can swap over. The doors can swap over. Anything else you want, besides the roof, rear quarter panels, and windsheild will swap over easily. Personally I wouldn't lie to the insurance company, with my luck, I'd have an accident, they'd find out, and then they'd refuse to cover me. The v6 car might be a better recipient for the 383 because the frame might be in better shape, and the car might be less abused in general. Then again, the v6 car might have a frame like mine. :sillylol: Do either cars have the stress cracks on the roof, right above the back of the door windows? Just curious. But, that's not a good measure of anything since that's a common spot for stress cracks to appear.

And good point MD about the L03 motor.. I had a friend with a '91 Formula, and it was also the TBI 305.

 

Hey Tom,

Yes, the formula has stress cracks right near the windows on the roof... Also, I did not mention... the base firebird needs floorboard repairs/replacement... the frame/undercarrage of the formula is SOLID with ****ty interior...

 

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I would advise you to get someone with experience changing engines to do this.I changed a V6 and it was a little tricky positioning it as it was lowered into the engine bay.I can't evan imagine a V8 cuz there like twice the size of a V6.It's kind of funny looking under the hood of a V6 cuz there's that good foot and a half of space that a V8 would fill and it's like okay where's the rest of it?.....Andy

 

I'll let others sort thru your car problems
Your problem is
How do they know V-6 or V-8?
SIMPLE.
It's in the VIN code.
Cars?
Do the V-8 & do it right.
It's a collector car high future dollar potential.
Strip the 6 for parts.
Convince parents?
Hey, I am one!
I have to convince Wife, now!!
Enjoy the rest of the topic.
PS rent space for the stripped stuff, sell leftovers on ebay, recoup money to spend on the correct project.
LONG TIME, LOTS OF ROOM NO SOCIAL LIFE
Your call.

 

I'm thinking this is your basic Genral Motors 350 engine - which they made a GAZILLION of ... "I" would get a short block, aw' heck, get a long block or find one YOU CAN HEAR RUNNING at a local salvage yard - the swapp would be duck soup - If it were CARBURATED! So how are the pollution laws in N.H.
Oh? sorry I asked.

 

actually, if the car is TBI and not TPI it's guarenteed to be that little 305 v8, unless someone's already completed the swap. If you'd like to swap in a 350, you could always pull the complete interior from the v6 bird, any body panels that are needed, and sell the rest for parts (the parts that are left over). Then you can swap a 350 into the formula, TPI is the best setup that was around during the thirdgenerations, but isn't nesecarily the best now. If you're looking for true horsepower you're going to have to remove that TBI unit, and replace it with an incredibly huge carberator. hehe, that'd be fun. And w/o computer control crap you can run increidble lope on the cam, hehe, that'd be fun too. In the end, i think your quickest/cheapest/and easiest bet would definately be to swap what you want from the six cylinder onto the eight cylinder car, then get the v8 running properly. Good luck man, and welcome to the boards.

 

Hey guys, do You think It would be worth my time to save and save and save for a 383 and then get a new trani and rearend from a junkyard for the v6? I really like the t-tops, and I dont think that Ill be parting out the V6 car. The Formula IS a 350 because it DOES currently have a 350 in it. It smokes when you start it, but seems strong. I would obviously need a new wiring harness, even if i used the 350 motor out of the formula because the wiring harness in that is crap. Someone mickeyed it.

So basically I am keeping the V6 car... DO i save money for a 383 already built, or do I build up a 350? Do i just buy a new car?

Thanks

TOM

 

You have got alot of ambition

 

Read what you just said... It is a 350 Formy because it has a 350 in it... Well duh, thats like saying: "thats a bunch of banana's because there are a bunch of bananas there"...

Unless you have proof, reciepts, that say someone swapped in a 350 and rigged the TBI unit (truck motor) on top of it, it's a 305 LO3. Sad, but true...

Basically, you have a good V6, but a beat V8 with a hacked hrness...

I say buy the long (read: LONG) Painless Wiring harness for the motor and swap it into the V6 car... screw the t-tops. Unless they are that important, then sell them both and buy a good t-top V8 car... you will be much happier and better off financially in the end.

Wait on the 383 until later.

 

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Don't kill the Formula if it has a straight frame. Especially if it's a hardtop car. Right now I wish my v6 was power everything with ttops, and my Formula was power nothing AC delete and a hardtop. Hardtop cars are better for handling and power.

 

Okay, it sounds like you already have your mind made up that you want to keep the base bird and eventually put a bigger engine in it. I could try and argue that with you, but since your mind is made up I'm not gonna try. This is what I think you should do. Pull EVERYTHING out of the formy that you are going to need to do the swap, EXCEPT the engine, this includes the tranny. You now have everything you need to do the swap, except an engine. Sell the formy for whatever you can get out of it. Start saving your money. Wait for the money to accumulate, get the tranny rebuilt, and buy a 383 (or whatever engine you want.......it sounded like you wanted a 383 from the previous post). Then do the swap. You will already have everything you need since you pulled it before you sold the formy. I suggest the new engine over the one in the formy now simply because it sounds like the one in the formy might be kind of rough, and plus if you are gonna do a swap you may as well do it right the first time and put a decent amount of power in there rather then an old, tired, underpowered motor. Plus, by getting rid of the formy your parents/grandparents will be happy too. If I were in your shoes this is what I would do.

 

I did not read the rest of the posts.
But before you go through a mess of wires for the charging problem, replace the plugin to the alt. its 3 or 4 wires plugin that goes into the alt.

My car would not charge either it turn out the middle wire had broke off inside. I replace it and it started charging again.

 

as much as I HATE to say this, you'd be better off with the Formula maybe down the road you can get a sunroof, that would be different!