Wtf are you talking about? You're saying a CAI is gonna give you 15+ hp.

Unless you've got a 50% loss through your drivetrain, then 7hp @ the wheels is not near 15hp at the flywheel.

 

He's also not talking about a 60*v6 motor either- He talking about a Japp car with headers on it and comparing the stock (Very restrictive and choking) air intake routing compared to the after martket Cia that unchokes those cars- especially when it has headers to improve outbound flow!

There is nothing wrong with the Camaro air intake system so you will NOT see this kind of gain. only 1-2 hp at most on the semi choked Firebirds and maybe 5 with headers on it- but hardly anyone here has headers so its pointless.

 

I figured the 240sx would be a good one to show, since it has good flow characteristics, and still only got 7hp at the most.

I'd show CAI gains on a 60º V6, but how many of you guys have actually dyno'd your car? :sillylol:

 

ok I have a carbed 84 bird. on all the books even fact manual says it has 105hp. when I put it back on the road after I cpmplete the bod/int. I will get it dynoed. all I will have done to the eng is remove full smog ex cat that means all tubes and pump leaveing the cat. dumped ac and heater. 3.4 y-pipe and a dynomax muffler. and possibly a full as possible msd or accel ingiton and maybe a holley ing modual. bet I'll have about 135.

then I'll do it again when the motor is all rebuilt and trans is done. cause if possible I am gonna put in the th350. when what I wanna do should in accordance with what I've looked into and heard I should have right about 300hp. if not y'all can laugh. if I do y'all can wonder.

 

(laughs) I was thinking the same thing. No way do you get 20 HP from bolting on a cold air intake. No offense, man, but they don't work that way.

I thought the 82-84's had 90 HP stock?

 

ok

82-84 102 @4800 145tq@2400
85-87 135@5100 165tq@3600


And like I said do you have proof it didn't? and if it didn't do anything then why spendthe money to do it? point?

And if your all knowing like people in here seem to think and yes you do have your points like with the tune up but anybody who does anything to their own car should know that. so when you say they had 90 horse.......what motor could it be confused with?

 

Dude, get off yourself!! You will never ever see anywhere close to 20 hp from just a CAI. Especially with our 60* V6 motors. You had better get some better sources than the ones that you have at work.

 

get off myself? and like I said has anybody actually checked? a 20hp gain isn't really noticed. and the exhuast that people notice is mostly the sound that gives a feel yet yes there is a lil noticed improvement. I got 2 3/4 pipe from the cat to a stock style muffle cause of my baby being in the car in the past. I mean you couple feel that. and a torque increase is more noticed. the torque is what turns the wheels.

 

so are you gonna put the V8 inthere or just the th350. I thought the th350 was just the tranny. There is no way in hell you're gonna push 300hp outta one of these little V6'ers, they just can't do it. On the 90-92 camaros and 'birds you need the CAI because it helps give you a little more power, but more importantly, throttle response. The air moves more freely into the engine giving you more umph when you want it, instead of going in slow and restricted. I have the Dual Snorkle TPI setup on my camaro, so i wouldn't really see a gain with it.

 

If you had a 20hp gain...you would most definitly feel it. HP is directly linked with torque, the more Torque you have the more hp and vise versa. I know that someone is gonna bring up the point of r1ce burners not having any torque but having high HP numbers, but remember that they don't make their power until the higher RPMs, about the same place that they make their torque. You're just already moving so you don't feel it as much.

 

ok with the duel what you do is put a smooth pipe in place of the stock rubber ribs. the cut the ducts for the filters and put actual ram intakes behind the grills. all you need is glass or sheet metal to do it. I mean bam ya got ram air on your car.

I am goin with cowl induction.

 

you will never make 300hp off one of these 2.8/3.1's without Nitrous or forced induction. (turbo/supercharger)

PERIOD.

 

ok, but you're still not gonna see 20hp...no way in hell with just a CAI

 

right and you just said why the upgrades aren't felt on our cars. torque is made in the low range but hp in made in the high range that's why it's not really felt.

 

lol, silly armchair racer.

20hp is definatly a noticeable increase.

Hell, you should even be able to feel just a 5 hp increase.

 

if I can't pull at least 280 I'll sell the damn car and buy a mustang. I mean everybody does say they're faster

 

really feel 5hp? did you fel a differance when ya put a k/n?

5hp is like one more fruit loop added to your cerial

 

you will never even make 280.

You wont even break 200 unless you get new heads.

Sad but true.

 

I bet the most you'll ever get out of your car will be like 180...the motor just can't handle anymore without A LOT more upgrades. And besides, it's not the point to have the faster car...most of us just like the f-body better than the Mustangs. Yeah, they're fast, but the 350 just has sooo much more potential, just look at the corvette.

 

we don't really do it for the HP gain, more for the throttle response...same reason you do the TB coolant bypass.

 

K&N's only add horsepower if your engine outflowed the previous stock paper filter, our 2.8's dont even outflow those. So with a K&N filter you could probably only expect maybe 1 or 2 hp increase. (on a stock engine.)

Now... if you had a huge cam, 1.6 rockers and heads, you would probably notice like a 10hp increase over the stock paper filter.

 

besides, if you're making 280 HP outta your V6 f-body, why would you want to sell it and get a mustang??? With that much power you'll already be able to take the 5.0's and plus the fact that you've invested so much time, money and effort into making it fast, why would you want to get rid of it???

 

right when I say 280 to 300 I mean differant heads, raised compression, bored, stroked to the 3.4, lighter crank and rods, roller cam roller rockers lighter moly push rods. edelbrock intake holley carb, costom headers and full high flow exhuast.


I meant sell if I couldn't get that

 

like I said, after you do all that, with the amount of time, money and effort you have put into it, why would you want to get rid of it??? I swear, some poeple are slower than special olympics hurdlers...

 

now now ya shouldn't talk about yourself like that.

and why because it would be too slow. I have a old non egr 350 in my shed but I wanna try to keep it mostly original.

 

with that setup, (i put 2.020/1.73 heads, they dont even make them that big) 10.5:1 compression, headers with mufflers, 800cfm intake, roller lifters, and desktop dyno says you will only be pushing ~260 hp at the FLYWHEEL, not at the rear wheels.

Desktop dyno is not perfect, but it does come close on tried and true engine combo's.

The valve sizes for the heads i put probably arent even made, so you are SOL there.

If you want 300hp, the best way to get it would be forced induction. A turbo setup on a basically stock 2.8 with just a better cam and rockers would be pushing roughly 300hp according to Dyno2000.

Of course, that number would decrease due to parasitic drivetrain loss, but it should still be way more than the Stock 3rd gen 350's.

 

800cfm? what ? way too high so ya got a flood lose there. try 500cfm.....or even 390

 

ok, why don't you just buy a 3.4 out of a 4th gen, then get all the mods rather than try to get your 2.8 bored and stroked??? I think you're confused on what you actually want to do...

 

it won't be exactly a 3.4. I beleive a 3.4 is a 2.8 bored.30 and stroked. I am gonna bore .20. the 3.4's are an aluminum blocks right? or is it just the heads? cause yes that would be easier and I could keep the car on the road. I mean it'll be like another year before I do all that to the motor. I want everything else done first.

 

you obviously do not know what you are talking about.

More CFM = better.

I think you should just give up the idea of building your own engine, you would mess it all up. Just buy a car that has a powerfull engine to begin with.

 

well them if more fuel is better you better run and get the injectors out a 8.1. hurry run you might be able to flood it enough to burn the tires right off.

 

the figure for cfm is engine size (cubic inch not liter) multiplied by the rpm range (what you'll most likely hit even with race) the divided by 1234

and if you think I am nuts go ook it up. or even e-mail holley and let them know your words of wisdom.

 

CFM Stands for Cubic Feet Per Minute.

The higher your intake CFM The better. (why do you think higher cfm carbs cost more?)

Intake CFM has nothing to do with injectors.

Like i said, you have no clue what you are talking about.

 

and cfm has NOTHING to do with the intake idiot. cfm is a rateing for carbs not intakes. you get a 2.8 and run a 800 carb if it runs it'd be a mericle. like I said mail holley and see how rude they are t you in the return mail.

 

where do you think the air that goes into your intake manifold comes from?

it goes THRU your carb, therefor you need a high CFM carb in order to flow more air into your engine.

Why do you think people get bigger throttle bodies for thier cars?

BECAUSE THEY FLOW MORE AIR.

CFM = a way of measuring Air Flow.

You probably cant even change your own engine oil, let alone build and engine.

Please, if you want to learn how to build a performance engine, read this stuff: http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeA...splacement.cfm

 

really so then all carb flow the same fuel.....

 

ya know Inever thought I'd see soooo many idiots in one place people who can sit there and say the mods they do do nothing. what the **** is the point y'all ****in idiots **** me off.....

 

no, the higher the Air flow of the carb, the more fuel it will need to flow. If you didnt flow enought fuel with the air, you would go lean, and your pistons would burn up.

The way a carb works is by mixing the fuel with air. The more air you flow, the more fuel you need to flow too.

Fuel injection works by using electornic injectors to shoot a spray of fuel into the air stream. Fuel injectors are not rated in CFM because they do not flow air, they only shoot fuel into the air stream.

Fuel injection is also better because they can precisely control the ammount of fuel depending on how much air is entering the engine. (The MAF or MAP sensor measures the airflow, and then sends the data to the computer, the computer then tells the injects exactly how long to fire.)

Carbs flow both air AND fuel. The fuel is regulated by fuel jets, which can be changed. Those jets are not rated in CFM because they do not flow air. The only part of the carb that is meaused in CFM are the size of the airflow holes. (forgot the exact name)

 

the mods we do add up and combine.

If you knew how a piston engine worked. (or a basic pump for that matter) you would be able to tell that if you increase the intake flow and leave the exaust the same, you will not benefit much. By upgrading both, you will get much more of a benefit.

for instance. If you put a K&N air filter on a stock engine, you will probably only notice like a 2hp increase, this is because a stock engine usually does not even outflow a crappy basic paper air filter.

If you put a K&N filter on a 600hp 454 Chevy big block with everything upgraded exept the stock air filter, you would probably notice a 20hp+ increase.

This is because a 600hp 454 chevy definatly outflows the stock paper filter, and adding a K&N filter that flows more CFM's than a paper one lets the engine breath like it should.

 

Ya so you **** yourself off then 84brokenheart because you are the only ****in idiot here. You have no idea what you are talking about and maybe you should sell your camaro and go to the dark side of mustang's. Us camaro crowds will be much better off for it. We won't have to deal with people like you who think that a 2.8 will see a 20 hp gain from CAI and all this other stuff that you are claiming.

 

Yer all ******' smokin' crack.

84, the '84 2.8 CARB engine runs 107hp @ 4800rpm, and 145lbs/ft @ 2100 rpm. Don't argue - it does.

5 hp increase (to 112hp) is about a 5-6% increase in power. THAT SHOULD BE NOTICEABLE. Jesus. If you add 5 hp to a 400hp engine, of course you'd barely notice it!

CFM? Cubic feet per minute. ANY fluid can be measured in cfm - air, fuel, oil, freakin' urine and sewage can!

A carb's CFM rating is generally the amount of air that can flow across the venturi before a noticeable pressure loss is found (generally an inch of vacuum). That's why I LOVE Quadrajets - get a late 70s, rated at 800cfm, and it'll feed a 4 cyl, to a 455 Pontiac. Why? The air-valve only allows the amount of air that the engine needs into it.

Nobody on here has modified the V6 engine with the intent purpose of racing. Well, I take that back - AGood2.8 has come the closest that I know of - and he's taking advantage of the few advantages the V6 has over the V8 - weight distribution and such.

a few hp here and there may not amount to much, but eventually they all add up. 300hp from a 60º V6? Not naturally aspirated, you won't. Unless you built a custom billet crank, and roller cam, in the Bow-Tie aluminum block.

If you want a powerful V6, pick a line - either bottle feed the little engine (a couple guys here have 75 shots on their setups) or follow the path least traveled - get in line behind TechSmurf and I, as we see how the 60º responds to boost!

/rant

In all seriousness '84, the only way you'll get even 250hp is to get the Carb'd 2.8 Supercharger setup - S-Series.org 2.8 Carb Performance. Go there. The Edlebrock base + 500 TBI Holley, Fageol Supercharger, and Nitrous works system will net you 300hp - provided the rest of the engine can handle it.

 

I feel better just reading that. Plain and simple...any idiot can understand that. Thank you Doward. Anyway, finally back to the original question: Best bang for the buck is gonna be to go down to the junkyard and pull a 3.4L motor to build and toss in there.

 

I know someone around here that has been banned twice for only being half the ******* this guy is being

 

yup