JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

Anyone seen these Pace Setter Headers?

Pace Setter Headers: PSM-70-1206 - summitracing.com

I was not aware anyone even cared to make headers for the 2.8. I wonder how well these will run or if they will make the car run like crap. Anyone have any experience with these?

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

a few guys here run those headers,i think the general thought about them is that they are pretty good

Firebreed

if only i was able to put them on my 83...

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

I am just curious if they kill any sort of torque my engine might have. I mean it's bad enough I have a 2.8 and I could possibly buy headers for it. I don't want to lower any sort of low end torque I might have.

sogabe

this header needs some emission components removed before installation.

i think EGR assembly and air pump needs to be removed.

only if i werent in stupid emission controlled Cali..

Dale

iTrader: (12)

AGAIN

The egr does NOT have to be removed.

Since I put them on a 91 model, I had to remove my smog pump because they are not designed for my year car.

Also, use the search feature.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

yeah, there was a huge thread on this a while back. they didnt seem to really affect torque, but mine are bolted to a modded 3.4 so i couldnt tell ya what theyll do on a stock 2.8. they will really open up your engines ability to breathe though w/ a catback. worth the buy IMO.

sogabe

ru serious?
thats what my muffler shop told me.. WTF?

damn i already returned that thing..

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Your muffler shops are idiots then.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

if you got them already, you should have seen the EGR mount right on one of the headers man. its a big piece that sticks up on one of the headers on the middle primary.

btw, dont trust a shop w/ a vehicle that isnt well known around shops (ie: honda civic, etc.) or sometimes even then.

coolrimsatleast

By the way, did your center 'crossover' section pipe fit?

sogabe

oh well.. my car is a 91 and it wasnt meant to fit,
so I was gona be faced with some other problem anyways..(i think)

ill keep the headers in mind in the future though

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

Dale, did you ever get pictures of the Pace Setters installed? I was searching previous posts and never saw a final picture. I kept reading that people had problems with the oil filter fitting as well. I use a UPF52 on my car and that is definitely longer and could get in the way.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I use to have pictures posted, but once I found people using my pictures in an un-authorized way, I pulled them. (I take pictures on the side for money)

Only 2 people had problems with the oil filter, 1st was me. I contacted them and informed them of the problem. They claimed to have fixed it, and they were to send me a new set. Never did.

Other person sent theres back before install, got a new set. Nobody else I have heard has had problems.


EGR WILL MOUNT!
I had a 91 with smog pump, I had to remove it. They are designed for 85-90 IIRC.

2_point8_boy

Yeah, they're "designed" for 85-89 camaros and 'birds with 2.8L and an AUTO trans.

Manual trans cars will need to remove the air injection stuff, which is illegal in CA. All we need to do is pick up where Karl left off and get a car to them that has a manual trans and air pump so they know where to weld the bungs for it and it'll be a done deal.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

i also had problems w/ the longer filter fitting, so i went back to the shorter one for the time being. i contacted pacesetter and they said they will send out a new set as soon as they had more made, it never happened and i kinda forgot about it for a while.

madathlon

I am planning on getting the pace setter headers.. sounds like a Oil filter relocator/cooler kit would be a good idea also if there clearence problem..

2_point8_boy

If you use the standard filter and change your oil every 3K miles like you're supposed to, then there isn't an issue.

madathlon

I was planning on the oil cooler anyway.. The Avg summer temp here is 115*F plus.. so I can use all the cooling I can get

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like more trouble than the performance you get. For example do you get more horsepower, torque or better fuel mileage? I can only imagine trying to pull out the 18 year old header bolts on my engine so definitely would see a shop doing it for me.

coolrimsatleast

When I get mine together in the next few weeks I'll post a picture. Right now they're just bolted to the 3.4 with nothing else. Everything to be bolted on now is still being used on the 2.8.

Firebreed

would these headers fit pre 85 camaro's and bird 2.8s? or do they have to have a early 2.8 block with accessory's to properly fit the headers for them?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Now pre 85, why type of egr if any do they have? Pollution ports?

I know on the s10 headers, part of the tranny linkage bolted to the block and cause problems with some headers. May run across that on yours?

they should bolt to the heads fine. It would be other accessorys under the hood.

Firebreed

Its a vacumm controled EGR, The car has the AIR injection system.. when i get a chance, ill take some pics of the driverside/passnager side so you can see what(at least the 83 carbed 2.8l modles look like)

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Alright, will look for them and let you know what I see. May try to duplicate your angles myself of my car.

Firebreed

camera died on me, thats why i havent taken any pictures, as soon as i can buy a new digi camara ill post up (hopefully soon)

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

So did anyone ever figure out if the revised design of the headers allows for clearance of the larger oil filter? I am using the UPF52.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

dale will have to chime in on this one, but last i heard they were going to make them. i contacted them about that problem w/ mine and they said theyd get back to me, never did.

Leo_padakin

killerbv6.com makes headers as well, but there a little more expensive. but nice

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

I had the headers installed today along with a cat back exhaust. I will tell you one thing, the UPF52 filter does NOT fit. The shop put on what looks like a PF47 type filter. I guess Pacesetter has not fixed the oil filter problem. There is maybe 1/8" space between the PF47 style filter that is on now and the header, not too much clearance. Also the shop found a small hole in my Y-pipe from Pacesetter. I'm not too impressed with the hole or the oil filter but I can deal with it. I guess I should not complain much because someone could have not made the headers at all.

By the way does anyone need stock 2.8L headers? I have two that I can send photos of if anyone is interested in them. I rather not throw them away since it is hard to find these parts. If anyone wants them or wants pictures just let me know.

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

I finally had the Pacesetter headers installed about a month or so ago. I just recently went on a long trip and it seems like I lost top end torque. Also I think I lost some fuel mileage. Has anyone else noticed this? If anyone wants photos of the headers installed I can take some just let me know.

Kryppy

Just wanted to say I believe I lost a little torque from these headers also, but more H.P. & I noticed better fuel mileage though. ?!?

DaSkinnyGuy

I just put those headers on my 1992 3.1L with a high flowcat and flowmaster catback. It was worth the money and i even got a deal on everything. I noticed more torque and hp. The only problem is with the older motor parts break when removing the manifolds. Such as the manifold bolts can snap an get stuck in the head and have to be drilled out and tapped. But overall its not the hard of a job if you know what you are doing. Alot easier then putting headers on an $4th gen LT1 or LS1 LOL. Since I put the headers on I am having some minor problems but could just be small issue. The car doesnt like keeping the rpms up and the car stauls.

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

I had a shop put mine on for me since I lacked the time and skill to drill out any manifold bolts. Turns out when they did mine only one broke off. Only problem I had was the heads bolts backing out which my shop fixed at no charge. I had my entire exhaust system replaced when I did it. So I bought a DynoMax catback with mandrel bends. Maybe the 2.5" pipe i have from the cat back is too bid I do not know.

DaSkinnyGuy

The 2.5" pipe is not to big I have the same size

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

Well I found part of the problem. My #5 cylinder has a leak in the header gasket. How in the world does a gasket blow in under 2 months and 1500 miles? The place I had install it thinks it's the gasket's fault and not their installation. I am going to try putting the new gaskets on myself. Anyone have a suggestion for the type of wrenches I need to get into some of these really tight areas under the headers?

DaSkinnyGuy

Ok after the headers where put on did you have the header bolts re tightened after the car had been driven for like 2 days? If not then the bolts got loose and cause your head gaskets to go. The header bolts should be an 11MM wrench. To get the bolts on the bottom you need a stuby wrench its a short one and you just have to figure out which way you need to bring the wrench into to tighten. Ive put my headers on and had to retighten the bolts two times and should be doing my last time in a couple of days.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

as an added insurance, you should also have the heads checked to make sure there is no warpage. that could cause a head gasket to blow that quickly. most places charge about $30 - $40, give or take, a head to pressure test a head, its well worth it in the long run. ive done it w/ every engine ive done, regardless of mileage.

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

I had thought about head warpage which is a possibility. However, I did have to have the bolts retightened after about 2 weeks. The time I drove on the gaskets with loose bolts could have done it too. I am on my way to Sears tonight for some stubby 11mm wrenches. Thanks for the suggestions.

By the way is it true the stock headers did NOT use gaskets? That is what my mechanic said and in my GM parts diagrams it does not show them either.

Kryppy

Stock exhaust manifolds do not use gaskets.

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Kryppy, I thought they didn't. If anyone needs to know a good set of gaskets to order so far these Fel-Pro ones have worked for me. I bought them at Summit, http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku. I attached a picture of them. They are for an 80-86 2.8L motor but they are way better than the gaskets I have found so far.

puntank4200

iTrader: (1)

When I pulled my manifolds I cut the head off all the bolts, then pulled the manifolds straight off. Then used vice grips and pb blaster and got all the studs out without breakage. I used felpro gaskets because even pacesetter told me that the paper gaskets are junk. Also I used stage 8 locking header bolts. Can't wait to hear it when I get my injectors back in.

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

I second that, the paper gaskets are absolute junk. I still have the paper ones on my driver's side. I am just too lazy to replace them.

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

Puntank, where did you get the locking header bolts from? Also which FelPro gaskets did you use? I just changed the gasket on my driver's side and it's still leaking on me.

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

I replaced the header gaskets again. It looks like I had not matched the gaskets with the ports correctly the first time. So I bolted everything up and there still is a leak. The leak is from the catalytic converter to the y-pipe. Would a leak there still making a ticking sound? I am to the point of just throwing on the old stock headers and a stock y-pipe and calling it quits. Either I am having problems with the cheap gaskets Pacesetter included or leaks. If anyone has not bought these things I advise you not to get them. It's not worth the agony.

puntank4200

iTrader: (1)

Yeah same deal here, the paper gaskets suck. I went through 2 of them already. I went on summit and bought the header gaskets listed for our car, they are 1.25" and the headers are 1.50", but i haven't had a leak yet. I bought the stage 8 locking header bolts listed for the 2.8, but the were the wrong size and started cross threading. I reinstalled the stock size bolts with a tiny amount of loctite, because my bolts love to back out.
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How do you tighten your bolts, i can't fit a stubby socket wrench on them so i doing all the tightening with a combo wrench.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Ther was a reply here before that got deleted, and was a good idea.
He used VW type 1 header gaskets for the pacesetters and said they worked phenominal.

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

Puntank, for some I juse used a small ratchet and 11mm socket. For the others that were a pain in the butt I bought a Craftsman socket wrench set, look at the picture I attached. I used an 11mm combo ratcheting wrench to get to the hard to reach ones. Using the 11mm socket wrench I put it in the open end of the wrench. It is kind of hard to explain but it worked for me. I have it down now so I can get both headers loose in about an hour or less.

I have one more ticking sound left and I used some baking soda to pour over the headers to see if there was a leak. If there was one I would have seen the baking soda fly all over. My last idea is my EGR to header connection. The lame paper gasket that PaceSetter gave me disentigrated and I had to fabricate a new one out of an old FelPro header gasket. Since GM never used a gasket here I am thinking I mind as well do the same.

As for those VW header gaskets, does anyone have a part number or a website where I can get them?

coolrimsatleast

Anybody have a problem with their o2 sensor not staying hot enough? Couple people on another site said having the 02 moved back farther like on the pacesetter headers caused or could cause that problem.

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

I don't have that problem with my O2 sensor.