neilb

The transmission is from a GMC safari van, that I swapped the tail stock from my old 2.8v6 700r4. The torque converter is either the Van's converter or a stock camaro V8 converter. I'm no sure. The junkyard I got the trans from said they swapped in the converter from a camaro, but I'm not really sure if I believe them. Right now I can tell it's stall is way too low. The car is very sluggish off the line, and It almost feels like the engine is straining against the converter at a stop light. With some research on the Turbonetics website, the suggested stall is around 2800 with my turbo for a street driven car. Pretty close to the 3000 stall I had in mind.

neilb

I took my car out for a good cruise tonight, and experimented with manually shifting at certain RPM's, and I have come to the conclusion that a trans shift kit is needed much more than the exhaust upgrade this summer. I just can't get a true feeling of the engine's potential. The kit I think I'm going to use is TCI's. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TCI-376000/?rtype=10

It sounds like reading the description, it will certainly help in firming up the shifts, and allow me to really lay into the throttle. Coming in under $100, I think it should make a big bang for the buck. I still plan on getting a new torque converter, but I will wait until the winter when i can pull the engine and trans for some engine bay touchups and cleanups.

I'm also thinking that in the future a new shifter would be a good upgrade. The stock shifter is so stiff I keep missing the 1st-2nd shift, and slamming all the way through to 3rd. That is no good for when I take off to the track.

One nice surprise tonight was breaking the tires loose at a 50kph roll... I didn't think the car had it in it to do that with those huge tires and soft trans! I'm impressed!

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

If you're on a budget, which I always am, try using a stock V6 torque converter. If you're buying a budget one from a parts store, you can get one pretty reasonably priced.

I'm not sure what adapter you're using, but make sure you have the right torque converter snout adapter and spacers on the torque converter. Chevy converters are configured a bit different than Buick ones were, and they need the proper adapter/spacers to make it run right.

You might even see about a stock 4.3 turbo Syclone/Typhoon converter.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Advanced auto has a 2400-RPM stall speed converter for both V6 and V8 700R4 applications, different part numbers of course. Both converters are a tad over one hundred dollars and work very well, way better than stock. This is the converter I told fasteddi about and he went with it, and it is doing well for him at 15-psi. Lemme know if you need a part number, then you would just call your local Advanced Auto and tell them to order you one...

neilb

I'm using a Transadapt adaptor I bought from Jegs. I wasn't aware of any spacers or shims needed on the snout. The adaptor came with the plate, plus washers for the converter/flywheel bolts to space the convert out from the flywheel the same thickness as the plate. It seems to work very well. I'm going to have to check in on the spacer on the snout though. If I didn't run one, would there be any damage or vibrations? As of now there is a very noticable vibration at high speeds, but I'm nearly 100% sure its coming from the driveshaft.

While I'm always on a budget, I'm willing to spend around the $500.00 mark for a decent converter. It seems like one component that takes a real beating. I was checking out the selection from TCI and B&M and a few others. I'm also going to talk to my local performance shop about what they suggest and check out their pricing. Always want to support the local economy.

Like I said earlier, I think I'll be ordering the trans kit later on this month to take care of the sloppy shifts. I'll deal with the converter this winter so the trans will be all freshened up for next spring. That will also give a bit more time to research different converter brands.

I'm thinking that the trans kit will be the last upgrade I will do this summer. I'm going to save my pennies for the converter, exhaust and a MIG welder and tackle that over the long Canadian winter.

neilb

Yeah, I wouldn't mind the part number, just to check it out please. I'm always open to budget parts, if they are of prooven quality. Not sure if there are any Advanced autoparts up here in Canada, but I can cross reference the part number with any one of my suppliers through work.

neilb

Here are some pics of my MAF and Translator setup. I mounted the Translator using that self adeihsive (spelling? lol) Velcro. Easy to remove to change any settings on it, but stays on very secure.

I also repainted my old upper plenum and throttle body black with a few coats of clear. I think the black looks much better.

I changed my PCV setup a bit. I was getting a lot of smoke under boost and had read that if you relocate the PCV into the valve cover from the lower intake, it helps. I bought a small breather and put it inplace of the PCV and ran the PCV to the pass valve cover with a catch can inline. Works great. No more smoke under boost, and my new throttle body looks nice and clean inside still. Should help resist knock a bit aswell.

neilb

some more pics.

neilb

Last one. Don't mind the trailer hitch. It was on the car when I bought it, and it proved to be kinda handy for dragging the car in/out of the garage during the eingine swap. Good solid place to pull from. It will come off when I do the exhaust this winter I think.

neilb

I am also thinking of painting all my coldside turbo piping gloss black. I'm getting really tired of polishing all that aluminum. I would just be afraid that the black would scratch too easily while I'm working on the car. Any thoughts? I'm also looking for one of those filler panels that go between the rad support and the front bumper (in the hood latch area). I want to hide my FMIC from the top, also because polishing it is a real PITA.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

One nice thing about paint, if you scratch it up its just a few shots from the can to put it back on. And you can remove it all and still polish it up later if you change your mind.

Awesome job with the car man.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Very nice engine bay! Props and the turbo shines so well.

haisud

Is there anywhere DIY for making engine wiring harness for 3rd f-body swap? Is non-turbo 3.8 wiring harness same like 3.8 turbo and only ecu software is different? Or can i use my 2.8 v6 wiring harness for swap?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

You should be able to make your own engine harness with the stock 2.8 harness w/MAF setup, albeit you need to so some repinning. The Grand National engine runs off of a MAF sensor just like your 2.8 does, and although the Grand National does in fact use a MAP sensor too, the ECM doesn't see it, as the MAP sensor is only used for the boost gauge. You need both ECM schematics for a good comparison...

Here is the Grand National 7148...;

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I think the problem is that the stock 2.8/3.1 wiring is for batch fire setups. That means all the left bank injectors fire at the same time and then the right bank injectors do it next.

The reason that this is a problem is that each injector does not have its own line going back to the ECM to allow you to re-pin it. The left side and right side injectors are tied together in the engine harness and then just run one wire per side back to the ECM to allow the drivers to ground them and fire them.

The Buick turbo setup uses sequential fuel injection which makes every injector have its own driver in the ECM, which in turn allows the computer to control each injector individually.

So at a minimum, it looks like you will need to add an individual wire from the ECM to each injector to make it run at all with an SFI ECM.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

That would be part of the process though, not just repinning of course, but to follow the diagram and cut, splice and add wire where necessary. The only other option would be to buy a turbo buick injector harness itself, Click Here, but its much easier to make your own IMO, he just needed that diagram above to follow and compare with his original schematic...

Edit: Neil, sorry for the hijack. Haisud, try and start your own thread regarding this swap...

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

This isn't correct, the 2.8/3.1 is batch fire, it fires all 6 injectors at the same time.

haisud

And thats good for 3.8 sfi swap?
And can i get bigger picture of that diagram anywhere?

neilb

Thank you, My goal is to have my car looking, and performing as awesome as this guy's.



It would be easy to touh up the paint, that is true. I'm thinking about it more. I painted a test piece to see what it would look like and I kinda like it.

neilb

No worries on the hijack, helping others out is why I've been posting all this.

While making a 2.8l harness work would be possible, I have to say just modifying the GN harness was fairly simple to do. Caspers Electronics can also make a custom harness for your car made to your specs.... Price is close to $800 though. I had the GN harness modified in a few days using the factory 2.8l bulk head connector. I just laid out the wiring diagrams for each car and found the corrosponding wire from one connector to the other, and swapped it over. Time consuming and sometimes confusing. There were a few wires that had no corosponding wire on the 2.8l harness. So I drilled a hole in the firewall, used a grommet, and passed them through and spliced them into some blank spots in the fuse panel. Worked out fine. I still have all the wiring diagrams... I think, I'll try to scan them and post, with some of the notes I made. One good source for Buick diagrams is Gbodyparts.com. they have a tech manual for the Gn's with all the diagrams, and tech info you would need. A hayes manual also came in handy for the 2.8l wiring.

neilb

If you were to modify the 2.8l harness to work, you would also have to add in connectors/circuits for the Wastegate solenoid, Cam sensor, and Ignition module. The oil pressure circuit is also different, along with the MAP sensor (which like stated above, isn't seen by the ECM, just used for boost display on the GN digital dashes).

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

What did you decide on the Tq converter?? Im stuck at a spot where its either swap in a different tranny with a converter. Or find a very $$ one somewhere that will work in my application. My 100 dollar special Tq convert is giving up and pushing throug 1st gear into 2nd badly. It worked well for about 4 months though of track time and massive datalogging.

haisud

What city MPG you get with that engine?

neilb

I'm still undecided on the torque converter. I'm still searching. I've never checked my fuel mileage.... But its not good. But that's also not why I built this engine.

haisud

why you use that motor if you dont care fuel economy, just buy big block or LSx engine and modified that

neilb

Because these engines can equal or out power the lsx engines, its unique, and different than most camaro on the road. I would much rather have a unique powerfull car than another cookie cutter streetmachine.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Im sure he gets ok Mpg's if he wanted to with a tune.

Mine gets about 25 Mpg's on the highway. The city driving is shakey as its hard not to wana beat on here. I run in open loop only and really it isnt tuned for gas milage. Im sure that with some time and tuning his turboed car and mine as well could knock off 30mpgs on the highway "if" we wanted that. I really don't care about Mpgs though. I chose to turbo my engine because it was what was in my car. Much easier then a engine swap in my mind. And in his case he has a 3.8L which I would pick over a V8 anyday. I can only dream of having a 3.8L under my hood. One badda$$ engine to boost.

Its rare to see V6's making the power of a V8 if not more. Thats why I love Turboed V6s in camaros!!!

neilb

My thoughts exactly!

haisud

can i use buick 3800 supercharger on v6 3.8 camaro engine?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Because to be in the 9's or 10's with a N/A engine, they have to be radical. Which makes them difficult to drive on the street. High idle RPM, lumpy cams, snorting fumes, not a street car you can drive to church.

Bolt a turbo on and you now have a car that can be driven to church on Sunday and rip off 9/10 second passes with ease.

RBob.

neilb

Small Update:

I have made a decision. The car is going back to stock....other than the 3.8l of course. After looking at various sport coupes I have realized how much I miss the way the car used to look.

I have located a stock flat hood on Kijiji.com being sold locally for only $80.00. It looks very clean, and rust free. I'm still waiting a reply from the seller. I also have figured out a way to reroute the turbo tubing to clear the stock hood (although I won't do the changes until I have the new hood on). The new planned routing will also eliminate 2 90* bends, so it may actually improve air flow. I still have the factory steel ralley wheels. I have striped off the trim rings and the small triangle pieces to get them ready to be media blasted and repainted. I have postponed my plans for the 4" exhaust for now, as it seems there is some body work in the floors that needs the be fixed. My current muffler had started to rot, and I really hated the huge tail pipes sticking out past the bumper, So i installed a dynomax muffler and 2.5" tails that tuck up very nicely. Looks much better, although I'm not overly impressed with the sound of the dynomax.

So the plan for the winter is this:

1: install new hood
2: reroute turbo intake tubing
3: refinish/paint ralley rims
4: install trans shift kit and torque converter
5: purchase a mig welder and repair the floor rot. (if the funds and wife will allow)
6: install new tires (215/65/15 fronts, 255/60/15 rears)
7: pull engine and reseal some gaskets and repaint the engine bay.


So now I have a 1 year old Goodmark 5" steel cowl hood for sale, 4 z28 rims for sale, and possibly 2 weld racing rims with mickey thompson tires, (not sure if I really want to sell them yet)

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Where are you located.

neilb

Pics of my new exhaust, stripped ralley rims, and my mickeys/welds.

neilb

I live in Orillia Ontario Canada.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Ah man, thats a long ways from me, i was interested in the hood.

neilb

Yeah for sure, and items that big are a pain to ship. I will be posting the stuff for sale locally on kijiji.com and see what I get.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I love the OEM look for the exterior and interior as well.

When I run 15 inch wheels, I always run 235/60-15. It was a factory Z28 size and the speedometer stays correct with no tire rubbing at all four corners.

Your car is gonna be even more of a sleeper than before! I love your car!

neilb

Thanks! How's the parts gathering going for your swap?

I did think about the 235's for the rear, but I want something with a wider tread. These cars are so wide looking from the rear that a wider tire just looks right. I love the sleeper look to cars, and thats partly why I bought a sports coupe in the first place. I've even been toying with the idea of making my car into a "copo" type camaro of sorts. Bare bones, steel rims painted body color, suspension/engine/exhaust upgrades.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I'd say you already "COPO"-ed your car, hehehehe. That VIN 7 engine by Buick is a nice one.

The front is my main point about the 235's. The car handles much better with them than the 215's or 225's. I am really hard on cars and I don't like skinny tires in the front, it doesn't feel right when hitting curves or turns hard.

I run 245/50ZR16 on my Firebird and it is fabulous. No back end kicking out and no other hijinks when I am driving it aggressively. As far as parts gathering, I've been getting the rest of the car ready first, and the turbo engine will be the last thing.

I got the stock engine running well enough. I've got my G-Force upgraded trans ready to go and in a crate right now. I just picked up an 84 Trans Am rear end housing so that I can assemble a second rear end and not take my car off the road. I got a zexel torsen posi from an 02 SS with 3.42 gears and low miles, I got a new set of 28 spline 3rd gen axle shafts from Summit in a kit. That's the next phase of the project.

I put the rear springs and both sway bars from the Trans Am on the car and its personality completely changed. I already have a set of GN turbo headers and the wastegate/down-pipe adapter that I need to use a stock or stock replacement upgrade GN turbo. My next dilemma is deciding what block and heads to run. I am actually toying with using a series 1 3800 because the 8 bolt flywheel for my stick transmission can be had at a reasonable price. I guess I'm waiting for the right deal to come along...

neilb

WOW! Sounds like your really on your way! A new rear end would be a great find for me as well, as mine is starting to leak around the axle tubes at the center section. This weekend was the big Barrie Automotive Flea Market, Its about 10 square acres of auto parts of every kind and description. I looked over the entire place twice and all I could find for 3rd gens were 2 85 front bumpers, a few sets of wheels, and 3 rotted out parts cars. I was really hoping to find a hood, tires, and a rear end, but no luck. It seems the years I go and don't bring any money, I find everything I could ever want, and when I do bring lots of cash, I find nothing! Oh well, better luck next year.

After being disappointed at the flea market, I decided to get something done, so I started to clean up my ralley rims and trim rings.

I scraped off the loose paint and rust from the wheels, and washed the trim rings. Scotch brite pads work great for cleaning rust stains and dirt off the stainless steel trim rings!

neilb

Heres the trim rings after being cleaned. I'm hoping to drop off the rims at the body shop for media blasting tomorrow on my lunch break.

neilb

I dropped off my rims to a local machine shop for media blasting today. Apparently they are in pretty bad shape according to the shop, and they are keeping them for a week to soak in the hot tank before blasting. I was surprised that they thought they were so bad. They were crusty, but I didn't think they were too bad. Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing how they turn out. I'm thinking that I will paint them the same colour as the car, and the triangle trim peices black.

Still no word from the seller of the hood. Either it's sold and he's too lazy to let me know, or he never checks his email. May have to call later this week.

34blazer

just curious, what are your NB O2 readings at WOT?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

He runs a NB only?

project89

iTrader: (1)

i never had a wideband in my car till it went low13's,high 12's , i did all my original tunning with a nb 02

34blazer

reason i ask is, a friend of mine out here has the ttype and just ran it at the track. he only uses a NBO2 and his voltage readings are in the mid .700's. hes running 12.2's with the TA-52 and turbo tweak chip. also 112 octane gas. thats way too lean, just wanted to see what other buick guys are reading with the NB so i can tell him what to shoot for.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

shoot for 850mv when shes hot. And more then the 850mv and its basically a guessing game on where its at. I do think that 700 is lean. Trust the plugs i guess after a run shut her down immidiatly.

neilb

I'm usually around the 800-850 mark, on my NB gauge. A wide band is a for sure upgrade when I start to take it to the track.

neilb

I got my rims back from the machine shop last week, and to my surprise, they only blasted one! They told me that their blasting media was too fine to tackle the tough rust on those rims. So looks like I have to find another shop to give them a go. I'll give a body shop a try next.

34blazer

and that puts the afr in the 12:1 range?