92camarorv6

no turbo what can i do to make it faster

2.8RS

iTrader: (5)

Use the search function there are alot of geat threads on this subject. Look up firstfirebird's theread What's a Hybrid or a really strong build. Other than thatdo intake, exhaust, cam, 3.4 swap, head/intake work.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

This will work, should be faster than my turbo on the 3.1 ....

http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t...ild/?start=all

SageMoonblade

If you are really interested in building NA power with no NO2 your best bet is to send the block, heads, crank, rods, pistons, and cam all out to a machine shop and have the block and heads gone through, hot tanked and cleaned and decked so you will have about 10.5:1 compression (you may want to consider swapping to at least hypertunetic pistons at this point) also have you heads rebuilt with high RPM springs and roller tipped rockers. Next have your pistons, rods, and crank balanced for about 8500 to 9000 rpm, remove your rev limiter, set your new reline at 8000 rpm and revamp your rear gears.

In short you will have a premium fuel engine that will sound no better than any import NA six cylinder but it will make more power.

backgammon7

lsd

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

You don't need to rev it that high get power from the 60*. 6500rpm is enough to get 300bhp or more with FWD heads.

10.5:1 can run on pump gas with iron heads, I have seen as much as 11.5:1SCR and 11psi boost with iron heads and premium pump gas (93 octane). Aluminum heads are much more resistant to detonation.

If you are going to go into the tune, and have some fabrication skills, 3400 heads on a 3.1 with 3.1 pistons makes about an 11.8:1SCR, This with a nice cam, headers, and proper tune should make a nice engine.

The engine I'm building is 11.5:1scr, will run on pump gas, and will eventuelly be turbo'd with high SCR.

I have seen a car making 340hp with a 3.4 block, 3400 heads, and individual TB's. 14:1scr, but ran on 100+ octane - and it doesn't see over 6500rpm's.


In fact there is a member of this board that made over 290hp/270tq at the wheels with a 60*v6...

http://media.putfile.com/140510096

He's now mid 13's, and it sounds really good to me, unlike most "imports"...

http://media.putfile.com/660-True-Duals

project89

iTrader: (1)

whats all done to the car in the first????

and the second vid that cars running so dam rich thats why it sounds the way it does,it will change once its leaned out to were it should be, **** look at my antilag video car sounds dead the ame when i dump 35% mor efuel ontop of the motor at idle

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Ya really think so <wipes the black stains from the exhaust smoke from his face>....?

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Open loop :P

Who cares if it smokes a little at startup, still made over 300 to the crank N/A.

That's SuperDave's car (purple82ta here), both videos.

There's more...

http://media.putfile.com/More-3500Z

My cam is only slightly smaller than his, both of us have over 300* advertised duration 0.0

project89

iTrader: (1)

lol smokes a lil????? that thing loads up so bad everytime he hits the throttle

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Sorry, it's 273.3whp/257.25wtq under 6000rpm.



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For some reason the 3500 heads like to run rich, look at the AFR's on the dyno sheet at pk hp.

project89

iTrader: (1)

that thing needs a tune baddddddddddddddddd

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Not bad John, that thing's got my '91 Formula beat (n/a), that's for sure....

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

That's last year's info. First time on the dyno

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

My slips should look like that in a couple months

Everyone tells me 14 flat with everything else stock and 300bhp, we'll see.

The goal is 250whp N/A and 500whp with boost. I have another block (3.1)that's getting the hybrid treatment and twin turbo's for testing first (9.6scr), then the kit will go on the 3.4/3500 with 11.5:1scr.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

lol, everyone's quick to bash the tune.


it took about an hour of working over the main VE table to fix that. It dosen't do it anymore, i've been daily driving it the last few weeks



as for the dyno sheets, the shop's wideband was reading a little richer then mine was.. and i trust mine. Currently in PE it runs around a 12.9 AFR up to 7K RPM. I'm working on the spark advance table currently also a few small bugs here and there.

It will see the dyno again in July, and the track a few times before then.. this time with slicks


Best run last year was a 13.73 @ 102.2 spinning the drag radials into 3rd.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Nobody's bashing the tune, besides, w/110 LSA I'd expect the initial tuning to be an absolute bear....

project89

iTrader: (1)

lol i hope not i mean **** when i used the antilag last year i would have to swap out the plugs every 4 passes cause they would be fuel fouled,and the car didnt smoke half that bad with the antilag.i knwo u had to have gone threw a few sets of plugs when it was running that rich

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

im using the stock Iridiums from GM, they hold up very well.

project89

iTrader: (1)

hmmm i might have to try some of them, dam delcos last me about 4 passes if i use the antilag,though i havent been using it this year so i havent had an issue yet

btw whats wieght on that thing with driver?

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

the iridiums are self cleaning which i'm sure helps out.. i have pulled them and cleaned the tips with my sandblaster a few times just to remove the extra carbon.. the bastards are $6/each though.. i put a set in my truck a few weeks ago.


with driver the car should be around 2800.. i'd love to get that down a little lower. it's still in mostly street trim minus all the carpet padding, A/C equipment and other random junk...

project89

iTrader: (1)

dam 500 pounds lighter then the maro, i cant for the life of me figure out were all the extra weight came from i had the car light as **** last year,though i did end up putting the passenger seat back in and some other saftey stuff,but i just dont see that stuff adding upto 3-400 pounds that the car is heavier then last year

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Basically what we're getting at is fwd heads & a hot cam is the way to go. You don't need to get crazy with the compression either, when I finish my build I'll be making 300hp @ 6,000rpm with 9.3 c/r. What makes it possible is how well 3500 heads flow.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

How did you come up with 9.3?

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

Mine's probably somewhere between 9.8 and 9.5.. i did remove some material from the combustion chambers when i smoothed and polished them.

last year i ran it at about 10.4:1 with thinner headgaskets, had a little piston to valve contact problem though and went back to stock.



the 3400 and 3500 heads flow very well stock, the key is getting a cam that's above .500 lift and don't slack on the duration. 288/293 here with 70.45 degrees of overlap. Idles between 8 and 10" of vacuum, around .5-.6 map @ 1200 RPM.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

3500 heads, 3400 pistons, 3.4 head gaskets. Although finding anything for this combo at a decent price is getting a bit frustrating. Found a wrecked malibu w/ 3500 but I can't get the heads or crank without buying the whole damn engine (guy that owns the yard is a jerk anyway) and the cheapest I've found the rings is $120 so far. I can get dohc rings for $50 -wtf?

project89

iTrader: (1)

ur not gonan find that stuff for a decent price,any of that stuff is going to a late model wreckign yard,usuually most of those places are closed to the public,or are insurance yards and only sell the entire car,not parts,it will be another few years before u can just walk into a reg boneyard and get the stuff,and even then it wont be cheap

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I expected as much for the 3500 parts, but the 3400 rings suprised me.

project89

iTrader: (1)

my plasma moly rings for the 3.1 werent even that much

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Nope, $120 for rings is all you're going to get. Mine were in good enough shape after I cleaned them they got re-used. The DOHC rings was for a complete set, or $50 per piston?

Like SuperDave mentioned, you might not want to use the 3.4 gaskets. The .060" gaskets have a perfect quench of .040" with the 3400 pistons. 3400 pistons, heads, and gaskets should be about 9.6:1 IIRC.

I told you about the engines, lol. We have to buy them complete as well and sell off the extra parts. The top ends and cranks go fast, I sat on the last block for a little while, but that's going in a local's Sprint car. He's the one who has a 300+ hp 2.5l iron duke with a single V8 head modified to fit. his last engine was a 3.4/3400 making 340hp that I mentioned earlier in the thread.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

For 3.4's it's different. Sealed Power moly rings are $140 for the entire engine and for standards they are $120, from GM they are $30 for each piston.

You shouldn't use moly rings without a fresh bore.

project89

iTrader: (1)

these arent the same as moly rings i forget the diff though, and u shouldnt use any new rings without a fresh hone atleast

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I understand that, but the moly rings are supposed to have a tighter tolerance on the bore, both in size and concentricity.

project89

iTrader: (1)

thats why u check the bore for being out of round

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I found doch rings for $50/set. If my measurements are right the 3400 pistons & stock crank have close to 0 deck clearance, which makes the 3.4 gaskets a good choice.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

3400 piston protrude .020" over the deck. 3.4 pistons are .0095" over.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

3.307" stroke, 5.7" rods, 1.47" compression height, 8.818 deck height = .0055" above deck. I'll remeasure my pistons but I'm pretty sure that's accurate.

92camarorv6

what i on school computers i cant see the pix i would love to see tham pleas and help me git up to speed on the 3.5s and all im only 17 so help me out

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

What pistons are you thinking of using? 5.7" rods work on the 60*V6 unless you try to use 2.8 pistons and 987 crank.

92camarorv6

what ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
ok help

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

Help?

LINK
LINK
LINK
The search function is a great starter. It took me 45 sec to find these links...there is probably more.
Unless you can remove the stock engine and drop in a 3.4 this probably isnt the route for you.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

all three are my threads. Stroking the 60* is just a theory for now

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

yeah. It seems as though you are the only one attempting this in a 3rd Gen...so the info will probubly come from you or SuperDave
I just picked the first 3 threads I knew had 3500 info in it.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I'll pm you, let's not cloud up this thread too much.

92camarorv6

ok thats cool but i am the fastes v6 camaro in de that i know of so dont say im not in to its i can bet out srt-4s and 5.0s i just ask stuff that i dont know about and im looking for the grat book that smoky unit did

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

Whats all done to your car?
Did you say that you are the fastest v6 Camaro in Delaware?
SRT-4s? 5.0 (F-Body or Mustang)? Probubly just bad drivers...or they didnt know you were racing. The SRT-4 can do the 1/4 in 14sec. The 5.0 TBI F-Body...mabye, as it wasnt much faster than the V6.


^^And I dont know what that means

92camarorv6

Mustang i have a cam and intake

noahTHEpurdy

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, but I really doubt that your car is as fast as you say with just a cam and "intake".

92camarorv6

it gits up and gos i cant run with my dads gto but thas a 6.0 vs a 3.4

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

92s had the 3.1L. The 3.4 came in the 93-95 F-Body's.

The 302 (4.9L) Stang was rated around 140hp//157hp//175hp//210hp...So I guess its possible if you were up against an old slow one.