Ok umm you cant put the return in the drain plug because the oil wont go into the pan it will just sit in the line you need to mount the return above oil level in the pan thats why you need to punch and weld or you can do what im planning to do which would be buy a 100 dollar shurflo 8000 pump and have it pump the oil back up to the oil fill cap. You dont need the water lines at all daves turbo dosent even have but you can use the lines from the throttle body if you reli want to. Take pics of everything when youre done. I thoink you can actually get krinkle bent exhaust pipeing at pep boys or autozone i know ive seen it before.
The hardest part is routing the exhaust and installing injectors.

 

still trying to ID all the plugs and ports... lol

 

 

from what i can see on this pic that looks like your oil input the oil return is on the opposite side of the in.

 

the blow off valve just hooks into the intake pipe after the intercooler close to the Tb and you can hook that hose up to any of your vacume hoses i think

 

hm... somebody told me they had a supercharger draining that way... i thought it would be ok if i had the turbo a little above the drain(gravity) and also since i have pressure feeding in one-way i figure the oil can't just stay there, it's gotta go somewhere, right?

nixon, if that's my oil in, how do i go about connecting it? i for sure thought i'd have a pressure fitting since the line was so small, but should i just a piece of flat metal and drill it for the 3/16 line and two holes for the mounting bolts?

 

the 2 lines on the top are water

the one on the side with the 2 threaded holes and the hole in the middle is the drain

u cannot plumb the oil return into the bottom of the pan the oil will back up in the turbo and u WILL blow out the seals
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i would remove that block with all the vacum lines and run a line from the turbo outlet directly to the wastegate acuator

imnot sure what that block does though

 

lol. uh-oh. Houston, we have a problem. i actually would think it's a drain myself, but i don't know turbo's that well yet. still learning. i still maintain i thought the fitting on the opposite side of the turbo, the pressure fitting, would be the oil in and i have no idea about the oil out. i figure the two lines above are for water, but not sure where to hook them up, so am i gain much by doing that or is something worth skipping over? i understand keeping the turbo cool is gonna help, but is it gonna make a difference or should i just skip that?

 

as long as it is not a ball bearing turbo u can skip the water lines, if it is ball bearing which i doubt being off an old turbo probe,u would destroy the turbo ina short period of time without them

 

like this project?



so no one knows what that block is for?

i won't plumb the oil return the way i wanted too, not worth the risk. how about if i could find a one-way valve to install on the line? is this just a dead cause? i haven't been under the car, but can i get the pan out without lifting the motor(that's mainly what i'm trying to avoid) or is the crossmemeber in the way?

 

yeah that works, i welded my fitting to the pan while the motor was in the car

remove the ds front tire and go in from the side

or take it to midas/mineke and let them do it and fight with it for 50 bucks

 

yeah, i can't weld, so i planned on having them do it for me. i was actually gonna use a muffler shop near my house. they always hook me up with good prices and real nice work.

so, if the threaded fitting is the oil in, where's the oil drain? that square hole on the opposite side?

 

yes the square hole is the drian

 

alright, got the turbo mounted, the oil lines run, the water lines run and had to get a new battery and inter cooler because mine were abducted=( so, tomorrow i have to get the exhaust routed through and i should be in business.... except that the injectors are leaking gas everywhere! i don't know what the story is, but when i installed them it looked like the distribution block above the injectors wasn't being held down by anything. my guess is that the block is loose and allowing the injectors to squirt all over. that's a shame because i had it running today and it sounded a lot better with the new injectors in. it just didn't look right to me when i put it all together but i couldn't figure out what had been changed. i think there is supposed to be one or two bolts holding it down, but the bolt holes in the block don't match the bolt holes in the lower intake manifold. is it possible the previous owner used a distribution block off another year or all these 2.8's the same? mine is an 85 so i know the vacuum canister and some other stuff is on the opposite side, but i wouldn't think something like a fuel distribution block. i need to get the upper intake off tomorrow and take a look at where the leak was coming from, but let me tell you, it was a LOT. also, i'm not too sure about my oil return set up. i did NOT run it to the oil drain plug, but actually to the passenger side valve cover. i'll post some pics tomorrow, but kind of a long day, so probably in the afternoon. the drain for the turbo is pressurized, not gravity fed, right?

Do i need the bigger injectors with this small level of boost? i've heard that i'm only running about 7psi with this combo, does that sound right? i remember these injectors being a little shorter than the originals i removed, but i still have them and could put them back on if i need to. would the injectors off a 3.8 buick(mid 90's) work(i.e. are they the SAME length as the factory units)? thanks for all the help so far guys, this thing is almost finished!!!

 

u should be able to run the stock injectors for only 7 psi but for saftey i would goto the 19 pound tpi injectors.
it sound slike the injectors u got have torn o rings on the tops.

 

if they were torn wouldn't it be visibly noticeable? i'd like to get those 19# tpi injectors, but couldn't find any at the junkyard when i got the ones currently on the car(from thunderbird 4.6L). how about from a vortec motor? i saw a 4.3(i think) over there today. what is the rating on the buick 3.8 injectors? i'm fine with replacing them, but i think i need to get the right length because of the weird way the fuel 'log' or whatever it's called is set up. with the shorter injectors it just didn't feel like it set right because i couldn't push it down far enough. it felt like the injectors had seated but apparently they didn't. the funny thing is, the idle was so much better than before! it was actually running the best it has since i bought it! any ideas about getting the current set up to seal? the 'log' i'm talking about is the joining piece that the injectors plug into and it's sandwiched between the upper and lower intake manifolds. the new injectors were only about 1/4 shorter than the stockers. i installed them onto the log and pushed them down into the injector ports but they wouldn't seat right. like the front four or so would seat good, but the back wouldn't. it kind of see-sawed back and forth or just wouldn't cooperate at all. finally i started pushing the injectors down into the lower manifold with a screwdriver and kind of felt them snap into place. should i be having this much problem with only a 1/4 inch difference in length? did i install the injectors wrong? never have before=(

 

i borrowed this image off daves v-6 turbo install page, but that's the 'log' i mentioned. it just won't seat right with the 4.6 injectors in but i've never replaced injectors before, so do i install the injectors into the lower manifold first or the log?
also, shouldn't there be some kind of bolt holding this thing down? i don't see one in the pic, but there is nothing holding mine down except the o-rings holding it to the injectors??

 

You should install the injectors into the fuel rail first. There should also be little clips that lock the injectors into the fuel rail.

There are 2 bolts on the passanger side of the fuel rail.

 

they're the same thread size as the bolts that hold the throttle braket to the intake. to get them to sit in the right spot, push down a little on each injector as it goes in to line it up with its respective hole.

 

So you know, AN is in 16'ths. 3 AN = 3/16". You can mount the oil return wherever you like as long as it's above the oil level in the pan and below the level of the output on the turbo. Typically the port with smaller line is the pressure line. Also make sure you use a larger return line than pressure line to aid drainback. Glad you ran the coolant lines, you don't want cooked bearings. The 4.6 injectors might be a little shorter than stock, but it should still seal when bolted down. You don't really need larger injectors, and shouldn't go larger without retuning. When you start plumbing the induction you need the maf ahead of the turbo, it won't hold pressure. You should also try putting the bov ahead of the maf so you don't get false readings when it lets loose, but that might be a little unrealistic since you need it between the turbo and throttle. Put the IAT after the intercooler, that should keep your engine happy because $1F (the bin your ecm uses) refrences the IAT for spark correction.

 

+1 on the iat i didnt install mine when i first did my turbo and it nearly cost me the motor the first time i went into boost

since he has a bosh bov he can plumb it back in behind the maf sensor and it wont be an issue

though i ran mine to atmosphere and the only time i would stall is if i would rev up in nutral and the bov went off

 

thanks a lot for that bl85. also, project 89 you've given me a ton of useful info. didn't have time all day yesterday to mess with the injectors until afternoon, and it was raining then=( i was wondering what to do about the maf, so thanks for clearing that up. also, maybe i just don't recognize the abreviation but what is the iat?
so do you think i should scrap the 4.6 injectors and run stock or run a return line? what would i need to hook up the return?

 

iat is the intak air temp sensor, u need(must) install this in the piping from the intercooler to the throttle body

i belive it screws into a 1/2 pipe bung or it may have been an 02 sensor bung


return line for what??
if u mean the bov u have to run that line u have a 5 speed car so everytime u let off to shift u will be blowing that air out into the open.now since u have a mass air flow meeter its already acounted for this air going into the motor and added aditional fuel.so if u dont plumb it back behind the maf the motor will go dead rish when u shift and prolly stall

 

what did you run the water lines to? did you take them from the throttle body?
where did you put your oil in? below the oil level in the oil pan?

 

Pretty sure he's asking if he should run a return line with his larger injectors, or if he should switch back to the stock sized injectors w/out running a return line at all....

 

yeah, i was asking about the injectors.

i did run the cooler lines from the throttle body. was kind of a pita but i guess that's what i get for using lines that were just a little too small. i actually ran the oil line into the top of the valve cover, but i wasn't 100% on wether the oil return was gravity or pressurized. this wasn't meant to be permanent anyway, but just enough for me to get the car over to a local muffler shop so they can weld up the exhaust for me. i still plan on having a drain welded into the oil pan when i have the exhaust welded up. i'll get some pics up later today if the weather permits of the water lines and the turbo hanging in there on the mounts.

is the iat one of the sensors located near the air filter assembly? or the hard plastic pipe that leads to the throttle body? i still have the sensors but hadn't gotten them sorted out yet til i get all the oil and water and exhaust lines finished yet.

 

the iat is on the hard plastic air filter snorkel thingy. the hard plastic tube is the maf (mass air flow sensor)

 

great... i kind of suspected this when i installed the injectors but just left it alone because that's the way it was but now it appears the lower intake manifold is on 180 degrees off! i know the bolts for the fuel log are on the passenger side of the log, but my MOUNTING holes are on the DRIVER side of the manifold! dang... guess i gotta pull the lower manifold off later today. i didn't even know you could mount a manifold that far off...

 

dang, that sucks. do you have the bolts to hold the log down to the manifold at least?

 

no, they aren't even there, but i have a few bolts lying around that i can use to make it fit i'm sure. i took some pics so i'll put those up tonight along with a few of the turbo actually mounted up. it was simpler than i thought. not really a 'pro' set up or anything, but it holds it up and was cheap, what more could you ask for? i anticipate having more support from the exhaust anyway. i'll get that manifold spun around here in a few hours. gotta head to the mvd=(

 

Make shure you take pics I wanna see how you mounted the turbo.

 

why would you do this?

red is where the bolts are on the manifold. blue is where they line up on the log...


same thing in this pic. yellow are my leaky injector(s). gotta fix the manifold first and see if that cures the leak...

 

this piece was like 2.50 from home depot. i used two.




i'll get some better pics tomorrow. anybody around albuquerque weld? i'm dying to get the exhaust done!!!

 

can you run a turbo like that?, isn't the shaft of the turbo suposed to be paralel to the ground?

 

uh, good question. that would be the first i've heard. how about it guys? can the turbo stay mounted the way i have it or do i need to rotate it so the shaft is parallel to the ground?

btw, i got the intake spun around yesterday and the injector leak fixed. i also started the car and... i have a small gas leak from the schrader valve! weird. also, a small oil leak from the turbo feed line that comes out right near the oil pressure sender. i think i just need to tighten it up a little bit, but the schrader valve has to be replaced. i'll get that stuff done this morning.

 

Yes, the shaft would have to be parallel to the ground because the oil drain has to be pointing straight down to drain. It is not pressurized, it is gravity drain. So you cannot drain to the valve cover unless you use a scavenging pump.

 

The reason your injectors may not be fitting right is because them appear to be design 3 style... which IIRC is 2001'ish plus.

You need the older design which is the same exact size as what you pulled out. But that is the correct color.


:edit: attached pic is what they should look like.

 

I just had an idea! is there a way you could hook up the oil sending line to the open(plugged) oil sensor hole near the oil filter? its under pressure. it could be easier if you just had to screw the line in on both ends.

 

like how do you mean? i have a set up similar to this one but mine is hard steel line rather than an line.

 

my hard lines have a leak, but i think i warped the fitting with vice grips before i even got started(sorry, my favorite tool!) so i have to either re-do it or use an lines. while i was checking for leaks i noticed there is what looks like a little brass plug above the oil pressure sender hole. is this what you were talking about as a possible oil return line/drain? is this pressurized? i'm ready to head over to the muffler shop this morning(friday) but i can't drive the car over there with the oil lines like this. it would really help if i could drain the oil in here but if not the muffler shop will weld in a bung for me anyway. so what do you guys think, can this be used as a drain or is it pressurized? i have the plug circled in red in the pic, but that pic is the same from above and isn't my car. i'll get some pics of the turbo installed(again) tomorrow but it looks like i'm not gonna run the intercooler. i still have it, but all the routing is backwards and it just looks like a huge pain, so we'll see but probably not...

 

yea, thats the plug that I was refering to. its used for oil pressure sensors on the s10. its under pressure, just a differen't location for exhaust and such.
what are you using for your oil sending? the picture is what I was thinking of, but they used that "t" instead. its a wise idea, because if you haven't taken out that plug recently its not coming out. trust me. I tried to get a plug out of another 2.8 and broke my tool. so to plug my hole i put a s10 oil sensor in as a plug.
so that hole would really work well as a oil sender, right?
I think the best position to put the return line would be around the oil filter on the oil pan, above the oil level. kinda toward the back of the engine. that way its easier to get to.

project 89, how did you weld the bung on? btw where do you get those things to weld them on? you should probably drain oil first, but would you need a mig welder? and how did you clean the outside of the oil pan to get bare metal? grinder? sorry, but I gotta know.

 

--been busy finishing up a bunch of projects i've been puting off for too long! but i'm back and working on the turbo project again. she should be off to paint in just a few days here. gonna be a great looking and great running car! i might end up installing the intercooler after all, just depends on how much of a pain it is to route the lines into the intercooler as opposed to just not installing it. if it's not TOO bad then i may as well use it since i have it already.
--any body have a vote on what color i should paint her? she's white now with gray interior and has black and gray detailing under the hood. pretty well going in circles trying to decide if silver or black or just re-spray it white. white seems kind of plain though, you know? maybe i should do some custom spray work or stripes or something?
--now that she's nearly done it's almost time for me to let her go out into the world by herself. problem is i don't know what she's worth! when i got her she needed a lot of work, but that work is complete and now the turbo's just about wrapped up too. the only turbo fire birds i can find for sale are the 20th anniversay all-white ones, the limited edition ones. but mine isnt one of those, so i don't know how to compare my car or what i should ask for it. i heard someone mention they had seen another turbo (trans am) bird that the guy was selling for 8500?! i don't know what to ask because i want to be fair to the buyer but also i need the most amount i can get so i can squirrel away in the winter and work on my 56 chevy i've been neglecting. any suggestions on how much i should ask? anybody want to buy a turbo trans am? she's real nice! t-tops, cd, 5spd! let me know and i'll get some pics up soon. didn't want to put them up yet beccause she's so much prettier now=)

 

well its probabaly not worth any where near 8,000 . The turbo trans am's sell for like 14,000 still!! but they came stock with a whopping 300 hp with that buick grand nat engine and the garrett turbo.

 

its just a pipe bung and its mig welded to the outside of the pan.and yes u to get down to bare metal

dont drian the oil out of the pan leave it full

 

oh, i don't begin to imagine the car is worth anywhere near 8 grand, but i was originally looking for around 4 grand when it was finished and i haven't been confident that my goal was realistic or feasible. then i see these big numbers for turbo cars, but they're all FACTORY turbo cars or limited production, so i know that's not accurate. i guess i'm just gettting nervous about the amount of money i'm sinking in to this car because i had always planned on selling it after i'm done playing with it. i'm sure it'll all work out in the end, probably just my nerves. it's getting cold and the holidays are just around the corner...

 

Well Just get it installed and have some fun with it then if you still want to sell it put it up on craigslist and autotrader. Some one will want it.

 

what are you going to use for a boost controller? do you even need one?

 

i think those turbo probes ran between 7-10 psi so he should be fine

also 15 psi from that small turbo would only be = to say 5-7 psi from a t3/t4 hybrid even if that

so he should be fine no matter what the wastegate actuator is set on that thing

 

i've been kind of stalled out with this project the last couple of weeks, but i've also been looking into other ways to get the oil return line done without welding on the oil pain and i think i came up with something. i went by yearwood speed and custom, the local race place around here, and i bought what essentially a big-a$$ punch. it should punch a hole in the pan to right around 3/8 and i bought a tap set from harbor freight for 11 dollars on sale. it ends up more or less the same amount of money i would have paid a shop to just weld it in, especially after you factor in the 3/8 npt brass connector you still need, but just thought i'd let people know in case they want to do it a different way. you're supposed to climb under there and hammer it into the side of the oil pan as high as you can get it somewhere towards the rear. the best place i could see was right near the oil filter on the passenger side, but i couldn't get a good angle in their with just a jack, and it was cold and late, so i decided i'll put the car up on my drive up ramps and take another wack at it later today. hope this helps some of you guys out there!

 

they do sell self taping fittings. basically u do what ur doing punch a hole then screw the fitting in.

ppl use them but i dont personally thing its a good idea
ur relying on the metal u knocked inwards to hold the fitting into the pan.
a leak on ur return line could cost u a motor or worse if it turns into a bad leak while ur driving