Hey all, Im trying to simplify a megasquirt installation by using my exsisting harness under the hood.

On the pinout of the 3.1l, I see pin BC12 say injector 1,3,5 - and pin BC11 say injector 2,4,6.

Then I see pin BD6 and BD7 both say injector drive low.

Iam I correct in saying that the injector drive low pins supplied the positive feed to the injectors and the BC pins are the signals, or is it the other way around.

Here is the megamanual wiring diagram for the injectrs, With all injectors receiving a 12+ feed and half of the injectors recieving a signal from on bank of the megasquirt and the other half of the injectors on another bank. I know that's exactly how the oem harness is design, just need to know what pin did what.

 

You answered your own question....

The OEM ECM and the MS both ground the injector, the other side receives 12V ignition source.

 

Hey Six Shooter, Glad you're around, im goig to be buying the MS with a wire harness this week, Hopfully I can do a quick splice into my oem harness and be done with the installation. So PIn BC12 tat say 1,3,5 would go into port 32 & 33 of the MS, and BC11 that say 2,4,6 would go into port 34 & 35 of the MS, and both wire from BD6 & BD7 would go to port 28 of the MS,

Do I got it right?

 

dont cut the pins on the factory ecm instead cut the 2 injector wires on car haness side of the injector conector. this way if u ever have a problem with the megasquirt u can simply cut 2 wires and splice the factory 2 back together for an easy on the side of the road repair to get u moving again

under the throttle body is the connector im talking about, the right half of the conector is the side u want to cut and tap into
----------
what megasquirt are u buying ???

 

Yup, I know the connector you're talking about, Though I never did pay attention the the wiring to that connector, I know the water temp sensor wires are in there as well.

So are you saying that you designed your system so that on the fly you can go back to your factory ECM? I didn't think the facotry ECM could run the larger injectors.

Is the way I described above the correct way to connect the OEM wires to the MS, from the connector harness under the TB?

Im buying the MegaSquirt-II Programmable EFI System PCB3 from DIYAutotune and a harness. I also have a MSD 6A, Im seriously trying to understand in the megamanual how to connect that but Im having more questions that answers, that's another story.

 

depends on what size injectors u have anything from 24# down will allow you to plug back in the stock ecm to limp the car home if u ever have an issue with the megasquirt

the wiring is very simple to do once u get everything and are ready to wire it i can lend u a hand i even started a ms install thread with the wiring for the distributor

doing it with the method i listed above u will need 2 buy seperate conectors for ur ait and coolant temp sensors though, cause if u need the stock ecm to limp home u need to be able to plug those back in . while ur at it grab urself from a junkyard the pigtails for the dizzy this way u dont have to cutup the stock harness

 

Why would you change anything under the hood?

You can simply splice in the MS harness or better yet make an adaptor harness, since all the same connections are there. The two injector wires go back to the ECM.

Pin 28 on the MS is the ignition (12V switched) input, so again, it's just splicing. The diagram just shows it kinda funny for anyone not familar with electrical or reading schematics.
The OEM harness already has the injector ignition feed splice within the harness itself.

The OEM ECM will run larger injectors without issue. Currently I have 30# /hr injectors running on my 7749 (very similar to the 7730), wired like a 7730 would be. I will be swapping to 42 lbs/hr injectors or larger, once I need that amount of fuel or I find a good deal on a set. There are others that have ran upto 75 lbs/hr injectors on the stock ECMs.

With the dicumentation, and products that are out there, the OEM ECM is a very viable and tunable platform. If I didn't have the confidance in the OEM ECM that I do, I wouldn't be using one in my Datsun.

Check out the DIY PROM forum, and the FAQs that are located there.

Basically the hardest part is getting the nerve to actually modify the first setting and then after that, you get hooked.

If you do decide the MS is the way to go for you, I would recommend DIYAutotune, I bought a JimStim-K from them last week, and had it in my possesion in less than 4 days, and that includes crossing the border into Canada.

 

hes not tunning the stock ecm though so the biggest thing it would run and drive mor elike limp home with would be the 24;s

making an adapter harness would be best but were the hell would u get the ecm connector ends from?


heres the wiring for the dizzy for ya




pur ign module

u will be tieing into the conector on the right 3 wires to the ms unit and the remianing pin goes to gound
the left side goes to the coil and battery and requires no changes
and also the full ms unit pinout


if he cannot make an adapter harness the next simplest thing is to solder the correct pigtials directly ontp the ms harness this way if he has issues its a simple unplug and plug the stock stuff in if he gets stuck somewere

now this shouldnt happen but it is niece piece of mind knowing u can do that

since he is also maf based there isnt much he can do with the stock ecm even if he did burn chips with it still has a 155gmsec limit on the maf so the maf computer is still limited unlike the sd computer which can run the tgp code or others. and its still more work to swap to factory sd system then it is to wire up the ms unit and the ms unit will do more without knowledge needed in the factory programing to make it do what u want it to do

 

ALL I mean ALL of the wires needed are at the ECM connectors currently.

Swapping to an SD system is LESS involved than going to a completly different EMS. A few pin changes, burn a bin that can be downloaded from fileman (www.moates.net), install the G1 adaptor and there you go, maybe some bin tuning but shouldn't need much at all, if any.

I have removed the connectors from a ECMs to make adaptor harnesses, you can also order them from some online places, there is more info in the DIY PROM forum. In my case I am adapting from a 7747 to a 7730.

So basically he would need to leave the entire stock EMS inplace to have this "limp home mode", including the stock and restrictive MAF, or at the very least carry it with him, along with tools that will allow the MAF to be swapped back in for the Limp Home mode? Sounds counter productive to me, especially considering that the stock GM already has a Limp Home mode built in, that doesn't look for a MAF input, or CTS, or MAT, just TPS, and RPM.

Additionally and this is not my favorite way to do it, the MS harness can be spliced into the original harness leaving the OEM ECM connectors in place for this "limp home mode" to be available.

I just don't understand the concept of leaving the original EMS in place, complete, just to have a Limp Home mode, when tuning the OEM ECM is not that difficult.

 

yeah theres just a bunch of ways to do it,all achiving the same thing,
the reason i recomended that wau to him was incase hes run into anymore problems since he's had a few along the way already

but if u do it without the stock harness at all it makes it very easy to remove the entire stock harness out of the car since there will be some unused stuff in the harness neway once hes done.maybe its just me but id rather have an entirely new harness that i know all the wires are in good shape then a 20 yo factory harness.

but there are many ways to do it he just needs to figure out which on best suits his needs

i avctually have my stock ecm still in place, and even though the stock maf is a restriction he can still make 380-400 crank hp with it on there

my stock computer is being fully removed this week though since i am changing over to full ignition and fuel control again so i can ditch my maf, but since i have a ms 1 i need to find somethign to use for iac since i wont be able to control the factory steeper without the stock ecm


no offence excell but u did rush into all this a lil fast without thinking everythign threw

 

The MS1 will control the GM stepper IAC, with proper modifications.

 

only the ms2 will do stepper when u do ign and fuel u actually use one of the iac wires for ignition control, i gota use a fiddle valve or something]

edit actaulyl i think the ms1 v3.0 will do it i have a ms1 v 2.2

 

some one should just make a megasquirt to stock v6 ecm adapter that way you wouldnt have to wire anything.

 

I would like to think that I covered everything I needed, I haven't done anything to the stock ecm or harness yet, and Im trying to understand every wire before I go in. Throwing me for a loop alittle is the idea of going back to the original ecm on the fly if the MS fails, I like that Idea and I will draw up a diagram to just splice into the wires going to the original harness, so if MS fails I can unplug the DB37 and pug in the original ECM.

BTW, my car is a 91, doesn't that mean I was originally Speed Density and not MAF? Just though I had all that understood. . . . .

Are you sure you dont think it's not a good Idea to tap the injector wires from the OEM ECM harness? It's the same wires to the harness by the Throttle Body under the hood right? Just trying to limit Under the hood activity.

Six Shooter, I really respect all aspecs to tuning the original ECM, I believe it's a more genuine and cleaner way to it all. However for me that really don't have that much time and patience, the MS with it's simple splicing and tuning with a laptop is more feasable for me. Im sure we're going to get the same results, and that way I won't feel like I need to take a class on digital techniques just to get this v6 project onte road. Thanks dude

 

my bad i got u mixed up witht he other guy doing a turbo setup right now his car is the maf car

u can tap them under the dash it dosent make any difference when i did mine it was easier to run the entire ms harness out under the hood and tap into everything that way

 

This is what I drew up the the injectors, Pin #28 on the DB37 will also be connected to a 12+ source. Do I have it correct?

 

No that is not correct.

D6 and D7 are ground, they go to engine ground. This is part of the injector drive scheme. In other applications, namely the '7749 in the Sunbird this injector ground gets changed to a loop that feeds back into the ECM to enable Peak & Hold injector drive scheme. The '7730 uses what is called saturated injector drive scheme.

D6 and D7 don't get a splice or connection to the MS.

Pins 32/33 and 34/35 are correct though.

Pin 28 will get connected to A6, which is just switched 12V ignition, no positive injector wiring to mess with.

Basically the switched 12V ignition wire that runs under to the hood to control the injectors is split off to a few different locations, one is to the pin A6 at the ECM to feed the switched 12V ignition to the ECM to "turn it on". So you don't need to change anything about the 12V switched side of the components.

You will also need to add a relay to control the fuel pump. The MS uses a negitive trigger to enable the fuel pump relay, where as the OEM ECM uses a positive trigger.

Getting into tuning the OEM ECM is not that difficult and would would say that the hardest part to get over is your own fear of doing jumping in. With the products that are now available, especially those from Moates (www.moates.net), it makes getting into tuning the OEM ECM rather easy on the hardware side, and the software side is covered with Tuner Pro (www.tunerpro.net).
This way no wiring needs to be changed, and you get to start from a .bin file that already runs your car, this allows you to make tweaks, instead of starting from scratch.

 

Ok, I understand that the injectors recieve thier 12+ source from a series of wires that comes back to A6 on the ECM, thanks for clearing that up.




OK Six, you got me interested, Im going to put my MS notes aside and take a trip to www.moates.net. Im going to check back with ya in a few hours on what I can understand so far. Let me see just how easy it is to reprogram the oem ecm.

 

That diagram looks better.

Download Tuner Pro RT as well.

You can use the bin and definition files that are embedded into the TP RT download to look at some existing files. There are some definitions (xdf) that are more or less defined, and once you learn how to add or modify the xdf, the options are pretty limitless. Don't get overwhelmed with the amount of tables that are there (in most xdfs), there are way more things defined than you'll ever need to modify. Most people adjust the VE tables, and the spark table(s), along with the occational change to the cooling fan tables and maybe a few other items, for a really custom and dialed in tune. I'm running $59 (www.code59.org) and most of the changes I've made are to the VE table, a few minor changes to the spark table (trying to chase a mechanical problem), boost control table, shift light table (I have an Auto Meter shift light connected to and controled by the ECM) and the cooling fan tables. Any other changes I've made are simply because I like to tweak, and would not be noticed by anyone but me.

 

Ive read that if I have a Jet chip then the whole removing the memcal and eprom is simple, when I get home this evening Im going to pull out the jet chip I have and see what other hardware I need to get into the eprom. It's obviously a ZIF I need, just need to know which one once I pull the jet chip. That and the $80 programmer and i should be in business, how does the chip go into the programmer? Is there something else I need to buy?

 

A ZIF is a socket, that helps save the pins on an E/EPROM. I think it's EEPROM that you're thinking of.

The basic none real time way of tuning and least expensive way would be with an EEPROM (I'd grab a few), a programmer and an ALDL cable to datalog with. This should cost less than $200, especially if you have a MEMCAL adaptor with your JET chip.

A better way to go would be with real time emulation, and the addition of an Ostrich 2.0 $175. So less than $400, you can have the equipment and software to tune not only your OEM ECM in real time, but a friends as well.

You could also drop the programmer and EEPROMs and just use the Ostrich all the time, as I'm currently doing and save some money there. Myself I prefer to have the final or well tuned bin burned to an EEPROM, so that I don't have to worry about anything happening to my emulator.

The one thing I really like about retaining or using an OEM GM ECM is that if I'm away from home and have an ECM failure for who knows what reason, a replacement ECM can be bought from the nearest auto wreckers for an inexpensive price.

There's also the consideration for some that they need to retain many of the OEM emmisions equipment, including the CEL, to pass inspection.

 

Ok, here's the Jet chip . . . . ,





So all I need is the BURN1 Flash-n-Burn USB-Based Chip Programmer for $85 and some EEPROMS and Im in the Bin right?

 

You'll also need a datalogging cable, so that you can see what is going on with the engine and what the ECM is "seeing" from the sensors and what it is doing in relation to that.

I use the ALDU1 (http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=49), and it works great. This is USB based so it will work with all laptops, that have a USB connector.
There are other ALDL cables around, and plans to make your own based on "Two transistors" or a MAX232 chip, but these are serial based cables that would either require your laptop to have a serial connection, or use a USB to serial converter that can be hit and miss if it works or not. FWIW, I have a MAX232 based cable that I made myself and it works fine, I thought I had a problem withit and that's why I bought the ALDU1, turned out to be the ECM itself. I now use the serial cable on my ECM test bench currently.

So, basically to get you started you need the following:
-=Hardware=-
ALDU1: http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=49
BURN1 (which will actually be a BURN2, since BURN1 is now supperceeded by BURN2): http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=48
SST 27SF512, I'd grab a few so that you can have a couple extras on hand at the same time: http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=39
-=optional hardware=-
Since you're doing this the "old school way" (Non real time emulation), I would strongly suggest using a ZIF socket, to reduce the chance of damaging the legs of the EEPROMS at insertion and removal from the MEMCAL adaptor: http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=44 I use ZIF sockets, and they make life to nice when you just flip the lever and pull the EEPROM, place it back in and flip the handle again, without worry if all the pins are seated, or any are bent, or missed the DIP socket, etc. It attaches directly to the MEMCAL adaptor where the EEPROM would be placed.
With the JET chip you can just place that in the BURN2 and read that, to start from, or if you'd rather start with the stock bin (that owuld be my suggestion), you can get this adaptor to make reading the stock MEMCAL very easy: http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=52
For the ultimate in tuning and ease, you can get into real time emulation with a Ostrich 2.0: http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...roducts_id=169
I have one and love it, I'm seriously considering getting a second one, just to use with my ECM test bench.

-=Software=-
www.tunerpro.net down load Tuner Pro RT, this will give you the ability both tune the bin, in real time if you get an Emulator, or without being connected to the vehcile at all. But the RT version also gives you the ability to datalog, which is very important.
To use TP RT you will need the bin file, which you can get from your JET Chip, or the stock chip.
A file called an XDF file, this is what will display the information in the bin file in english and easy to understand. To know which xdf will be correct, I would need to see the bin, but bascially if you look at the bin file in hex, byte 08 will show the "mask" code, I.E. 8D or 58 or A1 etc.
the last file that is needed is an ADS file, this is what deciphers the datastream that is sent through the ALDL connector, and displays in an easy to read format.

It may sound a bit overwhelming at first, but once you connect to your ECM for the first time with the ALDL cable, you'll feel like a pro, and see that it's not really as difficult as other people make it out to be.

P.S. tell Craig (Moates) I sent you.

 

Ok, Im ready to buy everything I need now, I have it all in the cart at moates beside the ostrich. Could you tell me alittle more about the ostrich; what it elimiates, how it hooks up, and how it works? It's on back order till 10/20/08, suks . . . . .

 

Yeah I seen that the Ostrich was on back order, but Craig is very good about getting the orders filled when it says that the back over will be caught up.

The Ostrich 2.0 is an EEPROM emulator.
What this means is that it gets installed in place of the EEPROM, in the ECM and then through a USB connection to your laptop, allows you to make changes to bin, while the engine is running, changes can even be made while driving down the road, I only reccomend that latter if someone else is driving.
The real time emulation cuts down on tuning time by many times over, no more shutting down the car, pulling the EEPROM making a change to the bin, burning the new bin to the EEPROM, reinstalling, restarting and many times waiting to return to operating temp and same conditions. etc. Make the chnage to the bin, and continue on driving, or pull over make a change, and then continue on.
It's especially great once you make a bunch of mechanical changes, to get the tune dialed in, then once you have a good tune, program the tuned bin to an EEPROM.
Like I said I'm currently running mine full time in my Datsun in a '7749 running code59. There will be days at a time I don't even connect to it, other days where I want to tweak some little thing and spend time tuning with the Ostrich. The good part about having an Ostrich is you can tune your friends cars in real time as well. It works with any ECM that uses 24 to 32 pin EEPROMs. GM, Honda, Subaru, etc.

To use it, in Tuner Pro RT, you use the emulation buttons, there are buttons for upload, down load and to turn emulation on and off. With emulation on, as you make a change to a table or through the 3D graph, that change gets uploaded automatically and right away to the Ostrich, so you can see the effects instantly.
I know the Ostrich works with other programs but all I use is Tuner Pro RT.

 

So that means that I will not need anything else but the ostrich right? I wont need the burn2, the aldl converter, ZIFs or anything, right?

 

No, you still need other items.

No matter how you decide to run the bin in the ECM (EEPROM or Emulator) you still need to know what the ECM is seeing, this is done with the ALDL Cable (I.E. ALDU1 from moates).

You could get away with not getting a BURN2 and EEPROMs, because the Ostrich will work in place of the EEPROMs. I still recommend programming an EEPROM with the final bin in the end however, and save the Ostrich from the elements, and possible theft, maybe I'm just paranoid that way, but I will remove the Ostrich from my car, at night or when I park in a questionable area, since this will allow me to take the Ostrich with me, to protect it from damage or theft if someone if someone were to break in. This is also a sort of theft prevention tactic as well, since the car will only try to run on limp mode, if it runs at all without the Ostrich connected (I haven't tried to run my car on limp mode).

If it was a choice between Burn2 with EEPROMs and the Ostrich 2.0, I think I'd have to go with the Ostrich 2.0, there's nothing better than tuning in real time and knowing that the changes you've made are infact changes for the better.

There is also the possiblity to purchase the BURN2 at a later date then, if you decide that you want to program an EEPROM and save the Ostrich for other times or use on other vehicles.
There are also cheaper programmers as well, but they all seem to be quite a bit more difficult to use. I currently own two Willems programmers. My first one was a "Dual Power" version, that requires making DIP switch setting and removing and replacing jumpers to use, can be difficult for a beginner to get used to, I know it took me a few frustrating attempts to get the hang of it and still need to reference some documents now and then. It was an inexpensive programmer though, and good to keep as a back up, or as I'm using it now with my ECM test bench.
My other Willems programmer costs as much or more than the BURN2, but programs a wider range of E/EPROMs, which at some point in the future I plan to get into some electronics prototyping or project building, this requires the ability to program many different types of E/EPROMs. This second programmer is also USB only and is very easy to use, but is also physically larger than the BURN2, if I had to say a size comparison, probably about 7 to 8 times the size of the BURN2, so the BURN2 is a very portable solution.
The BURN2 is also specifically meant for the purpose of automotive tuning and as such is easy to use.

So the minimum then for Real Time tuning only would be the ALDU1 (with cable1 I should have specified that earlier), and an Ostrich 2.0. You already have the MEMCAL adaptor, so that is covered, and with the purchase of an Ostrich 2.0 you can get a Tuner Pro RT registration for half price at $15 down from $30. The registration gets rid of that 10 second nag box that occurs when you first open Tuner Pro RT. You have downloaded Tuner Pro RT already, right? It's free to download and is fully functional without the registration, you just have to wait 10 seconds to use the program from start up.

 

Am I right to assume I also need the CABL1 OBD1-Style ALDL Connector as well as the ALDU1 XtremeALDL USB-to-ALDL Converter?

I have have those two things as well as the ostrich in the cart to buy, I want to start whit the ostrich to simplyfy things to start then later I will burn eeproms for the knowledge and I like the whole "saving the ostrich" idea. With the ostrich being on backorder, I will spend all the time I can understanding all the fields in Tuner Pro RT. I have to say, There're alot of fields and I dont know a thing about any one, but I figured I would eventually have to learn with the MS as well.

First off, can you point me to the most simplified tutorial on defining all these fields thirdgen.org have to offer? I will start off there and see just how far I can understand.

 

Yes the ALDU1 with CABL1 combo is what you need.

Sounds like you're off to a good start.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-prom/

More information than you'll ever need there. Look at the FAQ, there are a couple links to articles on basic tuning strategies.

The tables that you will adjust most are the VE tables (should be two, "main" and "adder", and eventually spark table.

You may also have a "closed throttle" or "idle" VE table as well that is used for idle fueling.

Other tables and scalers will usually not need to be changed, in a situation like yours where you are tuning an existing, already running set-up, so basically you'll be "tweaking". In other applications or situations you'll need to learn about those other scalers, to adjust to a different combination or drastic changes. Also you can tweak fan tables/scalers, start up fuel and RPM adders, etc.

 

This is what I recieved . . . . . .

1 x HDR1 Memcal Header (HDR1) = $10.00
1 x ALDU1 XtremeALDL USB-to-ALDL Converter (ALDU1) = $50.00
1 x S2 Aries 28-pin ZIF Socket (S2) = $10.00
1 x CABL1 OBD1-Style ALDL Connector (CABL1) = $30.00
1 x BURN1 Flash-n-Burn USB-Based Chip Programmer (BURN1) = $85.00
1 x FREE Moates.Net Sticker with $100 purchase () =


I played with tuner Pro RT alittle, not much yet, and played with the bin file that it comes with. I didn't understand much at all, but as I said I didn't spend that much time on it. Im really going to dig in today to try and understand more before I start pulling my computer from my car. There are alot of table and Im sure I really only need to modify a few to see some impressive results, I wonder if you could point me in the right direction to what tables I really need to be looking at:

The car is now turbocharged, it's pulling a good 12 - 14 psi. however once it starts to see boost it runs like **** till about 4k rpm, then even when the boost is up to 12-14, there are times when the car pulls some great HP, then other times where it still lags and act like it doesn't want to go anywhere. Im sure that's all computer related. Im sure the main goal is to retard the timing to boost and supply more fuel and make the system rich. I also want to bypass egr, as well as unlock all rpm and mph limiters, Im sure I'll be able to find those, not quite sure about the egr though. I sure what's confusing me is that Im trying to learn from a bin that is not from my car, so maybe once I do load the bin everything will make sence more.

Is it possible to get this computer to read a 3 bar map sensor? And also read a wideband o2 sensor?

 

I don't see a G1 listed in what you received, but I did notice the S2, are you planning on modifying the stock MEMCAL? I don't have time to go back through the thread, did you already have an aftermarket chip that has the MEMCAL adaptor?

Anyway, yeah the included bins and xdfs that come with Tuner Pro RT, while ok to use an an evaluation, but not really good indication for what you want to do.

looking at your stock bin, or one that you will be working with, will be of much more benefit.

What are you doing for fuel enrichment and spark control currently?

I'd have to assume FMU(RRFPR) and a boost referenced spark retard box, like an MSD 6BTM.

Yes, there are ways to read 2 and 3 bar map sensors, and WBO2.

The options range from patching existing bins to read the WBO2 through the ALDL, which is not really a beginner thing to do, to switching to a completly different code, in other words a bin from a completly different vehicle.

With the two question you had, being the desired use of a 3 BAR MAP, and WBO2 sensors, then I would point you straight to $59, AKA "Code59". FYI, XDFs, and the code that GM ECMs use are refered to by thier hexidecimal "mask" byte. a number written with a dollar sign preceding it is just indicating that the number is hexidecimal and not just a regular decimal.

Some good reading on hexidecimal by Mark Mansur on the Tuner Pro site, I believe it's listed in the "white Papers" page.

Anyway, getting back to $59, it is a cleaned up and modified version of $58, which is the code that was originally used Turbo Sunbirds and Syclone/Typhoon.
$59 has had the VE table expanded to use a 3 BAR MAP sensor and not just rescaled, but another 400+ points of fueling control added.
$59 also has not only the ability to read the WBO2 AFR through the ALDL, but also the ability to use the WBO2 to control fueling, in closed loop!

You should have an ECM with the service number of 1227730 (AKA "'7730"), and $59 has been proven to run well on this ECM, most other similar ECMs should have no problem, but they have not been tested yet.

For more information about $59 and a place to get the files: www.code59.org

Anyway I need to get to work, I'm late as it is. Anything else, just ask.

 

I do have the jet chip with the adaptor, so that's cool. I have the stock memcal and the jet memcal.

Currently I have a holley adj fuel pressure regulator with a msd exterior fuel pump, I don't have the vacuum hooked up to the regulator so the fuel stays constant @ 59 psi. I never got around to buying the 6BTM, so Im not doing anything for retard at the moment.

Im real interested in $59, Im assuming it uses the same definition; 6e.xdf, I was hoping I could download it but it's not on the tunerpro site, do you have a clean $59 bin file you could email me so I can play with it?

Sorry to make ya late for work dude! Im doing all this at work myself, everytime I hear someone about to walk past my cubical I have to swap widows on my pc. Sometimes you get caught, but then it's nobody important so you're like, close call, hehe

 

LOL, you didn't make me late, I could have just gone to work and not replied. It's all good, my boss is pretty laid back and his only stipulation is that the work gets done in time, he doesn't care how quick or slow I work, just as long as it gets done, plus he knows I'm quite sick with some wicked head cold, it's really kickin' me on my ***.

Anyway. Yeah you really need to take care of the fuel delivery.

$59 is the mask.

You will need the $59 xdf and ads (for datalogging).

Anything and everything $59 related can be found at the $59 site, www.code59.org. You need to register to download the files, but it is worth it.

 

Just subscribing. Im going to be doing all this data stuff for my build...so hopefully there will be more good info.

 

So I use my stock bin file with the $59 xdf file and go from there? Or is there a $59 bin file that I must use? If there is I dont see it on the $59.org site.

 

No, you can't mix and match bin, xdf and ads files.

The current $59 site is a bit difficult to navigate, there is a new site coming that is MUCH easier to find files and documentation on.

The easiet way to find the file library is go into the forums, and in the description for the bin files forum, there is a link to the "File Library".

Think of it all this way.

The bin file is what the ECM uses on the chip, and has all of the instructions.

The xdf file is a road map to see where the information is and what values that information gives in something that is easier to read that what looks like just a bunch of random numbers and letters (hex)

The ads file deciphers the datastream that is being sent out of the ALDL connector.

Trying to use the wrong xdf for the bin file would be like trying to find your way across Europe using a map of Jap, they just don't match.

 

OK, I found the #59 starter bin, and I have the $59 xdf 3bar 1.0 beta simple, and the $59 3bar 1.1 ads. So Im going to go play with the switches, flags and tables to better understand before I do anything to the car. I still have to install the WBO2 and the 3bar map sensors. Im going to do that this weekend.

If I burn the chip with the starter $59 bin set for a v6 without modifying anything in the bin, will it start and idle the car?

 

You know, Im looking at the constants in the $59 bin with the $59 xdf 1.0 beta simple, I dont see an option to select the size of the injectors.

 

The simple xdf doesn't have an injector constant, and even though the "full" xdf does, it isn't used in the fueling calculations. Most guys just use it to keep track of the injector size they tuned the bin for.

There are four v18 starter bins. The only differences between them in the VE table, all the same shape, just set to add more or less fuel overall, depending on which one. Starter bin -1 has the lowest VE table, and I believe -3 has the most, but could be -4. It's been a while since I looked through them all.

As long as the basic settings are close, the car should start and idle.
In my case, it fired right up and had an ok idle, once I fixed the fuel pump relay wiring, I had it wired for a negitive trigger, when it's actually a positive.

The usual suggestion is to get it started and running, idealy up to operating temp, and then adjust the Base fuel vs EGR table until you get a stoich idle, or close to, without surging.

Read though the forums on code59.org, there are some good tips on getting the car fired and drivable.

 

Im really trying to understand the basics, I have the oem chip in the burn 2 using the memcal header, I have retrieved the bin file using flash and burn software. the stock memcal has a 27c56 (read only) chip, so I can't erase it. How do I retrieve the xdf that I need to read this bin? Are the XDF files car and engine specific, or is it just ecu specific? I will later get more eeproms and use $59, I just want to read what was already in the chip for the car.

 

27c256.

The xdf in this case is "program specific".

Basically, there are different layouts used for lack of a better description, where the information for each table, constant, scalar, ALDL instruction, calculation variable etc, are stored at the same spot or area within the bin.

What you need to do is find what "mask" or "program ID" your bin is.

Now, I know you're sitting there asking how to do this and there are a few ways.

Through some searching on the interweebnets you can find information on your specific application and what the proper xdf is, and even some documentation to go along with it that you may want later if you don't want it now.

Ask someone that knows what xdf you need.

The way I do it is simply open the hex editor, and look at byte 8, or in address 0x08. Starting at the first address of 0x00 ("0000") you will count 9 places over to find the 8th byte. You need to remember that "00" has a value in hex, and is where everything starts from.

Here you will find hex numbers such as: 8D, A1, 88, 6D, 58, 8F, A8, etc.

Then go to moates.net and go into the file uploads and downloads section, liiking for an xdf that is for that mask.

I honestly don't know what yours will be.

I hope that helps.

 

That does help, tremendously, I was in the files at moates and saw all of the gm xdf files and had no idea which to use, I will check out byte 8 in the hex editor and go from there. Im going to toy with the original bin with my current setup just to get the hand of making and seeing changes b4 I change over to a 3 bar map, wb02, and code $59. I assume (I could be wrong), that once I find the correct xdf for my bin that making changes will not be as easy as making changes with $59 with the $59 xdf. Everything is very simple and easy to understand with $59, VS a regular bin and xdf were I can't even find the fuel VE table.

 

Well, it really depends on who made the xdf.

The $59 xdfs are done very well, and actually inspired me to set up a bunch on other xdfs I have in a similar way, sorted into catagories, with heads and the whole bit. I never would have thought of that until I saw the $59 xdfs, and my eyes widened thinking, why hadn't this idea come up sooner.

Anyway, yes you will likely find that finding the tables will be a bit more difficult in a non-sorted xdf, but shouldn't be that difficult to do. For fuel control, you'll need to look for "VE" in the title, also some compensation tables will control fuel.

For spark look for well, "spark" or "SA" (Spark Advance), again there will be some compensation tables that will control spark as well. It's a learning curve, but once you get the basics, yoiu'll be good to go. Don't worry there isn't really a whole lot of tables that need adjustment, even when using an ECM, or program on an engine that it was never intended to run. A lot of them are defined for guys like me that are shooting for that (honestly) impossibly perfect tune, and want to tweak every variable until we get it there. For guys that want to run thier cars and run them well, only about 10% of the tables will ever need adjusting. This is part of the reason the guys that are makeing $59 have set up a "simple_$59.xdf".

Just a real world example, I switched a friends truck the other night from a '7747 to a '7730 with S_AUJP, truck has never ran better, but the idle was kinda low, we've NEVER had that problem before, usually anything below 1100 RPM with the old ECM/program would stall the truck and it would NEVER idle in gear. Anyway, I wanted to raise target idle and couldn't for the life of me find the idle table. Last night I found it within a minute of opening up the finder to look for it (yes, I used the finder the other night too), the reason I ocouldn't find it was the author of S_AUJP decided to call the idle table something a little different that what I'm used to.

 

Well, I am seriously glad that people made the $59 simple xdf, because if I would of have to work off of the normal ones I would of given up. I forgot to order more chips from moates, and the stock chip and the jet chip are both read only. So I just ordered some from moates. Once they arrive I will burn the $59 and try it, in the mean time I have to install the 3 bar map and the wb02,

One more thing, I was able to find the mask for my bin, so I openned the bin with the mask on tuner pro, but when I try and save something that I change, the little window that I changed it in dissapears as if it accepted but when I reopen it the character is not changed. Am I doing something wrong to save changes to the bin?

 

As long as you're clicking on the "save" button it should be saved.

Once you are done making any and all changes it is best to click on the "save bin" button (looks like a floppy), to save the bin as a whole. You will also notice that the asterisk that appears beside the bin name in the main address bar will disapear when the bin is saved as a whole.

 

I pulled up the hex editor for my bin using the flash and burn program and found the 0080 line, but I dont recognize any numbers in the line as a xdf file:

00000080: BD F5 D7 DD 8A 15 37 05 F6 01 08 26 05 15 42 80

 

No, not line "80", byte "08" this will be in the very first line, 9 places over starting from the first hex byte.

 

Ooh, Im feeling kinda cheesy righ tnow, Duh!

00000000: 02 20 3F F0 8B A8 24 3A 5F 20 37 F6 01 7F 13 00

So I use 24.XDF

 

No, that's byte 6, you want byte 8, which in that line is "5F". 9th over, rememver to start counting from "0" (zero).

But I'm not sure the EPROM was read correctly, I'm not aware of "5F" as a mask.

What settings did you use to read the bin?

What size is the saved file?

 

This is very unusual, I tried it on my computer at work and the entire line is differnent.

00000000: 19 E7 04 ED 1C C0 24 88 C0 08 89 0B 61 3C 01

Someone from the DIY PROM said I needed 88.xdf, which that means that the computer at my job read the chip correctly. hrmm . . . . . . What the heck happen when I read the chip at home?