Trying to figure out what to do. My 2.8 is just slow and sluggish and not total amount of fun as I'd like it to be. So I've decide I want to crank a little bit more horses out of her. I've been searching and just don't know what to do . So I'll give you guys what I'm looking to spend and you guys give me some ideas to bounce off me. I'm look to spend up to $1500 over the summer. So what kinda stuff should I do? I'd really like it to be stuff I can do as I rather pay for parts and not labor. As long as it's not extremy difficult I'm sure I can do it. Obv I'll end up spending over that. But for now what should I do?

Some background information.
It's a 1989 Camaro RS.
2.8 mpfi
has a cam. Doesn't seem to be to aggressive. Don't know what kind as it was installed by previous owner.
Has 17lb injectors compared to Having the stock 15lb.
Other then that I beleive the car is all stock.
Also it's a automatic with overdrive.

All this stuff doesn't have to be engine maybe transmission upgrades to whatever will make her fun to drive. And get me to work quicker ;p

if you have links to the parts you suggest please post em. As we all know it's sometimes hard to find parts for this car.

So all you V6 gurus get thinking. I got the cash the car and the motivation and you guys got the minds.

 

3100 heads with a 3.1 rotating assembly will get you started. Also a bigger cam, headers, and an exhaust system. You could also look into either rebuilding or beefing up the auto or swapping to a 5-speed.

BTW, if you have just a cam, those 17# injectors are probably too big and that's why you're running like crap.

 

I'd seriously consider the T-5 swap, it'll make the car much more fun to drive, if a manual is your thing It'll be quicker than the auto too

 

1. Put some different gears in there, not sure what you have but Prolly not the best.
2. Get an UDP, cheap and easy mod.
3. Ditch the cat or replace it with a high flow one. If you still have the original, it;s clogged.
4. Headers.
5. 1.6 roller rockers, also cheap and easy, found on SummitRacing.com.
6. Get some head porting done. Usually not too expensive. I've looked into it and for a V6 it's not bad.
7. Put a big gold bird on the hood!

These are your basic cheap and easy mods that can be done. I stayed away from saying, hybrid, or turbo, because there's already plenty of info on those here.

 

1-5, good.
6. Head porting will probably cost as much as a hybrid swap when you factor in intake and throttle body porting as well. Much more worth it for a hybrid swap.
7. Camaros don't get hood birds.

 

Thanks guys for all the info.

1. Yeah I've decided I'm deff getting rid of the 17lb injectors. I just have to find a place where I can get a set of 15lbs fer a decent price. Advanced auto wants 79.50 an injector I'm sure there's cheaper.

2. Yeah no birds on a camaro. Although the hockey stripes are coming next month

ok now some questions.

The headers. Where do I find these. Do they make a set for the 2.8s? I'll have to weld some new piping to I'd assume to my exhaust right? Link to a set maybe?

The 1.6 roller rockers. These jus replace what I have? No modifications or anything? A link to the set I would get would be nice but I'll look too.

As far as tranny I'm going to stay auto. At least for this year. What would you say would be some good stuff to beef it up. I've read alot but anyone have any first hand views with anything worth buying?

 

There are places out there that sell NEW injectors for $160 a set, fuelinjectorconnection.com, southbayfuelinjectors, etc.
Headers are a direct bolt in for stock heads, probably useless on the hybrid parts. Summit has them, and so do other places.
Roller rockers need work... The heads would need to be threaded for a 7/16 stud, and the stock rocker nuts won't work as they would bind, so you would need to get a set of poly locks (which is why the heads would need to be rethreaded as nobody makes 10mm poly locks).

 

Life saver on the injectors!

And ok as long as the headers are bolt on sounds good

I don't think I'll be going hybrid. Seems like a hella alot of work and doesn't really intrest me anyways. And the roller rockers seem to be a little work so I might pass on those now to. Once I pay off some stuff I have left and I have my new garage at my new place I have an idea for a "ram air" intake and it'll base off are already stock setup (dual snorkels) more to come on that.

 

I was plannin on gettin these Comp Cams rockers soon, looks like they come with all that's needed...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-RP1414-12/

 

Ok, heres what to get, since you're against hybrid, now Idk how in depth you're willing to or can get, but:
1. headers, summitracing has them
2. catback exhaust, summit has these also
3. if the ECM is properly tuned for them there is no reason you can't use 17 lb/hr injectors
4. stroke it to a 3.1, I believe you would only need the crank, but I'm not sure, so check into it first
5. ram air, there's already a write up for it: https://www.thirdgen.org/ramair
alternatively you can simply gut the air boxes to allow the filters direct access to more air, and drop some K&Ns in there
6. shift kit and holeshot or w/e its called that allows you to control when the trans shifts, these are 2 different things
7. full roller 1.6 ratio rockers, the ones K-slice linked are only roller tip, full roller is better, as it has a roller fulcrum also
8. camshaft, I would recommend a comp cam kit from summit, they're reasonably priced and designed for stock redline and compression ratio
9. if you haven't already, full tuneup, ie. fuel filter, air filter, spark plugs
10. performance ignition, go with MSD
11. Not really going to make it faster, but will help handling out a lot and look better, get some 16" IROC-Z rims and 245/50 tires(the stock tire size, but many times people put crappy tires on them, ie. the rims I bought have 225/60 rear, and 215/60 front...which is just degrading performance)
12. weight reduction, if there are heavy things you can live without lose them, others can be swapped for lighter components, ie. a fiberglass hood, lose the AC compressor
That's all I got for now...

 

ok so gears. what do i prob have? im sure there stock. whats a good set i should go to? and how do i proceed in doing this? and after changing the gearing do i have to adjust anything else or anything?

 

theres not a place around me or on the internet that i can find that can or will tune my ecm. no one messes with my ecm or the 2.8 mpfi v6. so im at a loss and have to go back to stock.

 

Why would you change your gearing? You already have 3.42's, that's a great ratio and better than anything the V8's ever came with

Upgrading to 3.73's just wouldn't be worth it, and 4.11's+ would be way overkill

 

I gotta disagree. I have been running 22# injectors in my mostly stock 2.8L for a couple of years now and she runs strong. I changed the injectors to stock 3.8 4thgen ones in anticipation of a turbo build but haven't gotten to it yet.

 

Rockers may extend the useable powerband a bit, but IMO the money would be much better spent on some better springs to keep it out of valvefloat, like the beehive-style springs that came stock on 3x00 heads. Replacement's simple with an air compressor. Are you sure there's 3.42's in there? Most autos had 3.23's, the exeption being '85's. Gears are always a cheap way to get better 60 ft times. Have you considered swapping to a '165 ecm? Lots of neat stuff going on with that ecm right now. You can get bolt in headers from pacesetter that work with the stock exhaust or you can modify full length heddman s-10 headers & put together your own exhaust. Either are good but heddman headers will give you a little more torq down low. Get a shift kit or reprogram kit from transgo. B&M's kit is cheap but I didn't like the idea of replacing the accumulator springs with dowels so I replaced them with stiff springs from raptor. Someone mentioned stroking it with a 3.1 crank, it can be done with 2.8 pistons but they need to be milled down by .133" for 0 deck height. That's also a good way to bump the compression to 10.4.

 

I have to beg to differ with you here. I ran 3.4 18.4# fuel injectors and 305 TPI fuel injectors in my bone stock 3.1. The 3.4 injectors ran like garbage and the 305 fuel injectors ran worse, to the point where the exhaust note noticeably changed.

 

Umm, ok, but mine runs great, so who is right?

 

get a 350

 

^^^ Not for $1,500 you ain't.

And yes, you will have a 3.42 ratio. If you're looking to make it "more fun", you might consider installing a powertrax or something similar so you can have a posi

 

 

Buy yourself a junkyard motor and pull it apart balance the rods and pistons you can do that your self have the crank balanced smooth out the ports on the intake to about as ruff as 500 grit sand paper and use the darker then usual stains on the metal left behind to open up the ports on the uper lower and bottom intake manifolds and the stains on the head to open the head ports up on the exhaust and intake side of the head have a 5 angle valve job done and some headers should put you at the 1500 mark or just over and that motor will purr like a ferarri

 

I am. There is no way you have 22lb/hr injectors in the car and it runs well. You would be blowing black smoke at WOT and fowling out plugs weekly.



to the OP.. for $1500 i'd just save a while longer. Maybe an engine swap to a newer V6 when you get up to about $2500 or so. Dumping money into an iron head V6 is a waste no matter how you look at it.

 

No way?!?! Really?! Funny though 'cause it is running just fine. Hmmm. Project89 has been running 21# in his for a while now. You gonna tell him his isn't running either? Wanna come by and take a look at my car?

 

Maybe your car is magic then... Because the 50+ V6 cars i've tuned for engine swaps ran like total crap with 22lb injectors before fixing the BPC.


Got any datalogs?

 

How about I just post a video of it running?

Maybe my buddy's 4thgen didn't have 22# injectors? I'll have him post up and varify that we swapped the injectors directly from his 3.8 into my 2.8 almost 2 years ago and it fired right up and has been running strong ever since.

 

whoa guys take it easy lol my car runs with the 17#s and the idle has even leveled out. but im going back to the 15s cus she still doesnt like to start and i dont like running rich. but my car does run with the 17s 22s seem alot but if you say it works then maybe your one of the lucky ones.

 

Sorry to jack your thread!

 

also the reprogram kits? how do these work i looked them up but not much info? like what would i want to set my car to shift at in each gear? and is it easy to do?

 

its alright man! nothing wrong with comparing exspiriences. just didnt want anything to turn into anything hostile haha wer all friends here!

 

You can't computer tune shift points... The 700R4 is a purely hydraulic transmission that only has computer control over the torque converter clutch. You would need an external trans controller and a 4L60E if you wanted that.

 

sell it...

put the money you get for it with the $1500 and get yourself a 350.

trust me, it's the best way to do to it.

 

oh kinda confusing cus transgo has a "reprogram kit" for the 700r4 and a shift kit. didnt know what was better or what did what.

these are listed for the 700r4 the jr kit -http://www.transgo.com/kit_images/SK%20700-Jr.jpg

the not jr kit - http://www.transgo.com/kit_images/SK%20700.jpg

and the "reprogramming kit" - (no picture but its in the list)http://www.transgo.com/rpg_generalmtr.php

 

I see what you're saying now. Essentially, what that reprogramming does is turn the automatic into a manual by holding the gears indefinitely until the manual lever is moved (aka the shifter). It changes the shift points to wherever you want to shift and has the full advantage of having the torque-doubling torque converter in each gear as opposed to the manual trans.

 

so how does this work after i would to install it persay? llike with the shifter? do i have to up shift and down shift with my automatic shifter in some way?

also i was considering a B&M rachet shifter ive seen some people have. is this a good shifter advantages disadvantages? not a good product? couldnt really find a good reveiw or any good videos of its use on youtube.

and would this be a good combo with the reprogram. maybe i should just stick with the shift kit or the jr shift kit

 

The reprogram kit essentially kills the reason the auto was invented in the first place, taking away the automatic shifting. You have to manually shift each gear or you'll end up taking off and driving around town in 4th gear (if you leave the shifter in OD), which I would think, could get to be annoying anywhere but the track. The plain shift kit would be better.

 

sounds good to me then. regular shift kit it is lol once i get my graphics settled ill be moving onto parts.

so far most likely going with the shift kit, headers, and some various suspension parts.

i looked a little into this powertraxx that primtime91 was talking about. seems interesting.

i also found out from the previous owner it does not have a high flow cat but its the stock cat but its gutted. so idk weather to leave it or go high flow

 

If you're in an area with no emmisions, just leave it. Cops cant tell a gutted cat from a clogged one with a visual inspection.

 

You just have to do a search. I built up my 2.8 (now stroker) and I actually on some days prefer it to my GTAs. If you can find a 3.1 for cheap (or free), the other mods should run you into the $1200 to $2000 range to wake it up a lot.

The auto tranny is a bit of a problem, but not much. You probably lose 2-3% through the drivetrain. The rear ratio is the killer. That should be a further step. Also, make sure brakes and suspension are up to par.

 

Stock 3.8 injectors are 19lb/hr. That's a little closer and i'd believe that it runs ok with those. Cold starts might be a problem but that depends on how cold it gets where you are.

 

Well I actually have to go for emissions in like 4-5 months. But my friend said he passed before. I even saw the proof on the carfax I pulled. Idk if his cat was gutted then but I'm pretty sure it was.

eh maybe I'll go if I fail or if they say something I'll play stupid and claim I never knew it was like that and then just put in a highflow cat.

 

You said cold starting might be a problem with the 19#. what would cause the opposite?

My car will start first thing in the morning but let's say I drive a town over to go to the store and she warms up. When I get out the store it turns over 4-5 times before starting. And I feel I have to pump the gas to help. Haven't really tested if I NEED to do that. But in the morning I deff don't. Starts right up.

 

I'd change the coolant temp sensor first.


at different throttle positions there are variables that effect the injector pulsewidth. That's probably why it feels like pumping helps. You are adding fuel as long as the throttle is above 12% and below 75%, above that and it cuts fuel completely (commonly called "Clear Flood Mode")


The amount of cranking fuel is based on Coolant temp, RPM, Ref pulses, TPS and Barometer readings. (at least in the newer MPFI codes) Yours probably doesn't use ref pulses since it's not DIS.

Good luck!

 

Both dizzy and DIS systems have reference pulses... The same 4 wires (purple/white ref high, black/red ref low, white EST, and tan/black bypass) are used on both systems no matter the vehicle or the year. Besides, the 730 was used in both dizzy and DIS cars, for one example. The ignition module in the dizzy uses the pickup coil as the reluctor/square wave generator, as does the DIS module using the 7x and 24x reluctors and CKP sensors.

I'm thinking leaking injectors...

 

I got the 22# number from one of the other Camaro tech sites. And yeah, it doesn't get very cold here!

 

Good to know!

 

One of the reasons why going to a Buick DIS is possible. Except for the reluctors on the front hub and mounting the dual CKP sensor .

 

aah, cool.

I'm using the entire harness and DIS setup from my 91 Z24 with an external 7x trigger from TCE.

 

Good luck with that. I hope she purrs nicely (unless you have made it loud) when she's done getting her new heart.

BTW, would you consider making up a template or something for the rest of us wanting to mount an FWD engine?

 

i plan on doing a write-up on it soon. Gotta get the rest of the parts in first.

 

I was referring to the block mounts.

You're also making headers for it, right?