Ok, I need step by step instructions for the timing chain, including torque specifications (main thing I need). BTW, next summer no matter what it takes, I'm buying a TTA.

 

The torque is not what ya need.
You need all surfaces clean and let all material surfaces "cure" before you attach everything.
Main detail is just getting the balancer off.
Everything else is very very simple.
Just remove waterpump, remove the cover behind it & be sure NOT TO CROSS THREAD THE 10mm BOLTS down at the pan (going into the timing cover).
Torque, tighten just enough. YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO OVERTIGHTEN. No true need for a gauge to read these threads.
Save that tool for the cylinder heads bolt torque settings.
Your project is easy (except for the balancer part) compared to me removing the carb from my S-10 Blazer 2.8 (so I can get to the heads!!)

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Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

The harmonic balancer is THE HARDEST part of the job. Took me an hour, using a 1/2in Ratchet and my hand to hold the dampner. If you have access to a chain wrench you can use it to hold the pulley but you might damage the pulley.

Torque---it's all "feel". If you ask any mechanic, half of them don't even own a torque wrench. Just remember not to over tighten the smaller bolts because you can break the heads off.

Two things that i couldn't do at home: 1) was put the new front crank seal in, i did it at work. You just need a small punch and a hammer. 2) was cleaning the timing chain cover. I used a pneumatic grinder/polisher and got it SHINY. I used a good ol' razor blade on the block though. (couldn't bring that to work ).

Hmmm, now that i think about it, i didn't replace the crank sprocket so i don't know how to get it off. And those dots....i didn't line them up. For one, with the cover off, i couldn't spin the motor to line them up, and two, i didn't feel the need. It's physically impossible to put the spocket on the wrong way. I checked my timing afterwards and there was no problems.

Blah blah blah.....

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-Dan
-1990 3.1L RS
-Mods? no
-Slow? yes

 

Oh yeah, you don't need to take any oil pan bolts out and when you put the TC cover back on, put a good thick layer of sillycone on the bottom where it meets the pan gasket.

 

I'll get you the torque specs tonight.

I used a 3-jaw gear puller to remove the crank gear. I used a regular "duck's foot" puller to yank the balancer. I wedged a screwdriver in the teeth of the flexplate to keep the motor from spinning.

My 2.8 has two small bolts underneath the front bottom edge of the chain cover. I think these were elimated in later years; check for them. I didn't use the piece of gasket material that FelPro gave me for the front lip of the oil pan. I just laid down a bead of RTV silicone; it hasn't leaked yet.

I'll also get you the # of the FelPro gasket set I used. It came with the water pump gasket, timing chain cover gasket, and front cover seal. I think the kit was $15; you could probably find the stuff separately for cheaper, but I like FelPro.

If you get a Haynes 82-92 manual, it'll have the full procedure & torque specs in it, but I'll get 'em for you tonight.



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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

800-831-0884
Northern Auto Parts.
My stuff cost me about $50-ish including delivery.
Fel Pro gasket set, timing chain.
Sorry about the call on the oil pan. My 1985 has the two bolts.
But, HONEST,
if you can hand tighten a wheel onto a car, without a torque wrench, you can put all this back together, (timing gear stuff) without a torque wrench, too.
Go in a cross pattern for tightening.
Keep going around, until it is firm.
It is a feel, you can learn, without breakage.

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

I have to agree with KED on this one. Torque is by "feel". You need to learn it by doing it. And timing covers do not need to be torqued to hell and back. Hand tight plus 1/2-3/4 turn is fine. The silicone will absorb most of the vibration.

 

Mainly I was talking about the gears for the timing chain, not the cover. I don't want anything to come loose on me.

 

Chilton's says:

Timing Cover bolts - M8 x 1.25 bolts = 13-22 ft lbs

M10 x 1.5 bolts = 20-35 ft lbs

Damper pulley = 67-85 ft lbs

Camshaft sprocket = 15-25 ft lbs

Doesn't say anything about the crank gear, sorry.

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Maroon '92 RS 3.1L AT PW PDL CC Tilt

 

Here is a MAJOR point, I omitted earlier.
For this part, you need a kinda small block of wood or metal.
After you change the bottom gear, you will (obviously) put on the new one.
WHAT YOU NEED TO BE 100% SURE OF IS THE ALIGNMENT OF THE TOP & BOTTOM GEAR.
You check that by using the block of wood or something like that, to make sure the gears are aligned, straight, up & down.
IF THEY ARE EXCESSIVELY OFF the gears, chain, will wear quicker.
Take the few moments to check that detail.
Trust your eyes and a few extra taps of a hammer & wood.
The torque values are small, all easy hand/wrist effort. Just keep going around, and make it snug, then a few extra reasonably strong crank down, to secure it.
NO NEED TO BREAK A HEAD OFF OF ANY BOLTS!
EXTRA TIP, make sure you give all gaskets with RTV film on it a FEW MOMENTS TO CURE. Like maybe two or three minutes.
Best way to clean is kerosene, then brake cleaner on a rag, and let the sun/heat dry surfaces. Sand paper helps, too, BUT USE SAND PAPER SO SPARINGLY. Just use lots of elbow grease & you'll be good!
Remember, you are NOT reinstalling a tire.
Only an Aluminum timing cover.
AND A NEW WATER PUMP!! Cheap insurance.
THE BEST GEAR REMOVER IS WHAT YOU REALLY NEED!!! Borrow it!!. Need one with THREE 3 THREE Claws!!
Plenty of room in there for this job. Remove as little as possible, disconnect and push aside a much as needed. Keep the stuff in the car, attached, not on the ground in a pile of mystery metal!
Disconnect the battery!

------------------
Chat Soon,
KED85
Karl
1985 Firebird 2.8 to 3.4 swap project for Smog Happy LA, CA

 

I'm all for using correct torque specs; if there was a spec, GM had a reason for it- but that's just how I do things...

All specs below are in ft/lb ...

Cam sprocket- 18
Front cover mounting bolts:
...small- 15
...large- 25
Oil pan bolts:
...small (under front cover lip)- 7
...large (shouldn't need to pull these)- 18

Water pump mounting bolts:
...small- 7
...medium- 15
...large- 25

Water pump pulley bolts- 15
Crank pulley center bolt- 75
Crank pulley bolts- 25

On the water pump bolts, you'll notice some go through coolant jackets; in fact when you pull a few you'll get coolant pouring out. Coat these with either a teflon thread sealant or (what I used and never had leaks) blue RTV silicone. I used a blade knife to very carefully remove all the old sealant from the threads... I need to buy a tap & die set to make that easier.

The gasket set I used was for 80-86 2.8's, so I wouldn't say to ask for it. But for the 80-86 guys, the Fel Pro # was TCS-45466 . It was called a Timing Chain Set. It had the water pump gasket, timing cover gasket, and front seal.

I used the gaskets. The only spot I didn't was at the bottom of the timing chain cover, where the cover meets the oil pan. That's where I used the RTV. I trimmed off the old gasket material with a blade knife right at the spot where all three pieces (oil pan, engine block, front cover) came together. I coated the gaskets with Permatex "High Tack" red gasket sealant; bought it in a small metal can (with a brush in the cap) for $5.

The gasket scraping took forever. Remember when you scrape that the timing chain cover is aluminum; try not to gouge it too much. The gasket sealant will help fill in small gouges.

I hear a "big help" for the installation of the new crank gear is heat. I've heard if you heat the crank gear in an oven, grab it with heavy gloves, and then run to the engine, the crank gear will slide on easily. Make sure the "woodruff key" in the snout of the crank is FLAT, and not ****ed at an angle- that will prevent your crank gear from sliding on.

[edit] Stupid censoring program... that should be "c-o-c-k-e-d at an angle".

Coat the front seal and the outside of the balancer snout (where it slides into the front seal) with a lube; I used an engine assembly lube (moly), but I think oil would probably be fine. I also smeared an even coating of moly (the books all said to use moly lube, found it for $3/tube, don't know if oil would work here) on the back of the camshaft sprocket, where the sprocket meets the cam. I threw some moly on the teeth of both sprockets, and dripped some fresh oil on the chain.

DON'T USE THE CENTER BOLT OF THE CRANK TO DRAW THE DAMPER ON!! I snapped that bolt off in the crank; my mechanic had to weld my balancer to the crank. Either buy/rent/steal a balancer installer, or use a hammer & block of wood. Make sure you tap in the exact CENTER of the balancer; the outer ring of the balancer is attached to the inner ring by rubber. If you hit the outer ring, you'll rip the rubber, and you'll ruin the balancer.

You could also install the crank gear this way; a hammer & a piece of pipe. I used a pipe, large washers, and the center balancer screw- that was probably what ruined the threads in the crank, and caused the bolt to snap off when I tried to do the same for the balancer.

Any other q's, let me know...

------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

[This message has been edited by TomP (edited June 21, 2001).]