Well I have replaced the Fuel Filter and the car still wont start.

The filter was clogged.

Do you think it's my pump.

Is there any other things I can check?

 

Check your fuelpump fuse, then check fuel pressure. Are you sure it's a fuel problem

 

Well, I have replaced everything else.

I havn't checkedthe fuse though, good idea. All do that in a minute...

 

Dunno what to tell you....I suggested you check fuel pressure but you felt a tune up was more important.

Buy the fuel pressure guage......It will answer your fuel pump question plus you'll have an important tool for life.

 

Which fuse is the fuel pump fuse?

 

GM always has a labeling scheme for the fuses. Check the backside of the fusebox cover or something. It could be the fuel pump relay. But most definetly check the fuel pressure. If you have the MPFI engine this is easy. All you need is a ball point pen. Make sure the engine is cold and there is no source of ignition. If you hurt or kill yourself it is your own fault. There is a schrader valve on the fuel rail. It looks like the valve you use to put air in a bicycle tire. You can release the fuel pressure the same way you release air out of a bicylce tire. Make sure you have safety glasses on because if your fuel pump works, you will have gas everywhere. A better way would to by a fuel pressure gauge. Advanced Auto has them for 35 bucks.

 

I'll see if I have the time to pick up a fuel presure guage today.
That should answer my problems about the Fuel pump.

 

The fuel pump/ECM fuse will be under the hood, on the passenger side's upper frame rail (near the top of the fender). It'll have a red and brown wire going to it, and will be held on to the frame rail by a single 9/32" hex bolt (or 7mm, whichever). There's a fuse under the cover; make sure it's not blown. If it doesn't look blown, test it... sometimes a fuse can blow and still look normal. You can also click on "search" at the upper right of this screen- do a search on for my "code 54 chart" on this message board (V6 forum). It runs you through all of the electrical diagnosis for a fuel pump- it's meant to diagnose code 54, but in doing the chart, you check all the electrical hookups to the pump. Maybe it'll just be a $15 relay!

 

Tom,

What does the Fuel Pump sound Like? Will it come on before I turn the car over? or only when I try and start it?

 

to see if ur pump is priming, turn everything off in the car (radio) and then turn the key to on. you should hear a humming sound coming from the back of the car that will last about 5 secs... thats the pump priming. No sound? no fuel pump.

 

Kewl, thanks for the info

 

Ok, I checked for the fuel pump and it appears to be functioning


What else could it be?

Argggggggggggggggggggggggggg.....

 

You know the fuel pump coming on and working fine doesn't mean it is delivering enough fuel to start the car.

 

Yep; buy the FP gauge, it's a tool you'll use over and over again. Some places might rent one.

 

I'll go pick one up today....


What if it's my coil?

If it is, what coil should I buy?

 

If the FP test comes out good and your still not sure what the problem is I would buy the stock replacment. Just in case the coil is not the problem your not out the cost of an aftermarket high engery coil.

If the FP test is fine I would definetly check for good spark. It should be white not blue.

 

How can I check for spark?

 

Well there are a couple of ways the way I jave done it was with an inline spark tester. It's a little thingy ma jig that you screw onto the end of your spark plug and has a clear window that you can watch the spark jumping across.

There is a way to do it with out the inline spark tester, but I don't how. Guys like Tom should know how.

 

TIP FOR CHECKING SPARK THE RIGHT WAY :

Setting the wire near the frame and letting it ground is THE WRONG WAY. A weak, weak, spark will still be able to arc and ground to the frame.

THE RIGHT WAY is to check spark with a spark tester. It looks like a spark plug with a little clamp on the side. These typically REQUIRE 25,000-30,000 volts to fire. A weak spark will NOT be able to fire the spark tester.

 

Thats right, cause some plugs will fire out of the cylinder but under pressure they will not spark. Just keep this in mind.

 

One thing you may want to check out is the ignition modulator. if theres no juice going through that your dead in the water(No Spark). It's in the distrib, has 2 connectors on it. But if you ARE getting spark to the plugs its fine.

Just have to remember K.I.S.S. keep it stupid simple. You need 3 things for fire. spark, fuel and air. Almost always its never air so you have 2 left. So check the fuel pressure. It should be in the mid-upper 20's for idling(and priming for start..Last time I cecked mine it was like 27-29 idle) and raise when you pull the throttle. The spark works from the Ignition Modulator forward. its first in line that the ignition spark travels to, if its good go to the Ignition coil if you still have juice coming from there go to the button in your distributor. If the button spring is weak it may be arching off and lossing spark there. After the button you have the rotor then wires, then finially the plugs.

 

sorry double post..

 

When I had to cheap check, (frame ground) I judged by the intensity of the spark, If it looked similar to a arc weld spark in general I ok'd it. If it looked like a dull arc its bad. but generally I did that to check the wires(and the health of the coil/Ignition modulator) more then the plugs.

 

I'm gonna check the stuff tonight after work.

This stuff is really killin me. I need to get it fixed as soon as I can.
Being that this is my primary vehical.

Thanks for all the help...

 

Any suggestions on the manufacturer of the equipment for the Pressure guage, and spark tester.

Or just any old brand will work...

 

Any brand will work just fine. If you have a favorite one see if they make one.

 

I found my fuel pressure gauge at Sears for $40. Cheapest one I could find and it's pretty decent quality. Everywhere else I looked wanted $80 for a guage.

 

I don't belive Id spend $80 either , on something your not ganna use that often . Sears has GOOD QUALITY tools though !

 

Finally found a place that carrys the tools I need. I'm going to pick them up tonight. Then we will see what is going on....

 

Hey, I checked the Fuel pressure. It was about 43psi. Is that good or bad.

I think I remember reading that it was good.

I'm now guessing it is the coil.

I don't have spark, so I'm going with that.

That's the only thing I can think of that would be cause it not to spark...

Let me know

 

Was that at idle? throttle?... damn mine seems low comparred to that.... well my car runs fine for now... looking at a fuel pump soon...

 

Nope dude, remember, I can't get my car to start...


That is just when I attempt to start the car...

 

The fuel pressure sounds good. Have you ever checked the timing on the car? For now, I would doubt the ignition module (not modulator, haha). A common ignition module failure happens when the module overheats- you won't get spark again until the module cools. When the module gets warm again, it fails... until the car cools.

How's the EGR? If it's stuck open, the car won't start. You've got a digital one; someone here must know how to test one to see if it's stuck open.

Could the catalytic convertor or exhaust pipes be clogged?

Have you tried starting the car while playing with the gas pedal?

Do you get the service engine light when you turn the key to "on" (but not cranking)? Have you checked for error codes?

 

I'm thinkin it's the coil. I looked at it, and it seems really bad. It was covered with white powder. I will pick up a coil this afternoon and throw it in.

If that dosn't solve the problem, then I will be stumped.

The good things I got out of this was,
A. Found out a lot of things needed to be replaced (would have cause major problems later if they were not)

B. Got much better equipment in the car.

C. Learned alot of things.

D. I Enjoy smelling like Gasoline after Replacing the fuel filter.

E. I don't mind my hands being all ripped to shreds.

F. I had a good time (most of it)

G. You Guys (Memebers of Thirdgen.org) Are da Bomb.

H. Thanks for all the help, I keep everyone updated.

 

After you get your car running, go enjoy a sunset for me.
I miss Hana on Maui, ALOT!
I'll bet you have complete ignition failure.
NG coil & worn distributor stuff.
Add in timing chain, too, one day.
How many miles?

 

I have heard the "Modules" called both that and Modulators, because they actually Modulate the intensity and frequency of the initial voltage sent to the coil. So they are actually Modulators, not simple "modules" that do nothing but carry the current. But if the thing burns out, no start cause no current will be able to flow to the coil.

I have never heard of problems coming from the "module" because its hot(I have however heard of distintive probs coming from the starter selinoid from heat probs). Either it works(does its job and actuates the current flow) or it doesn't. One or the other. They also have no warning before they go out.

And "Playing" with the gas pedal while tring to start a F/I car is unadvisable cause the ECM CAN read a "Flood" condition and cut the fuel supply, not allowing the car to start. The best way to start is simply turn the key and let the computer do its job. There are alot of cars that are F/I that will refuse to start if you have the pedal to the floor. Just FYI....

 

There are 2 ways to do a quick test to see if the digital EGR is stuck open.

1.) Hold the gas pedal 1/4 of the way or so and try to start it. Don't floor it or you will have a problem like CHD described. If it starts let off the gas if it dies I'd bet you it is stuck open.

2.) pull the pipe off of the intake and cover the hole with something. Like a wadded up shop towel. Try to start it. If it starts and runs with out dieing. It is stuck open.

I wouldn't just go out and buy one to put on the car, becuase they are verry expensive. I was quoted $200.00 for a new one. So I went to the scrap yard.

Also check the gasket for that pipe if it's blocked try cleaning it with a can of parts cleaner and a soft brush. The hole on the gasket is smaller then the pipe, but it should be blocked. The gasket is a soft metal type so it can be cleaned and reused.

Just thought I would toss this in just incase the coil doesn't help.

 

Also depending on wether or not your coil has been replaced before or not it will be fun trying to ge tthe old one out. If it is still riveted in check out this thread for some tips on to get the coil free.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...669#post467669


I used a small screw driver and hamer.

 

I'm just plain fuc*ed.

Replaced coil, nothing.

Still not getting spark.

I guess it could be this modulator thingy.

1. Where is the modulator?

2. How hare to replace?

3. Any part numbers or suggestions on replacements?

I guess this will be my next step....

 

To quote the the Famous Doctor Emmit Brown


"Damn,
Damn Damn,
Damn Damn Damn."

Puppy dog face

 

It's pretty easy to replace. Remove the distributor cap 2 screws and a couple wires and your in business. Instalation is the reverse.

 

How much does the modulator cost?

 

I paid $60 for mine.
Call this number, ask for Saul, tell him Karl in a 1968 Camaro sent ya.
800-995-0296. Kay Auto, Van Nuys, CA
It's AC Delco brand, but made in China! Really, I read the label on the package.
I've replaced mine on the side of the 405 Freeway, twice!!

 

Ok, Replaced the Moudule. Nope. Nothing.

What the fu*k is going on?

I have replaced everything, what else could be stoping my spark?
I'm ready to rip my hair out.

I guess I might have to just submit and get it to a mechanic, argggg.

I'm at my last resort. I'm buring up too much gas in the Monte Carlo, I need my other Baby back to life.

Help.

 

I didn't read all the above , but I do remember someone mentioning something about the fuel pump .Have you checked that yet ? OK , this maybe a stupid question but have you checked your battery ? Of course with a dead battery it wont even turn over right ? or maybe not getting enough juice to crank up and just turns over ? Man this stinks though !

 

Hmmm, this is a tough one. Well, lets look at "possibilities". You should still try to find a spark tester to see if your ignition system is capable of 25,000-30,000 volts.

It's possible(although unlikely) that:

1) EGR valve is stuck open. (easy thing to do would be to unbolt the copper pipe that goes from the EGR to the intake)

2)Distributor is loose and has spun, thus severely advancing or retarding timing.(just grab the cap and see if you can spin it)

3)1 or more injectors are stuck closed (an engine will usually run on 5 cylinders and the odds of 2 injectors sticking at the same time is unlikely). An injector balance test would be neccesary to test injector flow and you'd have to take it to a shop.

4)Oiling system failure causing cam lobes to be worn off/piston rings blown. (possible....but doubtful)

5)Wires to the ignition coil are broken/bad connection.

6)I've seen a few 4.3's that weren't getting spark. We pulled the dist. cap and saw a POS aftermarket ignition module. We rebuilt the dist. with GM parts and the car ran perfect.

Can't think of anything else at the moment........

 

have you checked the button spring in the distrib?.(Like Iposted earlier?) Pop distrib cap off. Turn upside down. There should be a little "button" in the middle of the cap. it is held in by a small spring. The point of the spring to to make contact and keep tension between the inputwire from the coil and the center prog on the rotor. Have you checked your rotor even? try getting a replacement(Maybe 4-5 bucks) and try again.

Trouble shooting ignition...
1. have power to/from the modulator/module.
2. have power to/from coil.
3. have power to/from distributor coil hook up.
4. have contact to the rotor button AND rotor.
5. have current going through wires.
6. have final current going to the plugs
7. plugs properly gapped .43-.49 and they are known to be good. I:E; create spark.

Though I did forget to list the hard rod input from the igniton key. It makes the intial "move/approval" that ok's the the VATS is working(If equiped) and you have to proper key to operate the system and then turns the control over to the ECM. There are actually 2 ignition's to speak. 1 where your key goes, the other at the base of the column that actually turns the system on. This one is controlled by certain "rod" inputs from the KEY ignition. rarely is it that the upper column ignition goes out but the lower one DOES get out of alignment for the rod inputs and has to be replaced.
But before you go ripping your column apart try doing what bitchenRS said and blocking the intake side of the EGR system(though you can do this with 2-3 pieces of thin(cerial box) type cardboard(cut to fit) and cut the bolt holes and put the system back togeather to have it sealed.

 

Just so everyone knows, This is the List of what I have replaced...

1. Cap
2. Rotor
3. Coil (MSD Blaster)
4. Wires
5. Plugs
6. Fuel Filter
7. Ignition Module


It should be working. It definatey must be computer related, or sumptin...

 

have you checked codes? Or better yet is the ESC(Brown wire connector) hooked up? If its not the distrib will run way out...

 

How do I check for codes?