Steven89Iroc

I finally got it.
I thought I'd help out those who have been asking for more pics.
It's not on the car yet, but hopefully will be before too terribly long. My car is running again with a temporary stock L98 that we put new bearings in, so I'm thinking about giving it some boost just to see how it does on a stock engine before I put it on the engine I'm building.

Anyway, if anyone wants pics of any specific part let me know and I can take them (though I'm very busy so it could take a few days).
This is the base kit, except with .63 ar/stage III turbine sides instead of the .42 ar/stage I turbines, and the housings are ceramic coated. I did order T04E 50 trim compressor wheels, but we found out that the compressor housings weren't big enough to flow right with that large of a wheel, so I opted to stick with the T3 60 trim wheels. I can see this setup supporting 600hp without a problem, possibly a bit more in ideal conditions.
The headers look to be professionally done with nice welds and smooth collector junctions. I'm going to have these ceramic coated by Jet Hot with their 2400 degree coating in black. It's what I had them do to my Talon's turbo header and it's worked great so far.
The valve covers pretty much speak for themselves, and oh man do they look better than the stock ones. The hoses sticking up are for the turbo oil drains, and between the turbos in the pic are the oil feed lines and fittings, and the header bolts.
Sorry, but the intercooler doesn't come with the kit, I got that separate. I just had to throw it in for it to look right, hehe.

Of course I can't speak for it's performance yet, but I will in time. If you have any questions, ask and I might be able to answer them, otherwise get in contact with Edgardo (BBSDesigns) here on the boards. Oh, and if you happen to want a kit, just tell him Steven recommended him.

That's enough about that, here's the three pics that I'm allowed to post.

Steven89Iroc

driver's side

Steven89Iroc

passenger's side

DauntlessZ28

Sweet setup. Can't wait to see it on the car. As the BBSDesigns website says, it does look like spark plug changing will be as easy as he said, especially when you remove the downpipes. I bet it'll even be easier than my TES headers (can't get to #6 and #8 from the top). Now, for the barage of questions:

1. Who made the intercooler for you?
2. I can't remember if the kit comes with a y-pipe, but I don't think it does. How are you looking at going about that?
3. Any guess as to when you'll have it installed? B/c we're going to need some more pictures man.
4. How long did shipping take?

And finally,
:rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Verry nice If you need more pic's hoasted when you have it all together drop me a email. also email me and I bet I can beat JET HOTS price on Turbo X coatings for headers,turbos, and any tubing needed.

nightrider87

I'm looking at that and wondering why i put fittings in my oil pan.

B4Ctom1

so that you can run "tall" valve covers

nightrider87

I think i'm going to try to drain the oil into the valve covers. It seems like the least amount of hassle and the shorter distance and so more resistant to oil coking.

Steven89Iroc

I just remembered some things I forgot to mention.
The relocated passenger side wastegate actuator looks to be well done. The crossover bar is plenty sturdy and looks like it will do it's job nicely. It is hitting about 1mm of the downpipe bolt, but I'm sure I can bend it up ever so slightly to clear without ill consequences.
One thing that I noticed when I got it was that while the driver's side downpipe has provisions for an EGT probe, it doesn't have provisions for an O2 sensor, I definately think it should come with that. The factory sensor is on the stock manifold, so I will have no place to put it. This means that I have to have a bung welded onto the downpipe so it will work. I'll probably end up having one welded on both downpipes and plug the passenger side, so it''ll be easy to unplug and screw in a wideband when I'm on the dyno.
That's my only real complaint, but it won't be too hard to deal with.

Dauntless, it definately does look like plugs will be much easier.
As for the questions:

1) It's (ironically) a "Street Imports" intercooler, lol. The core measures 21x9x3 with a 2.5" inlet/outlets that actually measure to about 2.25" i.d. It's not quite as big as I'll ultimately have, but I got a good deal on it locally so I'm going with it for now.

2) The kit doesn't come with a Y-pipe, though it would be nice if it did. Edgardo recommends taking it to an exhaust shop and having them mate it up to the stock Y-pipe with a flex section connected by clamps. I'm thinking though, that I'm going to get some 2 or 3 bolt flanges and have them welded on so I can bolt or unbolt them as desired. That way, when I'm ready to make a custom higher flowing Y-pipe I can just make it the same way then bolt it on.

3) I still need to make all the inlet/intercooler piping which will require relocating the battery and coolant reservoir, and have to get the manifolds/downpipes ceramic coated before it goes on (that's very neccesary for more reasons than one IMO), but before that I have to get O2 bungs welded on the downpipes, then once all that's done I can install it and have the Y-pipe hooked up. All this is going on at the same time I'm building a boost-able engine so it might be a while, it's hard to say.

4) The actual shipping only took a few days from Puerto Rico to Virginia Beach, I was pleasantly surprised. It's been a few months since I ordered it, but that only took so long because of the turbo upgrade dilemma (compressor side) and hurricanes knocking out power down there, etc. Edgardo kept me updated and worked with me through it all which was very reassuring. If I needed to I'd deal with BBSDesigns again.

TPl383, thanks for the hosting offer, I might take you up on that in the future. You must have a lot of bandwidth to be hosting all these pics for everyone. We all thank you.
I'll email you about the coatings for more information.

nightrider, it really is an ingenious idea I think, I wouldn't have thought of it myself, heh.
Personally I'd rather have the satisfaction of doing the whole thing myself than buying it, but unfortunately I don't have the resources (mainly welding) to 100% build my own setup right now, let alone one that lets me keep my much loved A/C.
Keep us updated on your progress, and don't give up. You still very well might have yours done before mine, hehe.

nightrider87

I'm going the much easier modified L98 exhaust manifolds route for now. I bet i'll eventually try my hand at some real headers but I'm not too concerned about it as of yet.

Mine should be together but not running by the beginning of january. Just mocked up. Then it'll be off again and TPI383 can ceramic coat it all for me. Then come spring, I'm off to pass echeck with my fuel injection and stock exhaust and the day i come back, that's when the turbos are going on!

Steven89Iroc

Sounds good. Fortunately I'm registered in Oklahoma which doesn't even have inspections, let alone emissions testing.

nightrider87

I bet i could pass with the turbo system provided it was running through a cat anyhow.

but it all needs to be coated once its made, so i figure i might as well not chance it.

zNucleaRz

Once done you got to cruse over to Newport News so I can see it it looks killer man!

B4Ctom1

I noticed a few manufacturers instead of piping the A.I.R. to thier headers one to each runner, simply put a single line to one of the most forward primaries. if you did this you might have some O2 and EGT tuning issues (so take off the belt during tuning) but you would be federally legal and likely locally legal but it depends on your local laws. unless you live in MA, CO, or CA or any other state that does IM240 "dyno style" smog testing, its likely it would actually pass. the mixing action of the turbine with the injected air would probably be cleaner than it was stock.

Fred91GTA

Wow, that looks like an awesome setup... I've been saving up for it. I'm almost there and I'll be ordering mine soon... Just a question, I noticed on the driver's side downpipe, near the turbo connecting flange there's a small pipe sticking out... would this perhaps be for the AIR system? Does it also have a fitting on the passenger's side?

B4Ctom1

I thought those were the EGT and O2 pipes?

Fred91GTA

I thought that at first, but that little pipe seems to have a diameter that's a little too narrow for sensors.

Steven89Iroc

Yes, it's a pipe for an EGT probe, and there is only one. It's definately too small for an O2 sensor, unfortunately. That's why I said in a previous post that I'm going to have to have one (or two) O2 bungs welded on.
There aren't any provisions for AIR at all.

B4Ctom1

my suggestion was that you could simply add a single large one, even upstream of the turbo. A few smog legal header manfacturers use a single inlet for A.I.R.

Steven89Iroc

Oh I wasn't saying you couldn't do that, I was just saying that it didn't come like that.
I do like that idea though, for those that need to keep smog legal.

Fred91GTA

Hmm... I see... the AIR idea is a pretty good one... but where would I put the single large tube? If I put it upstream of the turbo, should it go under the flange right at where the two middle exhaust ports are at? What about on the downpipe downstream of the turbo? I'm in NY, so they're not as much of smog ***** as they are in CA.

Steven89Iroc

I think it would be much easier to put them on the downpipes.
I just remebered, but you would also have to relocate the big black smog box and all that if you went that route. I would think it would be a little of a pain, but very possible.

Fred91GTA

I was just thinking that too... The smog box would be a problem... Judging from the placement of the header tubes and the turbos, I think that it would be feasible for me to relocate the smog box further forward, and outward. I think I can custom make a connecting pipe to attach the smog box to the AIR pump. Then use some longer hose with heat sleeving to connect it all.

Hey Steven, when are you planning on getting yours installed? Are you planning on using any heatshields on the brake master cylinder and the AC evaporator? I imagine with those turbines sitting so close it's going to get really hot in there.

I'm also hoping that wastegate on the passenger side clears aftermarket runners.

Steven89Iroc

I think you could do the smog box that way, but be weary of moving it out and forward, as you still have to think about where to route the inlet and intake or intercooler piping, it looks like the easiest way is to go right through that area. I'm going to get a smaller radiator overflow and relocate it next the the radiator, and the inlet pipes will go through where that was to the area that used to be the battery box before the rear-relocation I have yet to do, and the inlet piping from the intercooler will come up through that area then go to the TB from there. My way leaves little room left over for other stuff, but I'm sure it can be done.

My to-do list keeps growing ever longer day by day, I don't know when I'll catch up, but I don't have much time to do anything with it right now.
I'm thinking about having an external wastegate flange welded to each header before I get it coated (I heard that ceramic coating affects the metal in such a way that you can't weld to it after it's been coated, even if stripped), then blocking them off so I can use external wastegates at a later time. I still need to do a mock fitting to do measurements, but I believe the main issue with bigger turbos fitting in there is the internal wastegate setup and how bulky it is. If I set it up for an external now, I should be able to upgrade to bigger non-internal wastegate turbos later.
On top of that, I need to get O2 bungs welded on the DP's and Y-pipe flanges as well. Then I can ceramic coat it all. There's more to do to the car than that as well, so basically I don't want to give a time estimate of when it will be installed and running because everyone knows that it always takes longer than you would have liked. I will say though that it has to be 100% functional and running with the built engine by May because I transfer from here in June and both of my cars may be going in storage for 1.25 years depending on where I get stationed. I can have it ready by then.

I haven't even started stripping down the engine I'm building yet, so that's a lot more time I have to not work on the TT setup in the car, but as I hinted at I do want to install it on the stock freshened up engine first to see how well race gas and 12 psi will do at the strip.

I do plan on using heat sheilding on the master cylinder as well as the turbine housings, but I don't believe the AC compressor will be a problem, as the compressor housings aren't the ones that create the most detrimental heat. One way or another it will be much hotter in there than stock, that's one of the major reasons for ceramic coating everything whichs helps contain heat more than one might think.

I can't say if it will clear aftermarket runners, but I don't believe it's that close in there. Edgardo might be able to tell you for sure. If you plan on using this with a built engine on TPI setup for the long term, make sure to invest in lots of traction-blessing mods and bulletproof drivetrain parts, as it would make enough low end torque to pull down a small building once the turbos spool up (which will be very quick).

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Huh, I’ve welded to ceramic coated parts before… just clean them up (sand the stuff off) and have at it with the welder

Steven89Iroc

That's what I thought, just that my friend (who has pretty much never given me false info) said something about the coating process creates some kind of chemical bond which can't be reversed. I might be a bit off on that, but something along those lines anyway. Maybe it just doesn't let the weld create quite as strong of a bond as it normally would?

BBSDesigns

Hi Steven,
I'm glad that you have your kit after the hurricanes/power down, compressor wheel/housing turbo issues, etc... I guess I could say for you that is was worth the waiting


Quote;
I'm thinking about having an external wastegate flange welded to each header before I get it coated (I heard that ceramic coating affects the metal in such a way that you can't weld to it after it's been coated, even if stripped), then blocking them off so I can use external wastegates at a later time. I still need to do a mock fitting to do measurements, but I believe the main issue with bigger turbos fitting in there is the internal wastegate setup and how bulky it is. If I set it up for an external now, I should be able to upgrade to bigger non-internal wastegate turbos later.
On top of that..

I think that you should install the kit and see for your self how crampy it is(with all the power accessories) to install external wastegates. My opinion is that you should use the kit as it is and after you get bored trade it in for the RACE Twin Turbo version


Qoute;
I can't say if it will clear aftermarket runners, but I don't believe it's that close in there. Edgardo might be able to tell you for sure.

The fit is very tight, see for yourselfs on the picture. But again the plate holding the valve can be modified, bended, elongated to make clearance.


Quote;
If you plan on using this with a built engine on TPI setup for the long term, make sure to invest in lots of traction-blessing mods and bulletproof drivetrain parts, as it would make enough low end torque to pull down a small building once the turbos spool up (which will be very quick)...

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BBSDesigns

How do you guys make to include multiple quotes in one single replied message without making the mess I just did?
Mark, any suggestions?

Steven89Iroc

I usually just copy&paste the quotes and change the name and message, though there might be an easier way.

Thanks for chiming in.
I was going by the pictures I've seen of the kit on the engine only as far as clearances because I've yet to see the kit on a car, so that was mostly an idea for now anyway like I said. I'm not worried about it too much as 60 lb/min of airflow capability will last me a while yet.
I'm not going to get a race kit, by the time I'm ready to upgrade I'll have the resources to make my own kit, no offense. I would still like to keep the AC with 1000hp worth of twin turbos, I've thought about relocating all the AC components or retro-fitting another AC system into the car, but that's a long way off.

Wow, that pic does show that it is very close to the runner. Thankfully for me I don't care for upgrading TPI so I'm going with a Stealthram instead. It sounds like it's the best option for others as well. Building-moving low-end torque usually doesn't make for a fast thirdgen anyway.

BTW, did you ever make new turbo-header gaskets to send?

BBSDesigns

No offence at all, non taken
The laser machine is down, some guys from "Laser Lab" came to take care of the problem. As soon I get them, I'll send them

I learned one thing, big horsepower #'s go hand in hand with simplicity. For me, having 600 hp or more at the wheels equals a clean engine bay with the minimum accesories. Because when things get nasty you want to dismantle and re-assemble everything as quick and trouble free as possible. I'll just leave the A/C part to my go around second car just my opinion.

PS: I saw the thread before, is just that sometimes I barely have time to sit down and write down something.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

No good reason for that if you clean the surface off well… probably the most common place to do this is with emissions fittings on headers, ex, 4th gen hooker long tubes and a few others have an air fitting that seems to break off all the time, usually an easy fix for someone OK with a welder… a lot of people end up welding up the slip joint on the same headers.

I spend enough time on lists and boards that at one point I sat down and automated this kind of stuff… I type all my responses in word and then just drag it in. In word I’ve created icons/scripts to quote and unquote blocks of text.

You could just cut and past or even type the the VB code to do it also, click here if you’re not familiar with it

I won’t try typing what I do since it will just be interpreted as code by the board, but here’s a screen shot of this being typed:

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I definitely agree with this…which is why I was surprised when you started offering a your race kit with twin turbos… making things more complicated. Now you have to mess with 2 of everything in the way if you have to get into the engine.

Steven89Iroc

You know, I've always agreed with simple = better, not for just performance but everything else as well.
I guess though that I'm just stubborn and want to have a powerful good looking symmetrical turbo setup and at the same time be able to cruise down the road in 90 degrees with 95% humidity in relative comfort. It'll cost a lot more money this way, but it's doable. Maybe I just want to prove that you can build a reliable, driveable, powerful, relatively comfortable thirdgen that looks good while doing it. Like I said, I'm stubborn.

I've been thinking of building another more race-oriented turbo hardtop IROC in the future though, that one would be a much simpler yet effective "street legal" race car, and also the car I would take to track events. We'll see.

If you and others have welded with success on parts that had been ceramic coated previously and they've lasted any reasonable amount of time, that's enough proof for me so I won't worry about it.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

If you are looking for an intercoller setup maybe you could have looked into ATI's intercoller setup it fits the thirdgen very well, and is pretty cheap at 1150 with all the piping , you would just need to add the turbo connections

Steven89Iroc

LOL
No thanks.

BBSDesigns

I guess that you are refering to the single turbo setup for "V" belt vs. the the TT kit right? The thing is that although that that kit (single V belt) is a proven race and street kit with no need for a twin turbo since it can be turbo up-graded up to a T76 size turbo still with some hood clearance and high HP capability, I built and designed the race twin turbo kit with road racing and hard core drag racers in mind. The smaller turbine wheels spool faster with the smaller A/R housings ( A/R.50/"O" shaft, my personal preference combination, but TT kit can be done to the buyers request) making it ideal for those looking for better throttle response applications. I am also a simetrical kind of guy and for me everything is better if they come in pairs But to be true, the main reason for developing the kit was the demand for it, people where driving me crazy, but ironically the single turbo kit is still the "BEST SELLER".


Steven,
You are not stubborn, is just that I dont mind driving while sweting my heart out. You want me to be honest with you, hear this; When I bought the 89' GTA it was complete with running A/C and everything, but since I was decided that I was going to put twin snails on it and was not going to go thru all the hassle of designing a TT kit that would fit with the A/C I just removed all the A/C components Then I came out with the Street & Strip TT kit and EVERYONE was asking me why I trashed the A/C on my project car if I could have kept it along with the TT, well you want to know how I felt, NO you dont. So I said then "the hell with the A/C!! Its to late now". Besides the GTA has T tops, so on sunny days I just remove them and cruise with the A/NC (A/NC stand for; "Air Not Conditioned") that enters inside the car while hearing the BOV bursting air out with every shift and the fine whine of the turbo wheels spooling up

nightrider87

Yeah... he probably couldn't use most of the piping and thats 900 dollars more than i have in my intercooler.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

That’s fine, you can be stubborn all you want and I'm not picking on you but if you are you have to realize that you’ll either have to do it yourself or pay someone to do it the way you want it.

There isn’t a good reason why twins vs single can’t be done one way or another, AC or even all the factory accessories couldn’t be retained, but you will have to realize that leaving that stuff doesn’t really add to the complexity (it’s still the same problem) but it does add very significantly to the amount of time/work it takes to fit everything. Leaving the AC and associated plumbing means that someone has to be willing to repeatedly disassemble and reassemble all that stuff to make everything fit. I’d bet that leaving the AC and assorted plumbing that many of us ditch would result in it taking 2-3x as long to fit everything up and make it work.

At this point I’ve built a few custom turbo setups for people, some custom supercharger setups and installed an assortment of other people’s kits… You have to realize that BBS is doing something that I’ve said that I didn’t think anyone would do, and was my argument why prior to him we had people turn up every few months telling us that they’d offer whatever turbo setup or manifolds or whatever for $xxx and I always at best told them “I’ll believe it when I see it.” and then we never heard from them again. (and this was the reason that I was somewhat skeptical when BBS first turned up):
To be competitive with supercharger setups, most turbo kit makers have to offer their product at a smaller margin then the comparable supercharger setups, while offering something that has all the complexity of a supercharger kit, headers, cat back… all rolled into one. Add to that, the f-body market, especially the 3rd gen f-body market doesn’t have the same margins as many others… a great example is that it’s difficult to sell 3rd gen turbo stuff for the same price as Honda stuff, but the fact is that the 3rd gen stuff has 2x the hardware and 2x the work as the comparable Honda setup…

That leaves some slim pickings for someone to offer something and still make a profit, and why wouldn’t they be tempted to go and make Honda or other setups for 2x the profit?

Go and price out what some of the setups out there cost people, at the top of my mind right now for one reason or another is the Stillen blower setup for an Infinity G35 (long story, but I’ve been looking at prices for these things for someone in the last few days). Take and add the price for some headers, exhaust and a few misc items to make that comparable to the changes you make with a turbo setup and add up the prices… Suddenly numbers that are far in excess and possibly many times that which most of us paid for our 3rd gens are starting to look like they would be in the correct ballpark for a complete “bolt on” (in the loosest sense of the word, I’ve never seen a truly bolt on setup) setup.

The custom and install work that I’ve done has been pretty much for a flat rate… you agree to the rate and what you’re getting for that rate, and then it takes what it takes. If you want something more elaborate that takes longer and you run out of money part way through… well, that’s it. Check to see what speed/custom/fab shops charge for labor and then look at what the typical bolt on supercharger setup takes to install… then figure how much longer it will take someone to actually build a turbo setup (they’ll have to do all the disassembly and reassembly that it takes to bolt on a supercharger setup + deal with the exhaust + making he actual parts…).

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

That right there is actually the second reason that I don’t agree with your reasoning there. The fact is that for the hardcore applications, drag racing/road racing, in most cases slightly slower response is a non issue… run a bigger converter, dump some extra fuel, scramble boost, a 2 step… these cars won’t see that slower response anywhere but in the pits. At that point make them as simple (and reliable) as possible.

Add in the fact that it really is difficult to package a reasonably sized down pipe on the driver’s side without changes to the braking system or living with heating things up that really shouldn’t see heat and effecting ground clearance (both of which would be a party foul for the only application that I could see the faster response of the smaller turbos being really beneficial, a tight road course), I’m not sure that it really solves anything.



That is really the only reason that makes sense… for whatever reason the “twin turbo” deal really seems to catch people’s attention much more then just “turbo.” I’ve actually found that many more people are interested in a twin setup that doesn’t fit as well and has limitations then a single that can be made to fit perfectly and match people’s goals perfectly.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

It may be true but when you get into mandrel bending your own 3 inch diameter piping and all the time it will take to fit it and finesse it in, Im sure it wont be cheap, unless you have ascess to your own bender. I was just making the point the intercooler setup fit and finish is very good, and eliminates the hassles of bending and fitting it yourself. And dont forget to take into account why BBSDesigns doesnt include the intercooler setup in the kit Im thinking it isnt as easy to fabricate as some would think....... Single turbo or a centrifical supercharger kit is so much more economical and easier accomplished, I wonder why so many get so wound up to go twin, in my opinion its more expensive and more trouble than its worth.If you had the single turbo setup the ATI kits would be an excellent choice. On the other hand If you went twin Im sure it was for the wow factor because a single turbo is more than adequate for any application, well unless your running in the 6s

Twelvz

got that already huh...cool

we'll have to get together and talk, swing by...I finally got my AFR's in

BBSDesigns

Hi IROCZ1989,

The main reason I dont include intercoolers with the kits is because the Camaros and Firebirds are not equally made, some have the battery located in one side, charcoal canister in the other, etc...I would have to have several jigs for the different applications, Ahh and also not everyone buys a kit for a Camaro or Firebird. I always tell my customers that It's even easier to go to a muffler shop with the car and turbo already installed and tell the guy at the shop to bend some pipes for the intercooler accordingly. Also, not all customers are willing to even make the slightest bend or cutting into the sheet metal of their cars, required to fit an intercooler in most cars, so thats why I leave to them if they want to run an intercooler or not. I think that intercooling is the easiest and funnest part to do about turbo builidng. You are working with just thin wall pipes, some hoses and elbows, I really enjoy just figuring out how to route the pipes from the turbo to the throttle body.

The V belt single turbo kit is an awesome kit, it gives you the opportunity to retain the A/C while having a turbo capable of big numbers, but thats just for V belt equiped cars. Steven's Iroc Z is serpentine belt equiped, so he would have to eliminate the A/C in order to install the kit. The other option if he wanted to go with the A/C and turbo, was to go with the serpentine single turbo kit. But I honestly have to say that If I had to choose between the Street & Strip TT kit and the Serpentine Belt single turbo kit I would choose the Street & Strip TT Kit any day of the week. The reason for this is mainly because of fitment. The Serpentine belt single turbo kit fits much more crampier than any other of the kits. The turbo that can be used in that kit is no larger than a 60-1 hi fi, so there you have limited power if compared to the "V" belt single turbo kit and also to the twin turbo. Also access to the plugs is also more difficult. In resume if someone is deciding from the serpentine belt single turbo kit and the Street & Strip TT kit I would give the later the green light.

Some of you may think about the heat in the braking system is a problem because of the additional turbo located on the driver's side, well that's why engineers invented heat shields, shielding tapes and turbine housing blankets, etc...

Twin turbo vs single turbo, both have their disadvantages and advantages one from the other in assembly. Twin turbo spool faster and build boost faster than a single turbo in "V" engine configuration, there's no need for a crossover pipe to "fill up" like in a single turbo. Its also true that is minimal the time it takes to build boost between the single turbo and twin turbo, but again the twin turbo is for those looking for the winning edge. Twin turbo may seem more complex, but its not. If you where going to disassemble the engine or part of the engine its not much more difficult than a single turbo. The inlet pipes are easy to disconnect and to connect on both applications, just loosen the clamps and off you go. On twin turbo each turbo has a down pipe which are easy to remove. In a single turbo you have the turbo's downpipe and a crossover pipe which needs to be removed also. Turbos are removed by loosening four bolts, just four bolts more on the twin turbo than from the single turbo. Both have headers on each side that need to be removed. Oil inlets and returns are both easy to connect and disconnect. In twin turbo you just put one header on each side tighten them, put the turbos on top, downpipes and you are done. In single turbo you need to assemble the passenger's side header first, then the driver's side header but without tightening completely the bolts. Then place the crossover pipe with clamp with the three bolts and then thigten everything up, driver's header and crossover.
In resume I have done this "a few" times and I think there's not much difference from one or the other.

Steven89Iroc

Not much time to reply right now, but yeah, piping is not all that hard, and actually quite fun (being that I did it with my Talon already). nightrider is right, I would end up having to fab some of the system anyway because it's designed for a single Procharger which is in a different location than both of the twin turbos. I bought the IC never-used from someone locally for $230 and at the most the pipes/couplings/clamps will cost me $250, and that's buying pre-fabbed mandrel bends with couplings to attach them. That's a far cry cheaper than $1100 which I would have to modify anyway.
If you don't like twins over a single that's your preference, I already stated mine.

Rob, that's cool, I've been wondering about that. I'm gonna be at the Hobby Shop probably all day Saturday because both cars need some work done, are you doing anything Sunday?

BBSDesigns, I agree with 83 Crossfire TA in that twins aren't typically desired in all out drag, usually people that build cars for all out drag racing have auto's, and they're under full boost all the way down the track anyway so they aren't worried about a little slower spool. For road racing however, I can see it making more of a difference, but equivalently sized twins vs. single won't spool all that much different still. For the street however, lots of people like every bit of quicker spool they can get, myself included. I'm not terribly worried about it though, because afterall it's still a V8 even without the turbos. If someone wants to complain about turbo lag on a 5.7 V8, I'll gladly let you come over and drive my low compression 2 liter 4 banger with a big single to show you what turbo lag really is (as long as you let me drive your equivalently powerful car).

Anyway, now I'm late, see ya.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Steve, I didnt say I dislike twins , I said its not practical for anything less than 6 seconds, and even then their are turbo mustangs in the 6s with a single. Im sure the twins will look cool, and I wish you the best of luck with your project. Just was wondering if you considered the single turbo BBS designs sells and the aftermarket centrifical kits, and if you did why did you go twins?

Steven89Iroc

Okay, I kind of took it as you not liking twins.
Twins are practical enough for me. :shrug:
The twins vs. single debate has been beaten to death, I stated the reasons why I went with twins over a single earlier in the thread, so I don't feel the need to reiterate.
The supercharger vs. turbo debate has also been beaten to death, so without going into the same reasoning that's been explained a thousand times, I'll just say that I prefer turbos anyday.

Now, let me write myself a list of what I need to do before the kit can go on the car with this stock engine now that the car is back up to 100% and running great.

Re-locate heater diverter valve (emissions crap is already gone, which all weighs 13.5 lbs BTW)
Trial-fit it on the car so I can figure out where I need to mount DP/Y-pipe flanges
Bend TPI fuel lines to clear (not sure why I need to do that yet, guess I'll find out)
Get DP/Y-pipe flanges/gaskets and O2 bungs
Modify (cut) DP's/Y-pipe so I can have my friend weld on the flanges
Send Mani's/DP's off to be ceramic coated
Re-locate battery to rear w/Summit relocation kit
Re-locate charcoal canister
Order ~$250 worth of mandrel bent piping/couplings/clamps
Find some 1G DSM BOV's/flanges, have friend weld on to IC pipes
Install IC by itself
Cut/modify pipes/car for IC setup
Go to Home Depot Racing for flexible aluminum turbo inlet pipes
Order two K&N cone filters
Order boost gauge/replacement dual-pod A-pillar
Order header wrap for the DP's only, sheilding for the master cylinder/AC
Order NGK plugs with a 2-steps lower heat range
Make aluminum heat sheilds for the turbine housings
At this point I think it'll be physically ready to bolt on the car, then...

Install TT kit
Install Vortech in-line fuel pump
Install TPI AFPR
Install new spark plugs
Install boost gauge/replacement dual-pod A-pillar
Install nemerical A/F ratio gauge
Install PCV check valve
Prime turbos
Fire it up
Check for leaks
Test drive and pray to the turbo gods that I won't see 20 PSI the first time I floor it.


I'm sure there's more I forgot, but that's the basic idea. Lots of work still ahead, there is.
If you noticed, I didn't say injectors or FMU, or an MSD-6 BTM, due to financial restrictions/engine budget at this point. If I find that there is no way that I can run 12 psi on race gas with stock ignition (well, with a Blaster coil), then I will get an MSD-6 BTM right then. As far as fuel, 116 octane goes a LONG way compared to 93, and I think I could manage to crank up the FP enough to where it idles pig rich but supplies adequate fuel with the 116 at WOT.
This, of course, being only for a few passes down the 1/4 mile to really see what a stock boosted TPI can do (on street tires), then the boost will go back down to ~6 for pump gas.

Once that's completed, I should have the built engine ready to drop in, and I'll have saved enough by then to order the MSD-6 BTM (if I didn't buy it previously), injectors (to which I already have the means to get a chip burned for), and an HSR, then I can push it as far as the '165 MAF ECM lets me (umm, yeah). I'm thinking about pulling the S-AFC out of the Talon since it doesn't really need it anymore (DSMlink), then installing it into the Camaro as a temporary bandaid to cheat more airflow signal capability out of the MAF until I get some real engine management. I'm not looking further than that at this point as it's plenty enough to do for a while, but eventually it'll go much further.

This post was mainly meant to help me get my thoughts sorted, but I figured I'd put it on here for all to see, so you know exactly where I'm headed. As always plans change some, but this is the plan for now. If anyone has any suggestions or additions, feel free to let me know, I'm always open to consider fresh input.

Twelvz

i watched football on Sunday and washed my black one, getting ready to sell it.
and researching kmembers. get my number from Pat, swing by anytime

Steven89Iroc

Alright, I was sick Sunday (and still am) so I didn't do anything anyway. I'll get your # and we'll figure it out.

jksstar

Steven89Iroc, did you use to post on racing pensacola ?

89JYturbo

Hey Steve, I seen in you 'To Do' List that you want to relocate the battery using a Summit kit. Just be for-warned that it may not pass tech inspection at your local track because it isn't sealed. I used that kit on my car, and some of the tech inspectors were giving me a hard time (my local track is Maple Grove- they're pretty serious about following the rules). They told me to use a Moroso sealed battery box. Just trying to save you the hassle!

Steven89Iroc

jksstar, yep that was me, ALLTRBO.

89JYturbo, I am aware of that, but thank you for the warning anyway. The dragstrips I go to don't care too much (one of them doesn't even have a tech), and when it becomes an issue later on I will buy the Moroso box to replace it with. That's an expensive piece compared to the Summit kit, just trying to save money right now.