Hi guys! I have a problem with my RS.I replaced a new fuel pump today thinking it went bad.Damn if it wasn't just a waste of time.

Yesterday my RS died in traffic.After it set for awhile it started up and ran for a few minutes then stalled agian.After loading it onto the in-laws car hauler and dragging it home..we both came to the conclusion the fuel pump wasn't up to par.

After ripping my car apart to remove the pump and exchange it for a new one(in the rain),running my *** all over this area trying to get the new one and installing it....it wasn't the fuel pump!
The car will run for a few minutes then just quit! I checked for spark on the wires end and found nothing.Then...it would run,then quit,run,quit,etc,etc,etc......
Well,we changed the coils with one the in-law had in the garage and it worked.Hell it ran for 30 minutes or more then quit.No spark.
With the key on I have 12V to the coil but nothing to the plugs.Then a few minutes later I have spark to the plugs

So....I know it has to be in the dist some where.Pick up coil,ignition module or cap/rotor.
Do either of these have the possibilities to cause this?If the Ignition mod goes bad can it still send juice to the coil?How about the pick up coil?
I've never seen a cap/rotor work then just quit...work then quit.
I'm confused on this one.I have to drive the in-laws POS escort for now.
I need help guys PLEASE!!!

 

Kevin, i cant remember the year on your camaro? Whats the year? If its an MAF, check that. Try unplugging it and letting the car run.. if it doesnt die your MAF is dead...

 

Ouch, sorry to hear about the fuel pump. It could definately be the module.. a bad module usually acts fine until it heats up, and then you get no spark- until the module cools down again.

I had started to type up a diag chart for a kid with a Monte Carlo that had no spark- but he was an ***, and I didn't bother to finish it. I'll see if I can find the half-typed email tomorrow at work, and if I can, I'll post it up. But I'd say yeah, rebuild the distributor. Keep in mind that an Accel or Holley spark module usually costs the same as a stock replacement module. (You can't buy a performance pick-up coil, all it does is pick up magnetic pulses; no way to improve it.)

 

or you can get a really expensive digital multimeter and check the frequency of the MAF

see what i learn in school

 

Or, hehe, spend $15 at SunPro's website, and buy their "closeout" on their Sensor Tester. I have one, works nice enough. They came out with a "Sensor Tester Plus" (or something like that), which does more functions, so they've been trying to get rid of the older unit for a few years now. I'm surprised it's still there!

 

Thanks guys. It sounds like Tom hit the nail on the head.I have an accell ignition module on it now.The in-law still thinks it might be the coil.
When the ignition module heats up...stops the spark...can it still supply 12V's to the coil?
When I have no spark at the plugs I still have power on the coil.Thats what is confusing me.

 

The coil actually gets it's power from the ignition key! That's how the whole ignition system powers up, from the gray connector, via the pink/black wire. Hm, let me see if I can find that file...

Okay, here it is... ignore the bits of typing where you can tell that I was wary of this kid's mechanical ability... I know that you can work on a car safely!

.................................................................
On the distributor’s four pin connector, here’s the wire color/descriptions:

Connector pins facing you, connector clip facing UP. Terminals are labeled, from left-to-right, D, C, B, A. Wire colors from left to right should be D=white (ckt 423), C=purple/white (430), B=tan/black (424), A=black/red (453).

Inside the ECM: D is the EST control wire. C is the spark reference signal. B is the EST by-pass (used to set the timing). D is an internal ECM ground. Don’t check the signals from the ECM unless you know what you’re doing, or you can fry the ECM.

If you remove the negative battery terminal, and then unhook the ECM connectors, you could probe these wires for continuity, to make sure they’re not cut in half between the computer and distributor. The connectors should NOT be attached to the ECM while performing a continuity test. On my ’86 GM book, it shows the following:

423 White (distrib pin D) going into ECM connector B4 (row B is on the smaller 24-pin ECM connector)

430 Ppl/white (distrib pin C) going into ECM connector B5

424 tan/black (distrib pin B) going into ECM connector D5 (row D is on the larger 32-pin ECM connector)

453 black/red (distrib pin A) going into ECM connector B3

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Let me give you some easy stuff to check out before you run the chart.

First: By you continuing to read further, you agree that I am NOT responsible for what happens to you/your car/your friends/etc. Do not attempt anything that you’re not sure of. If you’re not sure, bring the car to a certified professional mechanic.

Second: You know how to check for spark, right? John told me that he showed you guys this. Put a screwdriver inside a plug wire. Lay the screwdriver so the metal of the shaft is NEAR something on the car, like a fender. Then you crank the engine, and look for spark. This way you don’t KILL yourself by getting shocked. Got it?

Third: Pull the gray connector off the ignition coil. There’s two wires on there, pink/black and black/white. Put your ignition key on. Check the pink/black wire for voltage. You should get 12 volts. This is how your whole ignition system powers up! If you don’t get 12 volts to the coil, you don’t get 12 volts to the distributor.

Fourth: (Turn the car off, obviously) Pull off the 2-wire connector from the distributor, and remove the black connector from the ignition coil. I want you to check these wires for continuity; that means, there’s no internal break in these wires. This is covered in step 4 of the chart, but you can eliminate a problem faster by checking this before doing the chart. If the wires are okay, put this mini-harness back on the car.

Fifth: Do the “wiggle test”. NEVER touch a spark plug wire or coil wire while you do this test. Have someone crank the motor while you wiggle the wires going into the back of the distributor, and at the coil. If the motor starts up, you’ve got an internal break somewhere in these wires, and by wiggling them, you’ve made the wires make contact.


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Alright, here’s the chart. You need a multimeter (can be analog, but DON’T measure ECM voltage using an analog meter- use a digital for that)

1. Check for spark on TWO spark plug wires. This makes sure that one of your wires isn’t ****ed up.
1a. Got spark? Check fuel, plugs, etc
1b. No spark? Go to 2.

2. Disconnect the 4 terminal distributor connector, and check for spark.
2a. Got spark? Pull the distributor and replace the pick-up coil. This means that
the pick-up coil output is too low for the ignition system to operate. In
case you don’t know, the pick-up coil is NOT the spark coil. The pick-up
coil is internal to the distributor. A Haynes manual from Pep Boys would
show you how to replace this.
2b. No spark? Go to 3.

3. Reconnect the distributor’s 4-terminal connector. Pull the spark coil wire off the distributor end (center wire, of course). Check for spark.
3a. Got spark? Check/replace distributor cap & rotor.
3b. No spark? Go to 4.

4. Disconnect the two terminal connector from the distributor. Turn the ignition switch to “on”, but don’t crank the engine. This is the switch position right before crank, where your dash lights come on. At the distributor HARNESS 2-pin connector, check for voltage between each of the two terminals and ground. As you look at the distributor harness 2-pin connector, with the terminals FACING you, and the connector clip UP, the “C” terminal is on the left. The “+” terminal is on the right. They might be labeled on the connector.
4a. Both terminals at 10 volts or more? Go to 5.
4b. The “C” terminal is under 10 volts? Check for an open or short-to-ground
in the circuit from the “C” terminal to the ignition coil’s black connector,
terminal “A”. These –ARE- marked on the black coil connector. This
means your distributor isn’t giving a “spark!” signal to the spark coil.
4c. Both terminals under 10 volts?? Repair wire from the “+” terminal (distrib
harness side) to the “B” terminal on the ignition coil’s black connector.
Then, re-do this step #4! This means your distributor isn’t getting any
power from the spark coil.

5. Reconnect the two terminal connector. With ignition on, check voltage between the tach terminal to ground. In case you don’t know, this tach terminal might be taped back in the engine harness. Don’t bother finding it. It comes off of the GRAY spark coil connector, and it’s the black/white wire, pin “A” on the gray connector. Pierce the insulation and probe the wire that way.
5a. 1 to 10 volts? Replace the module, and check for spark again. If no spark,
then replace the spark coil too, it’s probably faulty.
5b. Under 1 volt? You didn’t pierce the insulation enough; you’re not making
a good enough contact with the tach wire.
5c. Over 10 volts? Go to 6.

6. Connect a test light from between the tach terminal (gray spark coil connector, pin “A”) to ground. Crank the engine and watch the light.
6a. Light blinks? Replace the ignition coil and re-check for spark. If no spark,
reinstall the original spark coil, and replace the distributor module.
6b. Light on Steady? Go to 7!

7. There’s much more to type, but it’s all basically testing out the ignition module and the pick-up coil further. There is ONE thing left on the chart that your buddy could check out- make sure the module is grounded properly.
............................................

Have fun!

 

check this:https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=62274

 

I got er licked now! Thanks guys! It was the ignition module.

I talked with the mechanic at the plant about the module.He told me the module will send juice to the coil even if it is bad.It works on the negitive side of the spark.One way to test the module is to find the positive connection on the coil and have someone crank the engine over.With a test light,touch the positive side of the coil.If the light flashes then the module is working fine.

I tried this.With no spark at the plugs the light burned without flashing.When I had spark at the plugs the test light flashed like a SOB.
I threw a new(oem for now,$20) module in,along with a new cap/rotor and wires.The RS runs great.

I owe you guys a big thanks.

 

good to hear Kevin,
my way was $1000 estimated
Horst

 

Glad it worked out! And how the hell did ya get an OEM module for $20??? Man, I paid $60 for my Borg Warner stock replacement, before I knew the Holley & Accel modules were also $60. Damn.

 

I'm almost wondering if my module might've been what killed it last week, also getting hot enough to drain power, but not die maybe. when applying the dielectric/heat-sink grease, is it best to put just enough to cover the metal surface lightly or put lots on?

 

I'm not sure if how much is needed.I used all of the grease included with the module.It helps the module stay cool by letting the distributer absorbe the heat it gives off.

Tom,the module isn't the greatest.It gets my moving for now untill I can replace the accel module.I can really feel the difference between the oem and the accel module.The RS seems alittle slower.

Northernautoparts.com has the accel modules for $40.

UHHH....do you have the 4 pin module?if so forget what I just said about $40 $66.99 in the northern catalog.

 

4 pin? I have the 8 pin...

 

my 76 bonneville has the 4-pin module

 

OK Tom,thats the same module I have.It's$40 for the Accel module in Northernautoparts.com But they don't have a part number listed for it.