What about using the 305 votec heads? < casting number101081 >.Obviously they wont have the numbers as the ones used in CHP becasue of valve size but how much tuning would that lesson?

 

Hey welcome aboard! The 305 vortec heads share pretty much nothing with thier big brother. They are no better than stock smogger heads. Its too bad that they are still called vortec because they are garbage. Too bad because they would be a perfect match for our cars if they had the same runner size and design as the 350 versions.

 

get the world products for your 305. not vortec

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...41&prmenbr=361

 

Better yet is to get some 416's or 081's.

 

What was the hp on the 305 vortec engine. I bet it was more than the LO3 it replaced. It wasn't just the port fuel injection either. I don't know how good the heads are but I bet they are better than the stock LO3 heads, probably a close match for the 305 tpi heads. If I remember correctly the 305 vortec made about 230hp and that was with a very mild came compared to the biggest 305 tpi cam which made 235hp with a SD system and dual cats.

Steve

 

Everything I have read about them says they suck. Even the mags. They have even said TPI heads are much better. They are better than the LO3 heads but not by much.

 

Here is one old post that I have dug up.

305 vortec heads

 

on the S/r Torquer heads..can i use the pre 87 bolt pattern on my 89 305 block? will htis just affect my manifold and acc. choices?

 

It will affect manifold choices (can be made to work though) but more importantly valve train. The pre 87's are set up for non self allinging rockers. No big deal and there are ways around this but those heads now come in pre and post 87 castings.

 

incase you guys couldnt tell this is my first engine rebuild, hop up what ever. i bought an 89 camaro RS with a spotless interior and exterior and 92K on the engine for a grand. i went with it becasue i heard SBC were a dime a dozen and parts are cheap. i htought it would be a good car start with. i appreciate all the help

 

shifty, the reason i ask is because i have to offers at a set of bare pre 87 castings cheap. and the later 87 castings are more expensive new. as long as i go with the right manifold and valve covers will the older ones work?

 

Make sure that they are the Torquer 305's with the 58 cc chambers. They make a larger chamber version for 350+ applications as well. They will work fine but you will have to convert your valvetrain to an older style. I am sure Dewey will chime in and give you the break down.

 

so will the cost and work of converting to an older valve train worth it to save say $100 bucks on the heads?

 

what are 416 and 081?

are they better then the world torqers?

whats the max lift? i need specs! lol

 

I would actually look at a set of 305 TPI heads. You would want the 081 castings. Everything would be a direct swap over and you can get them as low as $100 out the door. A little spring work and you can have some really good heads for cheap.

 

can you give me the whole csting number so i can start looking for them... man you guys are great..heh

 

I missed your posts before I responded ^

The 081 are the 305 TPI heads. the 416 are the older pre 87 305 heads found on just about every f-body and GM car. There were found on HO cars, L69 cars, monte's ect. Any mid 80's 305 car pretty much had them. They are limited to .480 lift like any other GM casting. They can however be fitted with larger valves and perform awesome with some port work. You can usually do all of that for less than the Worlds out the door.

 

Check right under the valve cover. The last 3 digits will say 416 or 081. Or look for ads where they say off of a 305 TPI car past 1987.

 

dumb question..but you guys are being very patient with me.. my camaro has TBI it wont have the 081 catings will it?

 

No. The 305 TBI and TPI motors had different heads. The 305 TBI heads are garbage and are plagued with swirl port design.

 

hey chaotic, i think we got the exact same cars

89 rs tbi's.


maybe we can make this a project for both of us.. to get new heads and see gains.

of the two. 416 or 081.. what is better?

and you would just need new valves, we can get a new max lift? cuz the cams im looking at have over that lift.


Grind: 270
Lift: .495''/.502''
RPM Range: 1600-5400

Grind: 82
Lift: .510''/.520''
RPM Range: 2200-5800

of coarse, i know only basic cams and what the lift is. i just assume bigger is better.

and the higher rpm range means choppier idle?

but not lets get off track.

except for maybe answering that rpm range question

 

if i get a set of tpi heads from a wreck yard i can take them to a machine shop, have them ported, what spring work should i have done?

 

The 416 and 081 heads are virtually the same head minus the desing differnces that came out when the 87 motors came out. They used self aligning valve trian and differnent intake bolt pattern. They are on par performance wise but you shoudl choose the ones based on the year motor you have for ease of instalation. You can use 416's but you have to do more to them to work. The 081's are literally a bolt on for our cars. When you have a mahcine shop check them, have them look for cracks along with if the head is warped or not. They can do machine work to fit larger valves if you want or they can do seat work to allow you to run more than a .480" lift cam.

 

i bought this car a year ago a week before i deployed to afghanistan. now the money i saved is buring a whole in my pocket. heh.....TraviZ what are your plans with yours?

 

by the end of summer, i want headers-3"y pipe to cutout, heads, cam and intake manifold, read my sig, i havnt done much. i just got the cutout valve waiting to be installed.

i also have a zex nitrous kit im modding to fit the tbi. but im not rushing it cuz i dun wanna *** anything up

 

By the way I have looked at 350 and 305 vortec heads side by side. The only difference is intake valve size and chamber size. The chamber is shaped the same, the ports are identical, etc. I have heard they only flow about 6% less than the equivalent 350 vortec head. It would be interesting to see someone flow a stock head. The vortec 305 was rated 230 hp and 290 ft/lbs vs the 350s 255 hp and 330ft/lbs. The vortec 305 usually had single cats and the 350 duals.

 

Well now i cant decide between S/R Torquer 305 heads, and Vortec 305 heads. hmmm....

 

sounds like worlds would be easier bolt on, and with some port polishing, it would be a real good deal.
even though we need every ounce of hp out of our 305's

maybe i will get worlds, u get the vortecs and we can see what happens

 

Go with the Worlds over 305 vortecs any day. Remember too, that if you get vortec heads you need a matching vortec intake manifold which usually run about $300. Keep that in mind, go with the Worlds or a set of 081's.

 

With the vortecs you'll lose the egr function unless you use the vortec tbi intake and external egr kit. As for other vortec intakes they range anywhere from $180 to $270. If you were to use the vortec heads you could go with an Edelbrock performer carb intake and a tbi to carb adapter. If the heads are cheap enough then the cost with the intake would be close if not cheaper than the World heads.

Steve

 

the increased outcome prolly wouldnt justify the price as if you just went with worlds right?

 

Eh... not necessarily true. It is hard to beat the performace people are getting out of their vortec set-ups. However, you can get the same performance with the worlds and you can bolt them on and go with a bigger cam right out of the box. Plus, both really like to be ported

 

actually im working out a deal on some 801's that have been ported and polished and have new springs studs and rocker arms. depends on how much he wants

 

Buy them. You will be happy.

 

did the 801s only come on post 87 tpi motors?

 

The 081's came on 87 thru 92 305 TPI cars and 87 LG4 cars.

 

Grind: 270
Lift: .495''/.502''
RPM Range: 1600-5400

Grind: 82
Lift: .510''/.520''
RPM Range: 2200-5800

Um....you guys live in Cali? Don't you have emissions there too? Lift might be a little high to pass the sniffer don't you think?
Max I have seen for 50 state legal is like .480(?)

 

Grind: 264
Lift: .487''/.495''
RPM Range: 1200-5200

how bout that one?

 

i think withgood tuning it w*ould pass. but i would really prefer the 270grind.

i would love the 82 grind, but that is a lil extreme.

 

Don't worry so much about the lift. What is the duration and LSA on those cams? Lift is important but not as much as overlap and duration. That will ultimately determine tunability and idle quality.

 

where do you guys get your data on 305 vortec heads? i have not seen any flow numbers or performance data in any of these posts yet everyone repeats that they suck.

My buddy chrisformula355 must have a magic set then because he was going mid-high 12s with them

if you dont want them ill gladly take them and i have a pretty nice set of 416s

 

Grind: 270
Lift: .495''/.502''
RPM Range: 1600-5400
270-276 adv dur

Grind: 264
Lift: .487''/.495''
RPM Range: 1200-5200
260-264 adv dur

Grind: 82
Lift: .510''/.520''
RPM Range: 2200-5800
282-288 adv dur


please tell me that 264 grind will work. i like that one best

 

you need to find out duration specs at .050 and LSA, those are basically the most important specs along with lift

 

no problem.

Grind: 270
Lift: .495''/.502''
RPM Range: 1600-5400
218-224 @ .050"

Grind: 264
Lift: .487''/.495''
RPM Range: 1200-5200
212-218 @ .050"

Grind: 82
Lift: .510''/.520''
RPM Range: 2200-5800
230-236 @ .050"

the LSA on all three is 110degrees

 

If you're a novice tuner, look elsewhere. Those 110's will hurt to tune for a beginner. Look for decent duration in the area of that 264 grind and at least a 112 Lobe separation.

 

got any links?

 

These are all going into a 305? One thing you have to remember is that those RPM ranges are usually rated for a mildish 350; it's kinda like the ratings for a higher stall converter. It's going to react differently in a smaller or bigger engine. In your 305 the 264 grind may produce a power band of 2000-6000 instead with a very lopey idle compared to the rated 1200-5200 with a smoother idle if installed in a 350. How wild are you planning on going with your motor?

 

i am getting the world torqer's, port and polished, the edelbrock tbi intake manifold, 1.6rockers, i got the open element, headers, 3" y pipe through highflow cat to cutout valve. and either 3.42 or 3.73 gears.

 

You will probably need bigger injectors and possibly a higher CFM TBI unit with that cam. And I doubt that a AFPR will be suffient, you will definitely have to burn a chip with any cam you choose with that setup....

 

if you shave .0050 off a 801 what cc will the head be?
~Rusty