I am wanting to do this the easy way. How much room is there between the tank and the floor? Are there any braces or any or brackets on the underneath side that you have to cut through? I saw some spot welds here and there and I'm guessing that there are things on the underneath side. Since you have have acess to the pump could you please give me some measurements to the center of the pump location. Also how big of a hole would you make. Thank you in advance for your help.
David
PS I think there should be a article on this one!

 

ttt

 

I CAN HELP YOU ON THIS ONE!!!!!!!!!! We just did this to my friends 89 V6 today cause his pump died. I took mad pics as you can see. I tried to make them as small as i can but still allow you to see them.

Theres about as much room as there is to stick your fingers between the tank and the floor. We used a hole saw to start, then electric nubbler and tin snips to cut away to the tank.


Switched out the pumps and assembly. The Haynes manual is bull. They show pics with the lines having rubber connections a few inches away from the pump. So, we had to cut them and use rubber line for the elbows.

Dymond plate and pop rivets to cover the hole,

And the finished product.


Sorry this is a it long, but i thought all of it would help because we had no idea what we were doing, just sort of improvised.
You could rig up a hinge system maybe if you need to service it alot, but the pop rivets are easy to drill out and re install.
I wanted to write a artice and post it on my webpage with the pics also.

 

beautiful pics, why would anybody not want to do it this way?

 

Beats the fu*k out of me. I had back trouble when my pump went out and couldn't crawl around on the floor. Still had to get under there to disconnect and reconnect the lines though.

 

Thanks a million guys for the great pics. I'm going to do the hole hack- o-rama, and I'm going to love it. And when I'm all done I might leave the carpet off awhile just to show it off. Well, maybe not. Thanks again! I can spend the extra time that I'll save chip tuning this weekend.
Dave

 

on the picture above, what are all the lines for. I have 2 on my 69's tank and am hoping to make it tbi, why are there so many, where do the rest go to since there is only a feed and return needed at the tbi? do they go to vapor canister or something?

 

o ya, and how much room really is there, i want to finally mount my amp down

 

Hey DM91RS Why did you cut that far along the fuel lines, what is that covering the side of the hole and how did you cover the hole once you were done?

 

1. fuel supply
2. return
3. evap canister
4. looks like a tank puke vent or something.
Not sure

Not sure what you're asking about how much room there is.

 

I first cut a small square like others suggested but soon found that it was impossible to get this mess out without making more room for it.

 

Doh!!! Next try

 

And...I covered it with .125 thick sheet aluminum screwed down.

Later

Darrell

 

You got to be kidding me right? It will prolly take you just as long to cut the floor up and reattach the metal, than doing it the right way in the first place..

/me wanna see the pics when you get rear ended and the car catches on fire cause you were to freaking lazy todo it the right way.

Kat

 

Do you cut holes in the hood for tunes ups? Wouls you cut a hole in the transmission pan in order to change the filter? How about in the oil pan in order to change the pump?


Lazy

 

That's Just bout the Biggest HACK job i've ever seen.

It's not hard to get the fuel tank out. And you won't get NAPALMED if you get rear ended.

I Vote This thread as the LAZIEST, Most Dangerous thing you can do to an F-body short of just cracking a nitrous bottle on the Back seat and turning the AC on Recirc.


There is NO reason not to do it right.
You dont' have to pull the exhaust all the way out, you don't have to pull the rear all the way out, Just jack it up good and high. pull the Panhard rod, and right shock out, pull the spring out, on the right side, and jam the exhaust where the spring used to be (with the tire off) disconnect the plug, undo the straps, pull the tank down enough to get the lines undone.

Then pull the tank down twist it nearly inverted and give it a bang, and the filler neck comes out.
To get it back in it's easier to have a set of hands up at the nose to get it back over the ridge, and force it back in towards that hole. once it's in the neckhole again it goes in easy.

All that cutting to bypass a 1.5 hour job.

 

I did it once to my old 89 RS...

I'll never do it again. I wouldnt have done it if I could do it over again. Please dont take the easy way out.

 

I did it and am glad I did.............and who else will know you ever did it. I had to change my pump a second time and got the wrong pump and was able to change pumps in 20 minutes.


Brian

 

I wrote a tech article about how to replace the fuel pump and emailed it to the so called "webmaster" but haven't heard a damn thing since. I can email it to whoever wants it, pics included. I would load it on this post but with step by step pics it would be to big. Yeah I know this is the lazy way to do it but if I wasn't lazy I would probably be driving something much better. So all you non-lazy guys go by a Corvette and whine on their board.

 

First off there's a difference between doing things the right way... and being a Half *** hack.

When you Cut holes in the floor boards, and in these cases so far cut the fuel lines, you are a half *** hack.

Second of all the car is now very unsafe, to be driving on the road because of the holesaw/jigsaw/Sawzawed hole in the floor, specifically in a rear end collision. Again.. being a half *** hack.

I can't comment on if it weakens the structure any since it is a unibody car, but i can't see it helping. Again.. it goes back to being a half ***, back yard HACK.

Not all shortcuts are good shortcuts.

 

This is a perfect example of a "good shortcut". Besides, JokerRS did ask how to do it the easy way.

Hack On :lala:

 

Unsafe?!?! Just shut your trap while you are ahead. Almost every car has access to the tank via the trunk. Don't 4th gens have them? So how is it more unsafe. A good piece of sheet metal and some sealant is all you need.

What are you, a crash test engineer. If the car is hit in the rear, how will it be less safe. If you are hit hard enough to compress the frame rails and crack the tank, it makes no difference in the world if that plate is there or if it is stock. We are not driving pintos ya know.

It is not hard to remove the tank!?!? These cars have to be the worst for that job. I would think it is safe to say that it could not be done in less than 2 hours. Compare that to 30-45 minutes and not even have to worry about breaking rusty exhaust components, gettting all the heat sheilds back into place perfect ( I bet Mr Saftey Badge here left all that off the last time he did it ) Try doing it with over 3/4 of a tank sometime. I did it to my 89, and I'll do it again to my 90 the first time I have problems with it.

FYYFF

 

Lazy Lazy Lazy

Let's butcher our Unibody car that requires everything in place to keep the car together and cut the floor out making a nightmare if you ever get rearended

Lazy Lazy Lazy

And PK fixes crap work like that every day so I think he knows what he is talking about.

 

and I stil say if you cut it out you will be fine and not one person will know.



Brian

 

I like telling people that I cut a hole in my car. I need a bumper sticker that says it for me.

 

Call me what you want. but i'm not a half *** hack.
I'm an An ASE Certified, GM Trained Tech... i recognize hack work when i see it.

one of those examples is a fairly clean job where you can get the fuel lines undone in their normal location.. but it's still a hack job with.

If you Cut the pressure lines on top of the tank and cut a hole in the floor i'll lay money on the fact that they'll jar loose before the other lines.. in which case.... YOU ARE DRIVING A PINTO.

If you can use a sawzaw.. i'd think you would have discoverd a siphon by now... no need to drop 3/4 of a tank of gas.

This is a bad, unsafe shortcut, that shouldn't be included in any kind of "TECH" article.

BTW the last one of the thirdgen fuel tanks i've done was a month ago, In a driveway on jackstands, with nothing but rudimentary hand tools, didn't drop the exhaust all the way out, didn't drop the rear all the way out, Ate Dinner, and it was right on two hours....

It's not that hard for *** sakes, unless your a member of the 40lb bench press club and have no way of using a jack.

HAck work is HACK work, if you wanna sit with nothing but some cloth and RTV between you and some hacksawed pressure lines, be my guest.

 

I agree with cutting the of the main fuel line, but the others are all low pressure. When I did mine on my TPI, I would never consider cutting a 45 PSI line although I heard some have sucessfully. There I see your consern. I myself also cut everything with the tank out. My philosophy is that if you have to go through all that work once, make a few safe mods to make it easier for yourself next time. I think it is really unsafe to cut around any gas tank. Your only other alternative is to get an inline pump.

 

Now PONY KILLER how about writing down how to do it the right way cause i need to drop mine because the seal on the top is leaking and gas leaks out when I fill it up. This isn't a flame just that if you are a GM mechanic it would be beneficial to the group to know the proper way.

 

If you Buy A Gm Service Manual... You Too Can have all the directions Hell most of the time it even tells you before hand what tools to get, making it easier.

Trying to give a Detailed set of directioins to someone whom I've no idea of their knowledge or skill.. completely from memory is a recipe for disaster.

That not withstanding, hell I used shortcuts, like not taking the rear out, not pulling the exhaust out, but... I know what i can "get away" with and what i can't. The difference is.. i've altered Nothing.

I can't hold your hand via the internet, but here's a few "tips" i can give you.

As a general rule. you don't have to drop the rear out, and don't have to pull the exhaust all the way out.... ESPECIALLY if your doing it on jackstands.
Rule one.. disconnect the battery

pull the hangers off the exhaust, get the panhard rod out, hell i can't remember the exact order but just make sure you've got all these out.
Panhard rod, right rear tire off, unbolt exhaust from cat, right shock out. let rear hang, and pull the spring out, pull the exhaust back some and wedge it over gainst the drum/rotor.
get to pulling straps for the tank
pull it down disconnect lines and electrics.
spin the tank just bout upside down, give it a pull it "should" come out, may have to coerce the Neck up while inverted, but she should drop out easy after that
the tanks out.
It's not that hard.
hell it's almost eaiser on jack stands.. you can get more leverage.. but it's harder to get other people under the car, so eat your wheaties.


those are the highlights.

Edit... I was Trained by GM but do not work for them, i've worked on jsut bout every make and model their is.. from Pugeots to saabs. hehe and i hate them all

 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahhahahahaha hahahahahahahahhahahhah ahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahhah ahahahahhahahahaha hahhahahahahahhahah ahahhahahahhahahah


I think i just pissed myself


and graeb , nice post that makes about 1 post that makes any sense

 

Ok I'm not a big fan of cutting a big hole in a car, but where did all these trolls come from? I understand your concern, but why not go about it a nicer way? I honestly can't see the significant decrease in structural integrity from a small hole. If you get crumpled in the rear, the lateral force will cause the rise in the floor pan where it goes over the tank to bow up and in that case the steels integrity wouldnt hardly be compromised. I just think the worst part about this idea is changing something on the car that can't be changed back.

 

Trolls? Ha most of us have been around alot longer than you.

 

It's just all of a sudden there's been a wave of criticism on this board. At least I contribute and don't put down other people's ideas.

 

I answer tech questions all of the time and pony killer actually explained how to do it with hacking up your car. Stupid ideas need to be critiqued. A stupid idea is a stupid idea . And this idea springs from people being lazy . The wave of criticism on this board isnt anything new but for some reason NJspeeder hasnt been deleting every single peice of information that doesnt praise TBI up and down. He probobly hasnt been online.

 

Actually I read some of your posts before he edited them and I don't know why he did, because some of them weren't even critical of the ideas within the thread. I didn't think it was right for him to do that.

 

Lazy.........maybe the ones who chose to do it this way can't have their cars down for days at a time. So I would not jump to call anothers way LAZY. I did it that way, I am not lazy I just knew that I would change my fuel pump a few times as I tried other mods. I like my way..........you don't have to but don't call us lazy.


Brian

 

First off... I think the marines have stollen Pablo's brain.


I'm about what you'd consider an "anti-troll", i've been on this website long enough to have my most count restarted 4 times

Now I'm pretty certain that if you look round on all the boards, i never ride on anyone in particular, nor do i Go about attacking people.

But... this is an idea needs criticism, because what it is.. in the automotive industry is considered hack work.

The first things your taught when your working on a car in a professional sense is when your done, no one should know you were ever there.

I'm not a structural engineer, nor am i a crash tester, I've never seen a thirdgen go up in flames yet... and cutting holes overtop of the fuel lines, and cutting through the lines is certainly a good way to see one burn.

Someone Asked me how I did it.. i explained the best i could off the top of my head.. it's NOT difficult, just a bit time consuming, the biggest problem is if the exhaust is rusted by the cat. other than that.. an amature should be able to do it within 4 hours... NOT days.


it all comes down to "either do it right, or don't do it"
If you do it half assed, it's because of laziness, or lack of knowledge, eitehr way you shouldn't be doing it then.


This is a method of doing things that should not be supported, pure and simple.

 

I'm not going to add more bad attitude to this thread, but I do need to respond... I've managed a shop before, and my family owns a GM dealership. Anybody want to guess what i think about most techs after having them work for me?

Well ponykiller, you are one of the rare techs that arent lazy. Good for you, you must be an older tech who has finally figured out that by doing things correctly, you get more done, and less comebacks, that and im sure that most people dont like you hacking up the sheet metal on their car so you wouldnt be used to doing it. But, to bad mouth these guys for saving time and hassles, back off. The top pics, yes looks like a hack job done with vice grips a chissle and hammer. The second pics are clean, he cleaned up the cut edges, etc.. so he DIDNT have to cut the lines. I dont see anything wrong with it.

Would I do it, no, but only because i dont need my car everyday, i have access to lifts and have access to good tools. If i have to grab a vette to take home for the night, so be it . Would i have one of my techs do it? nope, very few techs who have ever worked on my car do it as carefully and cleany as i would myself. If all i had was my driveway and hand tools, i would do it like the guy with the white car did.

anyway..... another bad post, whinning about what others do, or bad mouthing individuals for their opinions, will get deleted. Constructive words against doing a fuel pump this way, super. bring em on.

how about some more pics guys........


Mighty Mouse, Dirk has a lot of stuff to do, this site IS probably a full time job, but he does have another real full time job so give him some time. A few months is usually what it takes.

 

Well I've been busy working OT for several day and haven't had time to go online till tonight. I see this turned into a big peeing contest.

I did the fuel pump swap today. I used a air chisle with a panel cutting tool to cut a hole in the floor. That worked real well and was a pretty safe way to do it. I cut the lines also.I dont like to cut fuel lines but I guess it has about the same chance of leaking there as it does at the end of those same lines where they are coupled with rubber hose. I fastened a aluminum plate over the opening with pop rivots. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again this way.

There is no way that I could do this job the correct way in two hours. Probably more like 10-12 hours for me to do it. And if a GM tec can do it in two, then please explain why some one on this board ( I think it was Shifty Capone) payed a dealer $825 to tow his car in and change the fuel pump?


If anyone wants to call me a hack, go for it. I don't want to hurt you feelings but your approval means nothing to me.
And what about cars that come with a access panel to the fuel tank. Would I be a lazy hack if I drove one of them?

To the guys who were kind enough to answer my question, thanks again. You saved me alot of wasted time.

 

Well... I'll tell ya what. I'll back off and let these lazy folks cut holes in thier floors.

As far as being a Peeing contest that's far from the truth. I'm trying to stress that there's the right way to do things, and the WRONG way to do things. cutting holes in the floor, no matter how clean it is.. is the wrong way to do it.

If you can sleep at night after doing it, that's cool with me. Just dont' encourage anyone else to half *** it like you did. If they ask you how you half assed it, fer crissakes at least have them do it completely so they don't cut fuel lines.

I'm a Flat rate tech. I've been beaten down on many jobs cause i refuse to bullcrap through it, i can live with that.... But when i start endagering other people's lives, that's when i'll hang it up.

Bottom line is..
It's not that hard to do it right. someont who's never ever done it before... i'd advise use GM parts, and do it properly, tops 4 hours, and if your really unlucly you'll neeed to have some exhaust stuff welded.

If your lazy and Hacked it... dont' advises someone to do it that way, and fer crissakes dont' be proud of hacking a car up cause your too lazy to do it right.