AFrikanGoodTime

Wanted to post the plug size for everyone convenience.

In earlier posts, people discussed a modification to the front plug of the proprtioning valve to increase rear brake pressure. What this involves is the removal of the plug, spring, and plunger assembly. Then people were modifying the hole in the existing plug and replacing the stock plug. This modification required taping theads into the hole and inserting a plug, or welding the hole shut.

I just prformed this alteration to my valve and can tell you it is deffinately worth the process with out any side effects to the brake warning light. everything works great and you have substansially more rear brake pressure.

Heres the part I would like to add to make everyone world easy:

The threads on the proportioning valve plug is 5/8"-18. what I did was go to an industial hardware store and the only thing they had that would work was an allen head plug 5/8"-18 x 1/2"long. Then I used teflon tape on the threads and wrapped it around twice and inserted it into the original plugs' location and tighted it until it stopped.(as tight as you would tighten a caliper bleeder valve- do not over tighten).

With this allen plug, you can purchase it ahead of time so it will be a quick alteration without the trouble to modify the original plug.

P.S. Make sure to re-bleed you brakes afterwards. You will have air in the lines.

FIRECHICKEN

iTrader: (3)

Do you have to bleed the whole system or just the rear.

Any help for the front? I can't lock them up either!!!

Any answers

AFrikanGoodTime

just have to bleed the rears. As for the fronts, mine are great to start with--no need for any adjustment. You could have bad front calipers, air in the line, water in the lines, blockage, any # of things.

I just whipped it through Turnbull canyon tonight here in L.A. to check out the effects and I am truely impressed. The rears lock slightly first which I perfer for my style of driving. I can now agressively set the attitude of the car with the brakes. I have Iron calipers front and rear on this car with drilled rotors and carbon-matrix pads and I can tell you there is no need for any upgrade in calipers in this car the way it stands for heavy street and light track use.( I have a lightweight V6 in it, great for cornering).

chevyguy1969

iTrader: (7)

Hey AFGT, thanks for the info on it. I will check around for that. I was wondering if you could post any pics of it. Do you screw the plug in from the inside or outside?

AFrikanGoodTime

Here's a sketch. ( Hillbilly picture )

chevyguy1969

iTrader: (7)

I did the mod this weekend and took some digital pics as I went along. I will post them some time this week. I did not notice any difference at first but now that I have been driving my car some more they feel like they are better. I think I still have some air some where in my lines. I am going to have a friend help me bleed the PV again and the rear lines. I would say for 15mins worth of work a .66 cent plug, it was worth it.

FIRECHICKEN

iTrader: (3)

Do you know if you have to bleed the PV itself or just the rear calipers only?

AFrikanGoodTime

The only way I see in trying to bleed the PV is to have someone else step on the brake pedal slowly as you are replacing the plug. This would involve percision teamwork as to not force the plug out of your hand from the excessive pressure of fluid trying to escape as you try to insert the plug, or inserting the plug while still having an air pocket in the PV.

This is not an appropriate way to do things in my book. I would suggest to do it the right way and bleed the air out of the PV and line through the caliper bleed valves like it is intended to be done when bleeding brakes properly.

chevyguy1969

iTrader: (7)

I am with AFGT on the PV bleeding. If you keep bleeding your rear brakes it will bleed the PV for you. I have been driving my car around some more and this mod is definitly worth doing. Its odd, it seems as each day goes by and drive my car some more the brakes get better. If you guys are having trouble finding a plug please let me know. I bought some extras from the place I got mine from.

AFrikanGoodTime

Chevyguy, its possible that you bled the master cylinder dry when doing the PV mod. If so, the master cylinder has to be bench bleed because of the angle that air can get trapped in it. If this is the case that you accidently bled it dry, it is gradually working the air bubbles out of the master cylinder as you drive. That is my only guess as to why you say they are getting better as the days go by. You should definately try to bleed them again to get the remaining air out. Just remember to always be cautious not to let the master cylinder get low or sucked dry when bleeding brakes.

chevyguy1969

iTrader: (7)

I did my own DIY page for this mod. I have pictures and detailed instructions on it. Check it out at: http://www.cardomain.com/id/88iroczguy and go to page 10.

If anyone sees anything that is not correct please let me know.

FIRECHICKEN

iTrader: (3)

Hey Chevyguy1969,

Whay can't you do this mod with the PBR calipers?

foney_email

okay, I have dug this one up. I have a 9 bolt pbr on my 82 trans am. It has the factory disc master cylinder. Can I do this valve mod? When you install that plug, do you reinstall the spring and that little valve thing too? Or do you just remove them and have only the plug?

My pedal is already pretty stiff for the brakes, it just doesn't do much. Will this stiffen it up more? I don't think that would be a good thing.

http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...205049&page=10

This is the page I have been refering to.

Thanks

REVLIMIT

why not spend $50 and buy a proportioning valve? O_o that way you can completly tune your rear brake pressure.

foney_email

What brand of pro. valve do you suggest? Willwood? That is the only one I have heard of.

REVLIMIT

yea right now I'm running a willwood and it works great. You can really fine tune the pressure. Helps out alot.

IrocZS383

Can you adjust the pressure ratio between the front and rear brakes by turning the threaded plug further in or out? I did the mod and it works great.

Dan94GT

This mod seems interesting to me as well, but as far as I can tell most of the guys who have done it have disk rears. If I understand correctly the rear durm brakes do a little more work for stopping then rear disks do. Stock for stock of course..

Now I need to re-do the rear brakes anyways because the pedal is rock hard and the rear dosnt seem to do much at all (have to stand on the pedal at idle to keep from creeping forward and have already done the fronts).

so would this help on a rear drum car? I guess its easilly reversed and pretty easy/cheap anyways but id like to get some opinions.

also would like to know if it is adjustable like the other guy was asking?

Thanks

icecold

i did it to mine last summer and with the pbr brakes it works maybe too well but for the first time ever the rear brakes are actually doing somthing.right now i'm going to install my new brake pads up front and if the braking dosent even up then i'm going to install a adjustible valve in the rear line.to balance things out.or i may try shimming the spring to increase pressure.
pete

Eightyninef

I don't know where you guys get your information from. but if your rears lock before your fronts, you will be dead in an untimely manner. especially without ABS to prevent rear lockup.

I suggues you try a "panick" stop in a turn and see what happens.

icecold

larrys right but most people dont have any rear brakes at all. my car was so poor that it would not stop at all on ice. it had its brakes inspected by gm 3 different times and 2 different dealers both said nothing wrong.
well the rear brakes need to have enough power to stop the momentum of the driveline. my e-brake had more power than the rear hydralic system.now with this mod under full panic stop the rears lock slightly first but they have racing compuond pads on that i put on before the pv mod.once i have the same compound all the way around i'll reaccess and install a variable valve if necessary

Parrydise7

iTrader: (1)

I think Larry is correct. You want the front to lock up first because those rear tires will tend to act like the rudder of a ship to keep the car pointed in the right direction.

Fastcamaro87

Im running a Wilwood adjustable valve also, definitely a worthwhile mod, you can really fine tune the brakes with it.

Eightyninef

the problem here is people are like a bunch of sheep. One person says great mod to have the rear brakes lockup first, so 100 other people will follow like a bunch of sheep. Next thing, some smuck is dead when he panic stops and the rear comes around.

yeah, so go tear into your combination valve (proper name), and hope for good results. You better know what your doing.

and yes, I know pre 89 cars had problems with rear disks. But before you go act like a bunch of sheep, you better go find one of those brake force machines, like the machines they use in the NJ state inspection. The machine will measure the braking force at each wheel. Then you have a baseline, and can see the before and after results.

icecold

larry it dosent take a rocket scientist to tell a persin that if you try to stop in ice after pulling out of the garage and cannot (without putting the car in neutral) that there is a problem with the rear brakes. now using my car as an example it is like new 28,000 mi. and been to the dealer three times because if this lack of braking.

the car will start the rear tires spinning at 1400 rpm with as much brake pressure as i can applied(i'm 6-2. 280lb)i've tryed everything to get more pressure to the back after the dealer had failed,by installing stainless lines and bleading the system.after no success i then went to racing brake pads in the rear to try to compensate for lack of pressure this did little good.then i saw the prop valve mod and thought why not?
worst case would be i'd have to install a adjustible valve in the rear line.now to the mod IT WORKS as i stated right now it locks up in a full panic stop just before the fronts,but i dont have the same compound pads on front yet.so i will save the adjustible valve till i do.(i tested it 4 times and car was stable and i somehow survived.)
as for a brake force machine dont need one and nobody else will either as they are crap and cannot take weight transfer into account.any dry straight road will do fine as a testing course. and if your so stupid as to not let up on the brakes when they lockup (front or rear)it wont be long before your in an accident anyway.

as for you larry who stated that it was good to lockup the rears first?i dont see that anywhere.and maybe also list what makes you a braking system expert as then your input might be better put to use.
also your car even have four wheel discs?
pete

Eightyninef

yes my car is an 89, has the J65 rear disk, and they work just fine from the factory. I put it on jack stands, and I can lock the wheels at will in 1st gear. My rear pads wear too, so I know they work.

The problem is 88 and eariler. yours is a 90, so why are you having problems????

oh BTW.. I was a GM tech for many years at a chevy dealer.

at the very least you should by a temperature gun and measure rotor temps front and rear.

its funny you think the brake force machines are useless.

icecold

i dont know why my rear brakes dont hold--and niether do 2 gm dealers or the 6 gm tecs that inspected my car.the only thing they said was that the roters could be cut to provide a new surface to grip but that wasent logical.as the e-brake would hold the car fine up to 2300 rpm in first showing to me that there is a pressure issue in the system(the only thing i finally got out of gm was their regional service rep said he would cut me a deal on a new abs bird if i dropped the issue)well i like my third gen so i told him to get screwed. as for the brake force machine they serve a purpose but do not help fine tune lockup ussues that are dependent upon weight transfer.
THIS is a serious issue to me as i could easly lock up my front wheels and the backs keep pushing on wet roads the car has had issues with stopping when lights turn red.i also had to out turn a caprice that made a left turn from the right lane of a two lane highway because the fronts locked and the rears were doing nothing.
as for roter temps i have shot them after a hard brake workout the rears are approx 25%of the temp of the fronts until the mod now they actually work.
so my .02 is dealers and tecs arent always truthful or upfront and most dont like anything out of the norm.as it cuts into their normal scedule of cranking thru jobs and billing by the book.

if anyone has a fix other than the prop valve mod please list it as i would rather keep the system stock but right now this is the only option as i need a system that uses all four wheels to stop
thanks
pete

ANDYZ28

It would be interesting to see what effect the installation of a new GM combination valve would have on a car that has had the modification to the valve.

Thanx,andyZ28

Eightyninef

It's a presure problem. You elimated a clogged brake tube by modding the valve.

so it WAS either a bad combo valve, or a bad master cylinder. But if you "solved" it by modding the valve, then it was a bad combo valve.

There is a relief spring in there that limits rear brake pressure. yes I know some lousy dealerships exist out there. But it seems pretty obvious it was the valve.

BTW most people will complain GM cars have lousy rear brake bias. corvette people change the spring, Impala people change the bolt inside the valve. But corvettes and Impalas have ABS, so if the rears lock, it doesn't matter as much as a 3rd gen.

my rear temps are about 50% of front. with the **same** compound pads all around

icecold

allright i'm game i'll order a new prop valve and give it a try.i've already got the part number .because the first thing i thought gm might have made a mistake and put in a dick/drum valve instead of a disc/disc valve.
to be honist the parts i swapped out of this vakve to make it "work" seemed fine and i find it hard to beleave that there are many other parts in there that effect braking pressures.
as stated in another post i beleave that a stronger spring would most likely solve the problem. and i think others have adjusted it's length with washers to achieve the desired effect.

will order the valve monday but wont install till spring as the car is sleeping the winter away up here in minn.

ps anyone know where to get stiffer springs? and this mod is the exact same as the inpalas mod as i used the instructions from their sight.
pete

ANDYZ28

I just thought it might be interesting to see the results. I do look forward to your test in the spring.

Thanx,andyZ28

1990L98

Finally got mine to work. Many headaches and dollars, hope this will help. First, this is what I wish somebody would have told me a few years ago. CALL BAER and get an adjustable proportioning valve. Here is what I went through. I bought my 90 for autocross and fun. When doing a low-speed brake stomp, I noticed the rears would not lock up. I put the rearend on jack stands in my garage and found that I could not stop the rear wheels from turning with the car idling in drive no matter how hard I pushed on the pedal. I also tried this on an 89, same results. I took my car to a mechanic friend to have the brakes fixed. The next time we spoke, I was told he replaced the rotors, calipers, master cylinder, proportioning valve, and pads and still could not stop the rear wheels in drive. We both started making calls. He found out after many calls to GM parts that the valve limits the pressure to 600 psi to the rear calipers. He installed a gauge and verified this. At this point, it is clear that the rear brakes never worked. I called a company that wrote a book about 3rd gen Camaros and was told "Testing the brakes with the rear wheels off the ground was not an accurate way to check them out and that the factory setup works well." I'm thinking "what an idiot." Next call was to Arizona Speed and Marine who referred me to BAER. I told the guy who answered the phone about my problem and test and he said the Impala SS also has the same problem because GM uses the proportioning valve from rear drum cars and it takes a lot more pressure for the disc brakes to stop the car. Net effect very little stopping power from the rears. I ordered an adjustable valve from him and installed it. The directions say to set it so the rears lock up just after the fronts. For autocross, I have the valve set 1-1/2 to 2 turns from max. For drag racing burnouts, I back the valve all the way out and still have more rear brakes than the factory setup. Anyone want to buy a used master cylinder or proportioning valve?

Eightyninef

I have heard that before with 90's. My 89 J65 rear disk, and they work just fine from the factory. I put it on jack stands, and I can lock the wheels at will in 1st gear.

Maybe it's an automatic thing? although that sounds ludicous.

I recently put 1LE's on the front. but I kept the OE combo valve. I have the correct 1LE valve sitting on my workbench.

1st off I have to wonder what the difference is in the valve between the 1LE and regualar valve. It got to be the pressure relief spring.

secondly this summer I will swap in the 1LE prop valve, and see.
I can't measure line presure, but I will take rotor temps before and after the swap....

icecold

any pics of your setup? my car reacts the same as yours and no matter what larry says i'm sure were not alone. i think gm made a crappy system slaped the rear disc's in as an option and put very little research into the system. personally i'd say if you cant stop your rear wheels from spinning (on pavment) to at least 2500 rpm there is somthing wrong. i'm also going to go with the ajustible setup once i try out a new valve just to make sure.though i'm pretty sure it's a waste of money and time
pete
PS welcome to the site

laiky

I have 2 84's with the craptacular rear disks, one auto and one stick. The auto was bought new in 84 ( my brothers ) and i can tell you the rear diska never worked correctly. Initially we were really impressed with the effortless burnouts the car did. as the years went by the ebrake never worked and working on the car myself as well as working for the mechanic that maintained the car from new i can tell you that the rear brakes have always been a source of trouble. The car never could hold the rears when in gear on the lift. Don't forget that the auto cars have the torque multiplication of the converter to deal with, and in my case the fast idle of a carb car makes it worse. My brothers car was always hard to hold back in drive on the fast idle.

I got my 84 in 90, from the start it always had a better pedal than the auto but i blame that on a difference in the pedals. I always though that my car stopped better but the ebrake never worked at all. I was a mechanic and it became my part time job to adjust the rear brakes on two camaro's.

several years ago we got fed up enough and got a new combo valve for the auto and along with a complete brake rebuild it seemed to help some but not enough. I suspect that in many cases the rear problem is compounded by people who don't really know how to adjust the rear brakes well.

Back to my car, i sold it in 97 and bought it back in 2001, i completely rebuilt it, i got the GM so called recall kit, but the parts weren't any different than the ones i took out. My brakes work well but not as good as i remember. I have been wanting to get an adjustable proportioning valve for years, but never got around to aquiring the flaring tools. I wan't to "T" into the rear part of the valve to keep the warning light active. Of course this probably won't keep the e brake adjusted.

That quick fix everybody is talking about is tempting but i need to get through the winter without hitting any poles. there is a combo valve for a reason and i suspect that the fix just disables the valve. This would be STUPID to do without some really good testing. i might try it in the spring when i have time to find a parking lot and experiment but the adjustable valve makes way more sense.

Larry is right when he says that it is very dangerous to have the rears lock first. No where in the automotive works is this the preferred situation ( except steven j. cannell TV shows ). Any performance book that deals with braking will tell you that the fronts must lock ( for asphalt) first, preferrably just before the rears.

One more thing you might find interesting, the 84 camaro's with 4 wheel disk came from the factory with organic pads front and rear. Organic pads generally are grippier when thay are cold, much more so than mettalics. It might help to use organic pads in t he rear calipers because they rarely get that hot and don't need that heat to bite well.

99Hawk120

In order to maintain the warning light functionality, you can probably do this:

1) remove the springs from BOTH SIDES of the factory proportioning valve.

2) install an adjustable proportioning valve in the rear brake line and adjust to get the rears locking up slightly after the fronts.

If removing the spring from the front causes the brakes to lock too easily, simply put it back in.

AGood2.8

Yeah, like I'm going to listen to a brainsurgeon like yourself- I tell you why.

If the original propotioning valve doesn't work, or lets say it did work for a little while but then goes south, then you tell me why in the heck I should trust just bolting in a new valve again and take my chances of this one failing again.

I did the mod a while back and the brakes are still consistent with the back locking just SLIGHTLY before the fronts- THE WAY I LIKE IT. Why? Let me explain to those of you who don't know the skill of pedaling a car to set chassis attitude.

When the rears come on just barely (Again for those who may have missed it in their haste- JUST BARELY) before the fronts, And you go into a corner on the hot side (A little too fast) and you come down on the binders hard enough to start to lock, the *** end of the car will respond outward in the direction of pointing the car in the direction you would intend to travel. Now at this point, if you lift off the throttle all the way the you will end up in a ditch like our pal Larry. On the other hand, if you can and know how to trailbrake, the car will still go in the direction you intend- even if it spins/ comes around, your still heading that direction and have a better chance.

Now in Larry's sinerio, His back brakes are 50% the temp of his front brakes which tells everybody that his fronts will lock a good bit before his rears will. What will happen to Larry in a panic stop? He will stomp his brakes- the fronts will lock- he will turn his wheels to the left or right (Doesn't matter, he's not going either way) and will continue to slide head first into whatever is directly in front of him.

I chose to set my rears to lock slightly before my fronts- It fits my driving style.
EDIT: A final point I should add- My suspension is fully built and set with very little weight tranfer or unloading of the suspension. A car that is stock will not resond as well to my car's proprtioning valve setting because suspension unload will lock the rears easier (However this sinero will no longer have the front brakes locking slightly before the rears It may make other's car's lock drastically sooner than the fronts)- to each his own you must carefully experiment in a safe enviroment if you intend to push your car to its limits.

laiky

You may need a Brain-sir-gen!!

What you propose is OK for a road racer where there are no real panic stops, and there is total focus and concentration. For the street it's a little stoopud. First of all you don't know what trailbraking is. Second, peddaling is something you do on a bicycle or a topfuel car. Thirdly, if you brake and accellerate simultaneously ( outside of a burnout ) your driving skill is debatable. Your scenario is suited more to rallying in a FWD car than street driving. In Larry's case his car will decellerate quicker than yours because he is maximizing the amount of braking the front will do. The front brakes are good for about 3 times the stopping power of the rear. At the point where his front brakes lock, he is decellerating faster than you are. This is really what you want in a panic stop scenario since the point is to stop fast, as in an emergency, or something you werent expecting. At the decelleration rate, where your back brakes are locking and thus you ability to control the direction of your car is sacrificed Larry's front brakes have not yet locked and he can still steer his car. Should he actually lock his front brakes he can let off slightly and regain steering. In your case letting off the brakes to unlock the rears will cause you to decellerate even slower, making it harder to avoid the obstacle. Even in a road racing situation all else being equal, Larry's car will be able to dive deeper in to acorner out braking you.

AGood2.8

This guys a mental giant

I'll tell you what partner, why don't you explain to me what trailbraking is? I'll give you a chance before I continue to humiliate you with your stupid comment I quoted above?

P.s Like I used to always say- have A Frikin Good Time

AGood2.8

You can respond to my above question later, let me get to your next comment. What you fail to realize is that in a panic situtation, you don't want your brakes to lock(I'm sure you know this part, here's the part you need to think about) In real world sinerios- we all stomp our brakes in a panic and if we don't have ABS they will lock(The reason engineers came up with ABS- so you can still steer).

Now when I panic lock my brakes by stomping on them, it is always hard enough to lock all four wheels for a split second- this is human nature and unavoidable in either larry's case or mine when no ABS comes into play. While this is happening, everyone reacts by trying to steer around to obsticle to the left or right- which ever is best at that split second. When larry lets off the brakes aliitle to try and regain control, his cars *** end is so high off the ground from unloading mostly on the front brakes that his car is still unsteerable and is pushing straight ahead with no left or right response- even if he tried to steer just as he was locking his brakes. My car under lock conditions may lock slightly easier than his but this doesn't matter when you stomp the pedal under a panic stop- we are both going to lock just as fast. When I release to regain control my car has already started to react in a defensive turn to the direction I steered as I lock the brakes because my rears will set the *** end of the car in that direction as I throttle and steer- There's an old expression "when in dought, hit the gas" I'm and aggressive-defense driver and have never been in an accident in my 20yrs of driving and racing.(Rubbing don't count ) I don't put myself in a situation where I have to panic stop completely to avoid hitting a kid running out in the street or such- I just don't drive fast or unattentive down residential streets or blind intersection and have a driving history to prove it.

EDIT: I want to make a final point to remind you that my brakes are very close to 50/50 lock front to rear that if i accidently lock the insides under trailbraking they will lock at the same time. Its only when I go from all gas only to all brake only that the backs will lock slightly before the fronts- we are talking at most 48f/52r its that close. 48/52 is not line pressure(Its percentage of locking front to rear) and please don't confuse this statement with line pressure- my line pressure is much higher most likely around 60f/40r. ( If you don't state things in perfect black and white on these boards- people will misquote you- hence everybody missing my use of SLIGHTLY)

Eightyninef

if you want your rears to lock first, like you say you like them.... why do pickup trucks and some other vechiles have REAR only ABS. (Dodge Durango) Only because the factory engineers do NOT want the rears locking under any conditions. That about says it all.

next question... what does trail braking have to do with this?? NOTHING !!!!!

I'm just picturing you with your rear tires hopping down the road

laiky

Trail-braking:

Quoted from "Bob Bondurant on High Performance Driving"
page 36

"After the major braking has been completed for a corner, trail-braking is, essentially, just riding the brake into the first third of the corner, gradually releasing the pressure and smoothly switching from brake to throttle. By trail-braking you maintain a forward directed weight transfer and downforce on the outside front wheel, increasing its tire patch area which gives better traction and more control"

It that explanation enough??

Lets see, now you can start humiliating me.

The simple fact of the matter is you are wrong. You can setup your car however you want, or however you think is best but you will still be wrong. I don't appreciate your name calling and threats, thats a sign of an insecure, smallminded person. This is a board for DISCUSSION of technical topics.

You are giving bad advice to people that may not know better.

AGood2.8

Some how I missed your responses, sorry on the delay.

I always love the guy that has to go to a book to find out about driving skills- trailbraking in fact is the art of using both the gas and brake pedals simultaniously in a corner as to not unload the chassis and having the car twicth from brake release to throttle. You apply throttle while still braking ( only lightly of course- because I'm sure you will come back with some smart *** comment like the one above- its to be expected from a guy like you that just stomps the brakes then stomps the gas then stomps the brakes. I see guys like you all my life) I will also tell you that I have run toe to toe with Rick Mears kid Clint Mears in a nascar at Irwindale Raceway here in southern Calif., and if I couldn't drive cowboy, I would have put that into the wall in the first turn. Ever driven a full blown Nascar? Keep reading about driving while sitting on your sofa.

As for Mr. Larry Burd, It would take a moron to lock there tires into every corner- My car is set up perfectly- it will turn circles on any other street car (meaning street legal/street tires) in this forum- and I have the money to back that.

AGood2.8

Hey Larry, By the way, lets see I picture if your sharp ride?

I always like to size up my competitors.

You want proof of my driving and chassis set-up abilities?

I'll be glad to post my past autocross slips from when I dominated BSP class here in So. Cal. by a good 4-6 secs on average in my Vette- Heck I use to dominate the SS and ASP guys times most of the time too- even though I was in an inferior class. Any time partner!

THE WHOLE TOPIC OF THIS POST WAS TO GIVE A GUY WITH NO REAR BRAKES AT LEAST SOME REAR BRAKES- TOO MUCH IN OTHERS CASES IS STILL BETTER THAN NOTHING! thankyou.

laiky

I always like the guy who has to make up his own definitions to be right.

"because I'm sure you will come back with some smart *** comment like the one above- its to be expected from a guy like you that just stomps the brakes then stomps the gas then stomps the brakes."

Wow all the way out there in california, but you know how i drive? Do you find being perfect and all knowing a burden? Well i guess if you can run "Toe to Toe" with Rick Mears's kid you must know everything about driving.

"My car is set up perfectly- it will turn circles on any other street car (meaning street legal/street tires) in this forum- and I have the money to back that"

This statemant speaks for itself-Perfectly

_max_

damn for information you to turned this into a muthafuken pissing match now who knows whos right .you 2 need to go change your tampons (did yall get a cat hair in'em and they get infected or what) now how bout the mod pro. valve or take the fuken guts outa the damn thing or what

laiky

I prefer to think of it as a healthy debate.

_max_

help out instead of being such a ****bag! laiky mostly you! umm people come here for help and i aint no fuggen sheep a good 2.8 was giving advice and you came on and well pissed all over the place

laiky

Actually i said he was wrong, and that i agreed with someone else. i pointed out that his info was bad and potentially dangerous. I pointed out that the terminology he was using was wrong, and called him on it. He never rebutted with any evidence or a understandable explanation. i was then attacked and threatened. I don't like being threatened. You can look at all my other posts, if i'm ever nasty or rude its rare and largely unintentional. If he said something like " i dissagree " maybe the tone of this thread would be different, but that was not the case. I still maintain that he is wrong, but he keeps coming back with challenges and remarks that add fuel to this fire.

icecold

i installed a new prop valve in my disc/disc car and there was no difference.between it and the origional.
so i installed my old(modified)valve and then an adjustible prop valve below .since i had to bleed the system i also added a set of earls lines.now i'm very happy with the brakes.way better than stock.
just my 02
pete