Fri. April 2, Test & Tune looks to be the first test and tune on a Friday. friday nights there are pretty darn awesome.

so whats better than a thirdgen meet to hang out, hang out and race

who has interest?

i am always up for trying to hit 13s

and plus we can try to get some great track videos (people with camera's).

:lala:

notihng like bs'ing in the lanes.

 

f*ck capitol, lets go to MIR

 

 

The MAFB holds their annual/semiannual event at MIR (dragathon, VVF…) those are the few times I've ever actually bothered going out there. They're expensive, mismanaged, overcrowded, way out in the middle of nowhere and dangerous (one of the streets that you have to take to get out there has the 2 worst rated intersections in the state, one of which is in the top 5 in the country. At one I was hit while sitting in a parking lot entrance by another driver going right around 100mph that tore the front end of my formula clean off). I have never been up there where some incident didn't happen, usually between the patrons and staff, for example, one time one of the "starters" riding around on one of their little mopeds was pulling wheelies in the lanes and ran it right smack into the side of my brother's car leaving a big dent. Not just grazing it, but straight into the side and then just turned around and went the other way like nothing happened.

Their layout isn't very conducive to socializing either, unless you decide that you're not racing and sit in the pits or stands, where at capitol everyone can get into the staging lanes, and check out each other's cars/talk while waiting for their next run.

**** MIR!

As far as this goes… assuming that I remember 3-1/2 months from now I'll be there whether I've got something to race or not. Since I don’t frequent this part of the boards often it would be nice if the info stays in this thread (I'll just subscribe to it…)

 

Have you been there since they renovated the place? I strongly disagree with you. For one, the staging lanes are layed out alot better so you don't get stuck there b/c it's too crowded to get out ( like capitol on Fri. night), the officials keep everything moving slowly so the lanes move alot faster, and the track is much better. No bumps in the right lane ( like capitol ), youcan actually read the timing boards and they're accurate, better runoff area, and the track prep is better unlike capitol. Plus the food is better and there's less ****.

Only downside is that it's a long ride for me. We ( eastern f-body assoc) have rented the track several times and have had nothing but great experiences with the track and the officials.

There's a reason that it's an IHRA track that hosts events like the presidents cup with nitro funny cars and pro mods and capitol doesn't

 

Hmm, on a friday, I would rather crapitol just because it's alot closer than MIR.

 

MIR is the best track in MD. Followed closely by Cecil.

IMHO. I used to live 10 minutes away from Capitol and still wouldn't go. Now I live 10 minutes away from 75/80 and still haven't up there.

Other than the 2+ hour drive, MIR is the track I go to the most and has never been a problem for me.

 

I wouldn't go to 75/80 if it was free. How far from Capitol would you say MIR is? I have only been there once or twice and can't really remember much save for it's way down in southern MD.

 

MIR is about an hour from Capitol. Looks like this is the final year for 75/80. I knew it was sold about 4-5 years ago but was leased back since. Now it looks like its going to be an adult community soon.

I never really had a problem with 75/80. The pad was always sticky and it was never crowded when I used to go. Just always ran slower there by .2 seconds.

Rob

 

its Capitol because i said so

i dont care where but all i know is Capitol seems to be a middle spot for alot of people. coming from up north as well as south, i dont have any problem with Capitol, and never been to any other track. i am sure other tracks are better, some worse, but for like 15 bucks and the location of it i think more people may come.


all i know is i want to see thirdgens at a track in force :hail:

 

Could it be all the potholes??

Seriously though, I have not been there in about 5 years, it may be a totally different place by now.

 

Wow, have you been to capitol in the last year?

I go to MIR about 1-2x a year every year since '91 or so, so yes. I've been to capitol probably 10-20x a year for about as long and 75&80 about 5-10x year. Funny thing is that I've never run at Ciecil but want to, it's definitely the best looking track.

I don't get what they've improved with their renovation. Probably the biggest thing they could do to improve that track is fire 2/3 of the staff, and then completely redo the turn around and pit area.

Don’t get in the staging lanes if you're going to have to go, if you're not sure stay in the back and you can get out and otherwise wait a half hour and just go out the side exit when your lane goes. If you talk to the starters there they'll actually get you anyplace you need to go.

Capitol repaved a couple of years ago and the track surface is beautiful (when they first repaved it it was scary since there was no rubber on it and they did it in October when noone was going to put any rubber down. To be honest, none of the regulars really understood why they repaved it, it was good before that).

They have NEW timing boards, new computers (well, I guess that they're a year old now)… now they keep records of your car and times… It's really nice since you know that you will have the same car number every time…

Runoff area??? Are you talking about what just about amounts to a gravel pit (I mean the turn around area) with a gard rail across it if you can't stop at MIR so you don't roll into the driveway into the track and hit traffic??? WTF? How is that better then 3 real turn arounds, fully paved divided off by grassy burms and finally a sand pit way, WAY down (it must be like ¾ of a mile down, I've only seen it once and that was because I went looking for it one day).

Track prep? As far as I can tell capitol and 75/80's track prep is as good on T&T nights as it is during real events, where MIR doesn't seem to prep at all for T&T, well, they'll spray down the launch pad, but it's scary further out. To be honest, I’m not sure I really care, as long as there are no marbles on the track. I've run 1.7's on street radials at all of them and better on drag tires so what difference does it make?

Capitol's food has gotten seriously good lately also. Once it gets busy in the summer they setup a separate stand where they've got more ritzy stuff… where else can you get a GOOD crab cake sandwich for $3?

because capitol is in the middle of an "urban" area and can't get away with the noise. It has a better pad, better track surface and better turn around/return. Unfortunatly the staging lanes don't lend themselves well to a totally controlled environtment like a full on event should have (which is also what makes the track great for socializing.

MIR seems to be 2 hours away from everything… it's at least an hour away from the southern end of the beltway… It should be the fastest track in MD because of it's low altitude… but I've never run closer then .2 of my best at Capitol or 75/80.

That's a shame if it happens. It would explain their attitude about being open last year though. 75/80 has that ******* hole in the wall feeling, but once you get past the slightly funky burnout box setup and turn arounds it's really a nice track. It's also the only track that runs weekly outlaw class races (actually in between rounds on T&T nights… it's really cool to stop and watch the insane cars for 5 minutes and go back to racing. It also insures great track prep and lots of rubber on the track no matter how bad the ricers screw things up. The other nice thing is that it's the only local track that I know of that you can ALWAYS go around the water if you want.

 

about the staging lanes, I meant that you can get blocked in by them if you're a spectator trying to leave. If you think that capitols pad hooks, you must not be putting out too much power, b/c from what I've seen, T&T nights are the worst. It's just the leftover VHT and rubber from the previous weekend.

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you about what track is better, I stated my opinions as you did yours. I'm sorry if the folks at MIR did something to **** you off, but I think you should take that up with them.

Cheers,
Tony

 

1.7's on radials, 11's at 120mph... My brother has run a 1.61 60', 11@119 on an 26x8.5"MT with the wheels up on T&T. Brian Bossone used to run regular 1.2-1.3 60' on T&T nights in his 10.5" car… I'm not sure what more you're looking for.

Although I've never not been able to leave when I wanted to, I suppose that if you try from the far side when they close the staging lanes it could take a bit… but if that's an issue just park on the tech side.

As far as MIR goes, it's just a general unprofessionalisim and the fact that something happens every time I've been down there. Considering the regularly mediocre track conditions and crappy pits… I don't see the point of enduring a 2 hour drive to go there. If Capitol, Cecil and 75&80 closed I'd probably consider driving 2-3hours to get the assorted PA tracks or even the 3.5hours to get to Beaver Springs or Englishtown before I bothered with MIR.

As it stands I'm also only about 15 min from capitol, and less then an hour from 75/80 and slightly over an hour from Cecil. All of which I consider much better tracks with cheaper T&T.

Actually, on that note, has anyone ever run at Richmond?

 

ES87iroc- any more pics of your car? That looks pretty sweet (and this is coming from a Pontiac guy that's owned 4 and never really gotten excited about the camaros).

 

I do like 75/80 as the track officials there are much more friendly than capitals'. The track does however have a lot of pot holes still but the launch pad and the 1/4 mile itself is fine and pothole free. From what i've heard, MIR is still the king track in MD. I've been to Cecil once and it looks to be a very nice track to run at even thought it rained out when i went. The Chili dogs at 75/80 kick ***, capital gets a little more crowded on friday nights than any of the tracks i've been to. Also capital is really strict on inspections.

 

capitol hasnt popped my hood yet, i raced at capitol with my formula on three different time, about 15 runs.

they look right number and go, so they can get the line moving and done with.

so whos in? doesnt really have to be the first friday of test and tune but would most likely be excellent temps and conditions.

it would be cool to get like 20 thirdgens racing.

 

I'm down, hopefully we can estimate a exact date when it gets closer.

 

I've had some problems with tech at 75/80, but that was mostly my own fault because of some of the crap my brother and I pulled (11s car, no bar and backpedaling after the 1/8 for a few runs then going flat out, leaving and doing it again next week). For the most part though they're fair, they just want to see that your car is safe and that you're making an effort to look like you're following the rules (at one point we had a discussion with a tech guy that went something like "You need a roll bar in that car. I don't care what you make it out of, but you need a roll bar… make one out of PVC, I don't care, as long as I see a bar in that car. I know the rest of the car is OK, and I realize that it's a street car…"

Capitol is strict the first time around and usually the first couple of weekends a year. But if they've seen you before and have your car/number on file and you give some indication that you know what you're doing (ex, you remember your number and put it on the form without them looking it up) then they just wave you through. The only time that they get more serious is if you've got a real drag car or outwardly running spray (they check for the blow down tube and no bottle heaters). Capitol is pretty strict about blatent rule violations. Usually you can get away with breaking 13.99 once or twice before they will nail you for a helmet (and if you're close all day they'll warn you at the tower as you pick up your slip), and as soon as you see better then 11.99 you're grounded 'till you get a bar.

MIR is a PITA and they do dumb ****. I've had a tech weenie pick up my helmet to look for a tag, drop it, put a big nick in it and then tell me that HE CAN'T PASS A NICKED UP HELMET. WTF??? I also know of a couple of people that have been disqualified for having antifreeze in their radiator (technically you're not allowed to by NHRA/IHRA rules since it's slippery and likely to spill out even if you've got an overflow).

 

o yeah corvettes welcome also (Mic)

 

f*ck MIR lets go to Cecil

BTW i can post again!

 

glad to see it Mic

 

I've been Pikas'd at Capitol in the WS6 and the TTA. They used to say my driveshaft loop in the WS6 wasn't legal even though it was NHRA approved. And threatened to put me on the banned list because I "argued" with them about it.

Then they wanted a blanket on the trans for the TA. Damn thing isn't that fast. Same for the bar that was "supposed" to be in it. I was still running low 12's because I was still on the stock stuff.

Haven't been back in at least 2 years because that's when I started modding it. Same for 75/80. Haven't been back since I was stock. I did run a 12.0 at Cecil and they warned me to slow it down

Never had a problem with MIR for any car I've had up there.

 

Rob… Rob R…? Heh, cool, you hang out here? Who else that I actually know? Do you know any of the other local TTA guys (Clint is the only name that I can come up with, but there are at least 2 others in the local MD area…)?

Pikas'ed… funny…

Where do you usually race? Hopefully I've have something interesting to race this year (ratty but cool). Sounds like I may be making some trips up to Cecil, since I'm sure capitol will kick me out as soon as I start getting close on the tune.

 

damn right. Cecil rules... downhill staging (you dont have to start your car up everytime the staging lanes move), great track prep, and its rumored the track is downhill

ive always run my best E/T and mph there. what more can you ask for?

BTW- whats the limit on the # of Vettes allowed... between Mic, my brother, and me, we could have four C4s!

 

Thats a fair amount of vettes for a third gen meet. Thats cool though, atleast we share similar motors.

 

hell yeah bro! would be a blast lets show them why IRS rules still racing at Atco? i hope to put my headers on in a few weeks and maybe make a trip up there or just wait till the end of feb for Cecil to open back up

j/k fella's vettes are cool but i still love the 3rd gen!

Derfrank your black Z was smoken

 

I've known Clint for about 7-8 years. But I have only seen the TTA and Typhoon from the street as I was driving by his place one day after work.

There are a few TTA's around that run pretty good. Its just seeing them at the track is a rarity but they run pretty good.

I'll hit whatever tracks I can. My racing really fell off last year as I think I only hit the track 3 times. And that includes going to Indy for the F-Body event. If I don't sell the car, I hope to make it out more. I'm testing a new chip that has all kinds of "neat" stuff in it. Sort of a guinnea pig, if you will.

 

That wasn't me, i have a White 91 Z28. I missed you guys at the meet on friday cause i couldn't find you guys.

 

dont mind Mic he got drunk that night j/k

the black and white thirdgens were twolfe's

dont worry Mic, Alex has a beast of a Z also.



so what should we do?

Cecil meet also? on a closer date, and then the Capitol one also?

i am all for Capitol.


umm only 2 vette's allowed!! j/k

 

Heh, I met him by mistake… used to work at UMD and drive by and see his cars every day during lunch and took some drive by pics of his formula when I was going to fix up the '83. Through some freak accident I ran into him online and showed him pictures of his own car… pretty creepy.

He needs to get that TTA rolling again. The typhoon was sold and paid for, but it's still sitting there…

 

Richmond Dragway is like..10 minutes from my front door.
And yeah, I've been there. Nothing like running thru what feels, sounds, and looks like a half-pickup load of gravel midway up the track.

Prep blows..at least it did the time I went. Damn place is a maze, and they still managed to pack the place. 4 hours..3 runs...various catastrophes.

So I said hell with it. Spend my $15 every Friday night at VMP about 30 minutes or so down the road in Dinwiddie. Get anywhere from 4-8 runs a night most of the time. If not more.

Nicer people, better food, track prep at VMP > than MIR.

hell overall-- VMP > MIR

-JT

 

VMP is the new one, right?

Where exactly is it located?

 

I'm down for it, as soon as we get a solid date and location, I'll request off at work. However, my Camaro is falling apart...I mean everything is falling apart, and I'm really looking into a 4th gen. I don't like the style as much, but once I go back to school I need a car that doesn't need a major repair every other month.

So, if I get a 4th gen, am I still welcome? Cause honestly, most serious 4th gen groups aren't half as cool as the people here (I know it's a stereotype, but still), and I'd rather go hang with third gens.

 

You might want to rethink the fourthgen thing, talk to a few of the guys that own them and find out how well they hold up. Just about everyone who owns a 4th gen car that I have talked with/met has had nothing but issues. I was going to replace my 96' tbird daily driver with a 4th gen T/A, but the more I hear the more I want to stick with what I am using. $.02.

 

4th gens aren't any more realiable and they are much more difficult to work on IMO.

 

nah, thats just a myth. there no harder to work on than a 3rdgen. i actually would much rather change plugs in my GFs LT1 Formula than my old GTA. plus the intake and heads flow great right from the factory. there are bolton 4thgens dipping into the 11s with stock intake, heads and the right cam (like the cc305)

 

Plugs in my Z are gravy. Doing plugs in my buddys LS1 wasn't nearly as easy. Also i'm not a big fan of the factory optispark unit on the LT1's.

 

why? cause of the stories that its a pain to replace? sure, its bad the first time around, but the second time its MUCH easier. i can do an opti/water pump in about 3 hours now. wanna know what sucks to R&R? how bout that TPI intake! i can swap injectors on any LT1 in about 20 minutes. try that on a 3rdgen that isnt Minirammed

besides, problems or not, the opti is a more accurate way of delivering spark than a conventional distributor

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MdFormula350
[B]capitol hasnt popped my hood yet, i raced at capitol with my formula on three different time, about 15 runs.

They only lift the hoods on the fast cars Jimmy j/k

I'll prolly be there when the times come though.

 

good one Steve

thats probably true, dont worry i will have my low 13s soon, hopefully

 

Whoops

 

4th gens are sorta an interesting animal (coming from someone that has an 83 TA (well, that one just got parted out), '87 Formula 350 and '97 WS6 TA). Many of the parts used were better (ex, tranny, it's got a fancier interior…), but a large majority are basically the same (ex, 10 bolt). Personally, while I was initially excited about all the creature comforts my 4th gen came with, I'm not sure I still am, the car is heavier and not nearly as nimble as a 3rd gen.

I don't know what those of you that are saying that they'd rather do plugs on a 4th then 3rd gen. in the stock engine bays the only thing really in the way are the air lines on the 3rd gens, and although it's not easy, it can be done in an hour and a half (as compared to about 5-10 minutes for all 8 in my brother's ford). 4th gens, well it depends on how little you are. I'm 6'4" and 300# and have actually got my arm stuck in between the passenger side manifold and the shock tower on my '97 (as in I was wedged in there and couldn't get out till a friend stopped by and after about 10 min of laughing he pried the engine over so I could sorta slide out). It took 3 of us a whole night to do the plugs in that car, we finally found a way on the passenger side that with the starter dropped, with me under the car I could just get my fingertips on the tip of the ratchet and a friend of mine could just touch it from the top so one of us was able to move it in one direction and the other in the other direction. It REALLY sucked. When you put headers on them it's up to the design, but typically you can get a 3rd gen down to a 20-30min job and a 4th gen into the 1-2 hour range. I do have a friend (little guy) that claims that he can do all 8 in a 4th gen in 20 min, but he actually gets on top of the engine and has tiny arms…

 

WOW! alls i did to my GFs 94 Formula was put the front of the car on jacks and i could reach all 8 from underneath the car. i didnt have to remove anything, and it took me about an hour to do the set

sorry for getting off topic with the whole LT1 thing... so without further ado...

Ce - cil, ce - cil, ce - cil!

 

Does the car have aftermarket headers/y-pipe?

I can reach all of the plugs on the driver's side from underneath (If you know what you're feeling for it's actually easier to do the back 2 lying next to the front tire from next to the car, but the big driver's side cat on the '96 and up cars does get in the way somewhat), but there is no way in hell that you're doing the passenger side without removing something, there is less then a ½" gap between the frame, k-member, exhaust and starter, no one has hands that small.

You can do all the plugs on a 3rd gen from the top with the right combination of extensions. Hell, I just pulled the exhaust, intake and heads on my '83 TA using nothing but an impact gun, 5/8" socket (head bolts), 9/16" socket (all the intake and exhaust hardware) an impact extension and swivel in less then an hour and a half. You won't even get the impact gun in that space on a 4th gen and I'd be shocked if anyone could get the heads off in less then 5 hours.

I'm up for trying Cecil later in the year… Hopefully I'll get my formula through emissions soon so I can actually do something cool to it before racing season turns up. Maybe I should start paying attention to this board.

 

nope. the exhaust is stock save for a SLP loudmouth catback
well, i dont know about that. i got all 4 on that side without removing a thing. i cant remember exactly where i snaked my arm into the engine bay from underneath, but i do remember it was a really tight fit. next time im underneath the car, ill double check how i did it

 

Problem is, Mark is a gorilla

I remember doing the 3rd gen from up top. Had to lay across the core support to get 8 but it wasn't that bad.

I got the WS6 from up top also. Using a step ladder to reach 6 and 8. I did get stuck once though, just had to sit there for awhile before I could get out.

The TA is a 10 minute job tops. Easiest F-Body I've done with the exception of Pop's 69 396

 

plugs on LT1 sucks, Opti isn't bad, first one took me a little under 2 hours. LS1 plugs are gravy. Plugs on my tuned port take me 15 mins. LS1 intakes are the easiest, gimme 10 mins and it's off. TPI or LT1 are about the same, 40 mins. a piece.

IMHO, the LS1 is much more reliable motor wise. Most don't run into problems until they really start putting some power down and the rear blows up. The stock clutches suck too. If it's just a driver and you take care of it you'll be ok.

 

I AM NOT AN ANIMAL!

 

im going to have to disagree here. i work at a independant repair shop, and weve gotten a few TSBs on the LS1 equipped cars:

1) they burn oil. alot of it. seems the top piston rings dont seal right. GM says the acceptable amount of lost oil can be up to a quart in 400 miles!

2) the valve springs are weak from the factory. in fact, GM has redesigned them 3 times! first was just a regular single coil, then they added a smaller helper spring in the middle of the coil, and finally they designed an egg shaped spring. we just had a red 99' T/A in the shop with both broken valve springs on the # 7 cylinder. they were the 2nd design

BTW- the blowing up rears are a problem on all fbodies built after 82... apparently they didnt change them much in the last 20+ years