I am putting fuel injection on a zz430 motor. I have found some good prices on the ramjet intake and fuel rails. Also today I came across a ramport made by street and performance. The guys at street and performance said the ramport is better because it has bigger plenums and will hold more air. Also said the ramjet is Ok for the fastburn 385 but does not work as well with the zz430 for the same reason.

Here are some of the prices I have put together for both setups for comparisons

Ramjet

Intake/ splashshield 475
fuel rails 160
injector clips 27
Regulator fitting 12
regulator LT1 or adustable for 135
injectors ford svo or find used
throttle body Ls1
brackets and bolt and pcv kit 47

Ramport. 1700 includes
wirring harness to adapt to tbi
manifold
fuel rails
lt1 regulator
bolts and brackets
I would need to find a lt1 TB and injectors



As you can see the ramjet is a little cheaper. The ramport has the adapter wiring harness to convert the tbi harness. The price for this harness from the website is 500. If they took this off of the kit I could get the ramport for 1200 and would still need to find injectors and a throttle body. The ramjet I could get with injectors and a throttle body for 1200.

Any Ideas? I would like to go with the ramjet because of the cost. Could the Ramport be that much better?????

 

Bigger is not always better.
On non N/A engines big plenums are truely effective. On N/A ones there is a practical limit. IMO, I wouldn't go larger then the plenum volume equalling the engine displacement. Just my rule of thumb.

Are there any online pics of the Ramport?.

 

Hi Bruce,
Thank you for always being so quick to help

yes there are pics online


Go to online catalog,
then go to page 43 titled ramport
I would give the direct link but it is Pdf


http://www.hotrodlane.cc/

 

I'm working on a similar setup b/w a 7730 ecm.
You didn't say what your using for an ECM.

Have you tried ScrogginDickey for the RamJet. I saw a post about a good price on a kit a while back.

It's been a 3 months or so since I looked these up so I might be off a little

A Holley stealth ram is $400 I think.
A complete HSR kit - ecm is $1475.
A conventional Holley single plane intake
is about the same price.
http://www.holley.com/

None of them are quite as pretty as the RamPort though.

For more insight https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=196473
and do a search on the TPI board for Ramjet.

 

I didnt know anyone made a single plane for the vortecs. Any idea where to get rails for these?
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin.../9901-107.html

ScrogginDickey does have a good price. If you want bigger injectors you might be better off putting the kit together yourself

you can get the manifold, bolts brackets and pcv parts, fuel rail, injector clips, adjustable regulator,fittings, for 875 from Arizona speed and marine. You would need to add injectors, TB and sensors to finish the kit


Any idea how the single plane manifold would compare to the ramjet?

 

They're sure not bashful.
2,100 and everythings an option.
Yikes.

 

Single planes are meant to carry a fuel load, so they typically have larger runners. They are also designed to help keep the fuel to stay in suspension.

If I was building a big CID engine then I'd really look at a single plane.

Or if in an application where the engine was really gonna be changing RPM drastically. A car with a 700R4 and that 3.06 is gonna want to be able to change RPM quickly and the single plane runners being (typically) shorter would help.

 

Thanks Grumpy for taking the time to look at the ramport

Do you think the single plane would work better in my application?
Here is what I have zz430 with fastburns and hot cam
89 camaro with t56 and 4.10's in the back.

The car does change rpms very quickly with the 4.10's for example, a few days ago I was datalogging the rpms. On the graph I could see exaclty where I would shift and how long I pulled in each gear. Through the first 4 gears I would only pull for 2 seconds in each gear before It was time to shift.
I might procharger in the next couple of years but I want it to run nice just in case I dont.
How does the throttle response of the single plane intake compare? I noticed the website said the manifold was for the 2000-6000 rpm band. How will it act at 2500 rpms when I cruise down the freeway?

The price is comparable to the ramjet I called summit last night

Intake 400
rails 218
svo injectors 30 lb 220

I dont know how much the tb is. I thought about making a box to bolt on top of the manifod and using a lt1 or ls1 tb.

 

With 4.10s yes a single plane conversion would probably be best.

Depends on the manifold in large part. While they vary some at WOT HP, there's big differences in drivibility from manifold to manifold. I've had good luck with the Weiand 7525. But, it can vary from combo to combo about what you might perfer. Some years ago, I bought swapped borrowed every single and dual plane I could, and ran them on my 355. I've have to dig my notes out, but it was like 10 different manifolds. And the 7525 was by far the best driver of the group.

 

What happens to the off idle response with the single plane? WIll it still have good throttle response and be happy cruising at 1500-2500 rpms?
I tried a single plane on a 327 and it was kind of a dog. Of course this was with a carb, not fuel injection

 

You can strangle an engine down to get good off idle response. Off idle response (again with a single plane), is at the expense of upper end HP.

At 1,500 your at the bottom of the engine just starting to wake up. Tuned well, you should, fine.

Manifolds are all about compromises. And they can be used to *crutch* poor engine design into being passable. Especially when your trying to do it in one-shot.

Given a healthy engine, and 4.1s out back you should be able to climb easily into your RPM Band, and get going. Some speculation there, but, it's the net............

 

Hmm, that makes sense I think I will go with the single plane intake and build a box for a throttle body. Has anyone tried mounting a tb faceing up? I looked through the archives and found some aluminum boxes that were fabricated. Is there any benift to the box? Could an adapter plate be built instead that would bolt the tb facing up right on top of the intake?

 

Ughhhhhhhh,
You might investigate using a monoblade.

A side facing facing TB makes for an intake tract that is more tuneable for lenght and volume.

Don't worry about if it's really a *box*.

In my set up. I have a 3" butterfly.
And wanna guess what diameter the pre TB ducting is?.
Yep, 3"
Hmm, so to some degree the plenum gets larger at higher throttle openings.
Hmmmmm, na, couldn't work.......

See if you can dig up a pic of Lingenfelters Sport Compact Race Car.

 

What do you think about a 4 barrel TB that bolts up like a 4150.
It would allow me to use my stock cables brackets and 3X14 knn filter
Summit has one from bbk for 350, It is a 1000cfm tb with The iac and tps installed.

 

hmm... so how big is the plenum on my hilborn injection manifold with volicity stacks at WOT??

 

I wasn't clear. Holley will sell a bare single plane intake or a complete kit - ecm and harness and small sensors for $400/$1475 from Summit. The price doesn't vary much with 30lb injectors. Can't remember the price diff on 36's which I need.
Can't find my notes or I'd list p/n's.

Going the conversion route is only considerably cheaper if you plumb the manifold yourself. Got access to a Mill?
A twin 58mm TB is cheaper than a 1000cfm 4150 style so the price is actually very close either way. Both come with tps and iac. (Comparing HSR to single plane)


I'm suprised Grumpy didn't bring up reverision and large plenum manifolds. The big plenum leaves lots of room for self egr to collect.

What's the p/n for that 4bl TB? The holley billet one is $650.

 

complete "converted carb looking INTAKE" multipoint FI system from holley for $1475 thru summit? im asuuming it runs the commander950 right?

or are you talking about the stealthram setup?

 

http://www.bbkperformance.com/produc...e-bodies.shtml

Sorry I didnt get a summit part number go to the above link. It is posted at the bottom of the page. It was 357 from summit to be exact. It would be a little cheaper to build a box and use a tb from a lt1 or ls1. Whats nice about the 4 barrel Tb is cables and brackets would not have to be replaced.

Also the fuel rail comes with all of the fittings and a regulator

fuel rail 218
BBK Tb 357
manifold 400

 

Wish I could find the piece of paper w/ prices and p/n's.

After some checking, my listed prices are piecing it togethor w/o injectors. Some already have them, e-bay etc.. The BBK TB tips the balance at 357.69. I already have a vortec intake that I can convert so it saves me lots of money.

A stealth ram is about $400 w/rails at $219. The rest can be got on e-bay.
4bl tb's & vortec intakes aren't real common.

HSR complete, no ecu about $1750. Single plane is about the same price.
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin.../SR/SRPPK.html

Summit p/n for the BBK TB is bbk-1716. I looked at the picture again, it doesn't have an IAC shown.

Since fast burn heads are dual pattern IIRC, you can use a new edelbrock intake EDL-29785 $310 and rails EDL-3630 $80. Fitting aren't to expensive if you diy the lines and a Aeromotive regulator AEI-13101 139$
There is a picture posted of a prototype intake around here.

 

If it's one stack per cylinder, and a IR, then the plenum is infinite.

 

I'll leave it for you to explain.

 

Look under where your self egr is collecting.

 

Hey grumpy, what do you think of the 4 barrel Tb? I know a monoblade can flow more but a 1000 cfm tb should work alright. I just thought It would be nice to use my KNN airlcleaner and stock brackets
Dan

 

When the intake valve first opens, there is still some amount of pressure in the cylinder which is full of exhaust gas. This pressure basically pushes exhaust gas up into the intake. Aka EGR or reversion.
The more overlap a cam has, the more the reversion. Also, the earlier the intake valve opens, the more time for the exh to flow back up there. And, at certain rpms, the exh. pipe tuning can push even more exh back. This can be seen on motors running stack style mechanical FI. The exh can actually push A/F back out the stacks and be seen floating above them.

Now stick a big plenum above the intake port with lots of area for reversion to get away from it's source runner and hang out near another cylinder runner on it's exh stroke.

This usually isn't a problem with most EFI setups since they are cammed to minimize overlap and it's lumpy idle.

Here is a link to a discussion on cam timing and reversion. Yes I quoted some of it. The majority of it I knew in bits and pieces and this tied it togethor.
http://www.chevelles.com/forum/ultim...c;f=4;t=018732

I thought Grumpy brought up the big plenum thing in another post. I may be confusing him with Grumpyvette. Not like he doesn't have a soap box collection, I mean lots of knowledge and experience.

Or he's just tweaking me in general or for quoting others.

 

Moi?.
Tweak?.
Surely you jest. <g>

In you first post I believe you used the word collect, which really wasn't the a word I'd use in explaining self - EGR'ing.

Glad someone's up on reversion. Seems like some folks 'round here are in denile about it.

 

It's not about ultimate flow, it's about intake manifold velocity.
The 4 barrel, is going to add alot of speed to the air, and that makes it more difficult for it to bend around the inside of the manifold. On a wet system, exspecially on carbs, you want higher velocities to help keep the fuel in suspension.

Can you successfully run a 4 brl?, sure.
For a something that I was going to put alot of work and money into, I'd be looking for the best answers possible.

 

Thanks Grumpy, I guess Im confused the best way to go on this. So I want volume not Velocity? Price not being a factor what would be the way to go? Should I build the box instead of the 4 barrel

 

One's not at the exclusion of the other.
I'm giving points to consider. Not saying one is more important then the other.

The box gives you the option of using spacers to fine tune the plenum volume, and be able to tune the over all tract lenght. Both of which to me, are neat options to have.