TomP

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Tom P's Major Tuneup Info: 3rd gen (82-92) F-body series

Here's the Major Tuneup stuff- this covers alot more than a garage would do for you, and it'll wind up to be cheaper (or at least the same price)! First, buy a Haynes 82-92 Firebird (or 82-92 Camaro) manual.. they're about $15 from any auto parts store. I like them alot better than the Chilton's manuals (which aren't what they used to be 25 years ago). And of course, the ultimate manual is the GM Service Manual, available from http://www.helminc.com - I paid about $60 for mine back in 1994.

Replace: Distributor cap/rotor, spark plug wires (use aftermarket), spark plugs, air filter (use K&N replacements), PCV valve, fuel filter, engine oil/filter, auto trans fluid/filter (or manual trans gear lube), and rear axle gear lube (use limited slip additive if required). Check and reset the timing to stock specs (in Haynes manual). Check and reset the TV cable if you have an automagic (in Haynes manual). Do a lube job and get an alignment done- the car will go faster "easier" if the front wheels are straight. Buy a can of "Intake and Throttle Body Cleaner for Fuel Injected Engines" by Gumout (yellow or gray can, with a red cap), and follow the can's instructions to clean out your intake. DO NOT USE CARB/CHOKE CLEANER- this removes the protective coating fuel injected engines have. Put a bottle of injector cleaner or my "red magic" (STP Gas Treatment) into a full tank of good gas.

It's also a good idea to replace your coolant, check your brake fluid level and p/s fluid level, check the belts, and check your brakes while you're at it.

Call Summit Racing at 800-230-3030 for a free catalog, then you can pick and choose a spark plug wire set and get your K&N air filter(s). (You can also find this stuff through their website, at http://www.summitracing.com , but it's not as thorough as the catalog.) When you leaf thru the catalog, you WON'T SEE any parts listed for a 2.8l v6 - you need to call them and ask them for part #'s/availablility. (Same goes with exhaust, etc.) If you're like me, and can't want to wait for the catalog in the mail, call them and order one anyway! Then, go to their website, at http://www.summitracing.com , look up their ignition wires, decide on a brand, and give them a call for a part # and price.

But definately do a tuneup first... you'll see the best improvment from the "fun" parts when your car is in good running condition.

-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

BitchinRS

Hey Tom you should submit this as a tech article!!

87_Camaro

thats great tomP, well ? just went to autozone and bought some STP throttle body and intake cleaner becuase knowone had the gumout stuff, well how the heck do I use it? I know this souds really stupid but all it says is to take off the intake, wich I take it it's the dual snorkle intake tube, then spray the stuff into the throttle body, now this is where it gets me becaus eit say wipe it off afterward, how am i supposed ot do that? am i reading it right?

oh but after this im gonna change my ATF

Project: 85 2.8 bird

wipe down the inside of the throttle body & butterfly plate. I have all my intakes off, & man, it's so dam dirty in there. stupid egr letting all that crap in

------------------
$150.00 2.8 Auto.
Blown Head Gasket.
turbo has arrived, but put on hold (4 now)
working on getting a better engine

TechSmurf

Tom, my man, you are just the most conveniant person I know.. just bought a new one and you just saved me doing a search for your major tuneup article =)

man.. next part was hard to write.. feelin kinda bad saying it..

And to everyone else.. hey guys.. uhh.. I'll miss you!! I'll still be around when I'm busy rebuilding parts of the v6 I don't know about.. and I'll still stop in now and then anyway.. and I really *will* try not to say "just get a v8" when people ask how to get power.. (though I truly understand their reasoning now.. yeesh) ... thanks for all your support in my early days as a shade tree/midnight mechanic. It was a blast =) Take care of your mad selves =)

James

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'88 Camaro, forest green
LO3 305 TBI/700r4
Performance mods: MSD Coil
Audio mods: swapping system from v6 and building new fiberglass box

'86 Camaro SC, black /w silver racing stripes
2.8l MPFI/700r4 /w special 2nd gear delete option
Misc Mods: Cut air box, '83 Firebird spoiler.
Performance Parts: Accel 8mm wires, SplitFire plugs, Gabriel hijackers.
Audio Mods: Pioneer DEH-P3000, two 12" Optimus Pro Audio subs in hand-made enclosure each powered by a 260 watt Optimus amp. Working on shaving the box for weight.
My Homepage, with pics.

TomP

I've actually started work on the 'ol webpage, count on it being there!

TS, definately keep coming in here!


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

Trent257

its also a good idea to check your battery water level and power steering level, when i recently checked all my fluid level, those were both empty

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Trent
---Car---
89 Firebird/305 L03 TBI A4/t-tops
Open Element Edelbrock Aircleaner w/ K&N air filter/Summit Chrome Valve Covers
Edelbrock TES headers 3" out/flowmaster American thunder 3" exaust/Catco cat
---Stero---
Pioneer DEH-P730 Premium
Infinity 2way 4652 4x6's/Pioneer 4way ts-a6985 6x9's
profile cl640 110x4

ChillPhatCat

Hey, I got an 8 and I still post in here... there are some issues discussed in here that you just don't see on the other boards. Just 'cause we converted you (j/k) doesn't mean you can't still hang out here.

Time for the hazings!

WaynesRS

Just b/c we have two less cylinders doesn't mean we can't make em fast ..cough 14.90 on motor ...cough ...14.90 on motor
Think about it guys , the only things that separate us is they can run that time almost stock , we can't but we can modd the tell our hearts content .Our cars may not sound as great as a 8 ...cough RS ...cough ...Real Sleeper ...cough ...RS

Think about it , As you pull up to the staging lane the guy laughs at you in the IROC Z and thinks " Im racing a Real Slow Camaro or a Fireturd, he's going and your going and your thinking Real Sleeper or maybe your like Kyle F and have the turbo sitting under the hood make em .Christmas tree lights up , hey and your keeping up Real Sleeper ...Moral of the story : Just cus we're minus 2 cyl we can still go fast and our cars look great . Im not putting down on Irocs , Z28's cus I do like them , I want an IROC one day , but Im attacted to my V6 and will not sell it when I get my Iroc .

TomP

This is the reason (okay, well one of) that I push the Major Tuneup so much! A perfect running V6 f-body will beat a clapped-out V8 car (f-body or mustang or whatever) any day!

I'm not saying the V6 is the best engine out there (and I don't want this post to turn into an engine bashing contest!). I'm not saying that thru a major tuneup, we can take on the worked up v8's.

I'm just saying that our V6's (in top running condition) can beat the trash talking poser down the street with the Flowmaster-equipped, blue-smoke-pouring, lowered-to-the-ground, Mustang.

No way we'll beat a gearhead's V8 car- but those are usually the guys that don't start trouble, and think our little projects aren't that bad. (Usually!) I really don't care if I beat a worked-up V8; I'm amazed by that kind of car. But I do care about beating the wanna-be who always knows more than you or goes faster than you.

[edit] So enough about V6 vs V8.. any other tuneup questions?

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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)


[This message has been edited by TomP (edited October 31, 2001).]

quingofpenguins

hey my name is rich vail and i don't know if you saw my post before my comp was being pretty gay and posting over and over again but anyway to make a long story short just bought my first f-body (87 sport coupe with t-tops and iroc hood) and i understand what i need to change thanks to your post earlier but i don't really know how to . . . will the manual you suggested teach me how to do all of that and if not could you point me in the right direction on where to learn all that?? thanks for all the help.

BitchinRS

TomP,

You should submit this as a tech article so that it doesn't disapear on you. It's one of those things that are very good for the new commer to the car world.

Reed35

Hey, i have an 82 berlinetta with the v6. And i'm going to start the rebuild on the engine, i bought it with 4 blown cylinders. Just wanted to say thanks to tom for posting his tune up guide. It will help me alot..

TomP

Reed, no problem! But since you have an '82, you've got a carb, so theres a few things different:

- instead of "intake and throttle body cleaner", you can use a can of carb cleaner. Be careful of backfires with the air cleaner lid off! You don't want to lose your eyebrows or set fire to the underhood insulation

- check all those vacuum lines for cracks; there's a TON of vac lines on your '82 E2MC (E2MC = electronic-controlled 2-barrel mechanical choke).

- when you do the timing, you may have 3 marks of equal size on your harmonic balancer. You'll have to find top-dead-center of the #1 cylinder (frontmost passenger side) piston to find out which mark is for #1. (try an "advanced search" for "find cylinder" and make sure to choose the "V6 forum" from the list of forums here.

I never saw quingofpenguins message (actually this whole post is from 2002!) but yes, the 82-92 Haynes manual shows how to do all that stuff. But the best manual is written up by GM and published by http://www.helminc.com - worth every penny!! Especially if you're rebuilding the motor!

Xophertony

amen to that tom. the factory service manual goes WAAY in detail on a great many things the haynes/chilton manuals don't touch. however the factory manual assumes that every mechanic knows how to do the simple stuff, and does not talk about it. you realy need both.

TomP

Correct! For example, the GM manual doesn't tell you how to remove the catalytic convertor or muffler or spark plugs or fuel filter. But the Haynes manual has a couple pictures and paragraphs on it.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Ok, I'm going to jump up on my soap box again to keep the idiots from following advice they don't understand and/or can't comprehend.

If you don't know what the hell you're doing, then don't waste your time doing a complete tune up. Not only will you probably cause more problems than you already have, but you'll be spending money to replace parts that are probably fine. I say this because most people that own a V6 fbody probably doesn't realize what they're getting into. If they wanted high performance and they bought a V6 thinking that was it, they're pretty ignorant to begin with.

These cars aren't your granddads 1956 Oldsmobile. The parts on all thirdgens are engineered better than older cars, and don't need to be held to the same maintenance routine. The notion that cars need to be tuned up everytime you turn around, were formed in the days when the technology didn't allow for parts to have any longevity. It's perpetuated now by the automotive aftermarket to keep your money flowing into a dying market. The truth is that short of mechanical failure most modern cars don't need to be religiously maintained or periodically tuned. Typically, anytime you are dealing with a car newer then about 1979 it's going to work a very long time as long as the owner or a mechanic doesn't screw with it.

Everyone loves to think that by replacing filters, plug wires, ignition pieces, etc that their car will be faster or have more pep or whatever, but the reality remains that if its not broke, DON'T TRY TO FIX IT! If a plug isn't fouled, and the gap is per the spec, you won't gain anything by upgrading to the latest +4 lightning bolt uranium core platinum tipped plugs. 11mm plug wires won't perform any better then 7mm stockers as long as the stock wires aren't burned, shorted, or have an excess resistence. A new cap with brass terminals isn't going to be any better then the oem aluminum terminal cap as long as both have clean terminals. If the PCV valve is clean, and rattles freely, its fine, there aren't any wear parts in a PCV valve. If the fuel filter isn't plugged, again, no reason to change it. K&N filters don't filter as well as paper filters until they've built up a layer of dirt, at which point they flow about the same. Transmission fluid and filter only need to be changed every 30,000 miles under extreme use, and most transmission experts will tell you to leave them alone if the car has the original transmission and high mileage without regular changes in its past. Differential fluid can be changed, but truthfully unless its a posi there is no need as many cars with the same rear end NEVER GET CHANGED IN THIER LIFETIME!!! Do you see Jiffy Lube checking rear end fluid? Throttle body cleaners in a can... Carb cleaner is the same thing. I've yet to see any thirdgen TB with a coating of any kind, they're bare aluminum. $.89/can Supertech carb cleaner from walmart will do the same job as $1.98 "fuel injection safe" cleaner. Concentrated fuel injector cleaners are also to blame for most fuel injector failures, and are SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED by GM in the Helms manual. Not to mention that they don't do anything unless used regularly and most if not all blends of gasoline already have detergents in them that are more powerful. Use 10% ethanol and you're already putting more detergents in your tank than that little bottle of chemicals.

This 'tune up' is preached on this board to no end, and while its probably not a bad idea in general for someone with some skill that can already do most of this stuff, its really just a bunch of masturbation for the placebo crowd or the folks who can't afford a car with any performance.

If you really want to make a V6 fast, or respectable, quit pretending like a tune up is going to make you run 14's. Quit with the glasspacks, spoilers, lighting, hoodscoops, turbo-talk, etc. Stick to reality and known power adders that are actually feasible.

Why don't you guys who have the books ever take the time to read them? They all tell you how to DIAGNOSE the problems, and test the existing parts, instead of throwing parts at them, but that's all you folks can do because you don't know how to tell if a part is good or bad. So you spend bucket loads of money replacing everything and tell everyone else to do the same thing so you can sleep at night.

So that's it, be pissed if you want to, or better yet read what a 12 year veteran of these cars has to say and accept the possibility that I might have an idea of what I'm talking about.

Xophertony

you make a good point drew. i don't realy put much stock in "majic spray" myself. if it's dirty and needs cleaning i will remove it and clean it.

however, i feel with certain things that replacing them is more simple then looking at them and seeing if they are broken. spark plugs for example. delcos run $1.00 or less for one. why bother reaching around my headers to pull all 8 and then put them back in when they look fine. i'd rather just put new ones in while i have them out.

and while many parts of today last epically longer then the rotors and plugs of yor, 130K is a bit much on the stock cap/rotor/wires/plugs. when i got my V6 it had 110 on the clock and a rebuilt engine. i am almost certain the stock plug wires were re-used. i touched them and they crumbled to pieces.

also this article is more intended for the beginer that does not yet know much. before you send them off in to the deep end with diagnosing a rough idle let them get there feet wet by changing out there ignition system. then if that does not solve the problem have them diagnose it for real. now theat they have had some wrench time they will be more confident and not be scared of the engine.

i was that beginer once, and i never screwed up anything by doing a tuneup.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I've seen a bunch of cheap junk cars come through that ran fine once the plug wires were switched back to the correct firing order, or the cap was pulled only to discover that a well meaning but ignorant previous owner didn't get the clamps tightened correctly and the rotor hit the contacts on the car destroying both... Or how about all the catalytic converters that get removed when there's nothing wrong with them only to make a car noisy and introduce exhaust leaks.

The other thing to keep in mind is this... even though the car is new to you, and you can't tell that work has been done, don't assume the parts are original. Mechanics and shops love it when people bring cars in for a 'tune up', they replace all the typical parts and write up a huge inflated bill when the existing parts were fine.

I'm not posting just to get into a flame war, but I hate to see people just eating up the tune up suggestions without evaluating their individual needs.

TomP

12 year old veteran? Wild, I've worked on these cars for 12 years too- and I know what I'm talking about too!

Ya know, one of your big points is "don't spend all this money"- doing everything with STOCK parts YOURSELF is about $100. I would never send anyone to a garage to do all this- that's the point of "do it yourself and buy the 82-92 Haynes manual to help you".

Plus, I'm not sure how a person is going to know that the fuel filter on the car they just bought is "clean". Yes they can cut it open- but then they need a new filter. A PCV valve is $1.50- not a big dent in the wallet! Will they know if the rear axle was sitting in a puddle of water in someone's flooded backyard and its gear oil was contaminated with water thru the axle vent? The only way to tell is to drop the rear cover to look at the fluid- and then, oops, might as well put new fluid in.

But your opinion is your own, and you're entitled to it. If you don't check your distributor caps or change your spark plugs periodically, I promise you I won't lose any sleep over it!

Please keep in mind, however, that I've NEVER said that the car will turn into a super power house and "run 14's". I'm not sure where you read that. I also don't tell people to put on fancy spark plugs or run 11mm ignition wires. I give a major tuneup list of the easily changable "wear" parts. If they don't want to do it, they don't have to. However, it's much easier to give the link to the major tuneup message instead of saying "did you check your wires, did you check your plugs, did you check your fuel filter, etc".

I knew a guy that used to get his '91 formula "tuned up" by a garage all the time; I convinced him to let me do it. His timing was off spec AND his distributor cap was full of carbon tracking. However, his fuel filter, air filter, and spark plugs were all "shiny new". Don't assume that garages replace everything.

Hey, here's an idea: You could do a message on how to CHECK all the wear items! That way, whenever someone quotes my major tuneup message, you can put up the "check the wear items to evaluate your individual needs" message. The both would be quite a combination to help everyone on all the forums here.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

TomP: I agree with just about everything you are saying, and I agree with the reasoning behind, Great fuel filter anaolgy.

There's no harm in replacing known parts that wear, or fail after a while. The only thing to be gained is increased economy and performance, maybe even a few extra years of life for the car and parts.

I really need to get at this on my DD, I've been putting it off far too long now.

Anyway, there's one thing I do question:

What "protective coating"? This is new to me and I've been around cars going on close to 30 years now, been working on them since I could hold a wrench, so about 27 years.

Xophertony

good point drew. if you don't know what your doing get help. there are always people around willing to teach. join a local car club and tell them you need help evaluating/replacing wear parts.

i also think a "how to tell if you need too" article is a good idea and don't mind helping out.so here it is

XopherTony's HOW TO TELL IF YOUR COMMON WEAR PARTS ACTUALY NEED REPLACING:

PLUG WIRES: it is easy enough to look at spark plug wires and tell if they are shot. all you have to do is unplug them, if they are still in one piece and no cracks or melted spots exist chances are they are fine. however if you really want to go pro you can get an ohm meter and check there resistance level. should not be much. i happen to have a brand new section of scrap left over from a "cut to fit" kit, I'll measure it here... .623 ohms of resistance. if anyone happens to know how much resistance is too much post it below and i will edit this post to include it.

CAP / ROTOR: to do this on V6 or V8 engines is pretty much the same, there are two screws on the cap, unscrew them and flip over. look at the metal contacts and see if they are clean. if they have a bunch of crusty stuff on them this is called "carbon scoring" and you may want to replace the cap. or if you are looking to save some cash just wire brush them off. however if they appear worn (as in some spots have less metal) i would get a new cap. the rotor is pretty much the same deal. if there are burned marks around the contacts on your cap this is called "trailing" and could be an indication of bad timing.

also, if your cap has any cracks or feels really brittle replace it. even the smallest crack could cause the spark inside to cut out the middle man and ground out on you upper intake or manifold, causing a miss or even leave you stranded on the side of the road.

SPARK PLUGS: remove them and examine. use the guide on the inside rear cover of the HYNES or CHILTONS manual to guage necessity of replacement. also, spark plugs are fragile. if dropped it is possible the internal contacts could break. so if you drop one it must be replaced. "drop it once, drop it twice" as the saying goes. delco replacements are less then a buck apiece. also check the gap with a spark plug gap gage. thesare less then a buck at any auto parts store. the manual should have the proper gap for your application. the auto store can also look it up. even new plugs are sometimes off.

IGNITION COIL: the process and location differs by application. once you have removed the cap there is a method to testing it using a volt/ohm meter. this can be found in both the Factory service manual from Helm inc or the hynes chiltons manual. you will need a DVOM or VOM

TPI/MPFI/EFI (fuel injection) and 2.8L carburator:
does it have screws holding it to the bracket or rivets? if it is riveted it is original, REPLACE IT. other then that i don't know how to check these, they are about $30 for an OEM style replacement. when i bought my GTA i just replaced it.

V8 CARB:
with the V8 guys it is part of the distributor cap. it can be seperated

AIR FILTER: this is when you need someone with car knowledge to use there judgment. even paper filters are $20+. a washable K&N replacement can run close to $40. and some camaros need two (double inlet over radiator intake for fuel injection)

basically this is the thing that all air going to your engine must pass through to get there. dirt blocks the air. at the very least knock it on the ground a few times to shake off loose dirt. if it still looks dirty it probably could use a replacement. but again, have a knowledgeable car person look at it. or just spend the $10-$20 to replace it.

PCV VALVE: its so cheap, just replace it.

FUEL FILTER: i don't know how to check a fuel filter.

on carbed cars they are near the carburetor and are usually clear. perhaps you can look at them and know if they are dirty.

on fuel injected cars they are located near the rear of the car (follow the fuel lines from the tank) and are solid metal.

BELTS:
if you look at the belts (both sides) and see any cracking in the rubber surface, or fraying of any kind they need replacement. buy two, it is always a good idea to keep a spare in the car. (that reminds me...) the manual will tell you how to change them.

for "v belt" guys: of course make sure they are tight. a good tight belt should be able to move about an inch or so if you push on it. too loose and it will squeal (or fly off), to tight and you will wear the bearings on your accessory's too quickly. DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN. it is better too loose then too tight.

for serpentine guys:
only way to change how tight it is would be to replace the spring loaded tensioner. unless you have a good reason to do that don't.

FLUIDS/OIL/GREASEas far as fluids go.. very few shops would flush your coolant as part of a tuneup, therefore i feel it is a good idea. i think the factory recommends this yearly or something. i do it with my spring tuneup. same with rear end fluid. just did mine today in fact.

oil change.. regardless if prior owner "just did it last week" i would do it as soon as you get the car home. when you change your oil (every 3K) it is a good idea to check all the stuff listed above as well. check all fluid levels, examine the belt(s), etc.. also do a full chassis lube. there are a bunch of grease fittings on the bottom of the car. one on each ball joint (6) along with some others i can't remember right now. the manual will have a picture. pump until clean grease comes out. an oil change is also a good time to check all your fluid levels, make sure they are topped off with the proper fluids.

if you take your car to have it's oil changed they should do a chassis lube. during the winter i usually take my car to the local jiffy lube. i would recommend watching any oil change places "trained technicians" like a hawk. make sure they do everything. i frequently mark my oil filter with a key scratch before taking it in. then later i make sure the filter has been changed. sometimes they "forget" that part at less reputable shops.

BRAKES: first thing to do is remove those tires. take a look at the tread and ensure it is wearing evenly. there is a chart in your manual about tire wear

lines: check all rubber lines for bulges or cracks. cracked lines are bad. i recommend replacement with braided steel lines, but stock style rubber will work ok. also inspect all break fittings for leaks.

DISC BRAKES:
pads:look at both pads and see how thin they are. less then an 1/8th of an inch and you are in the "danger zone" any lower and the rivets that hold the pad to the mounting portion will start to wear ruts in your rotors. most pads will start to squeak when they get low. but the cheaper ones don't. checking is a good idea.

rotors: the manual will have the minimum width of the rotor. get a pair of calipers and make sure some fool has not lathed them down too much.
if there are any grooves worn in your rotors you will need to have them turned. a little tiny bit might be ok. but if it gets too bad it can cause your brakes to grab all of the sudden and lock one tire, even under light braking. this is a big danger especially at freeway speeds. any more then you can feel with your finger nail is too much. also check for cracking or warping.

Pistons: are they leaking fluid? if not they are probably fine.

DRUM BRAKES:
drum: pull the drum off. check its minimum thickness. if there are any grooves worn in it you will need to have them turned. same deal as the rotors, even slight grooves can cause brakes to grab also check for cracking or warping.

shoes: 1/8th of an inch is the danger zone.

hardware: make sure none of the springs or anything are rusty. new hardware kits are like $20. make sure the adjuster screw at the bottom can move freely.

Pistons: are they leaking? if not they are probably fine.


i guess that is it. if anyone has anything they feel i should add to this post let me know and i will. or if you know how to check things i did not mention.

mastertechin

if your plug wire resistance was only .643 ohms, you have a serious problem. the rule of thumb for plug wires is 10,000 ohms per foot. individual specs will vary from car to car, but at .643 ohms odds are you got your meter on the wrong setting.

zs&tas

10'000 ohms ? what ? that would be a seriously busted lead. u need the least resistance possible ht leads should be next too nothing so the high voltage can cruise on through nice and strong and create the spark. if you have a lead at 10'000 ohms im guessing youve got serious missfire problems !!

devin142

thanks i just rebuilt the v6 engine in my 91 camaro after it spun a rod and a main bearing. Im 16 and new to the site and very new to building cars. reading this tune helped me a lot. i never thought to change the rotor and the cap and when i took it apart i got a new modeler and a coil pick up to. The car still has some problems but im sure in a few weeks of reading threw the site i can figure every thing else out so my car stops stalling. if any one knows about the cooling section of this thing please help.

charlie 1

I want to change the electronic distributor over to a vacuum point distributor with coil, can you tell me what year engine I can find these distributor in. i have a 3.1 v-6-60 engine

Gumby

Been told to goto autozone and ask for a canada one for the S10 2.8, they used them much longer in it up there. Like $100 new. only on the US 2.8 s10-15 for a few short years. up till 85 I think. 86 was CC carb.

2.8 part is the same for 3.1 3.4............

dealbatony

Book Marked And ready to go i will follow everystep this weekend!
thanx very much Tom P

charlie 1

Where can I find a GM parts catalog for 2.8/3.1 replacement engine parts. None of the dealers around my area cares anything