Pocket

iTrader: (24)

That Y-pipe is atrocious. For as much as it costs you'd think it halfway fit vs the HUGE dents you had to make. Barring the "We made it for T56" crap, you had to dent pretty heavy at the crossmember mount area which would be required for T56 swaps too

Your dents are very accurate and controlled, good job. Just a FYI, you can remove all the heat shields from the pass side floorboard. They were for the stock cat which is long gone and no exhaust will ever go there again. You'd be surprised how much they weigh and your knuckles will like the extra room without sharp corners

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for the compliment & the comments, Pocket!
I do believe the y-pipe is auto specific - meaning a T56 would be different (they wouldn't make 2 different headers). The Y-frame into the trans tunnel makes things tight with an auto & 3" tube. Since my car is very low (2" drop spindles), there's two choices; let it hang lower keeping the round tube, or dent and keep it higher. I decided on the clearance. I'm not faulting Hawk's or SSW for this, AND it is no where near the probs I had with SLP headers & catback in the mid-90's. As long as I can clear the driveshaft and straight BMR crossmember, I'll be content with this.
I think I'll take your suggestion on the heat shield on that pass side if it's considerable weight - the POR15 will keep it protected.

hawksthirdgen

Hi,
The reason for the small dents is so you can keep the Y pipe UP and not down so as you do not have ground clearance issues, this is a AUTO specific y pipe not the T56 version, there is ALOT going on in a little bit of room! you have to finesse everything for it all to be happy! Here are two different ones we installed in the shop and shows how nice they fit once finished
The Formula your doing Brian is coming along AWESOME I cant wait till you get to drive it

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

The fact that the Y-pipe is designed for that particular trans makes it worse

He had to dent the crap out of it to clear the pan it was designed to clear. It had to be dented to clear the crossmember it was built to go under. Where does it end?

rock861261

that exhaust is ugly I would never pay for that... not to mention the radiant heat on the transpan

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

There have been some dropped ***** by vendors, including Hawks. I'm not too concerned on this y-pipe issue, though. None of the dropped ***** are worthy of a non-relationship - so far. But yeah, they are frustrating and they lead to my own mistakes once I am frustrated at a vendor. Especially as I am trying to race the snow up here in WI.
Today, while frustrated trying to fit the y-pipe, I took it all down and put up the driveshaft.
While frustrated at others, I made the mistake of not measuring the tailstock on the 4L65e. I had made sure to find a pull-out for the same '06 GTO as the motor. I now see that the tailstock is longer. In this pic, the driveshaft yoke is fully seated in the tailstock and cannot get it into the bearing caps! I should have measured; I should have checked it.
Now I'll have to find someone who can shorten the alum shaft and re-balance (which I just paid for with the new joints!).
I'll measure tomorrow and call someone - more delay. I hope I can find someone local. Will a new driveshaft be as expensive as shortening? Might save time and could recoup some of that if I resell this one vs shortening and waiting. Any ideas?
I'm still waiting for other issues to be resolved, so maybe this detour does not cause great delay. I so want this exhaust/torque install finished and down on the ground.
I just can't believe the issues/hurdles at this point in the project!!!

rock861261

It actually looks like its the right driveshaft...

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

I put the bearing caps back up in disgust. There's now way to get those bearings inside the caps. And there should be some play on the shaft yoke - not fully seated.
The tailstock is longer than my old 700R4

rock861261

it may be the picture but it appears your axle is fully compressed raise the body and slide the driveshaft in... it looks like you have at least 1/2 of play.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

That might work. I have the jacks under the LCA box. I just might be able to, but not a lot of play once it's in. Thanks, I'll think about this.

rock861261

yes your at max compression so as long as there is a little play now that its up you will be good you need the play when your rear is going down

hawksthirdgen

Hi,
You are correct some we have had to dent and some not , every car fits a little diffirent , when you are working with such small tolerances, every car is a tad different, if we make everything clear by two inches then it hangs two inches lower then you complain about ground clearance. Where does it end??

hawksthirdgen

Hi,
Do you have a pic of a "pretty one" I can see ?? maybe you can help us design a new one

hawksthirdgen

Hi,
Do you have a pic of a "pretty one" I can see ?? maybe you can help us design a new one

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

The tailstock is a full 2" longer
Called a driveline place, today. If I bring it in early morn, they can have finished by end of day. I'll bring it in this afternoon.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Brought the shaft in for 1 1/2" shortening - had enough existing play. Should have back late tomorrow.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...93-post47.html

You honestly consider those small dents to be expected by most customers? And somehow designing a tube that doesnt require those has to hang 2" lower?

Anyways, clearing the pan is a problem with your design. Headers to Y-pipe to trans pan are in no way related to the chassis as the engine/trans dimensions are universal for all common production LSx

hawksthirdgen

Hi,
Any pics of your Y pipe?? I am open to suggestions, maybe we can compare designs I am trying to get the best ground clearance possible and work around the chassis and trans. When you are installing all of this in the same car THEY ARE RELATED!! As I have done over 50 LSX swaps here at the shop and BELIEVE ME, I know no two are exactly the same! Come on man !

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Driveshaft back and in. I guess the shortening was the cost of 5th planetary and longer output shaft of the 65e from a 06 GTO.
Now for the trans shift cable bracket to fit between trans pan and header/v-clamp.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

The shift cable and shift bracket really fit snug. Left the Park/Neutral electrical connection on the shift bolt - bad move; had to mangle it to get it off - but I won the fight. Had to cut the shift bracket and re-weld to bring the bracket away from the trans pan. Trimmed the lip on the trans pan to clear the movement of the shift cable. These pics show the nut on the cable being very close to the v-clamp. I am holding the v-clamp finger tight while taking the pics. The nut is close but is aft of the v-clamp in Park position. So, the bracket and nut should arc up and back (towards y-pipe) and since it's already aft of the v-clamp, I'm hoping everything is OK.
Will re-check tomorrow and put up the y-pipe & intermediate to see what the fitment is like over the track pak crossmember. Quit early today to watch the Brewers win .

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Here's a pic of the stock bracket (700R4) and were I made the cuts, then re-welded back together to keep the same vertical length of the bracket. After cleaning up and grinding, you would never know that it's not stock.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Here's the final arrangement. Today, I moved the shift lever in the cabin all the way to 1st gear. I could not move it again as the leverage on the linkage was all wrong.
I swapped the shift cable over to the other side of the shift bolt bracket. The angle of the cable is much better and has more leverage on the shift bracket.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Bruce told me to rotate (counter-clockwise) till I had clearance on the driveshaft. I had to rotate it all the way under the driveshaft and the flange is still contacting the shaft - what will the v-clamp do? In these pics, you can see how downward facing the pass side y-collector is facing. No way is this correct.
Where the y-collector is - that should be horizontally flat to the ground, IMO. This much rotation is not good. It's Saturday, so I'm stuck till I can contact him.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

These pics should be approx. correct as the y-collector is relatively horizontal to the ground. The tube is no longer directly under the driveshaft as I rotated it clock-wise from last pics (I think that should be correct, too. I still have contact with the driveshaft!
I think I'm OK against the heat shield: note; I took 3/4 of Pocket's suggestion and cut out all the flat area where the cats were, just left two attach points and kept the shield along the frame rail where the tube will pass along.

IMO, I may have to bend down the last bend before the collector to stay away from the driveshaft. Don't know what that would do for the intermediate flanges matching up, or even the pass side tube into the Y. Again, stuck on the weekend till business hours. Frustrated, can't make progress .

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Is the rear axle on jackstands or at full droop?

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

jackstands are under the LCA mounting boxes

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

swap is looking good man.. nice work.. i currently own a 06 gto with the 6.0l motor.. u will love the power!!! it is amazing.. i personally would have went with a 6spd but to each his own.. ur ganna love it either way..

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Move them to the axle tubes so the rear is at ride height. DS will move up to proper angle and afford some clearance. Granted, your exhaust system should be able to clear everything the full range of the suspension travel, but sometimes you just have to pick and choose, esp with custom and aftermarket parts

If its at ride height and you're still extremely close you may want to look into cutting and rewelding the Y-pipe

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Shipped the y-pipe back to Hawks to check out.
Decided to attack some wiring. Drilled holes out of the plastic bracket for old PCM. I used ties to attach both and put the plastic piece back up there - yeah I clipped the ties after the pic.
2nd pic is the mounting of the diagnostic link. I had threaded it through to the driver's side and it wasn't long enough. Called Bruce - yeah, we put it on the pass side. It fits OK on the kick panel. I'll look for some kind of cover - anyone know of one?
3rd pic are wires left; long green speedo wire; a very short 12v brake light wire; and the nest of optional auto trans wire (I'll just tuck these up there). Anyone know where these two wires go? I'm electrically illiterate.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Here's a pic of the dual catch can routing. The one I'm not sure of is the one I routed under the TB to the port on the other side - can't tell if its in the TB spacer or if it's from the manifold, seems to be slightly angled. There's only one port on the pass side of TB. I do not have any on the CAI or the MAF.

The CAI is silicone tubing. I'm thinking of heat shield tape all around and around MAF to prevent heat soak. Anyone have any luck with that? I'd rather have performance than looks, both would be better.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

ALDL cap is common on some GM cars. Check junkyards. IIRC late 90's grand prixs have them alot

ECM looks nice on that tray. The smaller GEN IV ECMs are alot easier to hide than the enormous GEN III PCMs

Speedo wire goes to C207 pin K (BRN). You will have to locate the buffer box and jumper pins C and F

Brake switch comes from the C100 near the booster. Probably easier to run a single external wire under the dash than trace one all the way around the engine bay. You'll have two brake switches, you want the PPL wire

Catch can routing looks right. Dont worry about heat soak in the silicone. First off, silicone doesnt transmit heat very well. Second, even if it did, the air isnt in the tract long enough to absorb enough to even register a difference. The IAT for later MAFs is insulated against the case so regardless temp the MAF housing is, it only reads air temp

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

I don't see a PPL Brake, here. Am I looking in the wrong spot?
Board's not letting me copy the pin-out for C100, https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...formation.html post 20

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Once I connect C to F, I can throw the buffer box away. Just letting you know Pocket that I am learning from you. Thanks!!

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

C100 E7

For future searches, brake switch: 88-92 is C100 E7, 82-87 its C207 P. Only applies to 4L60E/80E guys

rock861261

is it a positive or negitive ?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

12v +, then open when depressed

http://www.austinthirdgen.org/mkport...8_vinE_TCC.jpg
http://www.lt1swap.com/pictures/16_a...amp_switch.gif

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

This should be the last wire. It's labeled "Lt Blu @ AC Switch." What do I do with this? Also, I believe I have a HVAC connector from harness with no connector for it. Is it just dead, now?
I may still have to figure out a fuel pump relay, as the fuse box has the fans in it, but not fuel pump relay.
Getting close - if only that y-pipe...

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

As it sits it is dead

In the pic the wire you want is the bottom and is dirty. Its not actually AC switch, but AC request from the headunit

Ignore the DK GRN/WHT wire, it was fan override switch that will no longer be reused. You need to connect the heavy BLK wire to a ground source (cyl head is a good place) and the heavy RED wire in the upper left of the pic to a 12v battery source. These power the blower fan and it will not function if both are not connected

Fuel pump fuse is not in the fuseblock under the dash. It is external in its own little cap near the battery shared with the PCM batt source

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

I followed Pocket's directions on the wiring.
Here is pics of the heater control valve: I cut the stock rubber hose (metal pipe up to HCV) down to lower the positioning of the valve; used a straight piece of 5/8" tube for rear pump connecton; and used 3/4" tube with an angling spring for the front connection to the metal tube on the rail. Needs a little more finesse, later. Some of these things I'll "beautify," later on.
I'm planning on running the battery (pass side tray) line down the rail, around/over the header, and back forwards to the starter. The starter has plenty of intall/removal clearance; but one tube is close to solenoid. Thinking about wrapping that, along with some other lines.

What is that connection on the steel A/C line going to the condenser (just left of HCV)? Will the new ECM now control that function?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Fan switch. If your harness came with the connector for AC pressure sensor, then unscrew that and install one from a LT1 4th gen

The 3rd gen setup uses a series of high/low pressure switches to override the AC clutch if the pressure drops/spikes. The LSx PCM monitors it directly and controls the AC relay. The Switch in your pic kicked on the fan when pressure was detected

There are no steel AC lines, only aluminum. The steel line is for the heater core and bypass valve (pictured). For a LSx swap Id suggest deleting them and running common 5/8 and 3/4 hose. Cramming the stock stuff down low just makes it harder to service

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

There are no wiring connections for A/C high press switch on the harness. In the Bussman box there is an "ACC" relay; I'm assuming the ECM is controlling that function as the fan relays are located there as well.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Not sure, you may have to trace the circuit with a meter

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

I figure that I may have about 3/4" clearance. Less than that when that driveshaft weight spins around. V-clamp is only half way tight in these pics - could get another 1/8".

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Went to tighten everything up, and lost all my clearance.
I have never been this frustrated in my life!

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Time to cut and weld or start from scratch?

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Well, I am starting from scratch as far as trouble shooting. It must be the motor mounts - last thing to check before cutting & welding.
I discovered that the motor is on a very slight angle. First pic, oil pan looks angled against k-member - not sure if car is exactly straight on stands or the pavement, or the k-member, or if my head is on straight.
Next pic is of the tab on the clamshell on driver's side (pass is fine). It is not fully seated against the Spohn mount, but very close. Again, not sure if any of this is statistically significant. I have the motor mount bolts loosened as I'm trying for any kind of play. Could I have the bolts in, and still be misaligned to any significant degree? Trans mount appears to be spot on. Doubtful the Spohn mounts are misaligned when re-using 3 of 4 bolts holes.
Third pic is motor from front.
It does appear that the driver's side is slightly elevated vs pass side. Even if I am misaligned to any degree, it would be in the wrong direction to get exhaust to driveshaft clearance.
I'm confused.

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

Sorry to hear your problems man, seems you have been fighting alignment issues around every corner.

Before any irreversable cutting and welding, I would loosen everything up and complete a few checks first. These motor mounts are assymetrical and with you having one ill fitting I would confirm you first have both in the correct position. Once thats done, loosen up all mounting bolts, motor mount to motor, k-member mounts to motor mounts and trans to x member mount. Center the engine in your K member and then center the trans on the X member and tighten it down to keep the trans centered at the back. Finally recenter the motor on the K member. If that doesn't help align things you may have a bigger problem.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

I may just be chasing a phantom prob, here. From up top, the motor looks fine. You have to be suspicious and look for a prob to see any prob. The oil pan to k-member, though, looks like it is at an angle. Not sure if that's a valid reference point but that is where it looks off the most. That tab on clamshell to Spohn k-member mount is just a hair up from being fully seated. Again, not sure if it is significant or not. I did not struggle with getting the bolts in. The trans mount to trans crossmember is right on and flat - perfectly aligned, there. For the Spohn mount, I bolted the three and drilled through the fourth mount hole into the k-member. Can't imagine that's the prob. Clamshells are brand new with prothane inserts.

Even if this is off, slightly. The pass side would have to come up slightly with the drivers going down ( 1/16 to 1/8 max). That's opposite of what would be needed for the header collector repositioning to gain better clearance at the end of y-pipe to driveshaft.

Maybe I'm just vainly chasing fractions of an inch, here.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

1/16-1/8" I wouldnt worry about. If yours looked like this guy's, then sure get upset

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...ked-after.html

The rubber/poly mounts crush, so a small amount of difference is expected. The engine should also rock a few more degrees when revved. A perfectly level engine is simply an ideal, not a reality. The driveline angle however is very important, so check it out with the rearend supported

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for the reassurance Jon!
At high noon, it really does not look bad at all. I'm Looking for Probs that really aren't there! Standing in front of the car, the driver's fuel rail looks just a tad higher than the pass fuel rail - that may be true to manufacturer. You can't tell by looking - only if you go looking can I then see something. I'm think I'm overthinking and looking for phantoms.
The pass header has tight tolerances by frame rail, a-arm ear, & trans bell housing - that's why I had to drop trans to get it in. It fits perfectly right around all three. If I had mount probs, I'd probably have probs here for sure. I loosened up the header to see if there's any play and NADA.

Whenever I tighten the pass side y-pipe to header collector flanges, the back of y-pipe hits the driveshaft, every time no matter what I try. I'm beginning to think that the header collector flange is tilted up too high forcing the y-pipe too high into the driveshaft. No way to prove that: drop trans, remove header, ship to SW, "yeah it's perfect dere, yeah." I just don't know and no way to prove what I don't know.

My welding skills are not that great to attempt stainless. If I have to go to all this trouble of trailering it in to a shop, might as well fix the dents in the pipe, too. Way too much time, struggle, effort for a "fit like a glove" application.