HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

As I have been upgrading my ride over the years, I have always had a long term plan of a supercharged street car that can run well at the track with a few adjustments. Upon leaving motocross racing after many, many years, I always told myself I would one day have the ole’ TransAm setup with the power to weight ration of a 250 cc 2-Stroke.

A few have questioned why I have been running the elbow in the past; however the plan has always been to be forced induction, with just time needed to grow into it. Well, it is time to make good on that promise. After stumbling on a few great deals recently; it has set the stage for the next build sooner than expected … always a good thing.

Foundation is based on a 99 LQ4 block, which came with the BNIB Eagle forged rotating assembly. Parts gathered to date are:
1999 6.0L block, to be bored 0.30”
Eagle ESP forged crank, 4” stroke
Eagle ESP H beam forged rods with ARP 2000 bolts
Arias 2618 forged pistons, -29cc dished, with moly rings
King crank and rod bearings
Will be staying with my existing headers from the LS1, which although oversized it ran very well at high RPMS on the road course. (It was a blast on the long straights!) They are 2” primary into 3.5” collectors; that run into a single 4” Mufflex exhaust, so it should be sized well for this new setup.

Also maintaining my Edelbrock Victor Jr intake, elbow, and 95mm PTM throttle body currently running. The Patriot 243 heads I recently ported, polished, with new guides during my last build may also be repurposed; but we’ll see where the funds are at when that time comes…. Cam will be selected at a later date as well.

Well, here is what all the fuss is about …. F1C Procharger, ported by Steve Morris. (Stole the wifes favorite blanket to pimp her out for the pic. LOL)

Plan is to start with a 4” pulley, with the option it can be turned up later. Intake was previously plumbed for direct N2O shot too, so another power adder option available, if ever needed.

Car is currently stripped down and prepped for a 10 point cage install which will also include a diagonal bar to make it compliant with ASN Canada Time Attack regulations should the new tracks to be built locally come to fruition in the near future.


I need to finalize my intercooler placement soon as I plan to have it mounted when the car is in for the cage. Have a few ideas I will be passing across you guys soon. I have plans to add some ventilation to front of the TransAm which will include a little cutting.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Looks like a stout setup. You doin air to air or air to water intercooler?

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

I have thought about cutting the front bumper to let more air in to the I/c but worried about how it would look.

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

Going with a 4" thick Air to Air intercooler. I am concerned with getting enough air flow to it though with the TransAm bumper in place, that is why I have been considering some bumper mods. With a 4" thick IC mounted in the airway, it consumes a large amount of the stock flow path to the rad, creating a pretty skinny airflow path that is already making a few turns even tighter. I also tried placing the IC about 2" below the radiator cross brace, which would leave the bottom of the IC about 3" above the bottom of the front spoiler, which should be enough warning room before damage to the IC would occur should I drag the spoiler on the driveway. This frees up some of the airpath and would let the bottom part of the IC flow below the radiator.

It should be fine for the initial boost setup, so I could just leave the bumper stock unless intake temps start coming in high. Being in Western Canada, the temperatures are generally cooler with less humidity, so I do have that on my side. Would prefer to just have it done right the first time though.

One other questions I have is if it is better to maintain flow through both IC and rad together by keeping them close or is it best to have a few inches of gap between? Closer together should provide laminar flow through both, whereas having a gap between would likely cause turbulence before the rad.

Here are a couple pics I have been gathering of other possible bumper mod solutions. I really like the black car mods, but it looks to have an aftermarket skirt which is longer than stock. The photoshop pics I found on this site of the red car isn't not too bad either in my opinion.

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

Thought this was kind of cool. Inside the front bumper reads "Made By The Colonels In The Good Old USA"

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

I put my 31x12x4 ebay intercooler in front of the radiator in the pic attached. Car heats up a little more than it used to without the I/c, but once the car starts moving, the temps come down.

I have thought about cutting a hole but am not sure how it would look. You would almost need someone to do some fiberglass work on the opening for it to look factory.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I would think it would be better to space the cooler off the rad leaving a gap between. These cars are bottom breathers. Hard to get air flow across intercooler being so thick so i wouldnt want to block off the rad. Plus the rad heat will super heat the intercooler making it ineffective

I would also consider a small aux fan on intercooler to pushor pull air thru it

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

I'm def going to be looking at this thread. Im in the process of going supercharger but was going to run the meth injection I have. Only problem with meth is the container has to be full but wiper fluid is only like $1-$1.99 a gallon Makes IC plumbing not necessary

either way I though about plumbing a cheap smaller IC setup in the front of the car but heating the motor up to cool the intake charge is counter productive. What if you mounted 2 small IC behind the Fog lights with scoops that would grab low cool air? Then plumb it back to the TB? That way you don't stick anything in front of the rad. Camaro guys got it easy!

Another option and I didn't even think about it would be to do what Orr said and mount a dedicated Puller fan to pull air through it at all times to cool the air.

But how are you guys measuring IC sizes for your application? Isn't it base HP multiplied by some number to get the CFM needed?

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

I just hooked up a 12" puller fan behind the 'hot' side (side of the I/c where the blower feeds into) of the I/c and took a drive. Turned on the fan half-way into the drive and couldn't really see the iat temps drop. Pulled into the garage and let the car idle and turned it off with the hood closed and fan on, and the iat's kept climbing.

I will still try to cool the iat's in the staging lanes to see if helps any, right now, I can't see the benefit. Just putting your hand in front of the I/c when the fan is on you can definitely feel a lot of air moving.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

You should have seen more stable temps even at idle with fan on. But the real test should be during a few full boost gear pulls. Heat the cooler up and see if the total rise in iat is reduced with fan on. Every few deg helps

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Yea it sounds like you got a problem for it to keep heating up. Have you hit it with an IFR heat gun before and after the fan being on?

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

I have a heat gun I can use to judge before and after, but that is only on the I/c itself. If the I/c gets 'a little' cooler but the iat's don't go down then it's not a benefit. Right now I have 16 gauge wire on the fans as a temp hookup and will put some 12 gauge on it tonight with a relay to see if it gets better.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Wheres the iat sensor?

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

I doubt you will see any cooler operation with the change in conductor size. If it hasn't burnt up the 16 gauge, it isn't drawing much for amps and will be a minimal change in voltage to the fan itself.

Looks like you are running the A/C condenser are you? Do you see any change to IAT when it is On/Off?

I was looking at other options that wouldn't impact the looks of the front bumper cover and it would be possible to modify the front bumper supports and underside of the bumper cover to allow more air to enter the area. It seems pretty congested without a IC already.

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

You got me thinking of another route and idea. Thx

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

Quite congested when the air dams are in place. Intercooler is dropped 2" below rad support in pic. I am liking this height though, it allows about 4" of rad exposure above the IC for direct air flow on top. I'm thinking move the IC 1" forward, to give it some clearance from rad, allowing a flow path direct to the rad. May even tilt forward enough to install the fan later.

Then clean 5" of front bumper supports from the front of the IC. In going this route, I think I could get the air flow path directed the same as stock, only requiring cutting to the bottom of the bumper cover. From the front, you wouldn't even see it is cut.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

HP52TA... ive actually lowered my raditator and super large trans cooler to about that height where you have your IC. I lowered it 1.5" from stock to help with cooling for a more direct flow path. Even then with a trans cooler about 24x17" (ford super duty trans cooler) If I placed a IC where you have it I don't think it would work very well for forcing the air in. Could be wrong but the radiator on the firebird (more than the camaro) is not just a bottom feeder but relies on the air dam to create a high pressure zone and a vacuum on the engine side to actually Pull air through the radiator vs pushing it though.

So to sum it up I would be less worried about the direct flow path and more about still creating a efficient air dam to produce more high pressure/low pressure area. I would run it how you have it as it looks like it still has some room in front to help suck colder air in from the front.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Not sure this is accurate. The IC material is the main thing in what helps it cool. An aluminum air to air IC will pull the heat out of the hotter air and transfer it to the aluminum and thus the air. Heating the IC with a torch will directly change the air temp inside. Which is why you dont stick a IC over the exhaust or in a congested area. The cooler the actual IC (like a water to air) will only benefit the air temp inside. Your basically looking for a decent change in IC temps vs IATs.

While you might not see a huge temp drop from one side to the other on the IC the actual temp of the IC as a whole will net you some useful information. If you IC is running hotter than your IATS then its doing its job... but then you need to look at how much air its getting to cool it or look into if its large enough to be efficent.

Engine coolant radiators are the same way.... you only see about a 10*F drop from the hot side to the cold side and that's if its efficient and working correctly. But its about it keeping the coolant cool enough to keep the engine within your operating temps. So although its only a 10*F drop its keeping the engine at a constant 180*F. An Air to air IC is not as efficient.

larger gauge wire might only offer less voltage drop due to its higher voltage/current capabilities which could result in slightly better performance but not enough to warrant a huge change. As stated if it didnt burn up it prob won't offer much. Also depending on your fan (16 gauge is pretty frigin thin) so im assuming you have a cheap universal fan... which does not really pull much air... esp not at static pressure (pressure created when trying to pull through something). A better quality fan will do wonders. I would look into a SPAL fan with the MAX DIA you can use to cover most of the IC Core. They are very powerful and you should be needing a 14 gauge wire minimum. I run 10 gauge on my fans and I always stick to OEM aftermarket as the OEM are the highest quality and performance. If required and I can't find an OEM setup to fit my needs i will only go with SPAL.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Has anyone thought of mounting the IC over the engine in a cowl style hood? Like the subarau STI or the early 80s mustang 4 cyl SVOs?

Seems like a nice little spot with less IC piping and routing. A larger cowl hood like a 4" would offer a decent low pressure zone at the base of the windshield creating some nice air pressure shooting down from the windshield getting sucked in from the cowl.

Ive seen come vortec Supercharger kits that do this or around that area on our cars as well.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

http://www.vettemod.com/forum/imageh...3691eb06d8.jpg

http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/atta...1&d=1220064008

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Top mount air air would heatsoak to hell and back. Air water woul work and could mount the tank in the nose. 3-4 gallon should be enough with a small Rule pump or the bosch cobra pump oems use.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

If big front mount is a concern i would attempt this

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

That is how I have mine mounted. It is almost touching the bumper support and to get it to lean to get a space between the I/c and fan/frame it is sitting on I would have to but the support.

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

I don't have an a/c condenser, only radiator, I/c and trans cooler.

I will have to look up the model number of the fan, but it is a 12" brand fan that pulls a lot of air. I will have to look up the part number on summit to see the cfm rating. it is moving some air, there is no doubt about that with your hand in front and behind the fan. On my 4" ebay intercooler, the hot side is hot to the touch where the blower inlet is and the opposite side is cold to the touch where it feeds the motor, so the I/c is doing some work. I would have to jack up the car to get temp gun readings tomorrow with the car running and fan off/on. I have space for both 12" fans, but would have to move my trans cooler somewhere else.

I guess the better experiment would be to pull off the bumper cover vs leaving the cover on, and driving around to see if the iat's drop with the I/c hitting cold air directly. If they do, then at least a hole cut in the lower bumper cover would benefit the I/c with more airflow. Otherwise a meth kit I think would be a better investment than the fans behind the I/c.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

It can't be that bad the the IC on top the motor... its like a carb air cleaner. I know the STI's do it all day just like the WRXs and they run a good bit of boost. Also the 80's 4cyl turbo stangs did it as well.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Theres a reason why all those guys go front mount lol

Engine temp is usually near 200 deg. With extra exhaust plumbin in a turbo car you may see much higher ambient air temps under the hood. The cooler will soak badly.

My 305 has air pipe coming up from below between rad fans and crank pulley. It soaks iat to 130 deg when just driving around and thats with 60-70 deg ambient air running under car for 10 ft before hitting that 1 ft section.

Not a good idea for air to air

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

Yes, I agree. That too is part of my thoughts. The stock air dam would be used to drive air into the inlet area. With the gap between the IC and body providing a path directly to the rad itself, even though it would be small. With lowering the IC, it would allow a direct path to top of the rad for additional direct cooling.

For the IC itself, a small air dam could be added to the lower portion, which would scoop air into the IC.

If I can fit it in on the weekend, I am going to mock this idea up.

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

Yep, sawsall may come out this weekend.

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

I would be very interested to hear how it impacts IATs.

Ran meth on my truck when it had a turbo. Even with only 6 PSI of boost it dropped IATs by 20 degrees. Would run into knock retard without. I like that route better than fans too, not much room in between the two for them.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

You could go meth only kit with progressive control and a trunk mount 3 gallon tank with no intercooler at all. Dual nozzle on progressive will keep things cool. But the top of the line kits are somewhat pricey

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

Finally had a chance to breakout the sawzall and grinder.

Plan is to increase the size of the air box under the front bumper, without any cuts to the front of the bumper cover, although some mods will be required to its bottom portion to match the new bumper cut. With a few minor sheet metal modifications to the stock upper air dam, it too should be modifiable to fit in the increased opening size.

This really opened up the flow path. Even with the mods to the bumper support, I will be able to run the absorber on the bumper frame to support he bumper cover and suspect the absorber will only require a minor modification to its bottom to maintain the enlarged flow path opening.

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

So your plan is to cut an opening in the front lower bumper cover or run an air dam/scoop under the bumper cover to divert air up into the I/c?

If it's the 2nd option then I might have to try and create an air scoop my self.

Just for reference, last time at the 1/8 mile track on the 6.76 @ 105 run:

1. the air temp was 70 degrees,
2. iat's at start-up was 82 degrees,
3. then driving to the staging lanes and starting burnout iat's were 88
4. after burnout iat's were 90
5. launch iat's were 93 and ended at 127 at finish line at 11.5lbs of boost.
6. iat's after getting time slip and driving back to the pits were 108

This is the ebay 31x12x4 intercooler for $150. My iat sensor is in the steel intake pipe about where the a/c compressor used to sit. I guess I could put the iat sensor in a silicone coupler, but I am not sure how much reduction in temp this would give me, assuming the steel intake pipe retains that much radiator/engine compartment heat.

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for sharing the temperatures on that run, it will be a good baseline for us to reference in the future. I am assuming your IAT sensor is mounted in the tubing with a rubber grommet, therefore it should isolate the sensor from the tubing.

Here is the next part of my plan mocked up. Another member has a spare front bumper cover I am hoping to pickup soon, so have held off making any cuts to the cover I have for now, however the plan is to remove the areas covered in green tape from the bumper cover. Inside the cover itself, I am planning to fabricate a support piece that will run between the two outer supports. I have used duct tape to represent the place where I will add some 2" aluminum angle to support the lower portion of the bumper. The vertical side of the aluminum angle will be cut down from 2" to 1/2 or 3/4" to minimize weight, with 2" flat aluminum added to the ends, extending them to the stock mount outer locations, where it can then be bolted to the bottom of the bumper support per stock. Where the aluminum support will be installed, it too will bolt to the stock air diverter (no shown), which I plan to extend into the modified air box.

Intercooler is mounted 3" horizontally away from the rad support, which with no A/C condenser will be about 5-6" away from the rad itself. Although the IC is hanging below the rad support, it will still be about 3" above the stock front air dam in this position. Planning to have my fabricator add a 3/4" lip to the front bottom of the IC itself, at a slight downward angle to act as a small spoiler directing air into the IC. If IATs need additional reduction, I could always extend this lip further to catch more air. The stock front spoiler will continue to redirect air into the rad area and create a high pressure area in the air box. Even with the IC in this location, there will still be plenty of air flow directly to the rad, both from the bottom 3" gap and the 6" of space above the IC.

Looking forward to cutting the cover to see the real results of these mods, then mock up the air dam. From the mock up so far, it looks like it should greatly increase the air available. You guys see any issues that I may have missed in this plan?

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

I think I will have to cut the bumper support like you did. My I/c is sitting up against the radiator support about the same height as yours, but sitting flush against the support, so there is no gap for air to go up from the air dam into the radiator. When it was hot outside this summer, the temps would get up over 195 in stop and go traffic and it never did that before the I/c was installed.

I searched the internet for intercooler scoops and instead of cutting the bumper, you could make a dedicated scoop like these:

The turbo buicks had these from the factory:
http://www.kirbanperformance.com/pro...P+%236917.html

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Also depends on cooler efficiency to begin with. My old treadstone would go from ~85-90 deg start after burnout and run to 170 deg after a high 8 low 9 sec pass at 25 psi. I maybe maxed out that core size but it was in a camaro with open grille so airflow was no problem but still didnt help.

A good intercooler should do better with less air flow. Just getting some air in there will be good imo.

Make a scoop or extend the air dam to get air up thru and it should work ok

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

"My old treadstone would go from ~85-90 deg start after burnout and run to 170 deg after a high 8 low 9 sec pass at 25 psi."

That doesn't make sense if the I/c is rated at 1300hp, right? How was it at lower boost levels? I thought about buying that I/c but couldn't see any results on if it was any better or worse than the ebay 4" I/c's.

The chiseled air to air is $999 and at that price I would hope it would reduce temps on your set-up, otherwise switch to air to water would almost be inevitable.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Lol 1300 hp rating i think was bogus. Lower boost levels i believe it rose to 130 on a 15 psi pull.

I went air water and never had a problem since. 110 deg after a 30 psi pull down the track

My friend ran chiseled air air on his 94 firebird. Lack of direct air flow issue as common in birds. Still saw high iat, 160-170 on 22-23 psi on low 8 sec pull. Also switched to air water now and is much cooler. Chiseled is a good core but no airflow made it inefficient

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

That custom pic attached is some nice work. Once I have the air path finalized, that is my next step. I am planning to build an enclosure out of aluminum sheeting within the air box area to force all incoming air into the IC and rad, very similar to your example.

Test fit the rad tonight and found 5" between the front of the rad and back of IC; looks like it should flow well. Also picked up a used Stage 2 meth kit as backup, just in case.

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

Picked up a second front bumper cover from skinny z, then started the with the mods to increase the size of the flow path in the lower portion of the cover to match with the bumper support mods. Will be adding an aluminum support inside to provide some stiffness between the two remaining mounts. This will also be the starting point for the "air box" encasing the IC and rad inlet inside the flow path. Here are a few pics to show the areas removed and the differences.

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

Car is now over at the fabricators receiving the roll cage so not much happening until it returns.

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

Car is back from my fabricator with the completed cage and intercooler mount. Will post up pics later.

My parts from my Black Friday shopping marathon have been picked up as well, so should have all the major pieces needed to complete this build, except for body and moulding parts for the repaint. This Canadian dollar really sucks right now on the exchange, as least the border security guy never charged me duty for the Xmas booze, so I made a bit back there. Lol

GenX'Motorsport

Im very Surprised nobody asked what HP & TQ you are looking for. Reason im curious, is that my build im planning is about identical. Only with AFR heads. and a few other small differences. So, whats the power/time's goal with this T/A? Theres also a guy over on the LS1TECH power adder forums. Forget his name, but he sells prochargers and helps out alot of the 4th Gen guys get there setups properly matched. He's helped a ton of guys there with with 6.0's and 408's make 800-900+ RWHP with his recipe.

no new tires

"Bob at Brute Speed"

skinny z

Just picked on your thread. I'll be following along as the blower setup has always interested me.

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

Going to start with a 4" pulley, which should be somewhere around 700RWHP. I'll get the engine and chassis tuned in at that power level, then step it up until I work my way into the 9s. With 4:10 gears currently in the rear and plan to run a 28" tire, I will be limited to around 130 MPH, which should let me break-in. As I have never owned a car this fast before, I will judge where I go from there, once that goal has been reached. Short block parts are being upgraded to handle 1000+ HP, so will have lots of room to grow from this current setup.

I have been dealing with a couple different guys along the way, Bob at Brute Speed was one of my initial contacts, great to deal with and a wealth of knowledge, but he referred me to Justin at Indiana Musclecar for the Third Gen FI application. Justin has been great to deal with as well over the last couple years which I have been compiling brackets and parts, including the last purchase of the F1C I picked up from him.

Recently, I have been working with Arun from CC Performance here in Canada to spec a custom cam for my application. We ended up with a slightly modified version of his Jam Cam, which he has higher HP goals for me.

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

Now that the cage is finished, I scrubbed it down with scotch brite pads then coated it with POR 15 for protection. Mods beyond the NHRA 10 point cage requirements for Time Attack were the front dash bar, diagonal bar on main hoop and upsizing of the horizontal bar to 1.625" moly.

Also got started mocking up the intercooler piping to the engine bay. My plan is to run 3" aluminum tubing which matches the supercharger outlet. Hoping I can sneak these front tubes in between the frame and inner fenders.

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

Managed to find some time to create a template for the intercooler air dam. Built the template out of cardboard with all the angles required to fit with the bumper cover cutout. The air dam will be bolted to the upper bumper lip (Where vise grips are located in picture) with the lower section either bolting or riveted to the bumper cover to provide additional support to both the dam and cover.

Also cut up the stock plastic radiator air dam to create two side dams between the sides of the intercooler and rad support area. This will help direct air from the bottom, where the original spoiler sends air up into the rad area. These side air dams still used the stock mounting holes and push pins to retain them in place. The stock upper filler cover itself will provide the finishing touch up top.

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

Also completed the 3" intercooler piping into the engine bay and tested the fenders to confirm fit. I used a 180 at the corner and cut the angle to fit the hump hose coupling just inside the fender, allowing easy removal of engine bay pipes. Will have these two lower tubes on each side welded to minimize couplings.

Couple pics of the complete air dam mock up, before prep and paint.

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

I made a simple air scoop, nothing as advanced as yours. I still need to take it back off and bend the back side up so it funnels air to the i/c instead of passing air through it.

Badass355ciz28

iTrader: (17)

Coming along nicely man