GhostRanger

Spent last year building this car after getting the bug from helping my brother in law with his drag car. It is not much but it is a start that I should be able to get better with. Name "Black Jack" is from my daughter and it has just stuck.

Specs:
1982 Camaro Sport Coupe
350 SBC, 9.5:1 compression, Comp Cams XE262 cam (.492 intake/.500 exhaust - 214 intake/224 exhaust) with 1.6 roller tip rockers, Dart Iron Eagle 180 heads, milled to 69cc chambers, Assault Racing dual plane air gap intake, Holley 650 4150 DP carb.
TH350 trans
3000 Stall Converter
Hedman long tube headers, extended to run back to mid door and dump to side of car.
Braced 10 bolt w/3.23 posi gears
Specs updated 6-25-2016
Specs updated again 10-2-2016

Fastest it has run so far is 15.228 @91.47 MPH in the 1/4 mile. Still has more in her and me as I learn what I am doing.

Here are some pics as well as one of the last time slip. I'm car #712 in the right lane.

L0tuS

iTrader: (3)

not to sound like an A hole but why so slow that's like stock tbi 305 1/4 Times where are u located where u spinning a lot off the line

AlkyIROC

He's in Utah and a 2.33 60' time is probably spinning. MPH is good for a 14 second pass.

GhostRanger

Not spinning but I am not launching at high enough rpm. I know it should be faster. I admit I am a noon at this. Higher launch rpm and will pick it up a lot.

paul_huryk

What is your altitude? Utah is no where near sea level...

Wolfster14

Everyone starts somewhere.
You and the car will get better as time goes on.
The Main thing is to have a good time.
Like the name. Good luck.

GhostRanger

Thanks. Considering the first passes I made were 16s I'm happy just getting faster. Just need to learn and get better. Also any tips are apreciated.

Wolfster14

You will find plenty of tips on here. This a great site. You will find every motor and tranny combo you can think of. Don't be afraid to ask questions either here or at the track.
That is how you learn. Lots of us started with cars in the 16s
There are tons of builds in the achieves too. That can save you time and money.

AlkyIROC

My car when I bought it had a crappy old school 383 with smog heads and a 700R4. I got it down to the low 14's the first season I raced it. It started off as a very restrictive running 15.6. After the first season of racing, I swapped out the trans for a TH350 with a converter stall better suiting the cam that was already in the engine. I also changed out the restrictive heads for some hogged out camel heads with bigger valves. First pass on the second season and it ran 12.0. Everyone was asking me where I hide the NOS bottle.

After many years of racing and a whole lot of changes, the car now runs 9.0 and I know there's an 8 second pass in it if I can keep the front end on the ground.

It just takes time and money to go faster. You can go out with what you currently have and go round after round without breaking anything. Speed means nothing in a bracket race.

L0tuS

iTrader: (3)

first few passes it's to surreal to know what ur doing ur timing and coordination is way off from the excitement .my first time was in 89 stock v6 camaro my game plan in my head was light turns green I dump the clutch pre pair to feel the front tires get off the ground and slam back down bang thru all the gears and hope I have renuff room to slow down at the end.as u can imaging nothing happend at all like that. spend the first few times taking steps like taking of at the tree and how much it tires like to be heated in the burn out box

GhostRanger

That's the plan. Get used to things before I start really worrying about getting faster. Just learning what I am doing and getting consistent will get me faster in itself. Next races are in two weeks with a test and tune this week I make make it to. Will keep updating as things improve.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i see a lot of potential in that little guy. and yes everyone starts somewhere i was in a 17 second 2.8 car for my first ride.

right off the bat i see a few things i'd change. the cam is really too small, but it's not a game changer. i see no mention of converter size or stall speed. this would really benefit from a 10" 3000 stall in my opinion, as well as a gear change to some 3.73's. once those things are swapped out, i'd consider a good dual plane intake to better match the cam's rpm operating range, as that x-celerator wants to breath higher than your cam will make power. i'd look at the performer rpm air gap intake. lastly a 650 mechanical secondary carb would be more appropriate. if that doesn't jump it into the bottom 13's, even at your altitude, then something else is seriously overlooked.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Rocky Mountain Raceways is at 4400' elevation. For perspective, the NHRA altitude correction factor for that track is .9566, making that 15.228 a 14.56 at sea level.

I agree with Matt about the intake. It doesn't start making power until 4000 RPMs, so you'd need at least that much stall to get decent 60' times with it. Then the cam runs out of breath at 5200 RPMs - not much of a powerband. A Performer RPM or similar dual plane would help you on the low end and leave room for a future cam upgrade on the top end.

And also agree with Matt on stall, gears and carb. As for cam, you've got plenty of head to handle a lot more.

In the meantime, have fun. That's what really matters. My Camaro was in the mid-17's when I first started running it - now it dips into the 12's at our 5800' elevation (our correction factor is .9405...).

Oh, and work on those reaction times. After you stage and stall up, just look at that last yellow and nail it as soon as you see it come on. Amazing how many rounds can be won just by cutting a decent light. Racing may not be all about winning, but racing is fun; and when you win, you get to go back and have more fun!

fbodyfreakls1

i agree with the above strongly but the one thing i would want to change real bad would be compression, David Vizard claims 20 hp out of the average sbc for every full point of compression you jump. just my .02, some compression along with the above would really wake this thing up

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

yeah to be honest the whole engine needs to be rethought out, but i am giving him some solid unbolt this, re-bolt that for instant results.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Don't feel bad I mad a 15xx sec pass in my friends 02 SS and it ran high 12s. First time I had tried that 6spd/ 3.73 gears at the track and I roasted the tires. I imagine you will be in low 14s once you get it worked out.

GhostRanger

Thanks for all the input guys. I am gradually making improvements. Honestly I built the motor with the intention of it being a mild street car. As time as gone after I built the engine then got it put in I found I wanted to drag race so now I am dealing with the learning curve and what I have now. The next engine is already being planned and thought out much better.

Right now I have a 650 double pumper getting ready to go on as well as will be putting in a B&M shift kit. The stall is a 2000 rpm stall right now but will probably get upgraded in the near future along with some 3.73 gears. Cam will probably be in the works to soon though right now I am trying 1.6 rocker arms to help get more for the time being. I already had them other wise I would have just gone with a cam first.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

you may slow down with the double pumper if you stick with the current converter and gearing. the engine needs to be able to accelerate quickly into it's power band with a mechanical secondary carb, so don't throw the vacuum secondary out just yet as you may find it does better on the existing setup. this is why i mentioned it so far down in the list of things i'd consider changing, lol

GhostRanger

So a higher stall converter and better gears are what you would go with primarily?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

yes. a converter is probably the single biggest overlooked component in most people's cars. i believe that is the case here as well. once converter and gearing are corrected, swap out the intake. THEN do carb.

FirstBird

What Matt says! Do your gears first and be sure your rearend and suspension can take the heat. If so, swap out the intake then talk to a convertor manufacturer. It's not just about stall speed. They will need your car's specs. They can recommend the best option with your budget. Good place to spend extra if you can.

There is a great thread in the archives regarding 60 foot times where Fast383 talks about convertor dynamics. Once I read it I understood why my buddy's car with less motor, tire, and gear but more weight was faster even though I was using a stall speed recormmened by my engine builder. Got the right convertor after getting a recommendation from a vendor. Voila!!! Huge improvement in performance.

GhostRanger

Thanks, new stall ordered. 10" 3000 RPM stall will see what this does. I have a basic Performer intake that I took off to put the Wieand on. Would you recommend putting it back on or still getting a Performer RPM. Either way will probably end up running the Wieand for a bit until it is time for a new intake or just upgrade to a bigger cam.

Am waiting on gears until I have enough for a 9" then I can spend the money right and one time.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

sell both intakes and buy a performer rpm air gap.

i can appreciate saving for a 9"....but sometimes you can stumble upon some used gm 3.73's from an s10 or astro for pennies. then you can teach yourself how to set up gears (afterall, it's only a 7.5" 10 bolt, what's the worst you could do...screw it up? lol!)

Fireball

iTrader: (2)

doh...I threw away a used set of 3.73s for a 10-bolt last month. Nobody wanted them LOL

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-7-5-Chevy...xWIuKd&vxp=mtr

GhostRanger

Very good point

Dang it, bad timing on my part

GhostRanger

Alright. B&M shift improve kit installed and 3000 rpm stall converter got installed last weekend. Also picked up some 3.73 gears via flea bay that should be arriving soon. Won't get them in before the next race but with the changes made will see what the car does. On the street it is already a different beast.

GhostRanger

Alright so just finished the season. After putting a summit brand stall in the car it failed on me and I had to go back to the old 2000 stall for pretty well the rest of the season as well as not making any major changes since the car was consistent enough to go some rounds (that's bracket racing). The last points race was on the 16th of September and I finished 15th place for the year in points.

This past Friday was the last race of the year and was a race just for fun. I decided to make some decent changes to the car before putting it away for the winter and get in at least 3 passes to see what happened. It got a B&M 3000 stall converter, headman long tubes dumping right after the headers, air gap rpm style intake, and Holley 650 dp carb. Car ended up running its fastest pass of 14.334 @ 94.13 mph in the semi-final round. I went on to win the final and take home the trophy. Not a bad way to end the racing season.

GhostRanger

Ok, Walter. I have made some changes per the above. As the car is going ever more strip than street would you recomend going 3.73 or 4.11? Now that my season is over I am planning on changing to a 9" rear end. I have access to a third member with 4.11 posi gears and was thinking this would be the best route.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

considering it's still a 10 bolt probably, i'd stick with the 3.73 gears. while it may prefer the 4.11's, the head on the pinion gear becomes very small, and honestly, may prove to be unreliable. if you already own the 3.73's, put them in.

it's no surprise you dropped .9 with the new, better matched components. i believe it'll go 13's with the 3.73's and more tweaking/tuning.

skinny z

Did you run the entire season with open headers? First post says dumped right at the collector. No extensions?

GhostRanger

No I had a full exhaust with cutout on shorty headers. Changed stuff up right before the last race. Will be putting dumps out the side here shortly.

GhostRanger

Alright what about swapping it to a 9"? Think will be trailered to the strip and back with limited street time.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

a 9" will the the best thing you can upgrade on..
ya can get 31 spine axles and 3rd members/ lockers cheap (lockers $200)
just shop..

skinny z

Pay attention to the length of collector before your cutouts. There's plenty to lose in torque production with the wrong lengths.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

the 9" pinion is supported on both ends, so the issues that plague the 10 bolt are non-issues with the 9". if you put a 9" in the car, gear it correctly.

GhostRanger

Making some changes to the car in the off season. Not doing a 9" as it is out of the budget due to some things coming up. However, the interior is about stripped and I have pull all the factory style brackets and belts off the engine. Gone with an electric water pump and relocated the alternator to below the head. Looks a lot cleaner now.

Also the car should be down to about 2,700 lbs right now. Will go up some as I still need to get the sub-frame connectors installed. So far I am looking good for next season. Hoping for 13's.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

My gosh that is light! Wish I had your talent for weight reduction.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

that is light. is that confirmed on the scales? i don't see an iron headed gen 1 engine on a stock k-member with stock type steering being that light, but i've been wrong before...

GhostRanger

It may not be. Have not weighed it yet. Going based off of 3150 lbs GVW weight as listed in specs and deducting scale measured weights from what I have pulled from the car. Once weather gets decent again I will weigh the car and find out for certain.

AlkyIROC

Hahaha. Never believe that. The only real way to know the actual weight is to get it on a scale. There aren't too many third gens below 3300 pounds except maybe a no option 4 cylinder car plus you need to add your own weight since the car doesn't drive itself.

Most V8 third gens are closer to the 3400-3500 range but there are a few exceptions.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

we call this r!cer math it works with HP too!

did you swap gears out yet? if not, that thing is begging for some gear.

Wolfster14

Even if you cant get it down to 2700 don't sweat it. Anything you can take off will help.
Every 100 pounds you get out it is worth about a tenth on the slip.
More Racecar math

GhostRanger

Haha, that I what I figured.

Not yet, have a set of used 3.73's that will be getting put in come spring once the temps come up.

mdisav

posted wrong place

WickedBowtie

Mine weighed in at 2608 with aluminum headed sbc with all stock suspension. So it is possible to get them light. I have no idea what she's at now since I've cut even more weight..should know soon though. And these scales are used by a professional dirt track car builder so they should be really close to being dead on.

At the time of this pic my 4 gallon fuel cell was mounted in front driverside battery area and still had a stock seat in it. Fuel cell is in rear now and has an aluminum seat too.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

with a 10 bolt and no cage, right?

WickedBowtie

​​​​​​​Yep...new rearend was 63 lbs heavier..still no cage..and probably 90 more gone with front end work and hood...now if only I could lose weight....hahaha

​​​​​​​Or were you replying to his? Either way....

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

nope, i was asking you i need to lose weight again myself. put on a bit in 2016. pretty depressed about it truthfully.

GhostRanger

Glad to see they can get that light. What has been done to your car to pull the weight out of it.