luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Arrived Friday.... (to me yesterday)....
Seems to have some black rust coating... can't wait to try it out
A few weeks before I get it put in...

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

I'm interested in how it works out for you

I'm literally chomping at the bit to order one...... lol

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Nice!

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I spoke a bit with Turn One today to try and sort out my lack of any power steering assist. Jeff felt it was very likely to be the pump.

He also expounded on the Spool Valve I ordered and said that the lower valve would probably be about 3x heavier than the stock valve. So if it took 3lbs to move the wheel, it would probably take about 9lbs to move my wheel.

So, even with a working pump I'm probably going to have a heavy wheel.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I had to grind in these two circled areas to make it fit. The reason was the bo was hitting the triangle k-member brakes that stiffen the frame rail. They are too thin to cut. I chose to clearance the frame rail as it was faster and easier and wouldn't interfere with the pumps warranty (which is no good anymore cause Lee is out of business!)

frame rail doesn't need much of a message, just a little on the 4th tab.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Cool, thanks for the tip... working / saving up $$$ to take to mechanic... got some other things I want fixed too, so this is on the list... can't wait to see how it feels.. .Hopefully in the next few weeks...

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Installing it is probably going to just **** you off.

Why?

After I installed mine, it was unbelievable how much was slop was still there on parts I thought were perfectly fine. Because of how loose the old boxes are, it hides so much.

Now I have Founders Peformance strut mounts, all new steering parts, ball joints, A-arm bushings...etc.

You may find that spending money on the box makes you spend more money on the rest of it.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

All that is done... Alston & Spohn SFC's, UMI TQ Arm / Cross Member, Founders LCA's and Panhard, Bilstein Sturts & shocks, Moog stock height springs, Spohn Steering Kit, Global West Del a lum A arm bushings, new ball joints, new moog strut mounts, Astro Steering shaft, metal bearing for bottom of steering column, new poly sway bar links / bushings, etc... I'm ready

Rafael

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

I have recently gone through my entire front end with all moog pieces.... new founders strut mounts, poly bushings, bilstien struts and shocks, new springs, astro shaft and bearing, wonderbar...... it gets old spending the money for very little reward.

hopefully I can splurge on a box next month......

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Forgot the wonder bar & Jamex STB... yeah, I feel ya... suspension is much better, but as far as actual steering, I hope this box makes the most difference...

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Question (for all those more knowledgeable than me!)

Should I have any problem using my Astro steering shaft on the 600 box?

Thanks,

Rafael

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

From the pics I see, the stock 800 pump has a nipple on the end, but it seems it has the same 30 spline input....

Anywho... ordered 3 quarts of RedLine Synthetic Power Steering Fluid from Jegs....

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

It works with the stock steering shaft, so I dont' see a reason why it wouldn't work with the astro shaft.......

I'm half tempted to drive up there and help you put this in! I'm only 2.5 hrs from Tampa

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

If by help you mean I get my wallet out and pay you ?!?!?

I don't see to well and being I can't get my face close to where this thing mounts, needs grinding, etc... I'll have to pay a professional...

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Wasn't much looking when I was mocking it up.

Basically I took the old one out, put the new one in, tried to tighten two of the bolts for location, Wherever it hit i started to take material away.

Good news is that with the pics I have in my other thread, most people should be able to get this thing in there pretty quick.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

I remember reading your thread last year

Any long term updates? How does the car drive on the interstate?

Have you done any high speed driving in mexico????

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Jason, who are you referring to?

Mexico? I'm not Mexican...
I'm named after an Arc Angel...
The streets in Heaven are lined with... well, what ever you wish!
I think I'm actually closer to hell... I'm FL like you... HOT !!!

Long term goals? This is the tail end of finishing... after this steering box, I got 2 new headlight motors, getting an aluminum radiator and done... then I gotta finish up the inside, then paint... just got some new Mickey Thompson ST Radials, 235/60/15's for front, 245/60/15's for rear... there is a slight clunking I hear when you get on it, so after that...

Car rides great... done tons of mods... Hopefully get all this mechanical stuff done soon and most of the interior stuff over the holidaze... then PPG 9300 single stage urethane Triple Black

Rafael

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Since my thread was last year I assume me.

Car is great on the highway. Road Feel pretty good considering all the other slop in the front end. Which is why I ended up just buying ALL of the remaining stuff.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

that post was meant for thirdgen89gta

thanks for the feedback.

I plan to start tracking my car at the end of this year or the beginning of next. Steering box slop is what is keeping me from heading out now..... just seems to get worse the faster you drive

Rafael, I would drive up and help out. I've driven further to do less

no payment (other than food/drinks) required

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Jason, thanks for the gesture, but I will pass... I don't have a grinder, etc... And my schedule is packed with work at the moment...
The juice is arriving tomorrow though... if you're up in the area in a few weeks when it's done, test drive is fine (as long as I can get a ride in yours too

Rafael

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

My schedule is packed as well..... My next day off is weds.

I have a 4 inch grinder/cut off wheel so that wouldn't be an issue.

and of course a ride in my 'bird is always an option. Especially with the weather finally cooling off!

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Checking with mechanic to see if I can drop the car off Saturday morning for steering box install... ?!?!?!

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

The RedLine synthetic juice arrived this morning (sitting next to me) and the mechanic said I can drop off the car Saturday morning

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Dropped off the car Saturday morning... should have it back in a couple of days...

Test drove a friends 89 Iroc Z / z28 today... and the steering felt nothing like my current stock setup, his is stock... It felt good. So if mine feels even better than that, I will be very happy...

Hopefully good updates in a few days...

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

When I drive my fathers 92 z28, I wish my car would drive as nice as his does. The box is nice and precise. No slop at all.

Can't wait to hear your review of it.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

I wonder what's up with that... mine is a 91 Formula TPI 5 speed... It's supposed to have the quick ratio box in it too (I think)...

The IrocZ I drove has about 120k miles, mine about 155k... ??

Again, if mine felt like that Camaro's, I wouldn't be buying this steering box...
So for the price, it better feel better

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Not much to update... I called the mechanic to check today after lunch...
He said the steering is all in, but he's not finished with a few other things... his co helper has been sick the last 2 days... but will be ready Friday morning... I'm picking it up to take to another guy that works on rear ends (uh, cars that is )

Nice to know it all went in easily / well...

More then....

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Unfortunately, not impressed.... Overall better than what I had....
Dead spots seem to be gone, but feels nothing like the stock 89 Iroc box with 120k miles... It had 245's up front, mine 235...

At low speed, I wouldn't call them dead spots, cuz it was steering still, just not as smooth as high speed steering...

2 things... Steering pump is a couple years old, probably 200 miles on it though...
I know they sell higher pressure pumps which would help...
I do need an alignment... Scheduled for next Saturday...
I'll save final judgement then..

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I spent quite a bit of time with Lee and Turn One on the phone discussing these questions.

And both of them made a point to mention that its not pressure that you need, its FLOW.

As long as the box can provide about 1400psi you will have all the pressure you need. The turn one calibrated pumps are designed to have reduced pressure down low, and full pressure by about 1300rpm or so. Thats not engine RPM, thats pump RPM. I can't remember the ratio of the crank pulley vs PS pump pulley sizes, but that would let you convert that.

As long as the pump is supplying steady enough pressure at the required flow rates or better, then its functioning perfectly fine.

GNVAIR

If you guys are looking for an OEM source for the Delphi 670 steering boxes you should check out the 99-06 GM half ton 4 wheel drive trucks as they all used that exact steering box. I am not sure if there were any variations in steering ratio........maybe on the Silverado SS? or the Denali models with Quadrasteer?
The 99-06 2 wheel drives were rack and pinion. The 01-06 3/4 and 1 ton still used the old 800 box.
The 07-up half tons all used rack and pinion on 2 and 4 wheel drive.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

Well is the play gone at the center of the travel?

I'm curious as to how it feels at highway speed

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

It did feel better overall, and for sure at highway speeds...
But I want to get the alignment before final judgement...
I looked at advance and rock auto all they sell for pumps are reman, no new.
I did see new ones for $200 at jegs / summit...

Here is the steering wheel I'm dealing with... and currently instead of grips being at 9 and 3 they are at 11 and 5...

RBob

iTrader: (1)

For more flow there is an orifice in the P/S pump regulator valve that can be drilled larger. That valve can be R&R'd without disassembling the pump, it unscrews from the rear of the pump. It is the fitting that the high pressure hose connects to.

RBob.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Good Info RBob, thanks... I'll have a look

scooter

iTrader: (11)

This is a 600 series box, it is smaller than the 800 series box

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

As noted previously, someone stated more "flow", but I'm assuming would lower pressure...

I started diggin around and saw that they actually sell "restrictor" plugs that have a smaller hole than stock, which lowers flow.... and I assume heightens pressure...

I called PSC and they recommended not doing either... though he didn't explain why...

Alignment Saturday...

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

From Turn One...

Pressure vs. Flow



Fact or fiction? There are a lot of myths surrounding power steering and its functions. Most of these myths revolve around the power steering pressure and flow rate settings.In this article, we discuss power steering pressure and flow rate and their respective functions in the power steering system.

There are two distinct functions that the power steering pump is designed to perform. The first function is to deliver a constant flow rate to the power steering rack or box control valve. The flow rate will determine the sensitivity of the control valve when input is applied through the steering wheel. In conjunction with the control valve design, a given flow rate will result in a given steering feel and performance. Adjusting the flow rate is a fine tuning adjustment of the steering system and is not considered an all-inclusive adjustment.

The second function of the power steering pump is to provide enough pressure to assist the driver in overcoming steering load. The pump only builds pressure when it is required to by the steering rack or box control valve. The power steering pump’s maximum pressure should be set at a minimum of 200psi above the system operating pressures. For example, if the system’s requirements are a 1000psi, then the pump’s maximum pressure should be set at 1200psi or above.

Each system is unique and its requirements may be different. This is a generalization of the dynamics of the power steering system to help our customers further understand how the steering system operates. Tuning of your steering system is a delicate matter and should be done only under the guidance of a qualified technician. If you have any questions or need assistance, please feel free to contact our technical service department.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Not necessarily. The pressure regulator valve dumps any extra fluid to maintain the line pressure. Increase the flow and less fluid is dumped, maintaining the same pressure. It's been a long time but I had to open this orifice in a pump when I retro-fitted a '91 Trans Am steering box into that vehicle. Same as you, at lower RPM and speeds the feel got bulky.

The power assist was coming and going as the pump wouldn't supply enough flow to maintain the pressure in the box.

Be sure to mention that the steering wheel is off center. Sometimes they don't check for this. It is common after swapping a box or other parts for this to occur.

RBob.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Yes, the crooked steering wheel is the main reason...
I also pulled up the alignment sheet Goodyear gave me a couple months ago when alignment was done cuz of new strut mounts and found the Reid Flemming suggested front end settings here in Third gen...

My car had .04 toe in, which I'll have them increase to .09.
The camber was slightly positive, so I'll have them dial it in to -.5 to -.7.
My caster was 4.6 and 4.7... which I saw the factory specs for the later cars, and it was higher than the earlier cars (mine is a 91), so I'll stick with that (unless advised otherwise...) I think the negative camber will help the feel...

Rafael

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

That positive camber is a huge problem, makes the car wander a lot. My car has a degree of positive camber right now due to how high the suspension is in front from weight lost. The tires roll over really easy at higher angles, I can only assume this is because the already positive camber gets worse during cornering as the inside front suspension extends further.

Negative camber will help put more of the tire on the road during cornering. Our cars aren't that great with the camber curve anyways being struts.

I also thought are caster was pretty limited or had no adjustability with the stocks strut mounts. I know my new Founders mounts have caster adjustments built into them.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

I saw where the factory caster on early cars was 3 (I think), then a little higher, and about 4.7 or so for the later cars, the thing I saw on thirdgen. show 3 different sets for the 10 year span... I do have new moog factory replacement strut mounts (reason I had alignment a few months ago)...

I bought the unlimited for 3 years alignment special from GoodYear

Rafael

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Alignment done... steering wheel straight... they could not align to the specs I requested...

What I requested:
Caster 4.75
Camber -.75
Toe IN 0.09 (3/32)

What I got, tech said "maxed out", I did see the mounts are as close to the engine as it will go... (new Moog factory strut mounts I got a couple months ago)...

FL FR
0.0 -.5 Camber
4.3 4.8 Caster
0.05 0.04 Toe in

I'm looking at the Founders Strut Mounts to get to desired settings... Right now, all is stock height with EVERYTHING new pretty much...

So dead spots are gone, but doesn't feel as good as the 89 Iroc with 120k miles I drove a few weeks ago...

Steve Mack

iTrader: (5)

I have the AGR after market Steering box it is light years ahead of factory.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

how is it years ahead of the factory..

Steve Mack

iTrader: (5)

The steering response is much quicker.And the turn of the steering wheel lock to lock is half the factory's.But then again I have other non factory front end components such as 5 way adjustable coil over struts and other heavy duty parts.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

Those numbers look decent for a stock car.

I doubt changing your strut mounts will net you any more camber though. The hole the strut passes through is only so big....

Look at the adjustment slots in your current mounts and see if they are bottomed out of their travel towards the engine. Then look under in the wheel well at the strut and see how close the strut is to the body/hole it passes through.

Stupid question, but what size tires are you running?

How old are they?

I think i burned up my pinion bearing in the rearend racing yesterday, so this project will be on the back burner.... again. I still want to do it though

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

The stock replacements look like they are maxed out for camber. The aftermarket ones are supposed to allow for more adjustment. Tires are stock size - 235 60 15s, about 2 months old, Mickey Thompson Sportsman ST's.

obeymybird

iTrader: (4)

luvofjah that iroc you drove might have had the well lets just call it the 1LE box 10:1 which is road course ready and feels ''light years'' ahead of all others for the most part.

obeymybird

iTrader: (4)

Check it out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/82-92-Camaro...9Trxkh&vxp=mtr

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Yes, that's the 700 series, designed in the 1990s. It is newer than the stock 800 series that came in our cars, but I have the 600 series that's even newer, designed in the 2000's. And it cost almost twice what that 1 does. I looked into those AGR boxes, but people were reporting problems with them. It's not the ratio that's different, I understand that, just how it felt when you turned and drove. The alignment helped, and I think having the better specs with a newer camber/caster plates will help it a bit too. I am leaning towards it needing more flow, it seems not as smooth at lower speeds and lower rpms, the the dead spots I had with the stock 800 series box are gone.