MyRedCamaro

I know there are threads out there about this, however, since Lee is officially no longer in business, I am having a hard time here. I would like t use a 670 steering box, for several reasons. What I am wondering, is online I see some for sale for older camaros and Novas... Are these the same boxes that people are using for the third gen? Is there a specific 670 box I need? Any help would be nice!

Kennerz

Lee MFG. was the goto guy for these, now nobody mentions them. Turn-one now offers a 600/670 delphi box, I would look into them. They supposedly are the best in the business. I too would like some feedback on that box, just not many here have done that mod. On the pro-touring site more people have experience with that box. I'm really interested if it's worth the money to do this. oh I believe it's the 12:1 ratio box you would want.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

For $500 or so that they want for that box..... it better have rave reviews and be a go to replacement box before I can justify remotely spending that much on a box.

I really dislike my sloppy factory box, but at that price point I don't hate it *that* much

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Its the same thing just lighter, someone needs to figure out which vehicles came with the fast ratio 670 and we'd be set.

MyRedCamaro

I haven't read one bad thing about them. The price varies from 600 at pst (which is a standard 670) to about 1000 from sweet mfg (custom... Apparently they were selling the parts to lee) I am definitely going to spend the extra coin than spend a few hundred replacing something I won't be completely happy with, considering how far I've gone with the car. I will check out the one from turn one as well, thanks for the heads up. As far as what vehicles they came stock on, there are a few people the think late model 4wd gm rigs had them, specifically escalade, and there are others that say they have never come on production cars.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I have seen them on new vehicles in the junkyards, I just need to know which have the fast ratio.

Kennerz

The turn-one was arround $600 for the 12:7-1. Even if you find a junk yard box doesn't mean it's set up properly or not beat. Also going to need the right volume/pressure pump to get the most out of it. I believe DSE sells these as well. Supposed to have a rack and pinon style feel and accuracy. Just depends if it's worth the cost to get it in the car and set up right just to make it "Feel' good.The performance gain is really only in the improved steering fell/control. over a fresh reg. style box. Hope the value on these cars goes up a little cause it cost so much to build them right (not slap on junk aftermarket parts) especially in the smog states like CA that just want them off the road.
.

Hope someone dives in an buys one so they can report back.

Oh yeah, I hear some of those escalade 670's are like a 15 or 17:1 ratio so they may not all be the same. more homework needed there.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Subscribed...

I'm calling a few places tomorrow...
DSE sells the 600
Lares, PST and Turn One sell the 670

All priced around $600, Lares & PST lifetime warranty, I'll check on the other 2.

I have that my Honda steering is better than my Firebirds....
Everything else has been gone over....

MyRedCamaro

Awesome. Thanks for all your input guys. Almost all the information and threads I found on this were severely outdated. I am wondering the price jump from all these other dealers to sweet mfg who wants 1000 for theirs? I called them and couldn't seem to get a solid answer for it.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

I think Flaming River also has an expensive one...
I've not seen any complaints on the 670, except a few rebuilt/upgraded Lee ones...
I plan on buying one, just trying to get more info....

Rafael

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

My Question:

Hello, I have a 91 Pontiac Firebird and am looking to upgrade my steering box. What is the warranty on your unit? I see most have 4 mounting tabs, 1 will need to be ground down to work on my car, will that affect the warranty? Plan to use stock pressure pump, is that ok? Any other parts needed? I would prefer the 12:1 ratio... Any more info on this would be appreciated, Thanks! Rafael

Turn One Response this morning...

Thank you for your interest in our products! We do not have a written warranty on any of our products. We stand behind our products 100%, if the unit fails for some reason due to our workmanship, we will repair/replace it at no charge.

Removing one foot on the steering box to fit into your application can be done before it is assembled for an additional $100. I would recommend the ceramic coated housing for a nice, durable finish.

The stock pump will work fine with our steering box. Everything else will bolt right up to the box as well.

I do need to make you aware that currently, our steering boxes are on backorder due to the nationwide housing shortage. All orders placed will be filled as soon as housings are available from Nexteer (formerly Delphi/Saginaw Steering).

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

that is a positive response

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

PST response:

We only offer steering boxes on the Firebirds up to 1981.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

When did Lee's go out of business? I swear I just talked to them not that long ago.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

I was going to use these guys if I ever break down and order one for my 'bird

http://www.pro-touringf-body.com/cha...omponents.html

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

That last place seems to be out of stock too...

Spoke with Lares.... also out of stock... expecting in a couple of months...
Said "eventually, will be sold through Rock Auto too with a bit of a discount"...

Still awaiting DSE...

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Seems NO ONE has these cases in stock (let's start a forgery!

DSE Response...

Good morning sir, hope your Tuesday is going well. The 600 steering gear is a quick ratio 12:7:1 which is 2.5 turns lock-to-lock. Currently, we have not had a third gen F-body in the shop to test fit a 600 gear in the vehicle, I have heard there will need be a slight modification for fitment but not yet tested. The 600 steering gears are on a current backorder at this time and no certain ETA far as when they will be available again. If I had to estimate it would most likely be late October-early November before they will be available again which also applies to the 670 gear box as well. The 670 box is similar and comes in few different ratios, while it is similar the 600 has different internals. If you are looking for a box sooner, the steering gears that came on the IROC-Z Camaros were a quick ratio and would be a good upgrade as well.

___________________________________________

If I'm spending the loot to upgrade, I think I would prefer to go with the more modern 670 vs 600... i think...

Let me know if anyone finds them in stock... can't get this car finished without part!

peterc005

I wrote a long post on these steering boxes a while ago.

The Saginaw/Delphi boxes have been used across many brands and models for 50 years.

The best option seems to be variable ratio boxes from late model cars. Maybe look at Nissan Patrols, Jeeps etc.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Throw up a link...
What makes the ratio variable, another input?

Thanks!

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I would almost bet that they are variable effort, not ratio, due to line psi.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

My brain hurts...

PST said, "if you alter the case" uh, grind off the 4th mounting tab, your warranty is void...
Turn one said, for $100 they would do it!

I think I read that the 92.5 to 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee's use this 600 series box...
I see some pics and it looks like it only has 3 tabs... $100 to $200 Rock Auto, all rebuilt...

I did send an email to CPP and Flaming River..... I did hear some bad reviews about CPP, we'll see what they got....

Rafael

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

These Jeep boxes, the more I read, direct bolt in, 3 bolts (no 4th to worry about).

The Cardone one @ rock Auto $200.
3 year warranty...
AC Delco one @ rock auto id $209.
Lifetime warranty...

Both include a $100 core charge, of which I got none...

I'm leaning towards the Delco for the warranty... I'm not sure I'll notice a $400 to $600 difference as price would be paid if any of the other companies had them in stock...

I've read a lot of happy people with the Jeep boxes... It's the quick 12 or 12.7: ratio...

I'll see what unfolds in the next few days and pull the trigger...

MyRedCamaro

wow thank you for all the information! Sweet mfg DOES currently have them for 950. Sounds like a lot compared to 600, however they are zinc/ceramic coated already, no need for mounting mods, and come with lines and fittings. So when I think about it, it's not far off value wise. They also custom valve them for you. If you are not happy with the way it steers, you can send it back and they will change the valving free. I'll probably go this route for the sake of having a car I can steer again, I also have no brakes because it's a hydroboost now. So I can't even roll the thing out of my shop until I have one! My sign in that I use is myorangecamaro. Had to use this one because I had forgotten the password. That's what happens when you paint a car.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

That's more coin than I want to invest... Mind you, I've got over $40k already invested...
I'm good with the $200 bolt in... I'm sure yours will look better for $950, but I don't think I'll feel $750 worth of difference... I still need some new glass and paint to before updating my grand total ?!?!?

Still doing a bit more research...

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Question for anyone reading with more info than me...

Jeep box users of older cars than 3rd gens state:
Metric Input shaft Ragjoint & Metric O-ring lines.

Do thirdgens use metric or SAE ?

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I think everything was standard up to 84ish. 85ish-92 metric stuff.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Cool 91

I checked on Advance Auto (locally) and when I went to check out, it said Limited Lifetime warranty on the Cardone one... so leaning that route... I got discount codes and can turn in my core (not pay to ship it back) so total price would be $130ish....

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Alright... more info... none of this has been spelled out, just from research and seeing pics...

The Jeep 93-98 box is a 700 series.... It is an upgrade to our 800 box.
But better yet, is the 600 / 670 boxes...
These seem to be in 2002 and newer vehicles...
Which has the proper 12.7:1 ratio / stops ???

So due to that matter, it looks like I will wait and buy a 600/670 from someone as soon as some cases are acquired....

It does show the Jeep box has 3 mounting tabs, the 600 have 4, so you will need to grind one down to fit 3rd gen...

I did read the reman 600/670 from autoparts store (for $150-$250) are for daily driver's, not sport... 1 guy who autocrossed went through 3 in a year... bought a premium one $500+ ones and has been using for 2 years no problems...

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

What is used in the trailblazer SS ? NM, saw its a r&p

blacksunshine'91

iTrader: (10)

Is this worth looking into at all?

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/ca...ck-pinion-kit/

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

That rack and pinion requires an aftermarket K member... and the luck I've had with Spohn, not spending another cent there....

The reman / new boxes Hawks sell are 700 series....

It's a shame that EVERY company is on hold because no one has any 600/670 cases....

Raf

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

So glad I got my 670 box when I did then. I love it.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

So, Thirdgen89GTA, exactly where do you live ??? Jk...
Tell us about it, Lee box or another, any dead spots, custom valved, etc...
How's it feel... ??

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

I've done some reading too

http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...swap-body.html

apparently the cherokee guys upgrade to a dodge durango steering box???

http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f51/dur...-upgrade-3805/

and a little endorsement from a familiar name, but look at who their 'source' is.......

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/chassis...ring-box-swap/

and then some other random readings.....

http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/9...e-Steering-Box

http://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/...ap-w-pics.html

http://www.indianachevelles.com/inde...ering-box-swap

http://jimshea.corvettefaq.com/wp-co...ed15AP2012.pdf

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Out of stock...

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

I talked to Kyle & Stacy Tucker (owners of DSE) on Sunday @ Road America about this. They just rolled their eyes . Stacy said she calls every other day - on National back-order.
Up here in WI, I can wait til March

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Been in touch with all the companies... Still NO ONE has any cases...

Turn One got some used cases in they needed to check (would sell for a discount), but wanted to charge $100 to "grind the 1 mounting tab off"...

Ran across PSC, called them up...
New 600 style case & internals.
12:1 ratio.
Normally valved @ 210, I opted for lighter 190 since I have a KR (heavier) steering wheel & a 5 speed...
Are going to put in the factory stops so tires won't rub on inside of fender...
No rag joint (I have the astro shaft)
Metric fitting to fit & use my stock 91 pump...
Stated the 4th tab would not interfere (if it does, grinder!)
1 year warranty (if / when it breaks in that time, they ship out immediately, not waiting for you to ship back first)
They can change the valving & rebuild for little $$$

I think he mumbled $623 or so (charge hasn't happened yet...)

Ships out before the day is through.... & they have more in stock...

I'll update once it's installed...

http://www.pscmotorsports.com/vehicl...ering-kit.html

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

that sounds promising.....

I found this link too..... turn one seems to be selling them

http://scandc.com/new/node/973

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Turn One has no new cases... did get some used... This was an update from them 2 days ago...

"Been in touch with all the companies... Still NO ONE has any cases...

Turn One got some used cases in they needed to check (would sell for a discount), but wanted to charge $100 to "grind the 1 mounting tab off"... "

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Oh... PSC mentioned

"Authentic Saginaw / Delphi 600 case made in US, not cheaper / made in China used in the reman ones"...

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

Durrrrr, I need to read stuff a bit more thoroughly....

I see chassisworks is offering something too

https://www.cachassisworks.com/p-110...r-1271-ra.aspx

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

I got mine from SC&C, who actually got their boxes from Lee.. I need to send mine in to get it repaired since it was never quite right .. Sucks they went out of business.. Now what? lol

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Reply from Chris Alston... In stock ???

"We do not. I don't know when we'll have more."

Kennerz

PSC has a good reputation for doing quality work at fair prices. Some of the 4thgen autocross guys use them as an alternative to turn-one (Usually a little cheaper) Turn-one is still top of the food chain though. Luvofjah -Thank You for Keeping us updated..

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

I was close to getting a (used) one from Turn One, but found new ones with PSC... Both use the same new Saginaw case (when they have it), not sure about internal parts... I don't think every company is making their own, but there may be more than one company that does... I do see some companies use a billet cap on one end (neither PSC nor Turn One do).... PSC was very upfront about warranty and all the options (stops, which I hadn't thought of, changing valving, etc...) and Turn One didn't state a specific warranty (when asked).... Not stating PSC is better, I see Turn One has their roots in this business... just stating my experience... and since I'm trying to get the car done, PSC had it in stock... should ship today... Had Turn One contacted me with a ready to go product, I would of gone that route... I think (uh, hope) I will be happy regardless... results as they happen...

Rafael

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I spent probably about 45 minutes with Lee across a few phone calls discussing what I wanted. If I were to do it again, I'd probably go with a quicker ratio still over the 12.7:1 I have. I've really gotten used to the fast steering in my Focus ST which is variable from 13.7:1 to 10:1 at the extreme ends.

The box was built with 12.7:1 ratio, and a 35lb spool valve for decreased assistance.

This has been problematic because my pump went out, I no longer have any assistance. And with my wider 17x9 tires, and the increased scrub radius due to the C5 brake upgrade, and wheel spacers it makes the car a real bear to deal with at parking lot speeds. Anything below 5mph requires two hands on the wheel and shoulders to get the wheel to move.

My LT1 swap uses the Variable assist LT1 PS pump, but without anything connected it runs at full assist all the time. If I could find a way to retrofit all the nessesary sensors into the steering column, I'd probably incorporate it. Would be awesome to have all of the assist at parking lot speeds, but gain back all the feels with less assist at speed.

As far as the mounting of a 670 pump, I had to do some work. Rather than grind the ear off the pump, I clearanced the frame rail, it only needed some minor adjustment. But one of the ears on the frame rail braces needed clearancing as well for the box to mount correctly. So I ended up filing away some of the casting flash there.

Most everything including pics can be found in this thread: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...-vs-stock.html

Kennerz

Thirdgen89GTA - when the pump was working how was it? sounds like you had a mismatched set up between the pump and the box. I thought the normal valving was like a 235?

I guess what I'm saying is it a fair assessment? Would you buy the box again? and is it the box or Lee that is defective or neither. Inquiring minds want to know, this could be the mod to get the steering feeling "right" that we've all been waiting for, so that's why the 1000 questions.. Thanks for being the 1st to make the plunge on the purchase.

BTW- I've driven a Focus ST & yeah the steering is really pretty good (The whole car is surprising for what it is)

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Lee is the one who provided both the gear, the options, and rebuilt my LT1 pump to match the what the gear wanted.

I told him I wanted a little less assistance for more road feel and he suggested the 35lb valve. I don't think he intended for 0 assistance. When I spoke to him before the shop closed down (what a surprise that was) he had suggested that the bypass valve in the PS pump had become stuck in full bypass position, preventing it from generating any pressure at the gear. And this is sort of supported by the fact that after a good cruise, you can hear the power steering pump begin to whine. I have purchased a new LT1 PS pump and once I swap it out, if that fixes the issue I'll send the pump to turn one for a full rebuild, AGAIN. I would send it back to lee, but they are out of business. Which is horrible.

My old box had about 15-20 degrees of slop on center, so it was impossible to feel anything. great. Except it identified every last bit of slop in the factory stuff remaining. So I have and entire new front end to go onto the car + a astrovan shaft swap. Centerlink, idler, inner/outer tie-rods, ball joints, founders strut mounts, sway bar bushings, globalwest del-a-lum bushings. Until all of that slop is gone, its really hard to say how good it is. I've also lost enough weight up front that I now have either 0° or 1° positive camber up front. The lowering springs, and .5" extended ball joints will help fix that.

As for the Focus ST? I never thought I'd say I love a Focus. I love a Focus ST so much, I'm trading up to a Focus RS. The Focus ST is like a normal Focus, but turned up to 10. Then the RS is like Spinal Tap and goes to 11. The ST is already a joy to put on the track. Not much legs on the straights, but it brakes, and turns awesome. It can't touch the likes of even a LS1 F-body in the big straights, but comes the corners the fight is on. Its like a eager little jack russell terrier.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Well... was told it would ship same day (last Wednesday) that didn't happen...
I called Friday cuz I hadn't heard anything, sales guy was surprised it hadn't shipped yet... so he checked... Supposedly didn't have correct torsion bar, so his machinist had to make one, "it will for sure go out Monday".... and it didn't... But it did ship today...

$662 with shipping, no rag joint (I got an Astro Shaft and upgraded bearing).
Invoice noted 12:1, factory stops and lighter 190 (instead of 210) torsion bar...

Arrives Friday... Will be a few weeks til I get it in and report back...

Rafael