TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
#101
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Okay, now the plenum really has me scratching my head. I just don't see how you're going to make this a one piece plenum. Guess I'll just have to wait and see.
#102
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Talk about thinking out of the box! I can see this working for a high revving motor.
#104
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
My coworker has the hood up on a Honda Accord with the V-TEC V6. It has a plenum like that. It would work. Something about the dual plenums with dual throttle bodies though, it just looks so tough.
#105
Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
It is going to be a two piece plenum with the floor being one part of the plenum. The sides and roof will be the rest of the plenum. I need to do this in order to have room get the distributor in and also get the injectors/rails installed without having to remove the valve covers.
There will be bolts coming through the roof of the plenum and bolting to the floor piece like on the Holley Stealth Ram. There will also be stanchions with the bolt holes in the middle to prevent over tightening of the bolts.
"Talk about thinking out of the box!"
It has taken me years of thinking how to do this without breaking the bank. In fact I had given up until I saw some extruded aluminum runners designed for the LS3 motor. Then the light bulb went off and back to the drawing board. The biggest challenge was how do I build the runners on a shoe string budget. The aluminum runner extrusions allowed me to do this.
The project is evolving as I build it. The EV6 injectors being a case in point. Believe it or not but it should have good mid-range torque. I am planning on peak horsepower occurring in the 6500-6600rpm range and shifting by 6800rpm.
There will be bolts coming through the roof of the plenum and bolting to the floor piece like on the Holley Stealth Ram. There will also be stanchions with the bolt holes in the middle to prevent over tightening of the bolts.
"Talk about thinking out of the box!"
It has taken me years of thinking how to do this without breaking the bank. In fact I had given up until I saw some extruded aluminum runners designed for the LS3 motor. Then the light bulb went off and back to the drawing board. The biggest challenge was how do I build the runners on a shoe string budget. The aluminum runner extrusions allowed me to do this.
The project is evolving as I build it. The EV6 injectors being a case in point. Believe it or not but it should have good mid-range torque. I am planning on peak horsepower occurring in the 6500-6600rpm range and shifting by 6800rpm.
#106
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Hats off to you man!
Last edited by ASE doc; 06-15-2012 at 02:58 PM.
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
I like where you are going with this, I was thinking of something similar, but as I started to model it, I just didn't like the way mine was starting to look. so I decided to model one after the RAMJET 502 intake. I am very happy with the injector angle now, points right at the valve. I am still working on the drawings for having the straight portion of the runners made on a CNC forming machine. I haven't decided yet if I will bell the runners or blend them into the plenum. I don't have to pass emissions but I had also thought about adding EGR from the crossover. Like you said, plenty of room.
#108
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Resubscribing.
#109
Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Probably should post an update. The runners are being welded onto the base. I should be picking it back up from the welder this afternoon and do some blending of the runners to the base. So things are progressing. Should start on the plenum based next week as the material for that is on the way.
#110
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Thanks for the update. I didn't mean to drop my subscription. This is my favorite thread as I love watching your progress on these experimental intakes. I am just constantly picking up new threads as I try to help members diagnose their cars. Then I delete these threads once the car is fixed or if I feel that my input is not helpful. I must have accidentally deleted this thread and only realized it last week. I am excited to see the finished product and your results.
#111
Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
An update with a couple of pictures. One showing the location of the EGR valve and another looking down one of the runners that is closest to completion. The other runners need to go back to the welder one more time for some inside welding at the "joint". Next up will be the start of the plenum.
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
You are out of your mind
I love it lol
How will you get this past visual? I see the base is "stock" and EGR but the rest or are we talking grey area here
Keep up the good work!
I love it lol
How will you get this past visual? I see the base is "stock" and EGR but the rest or are we talking grey area here
Keep up the good work!
#113
Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Certifiably crazy. Hahaha.
Anyways the plenum will look very similiar to the Super Ram plenum. The plan is when I get the plenum done we will test it on a 383 that just put down around 580hp on the engine dyno at Westech.
At that time I will not have it totally completed but enough to run it. If it does well I will finish it off and try to pass it off as a Super Ram for smog purposes.
Anyways the plenum will look very similiar to the Super Ram plenum. The plan is when I get the plenum done we will test it on a 383 that just put down around 580hp on the engine dyno at Westech.
At that time I will not have it totally completed but enough to run it. If it does well I will finish it off and try to pass it off as a Super Ram for smog purposes.
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
That is awesome I wanna see it!!
Bet it will make plenty of power along with gobs of torque
Tell us about whats in the 580hp 383 sounds like fun
Bet it will make plenty of power along with gobs of torque
Tell us about whats in the 580hp 383 sounds like fun
#116
Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
The 383 has my old AFR 195 Competition heads with a mega porting job by Dr J. It was also using a heavily ported Edelbrock dual plane intake. The cam was something like 242 @ .050" on the intake and around .600" lift. 11:1 compression. Maybe Pat will chime in as it is his motor we will be using.
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Wow, just wow!
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
This intake will not be ready for dyno day. Version 2 of my long tube runner project will hopefully be installed and ready for testing. If all goes according to plan I will slip this intake on if anyone gets to close to my club record. Gots to have something in reserve.
The 383 has my old AFR 195 Competition heads with a mega porting job by Dr J. It was also using a heavily ported Edelbrock dual plane intake. The cam was something like 242 @ .050" on the intake and around .600" lift. 11:1 compression. Maybe Pat will chime in as it is his motor we will be using.
The 383 has my old AFR 195 Competition heads with a mega porting job by Dr J. It was also using a heavily ported Edelbrock dual plane intake. The cam was something like 242 @ .050" on the intake and around .600" lift. 11:1 compression. Maybe Pat will chime in as it is his motor we will be using.
Pretty much a run of the mill 383 only with Allen's ported heads ( the runners poured 220 after porting) and the Dr. J's Air Gap RPM intake. Mike Saiki speced out the ISKY Hyd. roller cam. 244 @ .050 intake--246 @ .050" exhaust. 113 LC. Lift is right at .595" on both with the 1.6 rockers.
The chambers came in at 61cc. The flat top pistons are about .007 in the hole. I used Dyno Don's super secret .028" GM head gaskets. The carb was a Holly 4150 that flowed at about 1050CFM.
Peak HP was around 6500 rpm. Torque peak was at about 4800rpm.
We are gonna try to get this engine on the dyno with the "Cross Ram" installed before the end of this summer! We will start with regular 91 octane pump gasoline, then we can try some 100 octane unleaded, just for a comparison.
#119
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
WOW!! Those runners look great!
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
add 1 more WOW! to the list.
i would like to see a picture showing the whole base from the front, top & side,.. please
i would like to see a picture showing the whole base from the front, top & side,.. please
#121
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Pretty much a run of the mill 383 only with Allen's ported heads ( the runners poured 220 after porting) and the Dr. J's Air Gap RPM intake. Mike Saiki speced out the ISKY Hyd. roller cam. 244 @ .050 intake--246 @ .050" exhaust. 113 LC. Lift is right at .595" on both with the 1.6 rockers.
The chambers came in at 61cc. The flat top pistons are about .007 in the hole. I used Dyno Don's super secret .028" GM head gaskets. The carb was a Holly 4150 that flowed at about 1050CFM.
Peak HP was around 6500 rpm. Torque peak was at about 4800rpm.
We are gonna try to get this engine on the dyno with the "Cross Ram" installed before the end of this summer! We will start with regular 91 octane pump gasoline, then we can try some 100 octane unleaded, just for a comparison.
The chambers came in at 61cc. The flat top pistons are about .007 in the hole. I used Dyno Don's super secret .028" GM head gaskets. The carb was a Holly 4150 that flowed at about 1050CFM.
Peak HP was around 6500 rpm. Torque peak was at about 4800rpm.
We are gonna try to get this engine on the dyno with the "Cross Ram" installed before the end of this summer! We will start with regular 91 octane pump gasoline, then we can try some 100 octane unleaded, just for a comparison.
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Peak HP was around 6500 rpm. Torque peak was at about 4800rpm.
I have a 10cc larger head 260@.050 solid ported single plane wonder if Im even making those # if so probably at higher rpm. Thought about the new 220s...and maybe a smaller HR. I am addicted to the solids but the thought of long road trips, may have to make the switch. Goes to show with the right head you can run less cam and make huge power.
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Would I try to run this thing in my street car with the 3.31 rear, 2200 stall weighing 3700# that runs at 180 degrees??? Heck no! We are just using this 383 as a mule for all of the "Insane Guy's" (Allen) cam and intake tests. It's a whole lot easier than taking it in and out of his 89 Trans Am
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
You got my attention now those are OUTstanding #s considering whats in there wow.
I have a 10cc larger head 260@.050 solid ported single plane wonder if Im even making those # if so probably at higher rpm. Thought about the new 220s...and maybe a smaller HR. I am addicted to the solids but the thought of long road trips, may have to make the switch. Goes to show with the right head you can run less cam and make huge power.
I have a 10cc larger head 260@.050 solid ported single plane wonder if Im even making those # if so probably at higher rpm. Thought about the new 220s...and maybe a smaller HR. I am addicted to the solids but the thought of long road trips, may have to make the switch. Goes to show with the right head you can run less cam and make huge power.
I'm thinking I'll lose 20 or so HP by lowering the CR from 11.5 to 10.5???
Not too bad for me but for some folks, that would be totally unacceptable!
Take care..
#125
Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
I will see what I can do. Right now I am going back and forth from the welders. At this point in time I am not too concerned about the looks on the outside but the function. If it works well then I will "dress" up the outside.
#126
Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
I have the TPI Cross Ram back from the welder with the lower plenum plate in place. No grinding has been done yet. Here are six pictures in two posts. The plenum will be two inches wider on each side than the base plate. The for and aft dimensions of the plenum will be close as to what the base plate dimensions are. The width of the base plate as shown is about 10". The width of the plenum will be 14 inches.
Last edited by 1989GTATransAm; 07-07-2012 at 07:54 PM.
#128
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Hey Allen, have thought about ditching the old computer system and going with EFIConnections 24x's LS1pcm conversion? Seems like it would be better to control the engine with all these radical mods you have
#129
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
thanks, its looking really good
man the distributor cap is close, are you sure your going to be able to fit the plenum on?
if your motor can't get enough air with that, then its forced induction time
man the distributor cap is close, are you sure your going to be able to fit the plenum on?
if your motor can't get enough air with that, then its forced induction time
#130
Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
I need to grind maybe .060" off the back of the plenum plate where the distributor goes. That area will get machined smoothed and there will be about .250" of surface for a gasket. If need be I can mill into the runner another .060" for more room. The runner is .125" thick at that point.
#131
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Haven't checked on this in awhile, looking great!!
Have you seen this thread??
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...ml#post5337043
Have you seen this thread??
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...ml#post5337043
#132
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
WOW! and again WOW! That is really looking great. I see now how you worked out the transitions and now of course I see where you're going with the plenum. Would like to see a photo or two inside the runners. Where is John Lingenfelter these days? He could have used your help when he designed the original Superram. How is your vertical clearance going to be? Will it clear your strut tower brace?
#134
Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
WOW! and again WOW! That is really looking great. I see now how you worked out the transitions and now of course I see where you're going with the plenum. Would like to see a photo or two inside the runners. Where is John Lingenfelter these days? He could have used your help when he designed the original Superram. How is your vertical clearance going to be? Will it clear your strut tower brace?
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
That is friggin awesome.
You must be paying for that vacation with all that welding lol, small fortune wrapped up in that intake! Will be one of a kind though.
Anxious to see how the plenum winds up to feed those runners they can move a whole lot of air through there. How tall do you think it might come out?
You must be paying for that vacation with all that welding lol, small fortune wrapped up in that intake! Will be one of a kind though.
Anxious to see how the plenum winds up to feed those runners they can move a whole lot of air through there. How tall do you think it might come out?
#136
Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
"Anxious to see how the plenum winds up to feed those runners they can move a whole lot of air through there. How tall do you think it might come out?"
Right now I am going for 9.250 total height at the rear of the plenum top from the bottom of the manifold "china wall". It will start slope down to the front at 8.750" where the throttle body bolts on. The slope will resemble the factory plenum. The inside height of the plenum will be 3.50" in the middle sections and 3.375" on the outer sections. You will see what I am talking about as we proceed with the build.
As to the plenum feeding the runners that is my major concern and why this will only be a basic functional build until I see how it does on the engine dyno. If it works than I will finish it off. If it does not work as planned than that will be the end of it.
I have been toying with the idea of putting a small verticle 1/4 circle vane between the two pairs of runners going towards the center. One on each side. This would direct air from the center to the sides of the plenum. I can always add those in later if need be. So yes feeding the runners is the main concern.
Right now I am going for 9.250 total height at the rear of the plenum top from the bottom of the manifold "china wall". It will start slope down to the front at 8.750" where the throttle body bolts on. The slope will resemble the factory plenum. The inside height of the plenum will be 3.50" in the middle sections and 3.375" on the outer sections. You will see what I am talking about as we proceed with the build.
As to the plenum feeding the runners that is my major concern and why this will only be a basic functional build until I see how it does on the engine dyno. If it works than I will finish it off. If it does not work as planned than that will be the end of it.
I have been toying with the idea of putting a small verticle 1/4 circle vane between the two pairs of runners going towards the center. One on each side. This would direct air from the center to the sides of the plenum. I can always add those in later if need be. So yes feeding the runners is the main concern.
#137
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Those left rear runner entries are very close to where the plenum walls will be, especially at the very back. I wonder what the effect would be of cutting the runner entries at a more horizontal angle. Would that create turbulence? It would certainly create more space around the runner entries.
#138
Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Those left rear runner entries are very close to where the plenum walls will be, especially at the very back. I wonder what the effect would be of cutting the runner entries at a more horizontal angle. Would that create turbulence? It would certainly create more space around the runner entries.
#140
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Possibly. The one thing in favor of the rear runners is that the air wants to collect in the back from the momentum of shooting through the throttle body. I will just run it on the dyno as is and see what happens. Then go form there depending on what happens. I think the dyno shop has O2 sensors for all 8 cylinders. Should be able to tell something from that.
#141
Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Here is an update showing how wide the plenum is going to be. The two clamped pieces on either side are part of the plenum floor. The other pieces not shown will follow the outline that is already there and attached to the base. There is plenty of room on the outside and I have made the plenum 3 3/8" deep.
We have made the bottom and sides of the plenum. However it will be another week before the welder gets back off vacation so things are pretty much at a standstill until he gets back.
We have made the bottom and sides of the plenum. However it will be another week before the welder gets back off vacation so things are pretty much at a standstill until he gets back.
Last edited by 1989GTATransAm; 08-03-2012 at 07:13 PM.
#142
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Here's what you're all looking for: You want it and you know it!
#145
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Okay. Now I see how this is going. You already resolved my concerns about the rear runner entries being too close to the plenum wall. Very good stuff. I expect excellent results with this intake.
Then again, watajob's idea is really neat! Where can I get one? And to think I've wasted all this time on EFI. LOL!
Then again, watajob's idea is really neat! Where can I get one? And to think I've wasted all this time on EFI. LOL!
#146
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Originally Posted by 1989GTATransAm
Progress update. The welder is back off vacation so the construction of the plenum has begun. Here is a progress picture.
#147
Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
Sheet metal looks kinda thin on the bottom. Although I am sure you should already know this, but remember to weld in supporting columns in the center area on the lower sheet metal, drill holes in the same area on the top cover to expose them, then weld them to the top to reinforce. I remember someone I know making what they call the "pizza box" for the V6 guys, and the thing would collapse downward from the suction because it had no support in the center...
#148
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
the problem i see.. is the throttle body sitting right in front that first runner section.. the incoming air is going to slam against it.. then the air is going to have to zigzag around to make it into the ports.. and the farthest runners all the way in the back..
i think this is why most manufactures use a flat deck.. OR if they use a trumpet or runner design like yours.. the runners are all in a line, with a clear straight path for the air to get in..
i think this is why most manufactures use a flat deck.. OR if they use a trumpet or runner design like yours.. the runners are all in a line, with a clear straight path for the air to get in..
#149
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
the problem i see.. is the throttle body sitting right in front that first runner section.. the incoming air is going to slam against it.. then the air is going to have to zigzag around to make it into the ports.. and the farthest runners all the way in the back..
i think this is why most manufactures use a flat deck.. OR if they use a trumpet or runner design like yours.. the runners are all in a line, with a clear straight path for the air to get in..
i think this is why most manufactures use a flat deck.. OR if they use a trumpet or runner design like yours.. the runners are all in a line, with a clear straight path for the air to get in..
#150
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Re: TPI Cross Ram Construction Thread
We haven't yet seen the entire plenum, or where the TB will be mounted. I expect that there will be ample clearance behind the TB to allow for free movement of the air to the outside where the runner entries reside. Turbulence is an issue with any intake design. It will be interesting to see what role it plays here. Using the 1200CFM monoblade TB should reduce velocity at the throttle so that it won't be such a problem.