89IrocZ350TPI

I am looking for an extra 15 horses so I have decided to invest in some 1.6 rocker arms. However I do not want to spend much over 100 dollars. I have found some on jegs for around 90. Are these decent or will I regret not buying some from crane or comp. thx



http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/20182/10002/-1

transplant

Man for a little bit more money you can have these http://store.summitracing.com/partde...6&autoview=sku
I have had these on my street/strip engine for over a year with no problems.

vorticaldavid

iTrader: (1)

i thought since we have the center-bolt valve covers(87+ heads) we need self-aligning rocker arms. also i've read on this site numerous times to stay away from stamped rockers due to some flex and inconsistent ratios. i am lookin into gettin some myself and i am just gona get the comp cams magnum roller tip rockers...

paulo57509

I have an '87 with center bolt valve covers and they don't have self-aligning rockers.

My heads are date coded Oct-86 so I might have a goofy interim set-up.

tony_cogliandro

iTrader: (3)

what if you are using 601 non center bolt heads. i understand that i dont need self aligning ones. and i was told to only use the 1.6 on the intakes and with my z44 cam i would be hitting in the low 5's for intake and exhaust.

Shadygrady

iTrader: (3)

Remember,you may need to machine the heads to get the 1.6 rr`s to fit.Some people need to others dont.Go with the full rollers and not the stamped steel ones.I`m running non self aligning but my heads are set up for guide plates.

89IrocZ350TPI

Thats no problem/ What brand do you suggest?

Heslekrants

If you want to use your stock valve covers go with the roller tip. I would pass on the alum rockers & go with the SS if you want full roller rockers.

The 1.6 rockers are great power booster for cheap money, kinda like putting in a "bigger" cam in about 1hr.

I had the 1.6 roller tips in my 99 Burb for 70k miles & loved the extra power. My son has them in the 350 Vortec we put in his 90 Camaro.

I'm using the SS 1.6 full roller rockers in my 383 stroker motor.

89IrocZ350TPI

i dont have the stock valve covers anyways. i dont want to spend more than 150 on them, and i was told its a 2-3 hour job.

383roller

I would buy a nice set like some Harland Sharps, most engine builders i know like them even Jegs and Summit tech said they were the best they offer. On my old stroker i ran Erson which are nice, but after a while on cheaper rocker arms the bearing in the roller tip will go out and freeze wearing a flat spot on the roller causing it not to turn.

Heslekrants

If your valve covers are easy to get off & you have somebody cranking the motor for you it shouldn't take more 1 hr. Time adds up quickly if the gaskets need replacing or if brackets are in the way of the valve covers. I can see it taking 2-3 hrs then.

Keep in mind you get what you pay for. Quality cost.

I ran Erson rockers once many years ago & they were crap.

bart91406

I would go with the harland Sharp, they are a little more expensive, but not as expensive as some of the steel roller rockers. The aluminum Harland Sharps have been made for years and are trusted by many engine builders, so they seem to me to be a safe, yet budget friendly choice.

bgood71

I talked to friend at a machine shop and he said that roller tip rockers don't give and performance gains that they were basicly a waste of money. He suggested full roller rockers, and that even using the stock 1.5 ratio full rollers would help the engine rev better. If looking for budget rockers, Summit has full roller self aligning rockers for around $225, part # sum-g6936-16(1.6 ratio), check em out.

Heslekrants

The performance gains going from 1.5 stock to 1.6 roller tip are real. I've installed these on 2 of my 5.7 Vortec motors with no machining and no issues.

At 150K miles on my 99 Burb I installed the 1.6 roller tip rockers & it felt like I rebuilt the engine. I pulled the motor at 225K miles to install my 383 stroker motor and the rocker arms were in perfect condition after 75k miles of use.

Before buying those Summit roller rockers you should find out who makes them. Some of the Summit branded stuff is crap. I know 1st hand about the soft metal thier cams are made from.

On a budget I totally recommend those 1.6 roller tip rockers.

89IrocZ350TPI

Can you explain to me what "full roller rockers" means opposed to ones that are not, and why would self aligning rockers yeild better gains? $225 is the most I am wiling to spend.

89IrocZ350TPI

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...Ns=&rsview=sku


heres a link. i am trying to decide but there are so many choices

89RsPower!

FWIW I ran a set of stamped roller tipped rockers like the ones from jegs you posted in your first post, they were fine until one of the pins that held the roller on the tip fell out. It didn't cause any serious damage, just a little mark on the inside of my valve cover, a bad misfire, and a pain in my *** to tare it apart to fix. Luckily I found the pin in the bottom of my oil pan, but I had to jack the engine up to pull the pan. I went back to a set of factory rocker arms and havn't had a problem since. I may have just been unlucky, it was only a single rocker arm that failed, but I'd suggest investing in a quality set of rocker arms if you want full roller or roller tipped rockers, if the difference is only $50 don't cheap out.

bart91406

I am guessing that you must use self aligning rocker arms, and I do not have much knowledge of those.

I have used, and know other people that have used Proform products with all good results, they might have the quality you need at a price you can afford. I have also used lots of summit branded parts with good results.

89RsPower!

Full roller means that they are infact full roller and not just a roller tip. A full roller rocker has a roller bearing at the pivot point where it bolts to the stud on the head. A roller tipped rocker simply has a roller at the tip where it contacts the valve stem.

Here is an exmaple of a roller TIPPED rocker:
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/20182/10002/-1

Here is an example of a FULL roller rocker
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...6&autoview=sku

See how the second one is different?

Heslekrants

Self aligning rockers are required if your heads don't have pushrod guide plates

Non self aligning rockers are required if your heads do have pushrod guide plates

Some rockers just have roller tips on the end. Look cool but not much of a power gainer. Going from 1.5 to 1.6 is were most of the extra power comes from. You may have clearance issues if you go with the alum rockers.

Full roller rocker have a shaft that bolts to the rocker stud then connects to the rocker arm surrounded by roller bearings allowing the arm to pivot freely thus reducing friction & freeing up some hp.

Look at my picture from an earlier post & you can see what I'm talking about.
Left head - SS 1.6 full roller rockers with guides(the black piece under the rocker arm), upgraded to 7/16 screw in studs & bigger springs.
Right head - Stamped 1.6 roller tip self aligning rockers, note no guides for the pushrods, has the factory pressed in 3/8 studs & stock springs.

All your engine components need to be matched for performance/strenght or you will find the weak link.

Deciding what you wish you could have vs what you can really afford and get can be hard. I've been fighting that battle for over 30 years now.

bart91406

I will have to be honest here, i do not actually know the difference between self guded rocker arms and regular. But how in the world do you have a cylinder head without valve guides!What in the world would seal the valve?

89IrocZ350TPI

Thanks a bunch for the responses.

bgood71

The jegs rocker you linked to only has a roller tip. Full roller rockers have a roller at the tip and the fulcrum(where the rocker mounts on the stud).My pal at the machine shop said that the roller tip will reduce a tiny amount of friction at the pushrod, but most of the friction is at the fulcrum...so most gain is with "full roller". Staying with the factory 1.5 ratio won't yield hp gains but will allow the engine to rev quicker, while going to a 1.6 ratio will be like changing the cam.However I've read that 1.6 rockers need shims and different keepers, a search on the topic will yield better info. Hope this helps in your choice.

bart91406

I did a little research, and yes, all sbc heads have valve guides!

Heslekrants

My bad, I was actually refering to the pushrod guides which the heads that use self aligning rockers don't have.

bart91406

OK, that makes a little more sence!

89RsPower!

He ment guide plates. They align pushrods on non self aligning heads.

89IrocZ350TPI

^^ these look good to me. any complaints??

tony_cogliandro

iTrader: (3)

this has been one of the best threads i have seen in a long time. i have to buy some rockers to go on some new head - well not know - but re-mfg. hey they are new to me. but i need rockers and this told me everything i needed to know.

89RsPower!

Look for something like that made from stainless steel. Aluminum rocker arms normally arn't that durable. SS pieces will last a lot longer.

89IrocZ350TPI

Do you have a link to one under 250. All the ones I found were 300 plus

Heslekrants

Here are WYSCO TRUE PRO SERIES ROLLER ROCKERS for $125 including shipping.
SBC CHEVY STAINLESS ROLLER ROCKERS 1.6 3/8 # 23023

I've been running the 7/16 version for over a year and very happy with them. I bought my rockers from the same company below. They also did all the machine work on my alum heads as well. Great group to work with.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBC-C...Q5fAccessories

bart91406

Stainless steel rockers are nice, but aluminum rockers have been in production for years, and I have never seen a failure due to the aluminum material.

The only times I have seen rockers fail are due to the bearings, and those bearings are the same in aluminum or stainless steel rockers.

Heslekrants

I snagged this from another forum.


There really are three material choices in (full) roller rocker arms:




Aluminum:

Lightweight, easily produced (extrusion process), usually lower cost can have a dampening affect on high-lift, solid valvetrain components due to shock absorbing qualities of aluminum.

Lots of different manufacturers. Some brands are cheap knock-offs and may not even measure up to their specified ratios. Use a well-known brand name like Crane, Comp Cams and various others.

Excellent choice for good all-around performance on the street or at the track. Some believe that the aluminum becomes more brittle over time, so perhaps a steel rocker would be better for a street engine where higher mileage is anticipated.




Stainless:

Very strong/rigid. Due to the material strength, the trunions can be made larger in diameter and take more load than smaller diameter parts in aluminum bodied rocker arms. Usually much more expensive. Definitely not necessary for street engines.



Chrome-Moly:

Very strong/rigid. Due to the material strength, the trunions can be made larger in diameter and take more load than smaller diameter parts in aluminum bodied rocker arms. Usually somewhat more expensive. Definitely not necessary for street engines, but a good choice in race engines.

skinny z

No problems with the push rod holes in the cylinder heads?
I upgraded to Comp Pro Magnum 1.6 non self aligning rockers on my Vortecs (12558060) and it was necessary to elongate the push rod holes to prevent the pushrod from binding. This was done at the same time as modifying the heads for screw in studs and guide plates.
For the record, the mod was worth 2/10's at the track.

tony_cogliandro

iTrader: (3)

exactly what did you mean when you say elongate the puish rod holes? the holes already go all the way through dont they? so how can you make the holes longer? or do you actually mean something else?
not trying to be costic, i really want to know. i have seen the term a lot but still cant figure out what is ment by that?
they said to elongate my tpi center holes for pre 86 heads, but they did not mean to make them longer - they ment to make them wider.
is that what you mean?

skinny z

The factory holes in my Vortecs were small and round and served to guide the push rod along with the self aligning feature of the rocker arms.
With the added ratio of the 1.6's, the push rod needs more room so the holes need to be elongated or machined to a oval shape. This provides the required clearence and the guide plates take care of the alignment issue.
I'm not sure it's a problem if you maintain the self guiding rockers are forego the upgrade to guideplates.
Heslekrants has the 1.6 upgrade on his Vortecs however he makes no mention of the push rod holes so I assume it's only a concern if you make the switch to guide plates and traditional (non self-aligning ) rockers.

tony_cogliandro

iTrader: (3)

im thinking of going to 1.6 rockers on my 601's - do you think i have to make that modification? they are already self aligning - so will i have to change? dont they have 1.6's that can be used as self aligning?

Heslekrants

Pushrod clearance can vairy depending on the rocker arm you use.

Heads designed for the self aligning rockers normally have smaller pushrod holes so you may need to widen the holes. I didn't find this nessesary on my Vortec heads when I used the 1.6 self aligning roller tip rockers.

Always check your clearances/coil bind when changing valve train parts!

Alum rockers are made bigger (weaker metal) and that can cause clearance issues which may require longer pushrods and wideing the pushrod holes. I've used alum rockers in many motors going all the way back to the 70's. The light weight is great just like alum rods but I wouldn't put them on a daily driver.

My alum Vortec heads were designed with the extra clearance already there so I didn't have any issues. My heads did require longer than factory pushrods.

skinny z

I can only comment on the 12558060 Vortecs as delivered by GMPP. As I understand it, these heads use the push rod holes and a rail style (self aligning ) rocker to keep proper valve train geometry. If you make the change to a 1.6 ratio rocker that is self aligning, it works like the OEM set up and the holes don't need to be enlarged. Unless of course you've maxed out the capacity of the valve train by combining the 1.6's with an already larger camshaft.

skinny z

[QUOTE=Heslekrants;4099324]

Always check your clearances/coil bind when changing valve train parts!

QUOTE]

Pay attention to this.

tony_cogliandro

iTrader: (3)

yes i bought a zz4 cam with stronger springs that come with zz4 heads and im getting the push rods too.
so i will make sure i check them.
i was going to use ss full roller rockers.
thought i would need new valve covers too. they are not center bolt so i will need covers.

bgood71

A couple other things to keep in mind when looking for rockers.1-stock heads with centerbolt valve covers either need self aligning rockers or guideplates. 2-If installing guideplates on factory heads the rocker studs need to be changed. Also, if you have centerbolt valve covers and don't use rockers for them you may run into fitment problems with the valve covers.

89IrocZ350TPI

If you have a center bolt you will need a narrow style roller.

skinny z

I use stock stamped steel valve covers (Vortec centre bolt). It was necessary to clearence the support inside the cover to fit Comp Pro Magnum 1.6 rockers. Simple job though.

navyCM

iTrader: (3)

would these be a good choice for a set of AFR 180cc heads? been shopping around for a set of quality not to pricey RRs.

Heslekrants

I'm very happy with mine. My son is running the same brand of rockers on his 550hp 468BBC and they have held up nicey to his abuse. He bought his rockers from the same Ebay guy skipwhite

navyCM

iTrader: (3)

heres the build i had in mind:

AS&M runners (already have them)
TPiS intake base
plenum will be port to match the runner
AFR 180cc
XFI268, 08-466-8
Hooker 2055s
Hooker Catback

in need of a set of RRs to really compliment the heads. ive been told though that 1.6s will be unnecessary, still not sure why.

Heslekrants

Your cam is speced using 1.6 rocker, stay with the 1.5 and your lift drops to .534.


XFI" 268 Hydraulic Roller Camshaft
Chevy 262-400ci 1955-98
Lift: .570"/.565" w/1.6 Rockers
Duration: 268°/276°
RPM Range: 1800-5800

navyCM

iTrader: (3)

since i already have to buy rockers why not get the 1.6 rr?