CrazyHawaiian

I've done alot of reading and alot of posting and I'm going to take everyones advice and strongly consider a Singleplane EFI setup for my next project high RPM 377 TT. Since I've never tried or even seen a Singleplane, and I dont know anyone with one, I figgured I would ask some questions on the forums.

First off, what are my options as far as Singleplane units you can buy? I found a thread anesthes made here that lists three Singleplane EFI Units: Victor EFI, Pro-Ram, and Holley EFI. Are there any other options that you guys know of that can be bought? (sorry I'm not good at fabrication, no skills, so I cant make one) Would like to research all posibilities before deciding on one.

Next question deals with the install. Alot of these units use other types of Throttle Bodies and they need to be modified to work with our EFI setups. I've found a post by Kenwood in this thread here where he goes over how to convert the Ford Throttle Bodies to work for our setups, as well as what cables to use. Anyone got any info about using a 4bbl style Throttle Body like the setup anesthes is running? I've read the shorter cables from OEM carb cars will work, what about the TPS/IAC? Anything I need to do there?

Last question deals with airflow distribution. Alot of intakes scared be away because of horror stories about uneven airflow distribution. This can cause some cylinders to run richer/leaner than others, and this makes me worry because I'm using a 749ECM batch fire system. This is the main reason I decided to consider Singleplane EFI over the rest (previously I had decided on a Miniram). For you Singleplane EFI guys, do you have any experiences with uneven airflow distribution? Do some plugs read leaner or richer than others?

Thanks for your guys help, I really appreciate it.

NEEDforSPEED

Starting at 2k, supports 1,500+hp

CrazyHawaiian

Wow crazyness 1500hp. My goal right now for my next motor is kinda high, 700hp at the flywheel. I know its up there, I like to set the goals high and try my best to get there. Is that the Victor EFI setup in that picture? I was hoping to spend alot less than $2K. I wanted to just install the intake w/ big injectors before swapping motors, re-use the OEM speed density harness in the car and convert to 749 w/ 58$.

NEEDforSPEED

yup macadamia nuts its a Victor - EFI or a Performer RPM i like how you set goals, you seemed determined, if i read right twin turbo? 377?
so your running a 400 block bored .30 over with a 3.480" crank,
"ya i can read minds im just that good" haha not to get off topic but what turbos are you going to run? anyways iv read that the victor efi can pull up to 8,500rpms and since you said you wanted some high rpms then id look into this i my self would just buy the intake bare and drill the bosses for the injectors and build it....

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Id say convert a Vic or Vic JR over. Thats what road I think Im gona take.

434sb
Single Turbo
7749ecm

Lo-tec

I'm running the same style 4-bbl setup as anesthes. It uses a TPI IAC and a different application GM TPS. The TPS still uses a 3-pin weatherpack, and I think it would be the same connector that is on your current harness (flat 3-pin with round ends). It's the accel gen 6 harness, which I think was copied off of a TPI setup. Regardless, even if you have to change the connector, it should work with your setup (tps goes from .5V-around 4.5V). I was talking with a buddy this weekend about this kind of swap, and it would be sweet. No new harness, just swap the intake and TB, and burn your own chip. I'm running the pro-ram, and have run the cutler (pretty much the same as the holley). For the power you're looking at, I would look into the pro-ram or the victor jr. All you should need is an intake with rails, a regulator, a few fuel line mods, and a TB. As far as cables go, the stock one for my 84 q-jet fit perfect.

As far as uneven flow distribution, all of my plugs have looked the same. However, this is an NA app. Be prepared to run a cowl hood or equivalent also, as this style of intake is tall.

CrazyHawaiian

So do you guys think I'm on the right path going with a Singleplane EFI setup over the other types of intakes? I figgure its a good match for a batch fire ECM, but I'm not sure if I'm being too paranoid about the uneven airflow distribution thing.

I've read the Victor EFI was not based off the Victor Jr intake, its based off something called the Victor E but still advertised to 8500rpm. Do you guys think a converted Victor Jr would be any better? What kind of tools would I need to convert one?

Not sure what turbo's I'm gonna use yet, but they will be T04E style. Gotta finish the motor specs and determine the airflow before deciding on the turbos. Engine setup is gonna be based off an aftermarket motown block and the 220 heads with the gale banks twin manifolds. Still need to finalize plans for the internals and the cam.

CrazyHawaiian

Hey thanks for the info Lo-tec, appreciate it. I'm sure I could re-pin the TPS weatherpack if I needed to. Really happy to hear the IAC will be an easy conversion. The car will need all new fuel lines from the pump to the front so hopefully I can get the intake and fuel rail setup before having the lines made. Right now I'm using two pumps with my Vortech setup, gonna be converting the fuel system to a single pump in the back with a sumped tank. I hope to install the Singleplane setup on my current combo and have the fuel system and ECM all converted and ready to go before swapping in the next motor.

Z69

anesthes told me the victor efi wasn't based on a Vic Jr.
No slight to him, but if I wanted one I'd call Edel. about it.

The Proram will match to a 1206 or bigger real easy.
As would the Holley I'd guess. That is one thing you need to verify for your intake.

For only 700hp, An HSR would work.
I have a similar goal on my next motor and I've seen kits with the HSR that put out more I'm pretty sure. They are a bit tight lipped on the combo.

I wouldn't use any Motown stuff! JMOP.
It's a little hard for you to ask around over there.
But I've yet to find any consistently bad comments on DART.
Can't say the same for World. And these were horror stories.
Not just a mix up or single small error.
And for only 700hp, a stock early block would be fine so I've read. I'll find out eventually.

My research lead me to Dart 215's, AFR210's, and Brodix RR200's w/cnc chamber or Track1's. All similar in price and flow into the .500" lift range. I went RR200's since they will work with my current 383 since I need a small chamber.
I'd have to mill all the others.
This guy sells all 3 so he isn't biased. Lewis Racing Engines Tell him Scott from Bakersfield sent you.
He's a real good guy. Very honest as far as I can tell.
He posts often on a BBC board I frequent. He has good prices. I'd wager he can beat your price over there.
Not hard to do from what I remember from when I lived over there.

From what I can tell, if you race a lot, go straight to a single T76 turbo. Or for only in the 700 range a T70.
For twins I found the T04E 60 or T61 for lots of HP creep.
Seen a twin t61 355 make 900 to the tires and Hi 9's.
I spent months researching my combo if you want my findings. Now to save up the cash

CrazyHawaiian

Damn man thanks for the advice. You are right that there is really nobody to ask around here and the prices from local places are really up there. I'm planning to buy the engine parts from the mianland US and have a family friend assemble it here. Thanks for the tips on the World stuff, I had no idea. Time to do some reading. I've already got the gale banks twin manifolds so definately twin T04E's. Cant wait till I get the motor specs down and then I get to see what turbo's will work. 900rwhp and 9's damn thats crazy. I dunno if I could handle that. This is gonna be a street car with the occasional 1/4 mile run. I've got alot of other stuff planned for this setup, FMIC, water/meth injection w/ seperate cell, electronic boost controller and electronic wastegates, 2 BOV's, WB02 and EGT sensors. I think my limits will be the fuel pump (700fwhp max) and the 2 bar map sensor (what is that, 14.5-14.7psi max), though I dont know which I would max out first yet. I hear ya about saving up the $$. I've been saving up for a while, also gonna sell my 92 B4C to fund the project.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I have the holley setup, which is pretty much a cutler.

I got the manifold and fuel rail kit new. The fuel rail kit comes with an adjustable regulator, but you need to buy 1 adapter for the regulator to connect to a -6an line.

My throttle body, I got off Lo-tec. It's a holley unit, used, but performs absolutely great. The progressive linkage is just oustanding. Your tip-in tps doesn't cause head jerking, so a 500+ hp car is VERY streetable with a manual transmission. but when you wanna go fun, just mash it to the floor and the car takes off like a rocket.

I'm using a '749 ECM. I used to do chips, but I've recently purchased an Ostrich from Craig Moates. The ostrich is the best thing I have ever bought, hands down. I spent an hour the other night with a buddy. Had the ostrich opened up with Tunerpro, and Logworks opened up with my Inovate LC-1 wideband 02 sensor.

RIght now i'm trying to understand why the narrowband says my afr is ok (128blm) but wideband saw like 20:1 afr. I fattened it up (according to wideband) and it seems to run ok.

More to come.

-- Joe

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

That doesn't seem like a high power estimate to me; its low, if anything. An NA 377, properly cammed and headed, could make near that and still be streetable. Not a criticism at all, I love 377s (used to have one in a 63 Nova SS), but I think you may be underestimating their capabilities. That is going to be one sweet car!

CrazyHawaiian

Thanks for the tips anesthes, I'll be following your project closely. I hear you about the power thing LT1guy. I know a 377 on boost is capable of making more power with the right setup. For me the limit wont be the engine or the turbo's, it'll be the fuel system and the map sensor. The fuel system will be easily upgradable if it does become the limiting factor, but I'm not too sure about the map sensor. I know there is a hack to run the 3 bar map sensor but from what I've read you loose some resolution, and if I'm reading that right that means the engine management will not be as accurate at the higher boost/rpm levels. I'll have so much $$ into this setup, I dont really want to chance anything. Thats also why I'm so paranoid about the airflow distribution through the intake. I definately need to do more research into the 749 w/ $58. I'm still not sure if it will be able to support the RPM level's I want to reach (7,500+).

Z69

You don't need to turn 7500 to get 700 hp unless you only want to run 10lbs or something. Now I know why you were looking at 220cc heads. 6k and 15psi should do it with good heads.
Lurk on Turbomustangs.com for a while.
Try a search on T70 or MP T70
The stock 58 & 8D code ends at 6375 rpm. You can mess with the last PE table entry at 6400. Lots of people do it that way.
No idea how well it works though. I've made a few 7500 rpm 8D bins but never happened on anyone that could use it.

CrazyHawaiian

Damn 6375 rpm, I didnt know about that. Thanks for the info man. I'll definately take your advice and lurk, I'm actually a member on those forums from back when I had a Mustang SVO. I think I'm really gonna have to think about this new motor project and the 749 ECM now. The reason I'm drawn to higher RPM's and a destroked motor is because I want to maximize my powerband on boost. I'll admit it also has something to do with the sound a SBC at higher RPM's too. But mainly because I dont want the powerband to start low and boost to hit 1/2 way through. I want it to be boosting as much as possible when the powerband starts. I know smaller turbo's would minimize any lag, but then on the other hand I have high HP goals and low boost levels. So its a hard compromise to make with alot of variables, really making it hard for me to decide on what combo I want. Its gonna be a manual tranny w/lightweight drivetrain and mostly freeway car with rolling starts (high HP Import Killer). Definately different from your average domestic build, not really into the 1/4 mile. I think Singleplane is a step in the right direction, really liking what I'm reading about it.

Z69

With correct turbo sizing you can have full boost
by 3k or a little less. Any less and they get hard to drive from the posts I've seen. Unless 500hp is all you want. Then 2500 is doable. 2 60-1 Hifi's are sounding like what you want.
Seen a guy with a carbed 355 and that setup. He had to go with a bigger than the commonly used exh housings because he had trouble with wheel spin in normal driving.
For the hi rpm stuff you should go to a solid roller too.
230-236@.050 is pretty close to right size with good heads. Seen an LS1 make 900 fhp with a 230 CC SR.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Look around for some of the merc efi intakes. They are used in boat and marine applications. They can be found in single or dual plane efi intakes. Some one around here has one. Look on ebay and other such sites. Fabrication skills are really not needed for a conversion. If you can run or have acces to a drill press or mill drill then you can do it.