Single-Plane Discussion
07-18-2007, 12:40 AM
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Single-Plane Discussion
Seems like there hasn't been much, if any, talk about single-plane MPFI on here in awhile. Was it just a phase? Seems like most that don't have single-plane setups think they are useless because the "Don't make more power" (compared to say a MR, HSR, SR) but what they don't realize is its not going to make more power, but rather allow for more power. Or at least thats how I'm seeing it.
So those of you that have already gone to a single-plane or know a good deal about them, I would like to get your opinion on a couple things.
Should I just stick with an Edelbrock Pro-Flo, Holley C950, or Accel Pro-Ram or would it be better to buy a regular manifold and have it converted. I'm almost leaning towards the latter because I could have the injector bungs placed slightly higher to leave room for a Nitrous Fogger bung below it, like this.
If I go with a carb manifold and have it converted what are some characteristic I should look for? I know there are some difference in how a dry manifold acts compared to a wet, but I didn't really get the whole picture.
Throttle body is the next thing I did not seem to find much information on. I know some use a 90* elbow and LS1 or TPI/LT1 style. Or some use 4 barrels right on top of the manifold. Is there any distinct advantage to either setup? I was thinking about a Full Throttle Performance throttle body with the IAC and TPS, like this one. But was unsure is anyone has found any advantage to one setup over the other.
So those of you that have already gone to a single-plane or know a good deal about them, I would like to get your opinion on a couple things.
Should I just stick with an Edelbrock Pro-Flo, Holley C950, or Accel Pro-Ram or would it be better to buy a regular manifold and have it converted. I'm almost leaning towards the latter because I could have the injector bungs placed slightly higher to leave room for a Nitrous Fogger bung below it, like this.
If I go with a carb manifold and have it converted what are some characteristic I should look for? I know there are some difference in how a dry manifold acts compared to a wet, but I didn't really get the whole picture.
Throttle body is the next thing I did not seem to find much information on. I know some use a 90* elbow and LS1 or TPI/LT1 style. Or some use 4 barrels right on top of the manifold. Is there any distinct advantage to either setup? I was thinking about a Full Throttle Performance throttle body with the IAC and TPS, like this one. But was unsure is anyone has found any advantage to one setup over the other.
Last edited by Kurt04; 07-18-2007 at 12:47 AM.
07-18-2007, 12:53 AM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
there been some post about single plane intakes,
personally i get an intake with the injector bungs already cast into the manifold
like the edelbrock or the new pro products one.
reason being the bung sometime arnt welded in the best angle and not straight.
and that pic above is and example, it ok for the 1/4 but everyday driving will suffer. because the injector are to high causing some fuel to puddle lossing off idle preformance and fuel milage,
that and hes prob using a carb spacer cause the injector rails are to close to throttle body.
----------
here the whole intake
by the look of it he gonna have to run at least a 1.5 spacer for the throttle body
it may not fit under a stock hood
personally i get an intake with the injector bungs already cast into the manifold
like the edelbrock or the new pro products one.
reason being the bung sometime arnt welded in the best angle and not straight.
and that pic above is and example, it ok for the 1/4 but everyday driving will suffer. because the injector are to high causing some fuel to puddle lossing off idle preformance and fuel milage,
that and hes prob using a carb spacer cause the injector rails are to close to throttle body.
----------
here the whole intake
by the look of it he gonna have to run at least a 1.5 spacer for the throttle body
it may not fit under a stock hood
Last edited by bodie; 07-18-2007 at 01:02 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
07-18-2007, 01:38 AM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
there been some post about single plane intakes,
personally i get an intake with the injector bungs already cast into the manifold
like the edelbrock or the new pro products one.
reason being the bung sometime arnt welded in the best angle and not straight.
and that pic above is and example, it ok for the 1/4 but everyday driving will suffer. because the injector are to high causing some fuel to puddle lossing off idle preformance and fuel milage,
that and hes prob using a carb spacer cause the injector rails are to close to throttle body.
here the whole intake
by the look of it he gonna have to run at least a 1.5 spacer for the throttle body
it may not fit under a stock hood
personally i get an intake with the injector bungs already cast into the manifold
like the edelbrock or the new pro products one.
reason being the bung sometime arnt welded in the best angle and not straight.
and that pic above is and example, it ok for the 1/4 but everyday driving will suffer. because the injector are to high causing some fuel to puddle lossing off idle preformance and fuel milage,
that and hes prob using a carb spacer cause the injector rails are to close to throttle body.
here the whole intake
by the look of it he gonna have to run at least a 1.5 spacer for the throttle body
it may not fit under a stock hood
I thought about the puddling issue also, so maybe it would be better to have the foggers above the injectors? Or possibly a plate system.
I'm not worried about fitting under the stock hood, my setup will be in an S-10 with a cowl hood.
I also saw that intake with the almost 90* injector angle and though that was very odd.
Last edited by Kurt04; 07-18-2007 at 01:42 AM.
07-20-2007, 08:30 AM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
Singleplane is the shiznit. The holley setup I had with the 4bbl throttle body was great. Too bad it didn't fit under the vette hood.
My stance is still:
Miniram is nicer than HSR, but expencive, and has uneven air distribution
LT1 is nicer than HSR, cheap, same issue as MR, and the remote thermostat is fugly
Singleplane is expencive, but makes the most power. (direct airflow).
-- Joe
My stance is still:
Miniram is nicer than HSR, but expencive, and has uneven air distribution
LT1 is nicer than HSR, cheap, same issue as MR, and the remote thermostat is fugly
Singleplane is expencive, but makes the most power. (direct airflow).
-- Joe
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07-20-2007, 10:26 AM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
Singleplane is the shiznit. The holley setup I had with the 4bbl throttle body was great. Too bad it didn't fit under the vette hood.
My stance is still:
Miniram is nicer than HSR, but expencive, and has uneven air distribution
LT1 is nicer than HSR, cheap, same issue as MR, and the remote thermostat is fugly
Singleplane is expencive, but makes the most power. (direct airflow).
-- Joe
My stance is still:
Miniram is nicer than HSR, but expencive, and has uneven air distribution
LT1 is nicer than HSR, cheap, same issue as MR, and the remote thermostat is fugly
Singleplane is expencive, but makes the most power. (direct airflow).
-- Joe
So what is your stance on:
Off-the-Shelf Single-Plane EFI manifold vs. non-EFI Manifold Converted to EFI.
Plate Nitrous vs. Foggers above the injectors (which really could be a topic for the power adder section.)
4-Barrel TB vs. Horizonal (LT1/TPI or LS1 style) TB on a 90* Elbow.
I honestly think I have read just about all the single-plane EFI threads on here, none of these topics are really discussed in full. Anyone know of any other forums out there that may have an abundance of single-plane EFI knowledge?
Last edited by Kurt04; 07-20-2007 at 10:30 AM.
07-20-2007, 11:55 AM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
the single plane is going to give you the potential for the most horsepower, due to its larger, short runners, and central-fed plenum.
the decision of purpose build efi manifold vs modifying an existing manifold is going to be strictly cost and skills. If you have a manifold, it MAY be cheaper to mod that one. If you have the skills, the cheapest would be to mod your own manifold and fab fuel rails. the next cheapest would be to buy the purpose built manifold and matching fuel rails. The most expensive would be to have someone build all that for you custom. I don't think you would see much difference in HP if the mods are done properly (NOT like the picture in the above post with bad injector placement).
the throttle question comes down to hood clearance, and cost (again). The TPI type on an elbow has a slighter disadvantage vs a throttle 'plate' and inlet elbow, becuase it will skew the airflow into the plenum, however, this will also provide you a greater plenum volume. The negative is that this might be too tall to fit underhood.
if either situation fits under the hood, you might actually have to try both to see what makes more power(again, you are talking single hp at a time here: maybe worth 15-20hp max effort).
as for the port vs fogger NOS...not being a Nitrous guy, I would think you could still build waaaay more than enough power with a plate to blow the bottom end up that it wouldn't matter.....or i guess worth the extra plumbing hassle. This is BECAUSE the single plane has a nice central plenum.
the decision of purpose build efi manifold vs modifying an existing manifold is going to be strictly cost and skills. If you have a manifold, it MAY be cheaper to mod that one. If you have the skills, the cheapest would be to mod your own manifold and fab fuel rails. the next cheapest would be to buy the purpose built manifold and matching fuel rails. The most expensive would be to have someone build all that for you custom. I don't think you would see much difference in HP if the mods are done properly (NOT like the picture in the above post with bad injector placement).
the throttle question comes down to hood clearance, and cost (again). The TPI type on an elbow has a slighter disadvantage vs a throttle 'plate' and inlet elbow, becuase it will skew the airflow into the plenum, however, this will also provide you a greater plenum volume. The negative is that this might be too tall to fit underhood.
if either situation fits under the hood, you might actually have to try both to see what makes more power(again, you are talking single hp at a time here: maybe worth 15-20hp max effort).
as for the port vs fogger NOS...not being a Nitrous guy, I would think you could still build waaaay more than enough power with a plate to blow the bottom end up that it wouldn't matter.....or i guess worth the extra plumbing hassle. This is BECAUSE the single plane has a nice central plenum.
07-21-2007, 01:08 AM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
the single plane is going to give you the potential for the most horsepower, due to its larger, short runners, and central-fed plenum.
the decision of purpose build efi manifold vs modifying an existing manifold is going to be strictly cost and skills. If you have a manifold, it MAY be cheaper to mod that one. If you have the skills, the cheapest would be to mod your own manifold and fab fuel rails. the next cheapest would be to buy the purpose built manifold and matching fuel rails. The most expensive would be to have someone build all that for you custom. I don't think you would see much difference in HP if the mods are done properly (NOT like the picture in the above post with bad injector placement).
the throttle question comes down to hood clearance, and cost (again). The TPI type on an elbow has a slighter disadvantage vs a throttle 'plate' and inlet elbow, becuase it will skew the airflow into the plenum, however, this will also provide you a greater plenum volume. The negative is that this might be too tall to fit underhood.
if either situation fits under the hood, you might actually have to try both to see what makes more power(again, you are talking single hp at a time here: maybe worth 15-20hp max effort).
as for the port vs fogger NOS...not being a Nitrous guy, I would think you could still build waaaay more than enough power with a plate to blow the bottom end up that it wouldn't matter.....or i guess worth the extra plumbing hassle. This is BECAUSE the single plane has a nice central plenum.
the decision of purpose build efi manifold vs modifying an existing manifold is going to be strictly cost and skills. If you have a manifold, it MAY be cheaper to mod that one. If you have the skills, the cheapest would be to mod your own manifold and fab fuel rails. the next cheapest would be to buy the purpose built manifold and matching fuel rails. The most expensive would be to have someone build all that for you custom. I don't think you would see much difference in HP if the mods are done properly (NOT like the picture in the above post with bad injector placement).
the throttle question comes down to hood clearance, and cost (again). The TPI type on an elbow has a slighter disadvantage vs a throttle 'plate' and inlet elbow, becuase it will skew the airflow into the plenum, however, this will also provide you a greater plenum volume. The negative is that this might be too tall to fit underhood.
if either situation fits under the hood, you might actually have to try both to see what makes more power(again, you are talking single hp at a time here: maybe worth 15-20hp max effort).
as for the port vs fogger NOS...not being a Nitrous guy, I would think you could still build waaaay more than enough power with a plate to blow the bottom end up that it wouldn't matter.....or i guess worth the extra plumbing hassle. This is BECAUSE the single plane has a nice central plenum.
I though I had read a couple post in which someone was discussing what makes a manifold better for a dry manifold setup as apposed to a wet manifold setup. Anyone remember this?
The fact that the inlet elbow may skew the airflow didn't even come to mind. That may as well be something I experiment with down the road, but a 4-barrel with an air cleaner on top will most likely be the simpler setup to start out with.
I plan to attend the School of Automotive Machinist in Houston, TX after this deployment, so maybe I can get some flow comparisons between the two setups.
What 4-barrel TB's are everyone using? Anyone using a Full Throttle Performance TB like I mentioned in the first post?
07-27-2007, 01:47 AM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
So the Edelbrock Performer RPM Pro-Flo, the ACCEL DFI Pro-Ram, and the Holley Multi-Point standalone systems come with MAP, TPS, IAC, and IAT sensors. Does anyone know if these are GM Style? How will they work with a 730 ECU? Is IAT the same as MAT? I know if I piece my own system together to get a throttle body with TPS and IAC, but I guess each of these manifolds have the fittings for the MAP and IAT?
07-27-2007, 07:46 AM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
Well after some searching, I have found that the Pro-Flo and the Holley have MAP fittings, but on the Pro-Flo the MAT is installed in the air cleaner base (you drill a hole, install a grommet, and stick the sensor through there) which I am not very fond of. On the Holley there is a fitting directly into the manifold for the MAT, from what I can tell. Both seem to be GM connectors as well. I emailed Edelbrock, Accel, and Holley as well as Professional Products (about their Super Hurricane EFI) to get specfics.
07-27-2007, 04:30 PM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
So the Edelbrock Performer RPM Pro-Flo, the ACCEL DFI Pro-Ram, and the Holley Multi-Point standalone systems come with MAP, TPS, IAC, and IAT sensors. Does anyone know if these are GM Style? How will they work with a 730 ECU? Is IAT the same as MAT? I know if I piece my own system together to get a throttle body with TPS and IAC, but I guess each of these manifolds have the fittings for the MAP and IAT?
07-27-2007, 07:15 PM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
I've had my Pro-Ram for over a year now. anesthes is right the mini ram has air distribution issues everytime I changed my plugs or removed the intake, cylinders 5,6,7, and 8 where black with fuel and soot. As soon as I changed to the single plane intake all that went away and I picked up 3 to 4 mph in the 1/4. My best so far is 11.64 @ 119mph with a 1.79 short time. The throttle response is crisper and it take less throttle to cruise. I went to MD last month and got 21 MPG, so I no the tune is on. All I had to do was add some fuel to my VE table. I do all my own tuning and yes on the factory 730 ECM with some help from a LM-1 WB. I just purchased a ZEX perimeter plate nitrous system 3 weeks ago, I tested the system with a 100 shot so far. The WB said all was good. I can't wait to hit the track again. Here are some current pics.
07-27-2007, 11:43 PM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
I've had my Pro-Ram for over a year now. anesthes is right the mini ram has air distribution issues everytime I changed my plugs or removed the intake, cylinders 5,6,7, and 8 where black with fuel and soot. As soon as I changed to the single plane intake all that went away and I picked up 3 to 4 mph in the 1/4. My best so far is 11.64 @ 119mph with a 1.79 short time. The throttle response is crisper and it take less throttle to cruise. I went to MD last month and got 21 MPG, so I no the tune is on. All I had to do was add some fuel to my VE table. I do all my own tuning and yes on the factory 730 ECM with some help from a LM-1 WB. I just purchased a ZEX perimeter plate nitrous system 3 weeks ago, I tested the system with a 100 shot so far. The WB said all was good. I can't wait to hit the track again. Here are some current pics.
So did you assemble your own Pro-Ram setup? Cause the only kits they sell are complete with wiring harness and ECU, right?
I emailed Accel but I guess I asked to many questions because their answer was "Please Call."
Holley hasn't replied yet, Edelbrock only told me what I had already known, same goes for Professional Products.
07-28-2007, 08:38 AM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
Yes, I pieced mine together seperatly. I bought the intake and rail kit, then I bought the 1200cfm TB. Keep in mind you'll have to buy other items to complete the swap, but it's all worth the money you put in to it. Send me a PM.
07-28-2007, 11:22 PM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
Well here is the questions I sent out to Accel, Edelbrock, Holley, and Proofessional Products.
Accel said "Please contact DFI Tech Line @ 248-380-2780" Which I would but I'm in Iraq, but zz17iroc can prolly answer those questions for the Accel setup.
Edelbrock said "The manifold does not have a MAT sensor fitting provision. We pull vacuum from our throttle body to supply the MAP sensor. The driver side is 3/8” NPT, while the passenger side is ½”NPT. It will handle the #1206 & #1207 gaskets without a problem. Thanks."
No reply from Holley.
Professional Products said "NO. You will need to source your own fittings. The manifold has 4-corner water ports are ½”.Fel-pro 1206? Yes. 1207? Yes. 4150. 4500 with adapter."
Does your SBC *Manifold Name, Part Number* come with fittings for a MAP sensor and have threaded hole for a MAT sensor? If so what size are they? Also what size is the coolant temp sensor fitting? Can this manifold be port matched to a Fel-pro 1206? Or possibly a 1207? What is the throttle body mount flange size? 4150? 4500?
Edelbrock said "The manifold does not have a MAT sensor fitting provision. We pull vacuum from our throttle body to supply the MAP sensor. The driver side is 3/8” NPT, while the passenger side is ½”NPT. It will handle the #1206 & #1207 gaskets without a problem. Thanks."
No reply from Holley.
Professional Products said "NO. You will need to source your own fittings. The manifold has 4-corner water ports are ½”.Fel-pro 1206? Yes. 1207? Yes. 4150. 4500 with adapter."
07-29-2007, 08:35 PM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
The Pro-Ram can be ported to 1206 or 1207, you can re-use your current fittings off of your old intake for the (PVC, brakes, Map,) and anything else that require vacuum. The TB also has provisions for vacuum. The manifold coolant temp sensor goes on the front driverside on the intake. The TB is a 1200CFM uint from Accel and it comes with the TPS and IAT sensors installed, all you have to do is set the voltage on the TPS and change the wiring for the IAC so that it works properly. It comes with the flat style connecter and not the square one that's on your current TB. The intake part# is ACC-74139 and TB part# is ACC-74202S4 at summitracing.com. I hope this helps.
Last edited by zz17iroc; 08-01-2007 at 04:16 PM.
07-30-2007, 04:31 AM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
The Pro-Ram can be port to 1206 or 1207, you can reuse your curuent fittings off of your old intake for the (PVC, brakes, Map,) and anything else that require vacuum. The TB also has provisions for vacuum. The manifold coolant temp sensor goes on the front driverside on the intake. The TB is a 1200CFM uint from Accel and it comes with the TPS and IAT sensors installed, all you have to do is set the voltage on the TPS and change the wiring for the IAC so that it works properly. It comes with the flat style connecter and not the square one that's on your current TB. The intake part# is ACC-74139 and TB part# is ACC-74202S4 at summitracing.com. I hope this helps.
I don't have "current intake" though, cause this will be going on my 383 and into my '92 S-10. I'm sure I'll be able to find all the fittings though.
I to will be using a 730, Moates Ostrich, and TunerPro RT and prolly will have S10wildside make me a complete wiring harness.
08-02-2007, 08:37 AM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
Well Holley finally emailed me back yesterday. This is what they had to say:
So I think that backs up my decision to go with the Accel Manifold and TB. Just gotta pick the size TB and Injectors.
TB has vacuum port for MAP sensor. Manifold is drilled and tapped for MAT sensor, 3/8 NPT. 3/8 NPT coolant temp sensor fitting. Fel-pro 1205 only. 4150 Throttle Body flange.
08-17-2007, 01:42 AM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
Ok, I'm ready to round up the pieces, but I need to select the TB and injector size.
I know the formula for selecting injector size:
But, I don't really know the HP output, if I had to guess I would say about 450. That would put me at 28lb/hr, is this enough though? Seems like alot of people are using much larger.
What about the TB size?
The complete Pro-Ram comes with 36lb./hr. injectors and a 1200cfm TB, its "rated" at 500+ hp.
I know the formula for selecting injector size:
Max HP X 0.5 and then divide that by # of injectors equals lb-hr.
What about the TB size?
The complete Pro-Ram comes with 36lb./hr. injectors and a 1200cfm TB, its "rated" at 500+ hp.
08-17-2007, 04:50 AM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
-- Joe
08-21-2007, 03:47 AM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
Ok, I'm ready to round up the pieces, but I need to select the TB and injector size.
I know the formula for selecting injector size:
But, I don't really know the HP output, if I had to guess I would say about 450. That would put me at 28lb/hr, is this enough though? Seems like alot of people are using much larger.
What about the TB size?
The complete Pro-Ram comes with 36lb./hr. injectors and a 1200cfm TB, its "rated" at 500+ hp.
I know the formula for selecting injector size:
Max HP X 0.5 and then divide that by # of injectors equals lb-hr.
What about the TB size?
The complete Pro-Ram comes with 36lb./hr. injectors and a 1200cfm TB, its "rated" at 500+ hp.
08-22-2007, 03:31 PM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
I'll get some pics up in a sec of my motor-in-progress. I just got the valve covers and head studs in today, and assembled it for a mock-up.
I think the general consensus is, if you can afford a single-plane, and it fits into your setup, go with a single-plane. But to be honest, I got my entire setup cheaper than what I would have paid for a Miniram, and its not a home-made unit either. If you shop a little, it can be done.
I know it will fit under a stock Camaro hood with some "adjusting" of the under-hood metal support. It will NOT fit under a stock Corvette hood though, and maybe not a stock Firebird hood, so this needs to be planned in the build as well. If you don't mind it, solid motor mounts are a possibility as well to make it fit....
Last edited by Phatfiddler; 08-22-2007 at 06:09 PM.
08-22-2007, 03:47 PM
#25
Re: Single-Plane Discussion
Heres pictures of the mock-up, single-plane, and ports.
Anesthes - how do you like that air intake?
Too bad its only in use for the mock-up currently until i get new plumbing......
Anesthes - how do you like that air intake?
Too bad its only in use for the mock-up currently until i get new plumbing...... Last edited by Phatfiddler; 08-22-2007 at 06:10 PM.
08-22-2007, 06:55 PM
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
08-23-2007, 11:00 AM
#27
Re: Single-Plane Discussion
I'd like to jump in on this thread, mostly to just tag along and get some info.
I'm definitely going EFI soon, but haven't decided on an intake. It must fit under my stock IROC hood. I've been researching the miniram and HSR, and now just started looking into a single plane setup. Here's a pic of what I had in mind to possibly fit under the stock hood.
The piece is made by http://www.intakeelbows.com
He also does custom stuff too at a reasonable price.
I'm definitely going EFI soon, but haven't decided on an intake. It must fit under my stock IROC hood. I've been researching the miniram and HSR, and now just started looking into a single plane setup. Here's a pic of what I had in mind to possibly fit under the stock hood.
The piece is made by http://www.intakeelbows.com
He also does custom stuff too at a reasonable price.
08-23-2007, 11:26 AM
#28
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
I'd like to jump in on this thread, mostly to just tag along and get some info.
I'm definitely going EFI soon, but haven't decided on an intake. It must fit under my stock IROC hood. I've been researching the miniram and HSR, and now just started looking into a single plane setup. Here's a pic of what I had in mind to possibly fit under the stock hood.
The piece is made by http://www.intakeelbows.com
He also does custom stuff too at a reasonable price.
I'm definitely going EFI soon, but haven't decided on an intake. It must fit under my stock IROC hood. I've been researching the miniram and HSR, and now just started looking into a single plane setup. Here's a pic of what I had in mind to possibly fit under the stock hood.
The piece is made by http://www.intakeelbows.com
He also does custom stuff too at a reasonable price.
EDIT: Actually now that I look at the bigger image, it might not be that much taller that the 4-barrel, but as jwscab mentioned an elbow can sometimes skew the airflow in and not deliver an even amount into each chamber.
Last edited by Kurt04; 08-23-2007 at 11:31 AM.
08-23-2007, 12:00 PM
#29
Re: Single-Plane Discussion
I was actually just posting the picture as an example. Thats not exactly what I had in mind. I believe the guy that does those can build something off a cardboard cutout, or a drawing you send him. So I thought I would actually mock something up with the hood and intake on.
Anyway, the design of these "elbows" is critical to get good airflow. I think if you really took your time and worked on the short side radius of the elbow I would think you'd be able to even out the flow. That would be the worse spot for flow I could think off. It can't be any worse than the miniram? With the miniram manifold costing $900 I would think I should be able have a single plane modified and custom elbow made for at least the same price, maybe less.
Anyway, the design of these "elbows" is critical to get good airflow. I think if you really took your time and worked on the short side radius of the elbow I would think you'd be able to even out the flow. That would be the worse spot for flow I could think off. It can't be any worse than the miniram? With the miniram manifold costing $900 I would think I should be able have a single plane modified and custom elbow made for at least the same price, maybe less.
08-24-2007, 04:44 AM
#30
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
I was actually just posting the picture as an example. Thats not exactly what I had in mind. I believe the guy that does those can build something off a cardboard cutout, or a drawing you send him. So I thought I would actually mock something up with the hood and intake on.
Anyway, the design of these "elbows" is critical to get good airflow. I think if you really took your time and worked on the short side radius of the elbow I would think you'd be able to even out the flow. That would be the worse spot for flow I could think off. It can't be any worse than the miniram? With the miniram manifold costing $900 I would think I should be able have a single plane modified and custom elbow made for at least the same price, maybe less.
Anyway, the design of these "elbows" is critical to get good airflow. I think if you really took your time and worked on the short side radius of the elbow I would think you'd be able to even out the flow. That would be the worse spot for flow I could think off. It can't be any worse than the miniram? With the miniram manifold costing $900 I would think I should be able have a single plane modified and custom elbow made for at least the same price, maybe less.
What is everyones opinion on TB and Injector sizing?
08-24-2007, 01:24 PM
#31
Re: Single-Plane Discussion
Kurt, here are a few pics that I told you I would post via our PM conversation. The actual LT1 style IAC at the rear of the TB, and the Accel part # 77651 adapter.
08-24-2007, 01:49 PM
#33
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
'730 and TunerPro RT.
And thanks for the pics and answering my questions.
EDIT: I'm not so much looking for suggestions for might setup, but more like guidelines or a "rule of thumb." Since this isn't meant to be "my" thread.
And thanks for the pics and answering my questions.
EDIT: I'm not so much looking for suggestions for might setup, but more like guidelines or a "rule of thumb." Since this isn't meant to be "my" thread.
Last edited by Kurt04; 08-24-2007 at 01:58 PM.
08-24-2007, 02:53 PM
#34
Re: Single-Plane Discussion
edelbrock makes the victor manifolds for EFI and they are priced well. I'd like to go single plane and run a 415-434 small block. so i can use 1206 ports and get great airflow for that motor.
a intake elbow that would allow TPI style TB and sensors would be awesome! may not clear stock hood, but a nice cowl hood looks great anyway
a intake elbow that would allow TPI style TB and sensors would be awesome! may not clear stock hood, but a nice cowl hood looks great anyway
08-24-2007, 06:37 PM
#35
Re: Single-Plane Discussion
edelbrock makes the victor manifolds for EFI and they are priced well. I'd like to go single plane and run a 415-434 small block. so i can use 1206 ports and get great airflow for that motor.
a intake elbow that would allow TPI style TB and sensors would be awesome! may not clear stock hood, but a nice cowl hood looks great anyway
a intake elbow that would allow TPI style TB and sensors would be awesome! may not clear stock hood, but a nice cowl hood looks great anyway
08-24-2007, 08:29 PM
#36
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
I converted a Vic Jr over to EFI and have it sittiing on a shelf. I actually plan to use it on a LT1 motor now. Reason being is Im going with a Turbo setup and dont want to worry about distribution problems known with the lt1 and miniram intakes.
Im actually in the middle of making a 90* elbow and have a LS1 TB Im gonna be using. (will have pic's of elbow once My wife gets back from FLA)
Im actually in the middle of making a 90* elbow and have a LS1 TB Im gonna be using. (will have pic's of elbow once My wife gets back from FLA)
08-25-2007, 06:38 AM
#37
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
Do you have any worries about front-to-back air distribution with the elbow? I'm surprised, in all the examples that I've seen, that no one is using turning vanes in the elbow to even out the airflow. Maybe the large common plenum area in a single plane intake is enough to even things out?
08-25-2007, 09:03 AM
#38
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
Do you have any worries about front-to-back air distribution with the elbow? I'm surprised, in all the examples that I've seen, that no one is using turning vanes in the elbow to even out the airflow. Maybe the large common plenum area in a single plane intake is enough to even things out?
Ive never really heard of anyone having problems.
I cant see an Elbow with a LS1 style TB being any worse then a 4bbl style throttle body with a bonnet on top.
08-25-2007, 04:25 PM
#39
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Car: Z/28
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
Here is a link to these people that do some SERIOUS manifolds! Better have REALLY deep pockets to afford one!
http://www.hogansracingmanifolds.com/
http://www.hogansracingmanifolds.com/
09-04-2007, 12:09 AM
#40
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
I found a new single-plane intake and 4-barrel throttle body. (Well I dunno how new it is but I know it hasn't been mentioned in this thread.)
Its made by FAST. http://www.fuelairspark.com/Products...folds/over.asp
On ebay you can actually buy the intake, fuel rails, injectors, and throttle body together.
Honestly the throttle body looks a little "cheap" to me. Which is odd, I've always thought FAST made quality stuff, I know alot of LS1 guys like their intakes.
I think I'll stick with my plan to put together a Pro-Ram setup. I'm ready to buy my intake and throttle body so that I can have them shipped to S10Wildside (EFI Connection) so that they can confirm the IAC connector and the proper wire lengths need for my custom harness.
Brutalform's TB has the LT1 style IAC, but on Accel's website the one in the pics looks like it has TPI style IAC. (Thats the 1350 cfm) And of course, Accel has not responded to my emails.
Summit, Jegs, and Scoggin-Dickey all carry the TB and intake. Summit's TB are on backorder about a month. Jegs about 2 weeks. SD's site doesn't say their TB's are on back order, but they want $73 more for the intake!!! So I'm waiting on a reply from SD, to see if they are instock and if they will price match Summit on the intake. Prolly won't, but its worth a try.
Its made by FAST. http://www.fuelairspark.com/Products...folds/over.asp
On ebay you can actually buy the intake, fuel rails, injectors, and throttle body together.
Honestly the throttle body looks a little "cheap" to me. Which is odd, I've always thought FAST made quality stuff, I know alot of LS1 guys like their intakes.
I think I'll stick with my plan to put together a Pro-Ram setup. I'm ready to buy my intake and throttle body so that I can have them shipped to S10Wildside (EFI Connection) so that they can confirm the IAC connector and the proper wire lengths need for my custom harness.
Brutalform's TB has the LT1 style IAC, but on Accel's website the one in the pics looks like it has TPI style IAC. (Thats the 1350 cfm) And of course, Accel has not responded to my emails.
Summit, Jegs, and Scoggin-Dickey all carry the TB and intake. Summit's TB are on backorder about a month. Jegs about 2 weeks. SD's site doesn't say their TB's are on back order, but they want $73 more for the intake!!! So I'm waiting on a reply from SD, to see if they are instock and if they will price match Summit on the intake. Prolly won't, but its worth a try.
09-05-2007, 05:58 AM
#41
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
I'd like to jump in on this thread, mostly to just tag along and get some info.
I'm definitely going EFI soon, but haven't decided on an intake. It must fit under my stock IROC hood. I've been researching the miniram and HSR, and now just started looking into a single plane setup. Here's a pic of what I had in mind to possibly fit under the stock hood.
The piece is made by http://www.intakeelbows.com
He also does custom stuff too at a reasonable price.
I'm definitely going EFI soon, but haven't decided on an intake. It must fit under my stock IROC hood. I've been researching the miniram and HSR, and now just started looking into a single plane setup. Here's a pic of what I had in mind to possibly fit under the stock hood.
The piece is made by http://www.intakeelbows.com
He also does custom stuff too at a reasonable price.
I agree that a larger radius would have been better, but then it would not have cleard the hood.
A 4bbl tb would never have cleard the hood.
Personally think this 'carb hat' looks like it has the roof to close to the ports.
Last edited by JoBy; 09-05-2007 at 06:03 AM.
09-05-2007, 08:45 AM
#42
Re: Single-Plane Discussion
That is a pretty wild setup. If you were able to cram all that under the stock hood, that gives me a little more confidence.
I think I'm going to try to tackle a single plane setup this winter. I plan on using a Victor Jr. intake, a Wilson manifolds elbow, and their LS1 style throttle body.
I'm expecting to have to mill the elbow and the manifold some to get it to fit, and then probably send it out to get ported and modified for fuel injectors.
I think I'm going to try to tackle a single plane setup this winter. I plan on using a Victor Jr. intake, a Wilson manifolds elbow, and their LS1 style throttle body.
I'm expecting to have to mill the elbow and the manifold some to get it to fit, and then probably send it out to get ported and modified for fuel injectors.
09-05-2007, 01:28 PM
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09-05-2007, 01:48 PM
#44
Re: Single-Plane Discussion
Personally think this 'carb hat' looks like it has the roof to close to the ports.
Its also the same height as my standard 3" air cleaner. Last edited by Phatfiddler; 09-05-2007 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
09-07-2007, 12:19 AM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
Originally Posted by Kurt04
I'm ready to buy my intake and throttle body so that I can have them shipped to S10Wildside (EFI Connection) so that they can confirm the IAC connector and the proper wire lengths need for my custom harness.
Brutalform's TB has the LT1 style IAC, but on Accel's website the one in the pics looks like it has TPI style IAC. (Thats the 1350 cfm) And of course, Accel has not responded to my emails.
Summit, Jegs, and Scoggin-Dickey all carry the TB and intake. Summit's TB are on backorder about a month. Jegs about 2 weeks. SD's site doesn't say their TB's are on back order, but they want $73 more for the intake!!! So I'm waiting on a reply from SD, to see if they are instock and if they will price match Summit on the intake. Prolly won't, but its worth a try.
Brutalform's TB has the LT1 style IAC, but on Accel's website the one in the pics looks like it has TPI style IAC. (Thats the 1350 cfm) And of course, Accel has not responded to my emails.
Summit, Jegs, and Scoggin-Dickey all carry the TB and intake. Summit's TB are on backorder about a month. Jegs about 2 weeks. SD's site doesn't say their TB's are on back order, but they want $73 more for the intake!!! So I'm waiting on a reply from SD, to see if they are instock and if they will price match Summit on the intake. Prolly won't, but its worth a try.
09-08-2007, 09:37 PM
#46
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
09-09-2007, 12:22 AM
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
Originally Posted by zz17iroc
The TB is a 1200CFM uint from Accel and it comes with the TPS and IAT sensors installed, all you have to do is set the voltage on the TPS and change the wiring for the IAC so that it works properly. It comes with the flat style connecter and not the square one that's on your current TB.
Did you figure out the IAC? Which style connector did it have?
09-12-2007, 08:27 PM
#49
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
S10Wildside is correct.
Go to your local Junkyard and cut off an IAC connector from a 89 to 92 Berreta, Caviler, or Sunfire those cars use the same style connector as the 1200 CFM TB. Make sure you leave yourself at least a 8" pigtail on the connector. There is no need to modify the TPS connector, it plugs straight in.
09-13-2007, 03:44 PM
#50
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Re: Single-Plane Discussion
S10Wildside is correct.
Go to your local Junkyard and cut off an IAC connector from a 89 to 92 Berreta, Caviler, or Sunfire those cars use the same style connector as the 1200 CFM TB. Make sure you leave yourself at least a 8" pigtail on the connector. There is no need to modify the TPS connector, it plugs straight in.
Go to your local Junkyard and cut off an IAC connector from a 89 to 92 Berreta, Caviler, or Sunfire those cars use the same style connector as the 1200 CFM TB. Make sure you leave yourself at least a 8" pigtail on the connector. There is no need to modify the TPS connector, it plugs straight in.
