Alternative Port EFI IntakesThis board is for tech discussions and questions about aftermarket port EFI such as the HSR, MR, SR, BBK, FIRST, etc.
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The BBK intake holds the power band longer than the Super Ram and the Long Tube Runner Edelbrock setup.
When they avertised it at $399 about 3 years ago, gas was $1.39 gal. Gas went up and so did everything else including the materials to make and ship for the intake. So they had to go up on the price.
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this is how I see it... the super ram(which I have) is a pain in the *** to deal with. if you don't belive me. read thru the sticky. the HSR doesn't fit under a firebird or vett hood. no stb can be used that I know of. kills the bottom end. aftermarket fuel rails and FPR to deal with. any of the big tube runners are lame. (I've had ported up slp's) and don't do what I want. mini ram is a lot of money for a lt1 intake. over all I don't like any 3rd gen intake. so I have hope this one works out. if it shows some good power on a built 406 I'll pick one up. T ram doesn't exist lol am I missing any? 750 for a good intake is worth it to me.
trust me i know how much of a pain in the @ss dealing with the super ram for the 1st time but after the 2nd and 3rd time taking it apart it became a little easier
The BBK intake holds the power band longer than the Super Ram and the Long Tube Runner Edelbrock setup.
When they avertised it at $399 about 3 years ago, gas was $1.39 gal. Gas went up and so did everything else including the materials to make and ship for the intake. So they had to go up on the price.
That is probably a regional thing. They died around here long ago.
Same here. The cars are long dead here too. The last people to have them here are the purist's that have nice restored ones, or the ones that are driven by the typical sterotype we all know and love. And even those ones are few and far between. maybe If I was in fl, cali, or somewhere in the southwest things might be different. I agree, I feel that bbk didn't really tell the truth with the 50 hp gain. however, if It's all above 5k, then that means that bbk did SOMETHING. By removing the choking affect in the upper rpm band, that will allow people to use the bolt ons they have to their full potential. I can't wait for someone to get one and write a real world report on the product.
I think it's a pretty comparable setup to the SR. Although the SR runners have a lot more meat for porting and the plenum looks larger. My question is how the base is?? That is the final choke point in any system. Price wise I think it's very comparable to others and I think it looks pretty cool. And for just the 9hp peak to peak comparison that's like apples to oranges because the powerbands are totally different. I'll take a 300hp 5800rpm engine vs a 300hp 4800rpm engine any day of the week. With additional gearing and higher revs were talking much faster at the track.
runners look thin and the angle of the runners on the plenum looks light its alil tight. i like to see that they got something new of this type of fuel injection.
maybe u would take a 300hp 5800rpm engine vs a 300hp 4800rpm engine any day of the week.... but really? most cars are daily drivers... so u'll never see that 5800 peak hp motor EVER! the 300hp 4800rpm motor will be alot more fun to drive on the street. if your building a rever/track car then maybe this intake is for u but daily drivers will not like this intake and prob wont like the good chunk of loss hp/tq that u loose below 4200rpms. same prob with the miniram/stealth ram.... they move the power band up so there less fun to drive on the street. just depends on the type of car ur building.
we cant have everyone in a third gen runnin around on the streets in 2nd gear pulling 3800rpms at 40mph just to feel sum power
runners look thin and the angle of the runners on the plenum looks light its alil tight. i like to see that they got something new of this type of fuel injection.
maybe u would take a 300hp 5800rpm engine vs a 300hp 4800rpm engine any day of the week.... but really? most cars are daily drivers... so u'll never see that 5800 peak hp motor EVER! the 300hp 4800rpm motor will be alot more fun to drive on the street. if your building a rever/track car then maybe this intake is for u but daily drivers will not like this intake and prob wont like the good chunk of loss hp/tq that u loose below 4200rpms. same prob with the miniram/stealth ram.... they move the power band up so there less fun to drive on the street. just depends on the type of car ur building.
we cant have everyone in a third gen runnin around on the streets in 2nd gear pulling 3800rpms at 40mph just to feel sum power
Hrmm.. Interesting insight. You must never have been in a car I built.
A lot of guys on here miss the point. The Corvette guys are worse though. They talk about all the TORQUE of TPI.. They love superram's too..
So my idea of a street build makes 500hp at 6,000 RPM. 400 HP at 4,000 RPM, and 541 foot lbs of torque at 3,000 RPM. So you don't think that would be fun on the streat??
The "most cars are daily drivers" may hold true for die hards and 16 year olds. My daily driver is always within 3 years old and has a bumper to bumper warranty (and is stock)
So yeah this thread, a lot of speculation. Why don't one of you guys buy the intake and compare it? Had this been available last spring I would have tried it after the miniram and before the singleplane to get an idea of what it could do on a real motor. Who's up to the plate? I've tested enough intakes
Hrmm.. Interesting insight. You must never have been in a car I built.
A lot of guys on here miss the point. The Corvette guys are worse though. They talk about all the TORQUE of TPI.. They love superram's too..
So my idea of a street build makes 500hp at 6,000 RPM. 400 HP at 4,000 RPM, and 541 foot lbs of torque at 3,000 RPM. So you don't think that would be fun on the streat??
-- Joe
Exactly my thoughts too. And yes you always want to build an engine to suit your needs. But, if you build the engine and match the drivetrain correctly you can have a screamer from the beginning to end(to a point). Mine screams as soon as you hit the gas, until I shift at 6k, or at any rpm you choose. I didn't build my setup to rev stupid high and that is why I chose the SR intake setup. I wanted torque and shift at or below 6K. It makes around 525ftlb tq which launches the car in the 1.6 sixties. And it will break the ET street radials loose on the street with just a blip of the throttle.
Also don't forget Blackbird, that in my previous post that I mentioned the additional gearing. This aids in getting the car off as gearing is a torque multiplier and put the engine in it's powerband quicker. And if it's an auto car, using a torque converter(another torque multiplier) might be my first choice. Basically the torque loss from the intake will be negated by the gearing and/or converter. Still fun to drive on the street and faster on the track.
^^ That is a fast street combo.. 3.73's so it is great off the line.. Runs 118mph in the 1/4.
What cam ?
-- Joe
Thanks! Comp Extreme Energy 224/230 110LS +4 and using 1.7 rr's which puts total valve lift at .570"/.578" along with the overall valve events being more aggressive. It's probably pushing the limits of ramp speed, but I just wanted to try something different. Tuned the 730 puter myself and it's very streetable. Amazingly strong powerband throughout.
Thanks! Comp Extreme Energy 224/230 110LS +4 and using 1.7 rr's which puts total valve lift at .570"/.578" along with the overall valve events being more aggressive. It's probably pushing the limits of ramp speed, but I just wanted to try something different. Tuned the 730 puter myself and it's very streetable. Amazingly strong powerband throughout.
Very impressive times there and amazing MPH!
May I ask what your car weighs in at and also are those the eliminator AFR's 195's?
Hows your gas milage if your not stepping on it all the time?
Your combo sounds pretty much like the one I'am after and you have one of the fastest times I have seen with a SR on a 5.7-8L.
__________________ 89 T-Top GTA 5.7L T-56
ATI procharger D1sc, AS&M SS runners, accel base, 58mm TB, 42Ibs injectors, full exhaust, McLeod Street twin, Moser ford 9" with 3.70, 18" Boyd Smoothie II wheels 8"/10", DIY prom with code59.
Parts to be installed: AFR 195 eliminator heads, zz9 cam, Stainless works LT 1 3/4 headers, Mufflex 4" catback
Your setup ends up pulling similiar to a H&C LS1. Using 1.7 rrs and that cam really let it rev. I ran 11.7 with my 97 H&C C5 coupe and it dyno'd 430/400 rear hp/tq. Those AFR heads are awesome, my cam was (is still) a Comp Xer 224/224 114lsa .581 lift.
Are you using a Stealth Ram (SR) or Super Ram?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anesthes
A lot of guys on here miss the point. The Corvette guys are worse though. They talk about all the TORQUE of TPI.. They love superram's too..-- Joe
I agree and have laugh a little as you are correct about some Vette lovers overloving tq. You will never see me over enthused about a sports car that makes a bunch of tq below 3 rpms and quits making power above 5K rpms....great for my D Max Diesel truck to do that but not for a sports car. I had to ditch a TT setup I had because it made 700 ft/lbs of tq (boosting early at 1800 rpms) only to die off in power at 6K rpms with hp not even 600. The TT kit I have now builds boost at 2500 rpms but spools up to max by 3200 rpms...and will pull easily to 6500 rpms (850/810 rear hp/tq). If I am cruising I can down shift from a fuel economy gear (avg 22-25 mpg) to instantly into a rpm power band where I used to have enough power to blast 335/30 Michelins into smoke at 100 mph...luckily I switched to Toyo Proxe RAs and they hold the power at my low boost setting (650 hp)..in 4th gear of course.
I find a lot of people with L98s praising low end tq because that is all there is too brag about.....from what I have been seeing it appears that the HSR and FIRST are the best street systems with respectable track time and the Mini is the best for 1/4 ETs.
If the HSR would fit underneath my 91 Formula hood I would put it on....most likely will be going with the FIRST to avoid cutting my hood.
It would be nice if the BBK intake would flow enough to allow (with other parts) to pull to 6K rpms.
lol. shoulda just got the FIRST intake in the GP that ended last week. $825 for one HECK of a better system. Better flow, better looks, better quality, and PLENTY of room to port for you high-rpm guys.
May I ask what your car weighs in at and also are those the eliminator AFR's 195's?
Hows your gas milage if your not stepping on it all the time?
Your combo sounds pretty much like the one I'am after and you have one of the fastest times I have seen with a SR on a 5.7-8L.
IIRC, in track form it weighs around 3350-3400lb's with me in it. It is a stripper car(no power options), fiberglass SS style hood, skinnies up front, frnt swaybar removed, steering brace removed, strut brace removed, back seats removed, and spare removed. It sounds gutted, but it's not. Still have the A/C. And I usually drive the car like this cept the 17's go back on the front.
For the heads they are the 190's that I sent off along with the base and runners to GTP over in TX. He is magic for porting heads and intakes. Not really sure about the mileage, probably in the low 20's on the highway. It's a very streetable combo though, not at all radical.
Your setup ends up pulling similiar to a H&C LS1. Using 1.7 rrs and that cam really let it rev. I ran 11.7 with my 97 H&C C5 coupe and it dyno'd 430/400 rear hp/tq. Those AFR heads are awesome, my cam was (is still) a Comp Xer 224/224 114lsa .581 lift.
Are you using a Stealth Ram (SR) or Super Ram?
I use a TPIS base and SuperRam upper. They both have been fully ported. My corrected dyno numbers were 385/409 to the rear. Uncorrected numbers at the same time was like 409/440. It was cold out!!
Maybe summit is waiting for enough orders to stack up to make a production run.
Hope some people get a chance to compare it to their other intakes. If I ever get some time in the US, I might consider comparing it to a few things (planning to buy a chassis and engine dyno for my future EFI company).
__________________ -Jeremy- EFI Calibration Engineer, Director of R&D, Software Designer (Fuel Injection Technologies - dianpen.com) - still in China since Nov '04!!!
86 Z28 - rusty, tired, and in storage - 89 GTA with plans, but - also in storage now needs paint - badly, 79 Malibu classic with 91 L98, 4L60, 3.73
Nice numbers!
Who did the porting and do you mean they siamesed the runners or just hogged them out?
Craig of GTP out of Houston did his magic to the base, runners, and heads. The runners are not siamesed and they aren't really gutted. The base/runners have a nice contour and are matched up perfectly.
I am REALLY happy with my ported tpis intake manifold and unsiamesed ported (long-tube) edelbrock runners, on ported vette heads. (320/370's RW, auto.)
Sure I have money for another intake, but I'd like to see it first!!!
lol. shoulda just got the FIRST intake in the GP that ended last week. $825 for one HECK of a better system. Better flow, better looks, better quality, and PLENTY of room to port for you high-rpm guys.
silly bbk
The BBK intake is designed for a different power band then the First intake. The BBK has shorter runners and should make more power then the First above 5000 RPM. The First intake has large runners but they are as long as the TPI runers so its power band will be lower. The first would work well on a big cubic inch low RPM engine but not very well on a high RPM engine. They are really designed for two different applications.
__________________ 1988 Formula 5.7L/6sp 3.91 gears,10.6 cr, SLP cold air kit, MAS gutted, TPIS air foil, TPIS AFPR, Superram, MAC headers, Mac under drive pulleys, MAC cat back, Relocated MAT, E-Tec 200 heads, SDPC Vortec manifold, ZZ-409 cam.
Best ET 12.17
Best 60 FT 1.754
Best MPH 113.1
RWHP 369
RWTQ 399
I was interested in seeing its performance. They have no numbers to back it up. They can't even sell the damn thing. No evidence stating you will be able to fit a strut tower brace. You can pick up a stealthram for under $500 if you get good deals. This seems like a waste of time.
Now I am definitely sticking with my Superram. It may be a bitch to work on, but it works great and I already have it!
__________________ 1998 Trans Am: Mystic Blue w/Tan Leather, Automatic, T-Tops, Daily Driver.... 1990 Trans Am GTA: Black w/Black Leather, 5-Speed, T-Tops, Few Mods.... 1989 Trans Am TTA: White w/Tan Leather, Automatic, T-Tops, Garage Queen.... 1986 Chevy Camaro V6: Blue w/Black Cloth, Hardtop, 355-TPI Swap, 700R4, MS-II....
I am REALLY happy with my ported tpis intake manifold and unsiamesed ported (long-tube) edelbrock runners, on ported vette heads. (320/370's RW, auto.)
Sure I have money for another intake, but I'd like to see it first!!!
So, any pics of this new thing???
Here is Julie's dyno Graph with the Edelbrock long tube runner setup.
Pretty impressive for long tubes!!
I remember hearing that it is a special order item, so summit does not keep it in stock. That's why the shipping date keeps on getting pushed back. So by the time you order it that's when it will be ready to ship. But who knows, I could be completely wrong.
I remember hearing that it is a special order item, so summit does not keep it in stock. That's why the shipping date keeps on getting pushed back. So by the time you order it that's when it will be ready to ship. But who knows, I could be completely wrong.
I don't think so. I don't think they have been made.
I mean just go the BBK---they say nothing about the price of if it's in actual production. I would expect some big splash on the main page about it.
I emailed them to check. Nothing to do with Summit---its just not available yet.
"Hi Mike,
I believe that you are looking for part #5012 96-04 Mustang or #5014 Camaro/Vette however neither are available just yet but I will certainly contact you as soon as I hear a better ETA"
I don't know what's involved in manufaturing/testing and designing something like this---let alone the emissions legal testing.....still they should have put a later date. Not keep pushing back a release date
There's probably a couple factors involved which is why it keeps getting pushed back. They want to focus on products that are making them steady profit so they can stay alive during these tough times. Even though everyone on this board is interested in seeing the outcome of this intake, I bet they don't have very many orders which again turns it's focus on other products. I'm sure it will eventually happen, just have to keep waiting though.
I finally got to talk with someone in the loop at BBK. He was very candid that because this is such a technically complicated product to produce, they keep putting much simpler, much higher demand products in front of it (various mass air meters and throttle bodies for Mustangs and LS3s).
They are currently working on the fixtures to hold the castings for machining for the TPI manifold, and he says that they are now shooting for May production. It's coming, but it's coming slowly.
They could release a sample to one of the magazines. That's the least they could do.
So that everyone will call BBK and ask for a part they can't make? There is only 1 production prototype and a bunch of raw parts that they're trying to fixture properly to machine to fit the production prototype. If they ship it out to some magazine geeks, we'll NEVER see this thing.
I feel bad for BBK. There, I said it. Allegedly, the info on this was leaked way way WAY before BBK wanted to advertise it. And so they plod through the trials and tribulations of designing something to meet CARB specs, be easy to install, re-use some factory hardware, cost less than a grand AND a whole LOT of people complain, moan and nitpick something that those of us with TPI have been begging for for years...a new manifold. We get what we ask for and act like insolent little kids, whining about why a manifold for an obsolete engine isnt front burner stuff. How dare they make money to stay in business. Perhaps, if there hadn't been so much negative press by net-heroes, things might have progressed quicker. Additionally, perhaps the reason it looks similar to the SR is because that design works? Does anyone knock weiand for having a design that looks similar to a performer rpm airgap? I guess even at 28, Im old fashioned. If you dont have anything nice to say STFU. 90% of what people are saying is 'this thing sucks' followed closely by 'we dont have any data' We should applaud BBK and Bryan for what they've done for us. Believe me, their price isnt a get rich quick scheme...that idea would work better on...an engine that the car companies are still making, not something thats quickly becoming archaic.
I used to hang out on a custom knife forum. A knife maker was to come out of retirement to make a short run of custom knives (for $1500+ each) and everyone bitched about his delays and nitpicked his designs so much he scrapped the deal. THEN the net-warriors bashed him for not doing the project. For what? a bunch of overly judgemental babies? I dont blame that gentleman at all and I wouldnt blame BBK for saying 'screw you guys, we can make more money on the 5.0/MOD motor and LS1 crowd'
In summation, Its not right to bash a product you have no hard data on, in a manufacturers thread, nor is it correct to blast the product and suggest other peoples wares in the same thread...with NO proof. Critical facts are one thing, conjecture and thumb-sucking is something else entirely. Im sure BBK did their homework and decided there was a need, and that this product fits the bill...otherwise they wouldnt have invested MILLIONS for CARB certs, R&D, Advertising, and production in todays finicky economy. Perhaps this is BBK tpi manifold version 1. There are several Holley variants out there, maybe BBK was planning on addressing this manifolds shortcomings (in the same vein as FAST apparently did) Considering their reception, I doubt thats making them work any faster at wiping a bunch of runny noses. If you dont like it, dont buy it. If you want it put out faster, try saying something positive. I worked in customer service a long time and negative people tend to be put in the bottom third of the list, since theyre always unhappy no matter what. YEAH you could throw down a 5300 vortec, but plenty of guys are junking the tpi in their street rod for repop flathead fords...and paying a ton to do it and not complaining.
Seriously, some of you people should take a look at yourselves and your attitudes in public after someone tries to fill a void for an engine thats been dead for 15yrs or more to its own maker.
To the mods: If you delete this I understand, I intentionally did not name people to avoid making this personal. Plenty of people have defended BBK in this endeavor and kudos to them for it. There are some good, intelligent people here with a lot to offer, and they recognize what BBK was doing for US as a group...listen to them and learn from them
IIRC, in track form it weighs around 3350-3400lb's with me in it. It is a stripper car(no power options), fiberglass SS style hood, skinnies up front, frnt swaybar removed, steering brace removed, strut brace removed, back seats removed, and spare removed. It sounds gutted, but it's not. Still have the A/C. And I usually drive the car like this cept the 17's go back on the front. 
now needs paint - badly, 79 Malibu classic with 91 L98, 4L60, 3.73 
88 Firebird Formula 350- 85,XXX miles *G92* *Ws6*
