Alternative Port EFI IntakesThis board is for tech discussions and questions about aftermarket port EFI such as the HSR, MR, SR, BBK, FIRST, etc.
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the price is about right for a good intake these days. Still better option than superram and smog legal unlike HSR/MINIRAM although miniram NOW has EGR kit
the price is about right for a good intake these days. Still better option than superram and smog legal unlike HSR/MINIRAM although miniram NOW has EGR kit
the price is about right for a good intake these days. Still better option than superram and smog legal unlike HSR/MINIRAM although miniram NOW has EGR kit
that is true, although i am horribly unimpressed with the "turtle ram", it may be the best bet for those that choose to recombust their exhaust gas and keep those handy dandy state inspection stickers. Just thought the price change was interesting.
that is true, although i am horribly unimpressed with the "turtle ram", it may be the best bet for those that choose to recombust their exhaust gas and keep those handy dandy state inspection stickers. Just thought the price change was interesting.
why are you unimpressed?
As for price "change" as you call it----I'd say the first was estimated. Now that the R&D and all the production is sorted out they came up with an ACTUAL price. Don't bother me---I do not see anyother companies coming up with an intake designed for our cars at this price or less.
As for price "change" as you call it----I'd say the first was estimated. Now that the R&D and all the production is sorted out they came up with an ACTUAL price. Don't bother me---I do not see anyother companies coming up with an intake designed for our cars at this price or less.
Well, as I said previously, this may be a good choice for those who are going to remain smog legal. This intake resembles that SR (no longer in production, hows that for timing) in many ways (3 piece short runner design). I think BBK may have been good enough to make it easier to work on than the SR, but only time will tell.
I contacted BBK r&d when this intake started to look like it was actually going to happen. The answers i got from bbk were enough to make me question the quality of its build, or at least their customer service skills. At the time, and maybe still, we didn't have any dimensions, port sizes, flow numbers, or hardware info (fuel rails etc). I asked about the multiple sealing areas (gaskets) and the ability to hold boost - no answer. I asked about fitment, porting, and intake sizes (1204 05 and 06) ports - "It should fit performance heads and it will also be port-able if you feel like you nee to do some grinding on it."I sent a 2nd email asking again about port size. "What are 1206 ports?"
So as for the intake itself, until someone gets their hands on it and installs/ measures everything, all it looks like now is a cheaper and possibly better version of the SR. Which is good dont get me wrong. Especially since the SR is no more. But it sure would be great to see some individuality, some pioneering ingenuity. Not just a copy of whats already been done. BBK = SR MR = LT1. Id like to see something based off of a singe plane that would give us better distribution but would still utilize the upper plenum and TB.
If you are looking for a street car thats smog legal and not a serious build or boosted. probably a good choice. But i would DEFINATELY wait for someone else to get their hands dirty first. The lack of info with this intake is astonishing as is the customer relations, and that is really would i am not impressed with. As for the price 750 is reasonable for a 3 peice intake. The SR was around 1k. I think the 400 was there to get some interest goin b/c it would seem crazy to sell that at $400.
Hi folks:
I have been lurking and learning from the experts around here for a while. What I would like to know is what are the flow #'s from this intake. I amy have seen them somewhere before, but cannot either find or remember wdhat they may be. The FIRST, according to Ken, is around 235 which i believe is through the whole system. I may be wrong about that. What dwes the BBK flow, that may prove its' worth.
Thanks
.... this may be a good choice for those who are going to remain smog legal.
^ That is exactly why the price increased so substantially. I remember speaking to a Holley rep a few years back when the HSR was introduced, and he told me that the initial plan was to release the HSR w/EGR, but it would have cost Holley millions just to get the certification. Had that happened, and they went through with it, it wouldn't have been so cheap....
__________________ 1998 Trans Am: Mystic Blue w/Tan Leather, Automatic, T-Tops, Daily Driver.... 1990 Trans Am GTA: Black w/Black Leather, 5-Speed, T-Tops, Few Mods.... 1989 Trans Am TTA: White w/Tan Leather, Automatic, T-Tops, Garage Queen.... 1986 Chevy Camaro V6: Blue w/Black Cloth, Hardtop, 355-TPI Swap, 700R4, MS-II....
that is a good point! didnt even think about that. they may have kept the cost of the certification out until they decided to go for it. Probably a wise choice considering the other non smog-legal competition.
This intake is a day late and a dollar short. I have had two friends buy a 5.3L and trans combo at the local wrecking yard for 900 dollars. for 250 to 300 more a guy can get a new trans and motor that make much more HP.
This intake is a day late and a dollar short. I have had two friends buy a 5.3L and trans combo at the local wrecking yard for 900 dollars. for 250 to 300 more a guy can get a new trans and motor that make much more HP.
Like almost everyone I am really interested in seeing someone (maybe one of the performance magazines?) run one of these and see what we really have before I plunk down $800.00.
However, not everyone is interested in engine swaps or installing a MR/HSR on their 3rd gen. As several people have mentioned BBK has invested a lot of money to put together a product that could benifit some of us, I don't think it is the best interest of our hobby to start running them down on this web site. Hopefully this will be a great product that some of us can use to make more power.
They should have had a group buy for all that waited soooo long for something that kept getting delayed and pushed back. Now they'll be sitting on alot of manifolds that will never sell that well.
Seems like a great manifold and I would bought one in a second if it was anything close to 500.00. But for the price they are asking I rather buy big tube runners and a decent TPI manifold set up for the same price.
I understand they are trying to recoup cost, but in todays hard times I think it would been better if they made there money on quanity sales. Think about the dodge challenger, great car but bad timing. It would have been the bomb if released the same time the mustang came out....
Like almost everyone I am really interested in seeing someone (maybe one of the performance magazines?) run one of these and see what we really have before I plunk down $800.00.
However, not everyone is interested in engine swaps or installing a MR/HSR on their 3rd gen. As several people have mentioned BBK has invested a lot of money to put together a product that could benifit some of us, I don't think it is the best interest of our hobby to start running them down on this web site. Hopefully this will be a great product that some of us can use to make more power.
Like almost everyone I am really interested in seeing someone (maybe one of the performance magazines?) run one of these and see what we really have before I plunk down $800.00.
However, not everyone is interested in engine swaps or installing a MR/HSR on their 3rd gen. As several people have mentioned BBK has invested a lot of money to put together a product that could benifit some of us, I don't think it is the best interest of our hobby to start running them down on this web site. Hopefully this will be a great product that some of us can use to make more power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vindeezl
Keyword SOME
Day late and many dollars too high
wheres this KEYWORD of yours? I am tired but I don't see it.
Anyways good post 86 Money Pit--we have alot of complainers here....fine don't buy it.
I'd rather see more 3rd gen specific parts come to market then NONE.
Is the BBK perfect and for everyone? No
Does it look like they have a design close the SR? Sure--doesn't bother me.
FIRST is what $300 more?
So you can buy a 5.3L in junkyward for $900--big deal. Its used---you need alot of parts and knoweledge to swap it over your self and you'd still have to buy some higher performance aftermarket stuff.
TPI is the biggest choke point in my setup. I fail to see why the BBK won't open that up alot.
the BBK should be better than the stock intake.
but the runners have no room to open them up more if you need to.
i wonder how it compares with a ported stock intake with aftermarket runners.
if it gets CARB certification, it may give the Cali guys an alternative.
if they had priced it closer to $500.00, i would have given it serious consideration, but add a throttle body to the price and your at what a FIRST goes for.
First with TB/runners/base was on sale for 825 plus shipping in the recent GP. Bad *** TPI setup there for a great unbeatable price. Surprised not many people do that build
I think a base like the TPIS Big Mouth and Large tube runners will work as well and still keep the original look. I have already port matched the plenum to my siamesed runners if I open them up to match and install the TPIS Bigmouth manifold that should atleast help as much as the BBK setup.
its been proven on here many times if you siamese the runners, you'll get a higher rpm power band much similar to superram or up to a single plane depending on how much you port the runners. Shorter the runner the more rpm you can support
So if you want superram/bbk type performance of that shorter runner, just siamese your runners. You'll have TPI look with BBK type performance or better if you siamese it more. To get more flow you'll have to port the base alot. There are threads on this to get near 300 cfm out of stock base, althought 250-260 will get you a ton of power n/a so you dont have to get too crazy
Whether its expensive or not, it still nice to see new parts being developed for TPI cars. When a company spends that kind of money developing a product for a design that hasn't been produced since 1992, its a good thing. These machines must be more popular than we thought.
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1970 SS396 Chevelle with a 580 BBC
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These machines must be more popular than we thought.
Dude that is an understatement. Do you know how many times I have folks tell me how much they loved the third gens. A whole lot. These cars are still popular, some still look great, just brouse this board. To me they are awesome.
Dude that is an understatement. Do you know how many times I have folks tell me how much they loved the third gens. A whole lot. These cars are still popular, some still look great, just brouse this board. To me they are awesome.
That is probably a regional thing. They died around here long ago.
You also have to understand, BBK didn't make the manifold for fbody's. They made it for small block chevy's. There is a large market for hot rodders putting TPI engines in other cars, 30s fords for example.
as for the bbk intake.
when i was down at summit earlier this week they said they do plan to stock it but as of right now bbk has sent them no info on it other then when they think the 1st shipping date will be.
after looking at the dyno numbers for the stock car they tested it on.
it really doesn't make much more peak power then stock only 9 hp but i just keeps the power band up a little longer .
is 9 hp worth 750 bucks dont really think so on a street car but thats just me .
edit " i did a simulation in drag 2003 and it can knock a 2 tenths of a second off buy holding the power band a little longer and by lowering some of the un needed low end that just causes wheel spin anyway
i guess is going from a 14.01 car down to a 13.9 car worth 750 im still not sure my self "
instead of saying 50 more hp over stock when really its less then 10
really they should say 50 more hp above 5000 rpm.
as for what i wish they would have done instead
i just wish a company would produce the gm Siamesed runners from the 25th Anny cars that never came out. gm got 270 hp out of them 30 more then stock with just runners and heavily ported plenum to match
there pretty much the same as what dyno don and Kevin 91 have done by modifying slps
Last edited by Azrael91966669; 01-08-2009 at 07:53 AM.
as for the bbk intake.
when i was down at summit earlier this week they said they do plan to stock it but as of right now bbk has sent them no info on it other then when they think the 1st shipping date will be.
after looking at the dyno numbers for the stock car they tested it on.
it really doesn't make much more peak power then stock only 9 hp but i just keeps the power band up a little longer .
is 9 hp worth 750 bucks dont really think so on a street car but thats just me .
edit " i did a simulation in drag 2003 and it can knock a 2 tenths of a second off buy holding the power band a little longer and by lowering some of the un needed low end that just causes wheel spin anyway
i guess is going from a 14.01 car down to a 13.9 car worth 750 im still not sure my self "
instead of saying 50 more hp over stock when really its less then 10
really they should say 50 more hp above 5000 rpm.
as for what i wish they would have done instead
i just wish a company would produce the gm Siamesed runners from the 25th Anny cars that never came out. gm got 270 hp out of them 30 more then stock with just runners and heavily ported plenum to match
there pretty much the same as what dyno don and Kevin 91 have done by modifying slps
I would love to see the 25th siamesed runners as to how they differ from SLPs runners. I know untouched the SLPs are larger by .130" and .625" shorter than stock. With a ported plenum they are better than stock but the factory manifold also needs plenty of work or better still a better manifold to fully realize the potential of the upper mods. I believe GM was still leaving a lot on the table (as usual at the time) with the 25th project.
does it use a stock TPI base? looks like a stock setup but just a diff short runner/plenum. just like the SR. and it looks like the angle is really radical to get into the runners from the plenum and doesnt look like it can be opened up alot
as i stated on the 2nd post of this thread its ugly as sin but im sure they will sell a good bit of them just bc its new and looks better than trying to work a stock TPI. but untill i see specs it looks like nothing special. see if it flows like my HSR
Obviously, this intake is not designed for stock motors, but we always do our initial testing on cars that are as stock as possible to ensure that fitment will be correct.
Now before I continue, I would like to make sure that everyone reading this understands the difference between PEAK dyno #'s and OFF-PEAK.
If you don't know the difference, please ask so I can explain it. It's important to know the difference when looking at dyno #'s to get a full understanding of what the "real" gains are, which are usually in the OFF PEAK portion of the charts.
OFF-PEAK PERFORMANCE-
With the BBK intake, the engine did not struggle until 5,500 where I stopped the runs. From 3,500 RPM the BBK kept pulling as the stock unit dropped off. @ 5,000 RPM (which is the highest RPM I can compare the proto to the stock unit) there was a gain of 52 Ft-lbs, and 50 H.P.
PEAK PERFORMANCE.
I found that the PEAK H.P. was 9 H.P. greater while the peak TQ was down 16ft-lbs which is very typical for a short runner intake on a stock motor.
On the very bottom end (1,500-2,500) I would expect that a STOCK engine could take a 15 -20 H.P./ 20 Ft-lb hit with this type of intake, where a built motor would be able to take advantage of the short(ish) runner design and make more power and torque than stock down in the low end.
Clearly, a heads/cam, blower, or stroker motor would eliminate the low end loss and make even more mid range and top end gains than what is posted here, but again, this is the initial testing.
Why are you people trippin over the price? Alot of you has spent more than that buying a complete Super Ram set up for $1200, Mini Ram $1400, $1000 First set up and HSR $900 including throttle body and other parts to make it work. Oh yea I forgot those other set up needed throttle bodies too! That's another $300. So what is the big deal on the price? From what little information we had gotten it will at least out perform the Super Ram and maybe the HSR. Oh by the way, it uses the stock fuel rails and all other stock hardware. It also has provision for an EGR in the stock location.
So if you dont have the resorces to weld up a manifold or simease SLP runners, and want to try and keep it smog legal well the may be the best way to go. Think about it! Most of us has spent more than $750 on the setups we have on our cars now. If you don't believe me, check your receipts or ask around.
Last edited by VincentZ28; 01-11-2009 at 04:16 AM.
the issue with the price is they said 399 a few years ago
and most of there other intakes are priced alot less unless they come with throttle body and in comparison the mustang intake they make is alot cheaper and cooler looking .
i understand its cheaper then then mini ram and super ram with base.
but really it cost the same as the super ram plenum and runners and the super ram makes more then 9 extra peak hp on a stock engine
also edelbrock manifold/runner set up $720 and say 17 to 20 peak over stock
i understand overall power band vs peak but if it only makes 9 extra over the "ultra restrictive" stock tpi unit that cant even let a stock 350 breath so id assume you would see alot more then 9 peak hp if the intake was really any good unless it also is choking a stock 350 down
i mean the k@n cai on my lt1 wagon added 13 peak hp at the wheels
and it doesn't cost 750 bucks
dont get me wrong cause i like seeing new things come out for these cars but 750 bucks is still alot of money in my book and it doesn't seem like that much of a gain
i guess stock tpi isnt that much of restriction in comparison
Last edited by Azrael91966669; 01-11-2009 at 10:49 AM.
Red 1991 RS ,C&C t-tops,full leather interior,145 speedo ,brakes 4 wheel PBR disc 12' up front 11.9 rear,engine 90 lb9 sd tpi 1.6 full roller rockers crank underdrive pulley,trans 4l60 with b&m shift kit,alloy driveshaft,rear ten bolt auburn posi 3.23 gears,Edelbrock TES with Flowmaster 80 series muffler,1le springs ,soild 36mm front and 24 mm rear swaybars 
that is a good point! didnt even think about that. they may have kept the cost of the certification out until they decided to go for it. Probably a wise choice considering the other non smog-legal competition. 
