CaysE

Well, I finally did the headliner repair using the tech article on this site (click here ), and I learned a couple things that a first-timer might miss or learn along the way, to add to the article.

REMOVING THE HEADLINER
Removal is pretty straightforward, albeit pretty messy. When you have a sagging headliner, that means the foam backing has deteriorated, so you're gonna end up with a lot of little pieces of foam and fiberglass (more on this later) all over the car. But before we get that far, the first issue is removing the trim and panels. In all honesty, to get the headliner off, you have to remove about 90% of the body panels in your car. This piece keeps that piece in place, and that piece is screwed on top of the other piece, etc etc etc. The headliner seems to be the first piece that goes into the interior during manufacturing, I guess. So be prepared to have panels all over your working area (or car if you don't have anywhere to keep them, like me) for a couple of days. I'm going to take this opportunity to clean and armour-all the pieces today since they're all out.
Specifically, you have to be careful with a couple pieces: the trim pieces that run along the tops of the doors, the huge panel that covers the driver's-side rear wheel-well, and the front headliner clips. And for one reason: you're going to break some clips (unless you're REALLY careful). The door trim pieces should slide backwards, not pop out (broke a couple there ), as well as the large rear panel (also slides out somehow. this one I can't even get back in yet). The headliner board DOES pop out, however; you just have to be careful with it. I broke one clip, but it wasn't a big deal cause it wasn't the middle clip and the sun visors will secure the ends.
I'll eventually get new clips for everything, I just don't want to deal with every single thing at once here, as I'm sure you won't want to, either, if this is your daily driver.
Also, use the rear hatch to get the board in and out. It's probably the only place to really fit it through without taking your seats out.

REPAIR
As far as repair, the tech article does a good job. I found everything I needed fairly easily (the smaller Home Depots don't carry 3M Super 77, but most do). Get 2 cans of this; I had to go back for a second one. The fiberglass cloth is available at Home Depot, also, so that cuts out AutoZone (one less store to drive to). I bought a yard and a half of headliner fabric from Jo-Ann Fabrics, which was just the right fit, I think. And so you know, these fabrics come in 54 inch widths, so that measurement isn't square yards. It's 1.5yds x 54ins
Only 2 issues here: First, the headliner backing is made of FIBERGLASS. That means when you have to get all the old foam and glue off of it, DON'T just rub it all off with your hands! I learned this the hard way. If you don't understand, go ahead and try it for 10 minutes. Instead, use an old shirt to take all the crap off and take your time with it. You want to make sure you're not applying the new headliner fabric to anything loose. And second, the adhesive seems to be anaerobic, meaning it only cures in the absence of air. The article recommends spraying the entire backside of the headliner board to make it stronger, but even overnight, it was still tacky in areas where I didn't put cloth on top of the glue. I'm still not sure if spraying the whole thing is worth it, as I could end up with a headliner board glued to my car the next time I have to do this. Also, it seems to work best in warmer temperatures (~80 degrees). As I worked into the night, it seemed to take significantly longer to hold the fabric as the temp went down.
One last thing: If you do decide to spray the entire backside, trying to apply the headliner fabric is going to be difficult, as the backside will stick to everything it touches. I used two plastic lawn chairs to lay the board on, with minimal sticking problems.

INSTALLATION
Well, this is by the book, really. The headliner is basically supported by two things: the clips in front and the seatbelt assembly covers in the back. Install the clips in front first, attach the seatbelt covers in the back, and it'll hold while you put the rest of the trim back on.

And that's that. All in all, the end result is great, and you'll be proud to say you did it yourself. It's definitely work to do this, and certainly justifies the $200 upholstry places charge for this job. So you've got a good deal going if you tackle this project, 160 bucks right in your pocket. $$ $$

Makai

I did my headliner myself as well. If you very carefully pop out those clips (use an awl) along the top of the window pillars, and pop them into the pillar itself, then put the sliding pillar back up it's much easier.
(hope that sounds right)

One thing I think I did wrong, (cuz i listened to my bf who read off the directions) Was applying the glue. I took a broom to all the old foam backing, and scrubbed it off. We did this outside, and installed it right away. Maybe I should have let it completely dry before I installed it. Or maybe I should've used the whole entire can. The headliner is pulling away from the panel already.
But not enough to rub on my head
Since I'm changing my interior color to gray, I'll probably do the headliner again. Now that I know what i'm doing, it was fun!

CaysE

Cool, thanks for the awl idea. I have tried pliers to get those clips out of the frame but they don't budge. I'll give that a try. As far as your headliner sagging, you definitely need to make this like a three day project, cause the glue does have to dry. And use like a can and a half. And then some more. When I wrapped the ends of the fabric to the backside of the headliner board, I sprayed gobs of adhesive at the edges of the fabric, to secure it to the board real good. I'm a little OCD about it, but it hasn't sagged yet.

As a sidenote, I noticed the new small bottles of Super 77 that 3M released recently say "not recommended for headliners" on the label. Hmmmm... so what the heck else is there?

Makai

Yeah, just reach up inside, theres a tab there on that clip, bent it inwards i think, you'll see which way it bends. Ya kinda need 2 hands, once you have that tab bent in pull the clip out with a pair of pliers, then slide it in the pillar, and pop it on, it just snaps in.

Note: The round tab by the windshield operates a little differently, just twist it into the pillar, line em up and pop them in, it took like 2 minutes once i had the tabs out.

Let me know how ya made out.

Thanx for the advice about the glue, I'll buy 2 cans next time, besides, i'm probably gonna change the headliner to gray anyway, think i could sell the beige? It's mint, and already has the holes cut out for the seatbelts and stuff. I just hope the ends will come unglued without ripping the liner.

89V6FBIRD

The 3M Interior Trim Adhesive works a LOT better than Super 77. It dries faster and requires less work. It holds up in 110 + degree heat and keeps the new headliner stuck to the fiberglass. I've had this for about a year now, tried Super 77 at first, but then I bought a can of Trim Adhesive and the headliner hasn't fallen since.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

To clean all that headliner foam off from the fiberglass, the best thing to use is a plastic bristle brush. It'll brush right off and leave just the fiberglass. It works great and doesn't take long.

TomP

CaysE, thanks for the info on the fabric! I'm pretty sure there's a JoAnn fabric somewhere on Route 1 (NJ), I'll have to hunt that stuff down!

Jim, you mean a brush like a toilet brush or dishwashing brush? Those kind of bristles?

guza

Well I just completed my headliner also. Try going to Hancock Fabrics. The are about $3 per yard cheaper and the ones in St. Louis MO carry about 9 colors (even the Doeskin that I needed) .

They also steered me to 3M #74. This is designed for Foam and headliner material. Overall the job went easy. Make sure you have help or long arms.
I also did the sail panels, I hope I was supposed to remove the white foam from these!

Now could someone explain how I recover the sun visors?

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Exactly. The first time I did it I used a little plastic bristle brush that I bought in the cleaning section at Wal Mart. The next time I did it I used the brush that I scrub my tires with. It works perfectly.

Makai

i just used a broom, and swept it all away

okfoz

I actually used a wire brush and had no problem, it was recommended by a Upholstery shop...

As for the 3M 77, you would have been better off with the 3M 90, or headliner spray adhesive. the 3M 77 is intended to be placed and moved, the 90 is more permanent. Headliner adhesive spray is for slightly higher temperature applications, and where you have real problems, like in the inside corners of the T-top headliner you might even consider a hot glue gun. You have to get higher temp hot glue than the regular stuff tho.

hope this helps

John

CaysE

The 3M 90 also says to not use it on headliner material. I'll check out 74, though, if the headliner starts coming off. I noticed alittle corner coming off a bit (DAMMITMOTHEREFFERBIZNAG$^!&*). These things are so much work to get right, and I don't want to take it out again. But really, the end product is awesome.

For the sail panels, you take the foam off the areas where the speaker holes are, not the entire thing. I'm not entirely sure how... I guess you just pull the foam off. I have yet to do this.

And for the visors, you're gonna need a sewing machine. You basically cut out the proper shape of the visor, leaving about a half inch to 3/4 inch edge on the sides and the edge that's closest to you (or points down when in use). You tuck the edges under themselves and then sew it all together all the way around. Take a close look at what you have in your car, you'll get it pretty easily. I haven't had access to a digital camera, but when I do the visors and sails, hopefully I'll have some pics to post, and do my own updated tutorial.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

I use whatever 3M adhesive is in the automotive section of wal mart. It's the one with the guy laying **** inside of his Kidnapper van. If you read closely, it mumbles something about not using it on certain foams, then a few lines down says that it works great on headliners. In any case, I've done a few headliners with it and none have fallen yet.

guza

Don't take the foam off of the material when doing the sail panels. I didn't, the speakers sound fine and it looks great. I was wondering more about the White Scotch Brite type foam that was original. I removed it, not the headliner foam.

Anybody got tips on the sun visors yet?

CaysE

I'm stil not sure what you meant by the white foam stuff. The material I bought from Joann Fabrics didn't come with anything white on it. Just the gray backing foam and black thin fabric on top.

As for the glue, I'm gonna agree with those that have said this; DON'T use 3M Super 77. I am starting to get some slight sagging on the left and right edges where the board bends downward to meet the windows. 3M makes a spray adhesive specifically designed for installing headliner material, so get that. Hi-Strength 90 and FoamFast 74 may do a better job than Super 77, but each of these still has a lower heat resistance than 3M Headliner Spray. I have yet to find a place that carries it around here, so you may have to order it from somewhere. I'll do a little searching this week to see if I can't find it.

uk89camaro

Thanks for the tips..they came in really handy doing my fabric.

here's a few pictures :

Taking the trim off from above the doors was the most difficult..I couldn't figure how to slide the whole piece backwards, as the curve at the top of the windscreen stopped it sliding back. I prised the piece off really gently, and then used a screwdriver to prise the clips out of the roof rail. That way, you can slide the clips back into the plastic trim and push the trim back up.

I didn't take out the large plastic panels covering the rear wheel arches, just the sail panel, and the plastic trim that covers the rear roof section.

I had to make some repairs to the seatbelt area of the board (it's not easy in the UK to pick up a junkyard headliner board!), and I had some difficulty refitting this area as my fibre-glass mend didn't fit the curvature correctly. It was "persuaded" into place.

I stripped the old foam backing using a stiff hand brush, and glued the new fabric on (from Year 1) using a floor carpet adhesive. Seems to have worked well.

uk89camaro

Old headliner coming out

uk89camaro

glass fibre repair

uk89camaro

scrub off the old foam backing

uk89camaro

spray glue, and roll on the new fabric

uk89camaro

Insert front first...please note zero busted clips!

CaysE

Nice work uk89camaro. I couldn't have illustrated it better myself. Kudos on the unbroken clips. Let us know how that carpet glue holds up.

uk89camaro

The carpet glue is NEVER going to let go! It's designed for foam backed carpet. I tested a small piece prior to fixing the main fabric down, left it for day, and nearly ripped the headliner board apart trying to get the test piece off!

many thanks for your guidance.:hail:

89Irocz23

I have a question about the headliner. I have the cars and concept t tops. I need new headliner and I pulled mine down and it looked like the board that the headliner material goes on. It all fell apart so I can reuse that board or whatever it is. Where can i get a new one of these? Its from cars and concepts so its a lil bit different I think then a normal 3rd gen head liner.

CaysE

If you're talking about the headliner board itself, and it's not usable, you'll have to either find one at a junkyard or talk to an auto upholstry shop. You can also try a GM dealership, but I'm sure they'll charge you more. One thing you could do is talk to the guys in the car audio message board and ask them if it's possible to repair the headliner board using stiff fiberglass glue that they use to make sub-boxes. Unless your headliner board is in a hundred pieces, you can probably still fix it.

MDv6man

Question for the headliner guys -- when you finished taking off the old foam, did the fabric side of your headliner still have a greenish hue to it? I am getting to do mine AGAIN and want to make sure I'm stripping enough stuff off. I know the side that faces the car is a goldish tan, should the other side be the same color?

okfoz

I take a wire brush to the board, it does not seem to harm it. and get as much foam fuzz off as I can. this seems to help.

make sure you get a high temp spary adhseive, most are not and will cause the headliner to fall after some time...

John

CaysE

MDv6man: you should get the fabric side the same tan color as much as possible. The green crap is old glue still on the board; if you try to put new headliner material on that, it will come undone in a matter of weeks.

Agreed on the high-temp spray adhesive. Mine has started to sag a bit... I guess it'll have to be redone. Since getting in my accident, though, I now have a t-top Camaro, and will be getting around to that headliner in the spring. If anyone in my area needs a headliner, I'll sell the hard-top one pretty cheap, just send me an offer. The thing is too big to ship cheaply, so a pick-up is preferred.

I'll post up my t-top results when I get to them as well. Hopefully I'll do the sail panels and sunvisors, as well.

HamSpiced

any pics of a repaired headliner on a car with t-tops?

davecamaro

you see the holes for the seatbelts?
how do you get the headliner out with out cutting that?
how can you fit the seatbelt threw that? unless u totally take your seatbelt apart.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

The headliner is slotted. That's why they have the plastic covers!

MdFormula350

i never had to replace one yet, but if i do i will take your lessons in acount..

CaysE

hamspiced: none yet from here, but I will try to get some pics when I get it done. Unfortunately it won't be for a little while. I'm sick and it's cold out.

davecamaro: pull that plastic cover piece off the headliner, it should pop right off. The headliner board is slotted so you can slide the belt through it.

HamSpiced

Cayse: thankyou greatly.

CaysE

You're welcome, hamspiced.

Just to clear up the adhesive issue, you MUST use some type of high-temperature spray glue, so that it won't melt in the summer from the heat of the sun on the roof, causing the headliner to sag again. 3M makes a specific spray just for this purpose, but it's a little difficult to find. You can take a look through 3M's site to find the appropriate adhesive at http://www.3m.com/us/auto_marine_aero/aad/catalog/

It seems they recently changed some things around with their products and their site, so they may have changed the name of the spray for headliner fabric.

This spring I'm going to do a t-top headliner and hopefully the visors and sail panels. I will do my best to get pictures, but I'm lacking in the digital camera area. We'll see what happens.

hellfire

UK89CMARO: that is some thick looking fabric, it looks heavy, how is it holding up. Has anyone tried to apply foam again before putting the fabric back on the headliner? I want my headliner to look as original as possible.

uk89camaro

Fabric came with foam pre-attached. I got it pre-cut with sailboards from year-1. Holding up just fine, using trusty carpet spray glue. trust me, it aint gonna fall down! You've got to make sure you clean the old crud off, and apply the glue fairly heavily in small sections at a time. The glue doesn't bleed through the foam.

hellfire

ok, i saw something like that offered from Eastwood for 29.99

where did you get the carpet adhesive. from a home improvement store?

redraif

Mine t-top version broke in half and the edges were breaking off and flaking like crazy, so I went to GM, in 93. GM discoed the t-top boards. I got a fiberglass, yes fiberglass, not the plastic ones that year one sells... and had it recovered.

T-top recovering is easier in some ways harder in others. There is less chance of sagging, but its way harder to cut since the t-top holes are there. At the holes...You have to cut it long enough to be able to wrap around the board and onto the back side. On the 90degree curves...once you apply to the side you see and go to glue it to the backside, you have to cut legs. Otherwise the curve is too sharp and will over stretch the material and it will pull up. So you cut legs and spread them out like fingers on the board. Then you get another scrap piece and glue over them...

I used 3M trim and headliner adhesive. Spray both sides, wait till tacky and press together...I got the shop to redo the visors, no sewing machine

Hancock is great price and selection wise...

On the white foam on the sail panels. this is separate from the headliner material...mine was a light green. I left mine on when I recovered the sailpanels...Noe sure what is was for, but its there for a reason!

89cmrodriver

when i took my headliner out i took all the care possible into pulling it out, and then ripped it on the seatbelt....lol me and my bad luck

jcurrieirocz

what i think "CaysE" is trying to say, is to use "fiberglass clear resin" and maybe some "fiberglass matting cloth" too if you need more support...this is what im ganna try,,,,I still have lots left from makeing my sub box. It will toughin up that board then after it drys use the headliner glue or carpet glue and put your material over it,,,,useing a mutiple cut "fingers" method in the inside corners like someone else metioned!

xChRiSx

why do you have to be so careful with the headliner fabric? i've already ripped mine out because it was sagging so low it got annoying. was that a bad thing to do?

xChRiSx

Is the fabric at hancock fabrics not the original thin stuff? i dont mind a thicker fabric, i just need to know what all im buying because i only pulled one kind of fabric down and then i brushed the nasty stuff off, but this thread mentions fiberglass cloth an stuff.. I cant get the big plastic thing in the middle of my roof off, i took out the two screws in the dome light part, but there are more screws holding it in that i can't access, unless maybe i tore off the leather pouch from the roof...Anyone know how to pull that thing off?

redraif

No its not bad that you did that. You have to be careful with the headliner board to keep it from craking or breaking.

The only time you have to be careful with the material is when you are removing it to recover. Basically you have to be sure all of the old foam is off, so the new stuff with get a nice firm hold on teh headboard and not just the old foam. If you don't clean off the old foam the new stuff will let go and you are back to a saggy headliner again.

redraif

Hancock has the correct foam backed material. It is the same as the stuff professionals use to recover them. The fabric you pulled down was the same as what the factory had in it. See over time that foam breaks down and when you pull off the material is breaks up like dust. It will seem like there was no foam and just the surface material, but it did have foam when it was new. The stuff Hancock has is correct!

It sounds like you have an overhead console. You have to take off the cover where the light bulb is and take out the screws like you did. Then the whole unit slides forward and off the factory mounts. It actually hooks on the mounts versus being held in by actual screws. Don't take the vinyl pouch down it will ruin it. Does you overhead console look like this?

xChRiSx

yep i have that cover, figured out how to get it off. thanks. I didnt have to take off ym dome light cover because i dont have one lol. I can't find a car with a console like mine in the junkyard either. they all have just a dome light and the covers arent the same. i posted the same question 3 diff. places because i thought i wasnt getting any replies, but i just had the stuff mailing to the wrong address

86transamws6

i knew it was time to fix the sagging headliner when i was givin it to my ex in the back seat and i kept hittin my head on the fabric causing the spongy stuff to fall all over me

CaysE

thanks for the visual. i bet your back itched from that foam for a few days. lol

it's getting warmer out, and a friend of mine has a digital camera, so I'll be tackling the t-top headliner soon! pictures the entire way through!

CaysE

Update: I've done some research and contacted 3M's automotive department. The correct aerosol adhesive to use for headliner material is Fast Tack Trim Adhesive. The reason most adhesives fail is that the roof becomes very hot during the summer months, usually far above the actual temperature outside if in the sun. This causes the glue to melt (softening point) and the headliner to sag. Fast Tack Trim Adhesive has a softening point of 175 degrees Farenheit, more than enough for most people. HUNT THIS STUFF DOWN!!!

jconrad

Hey guys!
Just got done removing my sagging headliner. It just started falling down all of the sudden. It seemed to me that it started after all this rain we've been having. So I think I might have a leak in the rear hatch seal area.
Anyway, I'm not sure if anyone has posted this or not, but when I went to take out the long door trim pieces, I just gently popped out the 2 bottom christmas tree clips, and then slid it back, just like you all said. The difference was that when I went to put it back up, I just used a thin flat head screwdriver in the center of the little white clip, to have them come out. I then put them onto the door trim panel, and then popped the whole piece right back in.
The other thing that I did not see on the post, is that when I was taking the front out, all I did was slide the front over to the right, and then it just basically fell out. LOL
If this is redundant, then my apologies, but I really didn't see anyone mention this.
Now to my question (as always). Does anyone know of a replacement pad that I could get for mine? Maybe something made of plastic or foam covered with vinyl? I am just not a big fan of the fabric on the ceiling.