rocky383

I have a few questions about car painting options.

1. Baked on.

I know this helps durability, but won't the heat of the sun bake the paint just as well?

2. "It's going to cost you twice as much to get you car painted a different color than the original." (Mine is gray now and I want it black or yellow.)

Should it cost twice as much for this?

3. Number of paint and clearcoat layers.

How many of each layer is best? How much is overkill?

4. What is the most $$$ I should pay for a great paint job?

Thanks

:hail:IROC-Z

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

The problem with "good" paint is that it's as ambiguous as a "fast" car. The fact that some people here are impressed by Maaco proves that not everybody has the same standards. I wouldn't let Maaco paint my lawn mower.

Anyway...

1. Baked on. Big deal. Paint dries with or without heat, and the new urethane paints are very, very durable.

2. To get the color changed without making it look like a hack-job, ALL visible surfaces must be painted, which means that you've got to take 1/2 of the car apart, including the engine bay & undercarrage if you want it done right. The extra money you pay is in labor for all of this work.

3. Paint and clearcoat layers can be debated for ages. On a regular paint job my father does 2 color layers and 2 clear layers unless there's a special issue like the paint not covering well or whatever. On a car that he knows he'll be buffing, he'll do 3 layers. You don't want the paint too thick because it can crack.

4. Depends. If you seriously want a 100% original-appearing color change, you're going to pay a TON. $2-10k depending on just how much of the car gets the color changed.

CamaroStud1988

i say do it yourself and that way you know itll be good. i painted my car and am abut to paint it again. i got hit, and thats why girls shouldn't drive. they tend to hit peoples cars.but im addin black metallic flames to the yellow. most people do 2 or 3 clears and buff it and its shiny as hell. if yours is all gray and you wanna go black or yellow its the same price as a normal maaco or somethin, but the doorjams and everything thats not open or exposed will stay the same color, to get that crap painted it where it gets expensive as hell

MetalliCamaroRS

iTrader: (15)

Just remember you get what you pay for.

irocEOK

damn dude! most women cannot drive. My co-worker the other day totalled his car because some lil valley type girl in her jeep on her cell phone traveled over into his lane forcing him off the road and into a tree! stupid b! get off the damn phone! better yet daddy called him and asked him not to go to the insurance, he'll pay for it, because this girl has done this a couple times now! its like take that damn license away! -
but paint it yourself! i did! only cost $500 in supplies! and it turned out nice! if you have access to a sand blaster, compressor, and gun, do it yourself. Youll do a better job because its your car, and you actually care about it.
my 2 cents

Christos

Is it "really" easy to do your own paintjob?

I could see it being easy to overspray some areas, being a amateur, and having wobbly paint all over.

It would be cheap im sure, but is it really as easy as it sounds? How many coats of paint, would you hit it like spraypaint, doing 10 small coats untill everything is covered? Only move the spraygun undirectionaly? Is that important?

I just think more info should be posted on these homemade paintjobs. It's easy for you, but to someone totally new to it all, they might not know the 1001 tricks you know.

rocky383

If I had the facilities to paint in, I would buy all the equipment and do it myself. I don't have a garage. So I am going to have to pay someone to do it. And I really don't mind paying good money for a job done right. I just don't want to get mugged for stuff I don't really need. Hell, I will probably keep it gunmetal gray to keep the cost down. I think it would look good with the windows tinted real dark. There is always the next project car to buy in the color i really want. My wife wants a 66 mustang convertible. I know, I know. I try to talk her into at least getting a fastback or gt. She just won't go for it. Oh well.

Thanks for the info.

:hail:IROC-Z

GarageToys

iTrader: (6)

Jim85Iroc: Maaco did a great job painting my lawnmower...

Rocky383: You absolutely get what you pay for. My friend had Maaco do his Blazer & spent $1200 instead of the normal $299.95 and it looks pretty decent for a driver. That didn't include door jambs or under the hood. My brother's car is at a restoration shop getting a $6000 paint job and they're promising show quality.

I'm so far over budget on my car that I'm doing the paint myself to save cash. I figure if I have to re-do some things, I'll still be saving money over the cost of a pro paint job. I know I can do better than Maaco. Borrow a friend's garage & give it a shot.

irocEOK

first of all, for the color, use PPG. Its like completely dry in 10-15 minutes and is high-quality auto paint. Expect to pay around $100-$140 for the color coat. Then go for the dupont clear. It's actually more expensive than the color, but its a real high quality clear thats got an awesome shine. If your painting your car the same color, there's no need to prime the whole car, just prime the spots you sandblasted/did bodywork on. I painted the same color, i first hit those spots to bring them up to the same shade, then threw on 2 complete coats. Then used 2 coats of clear. The shop guy told me this type of clear isnt the type you need to put multiple coats, its only been out about a year and a half, so its something new.
anyways, as far as buying a compressor goes, man, you can use compressors for anything! Airtools are soo nice. But if you dont have a garage, that sucks! Time to move man!
haha

86IROCZ

Why does everybody have a hard-on for PPG? I think it's because of NASCAR.
It's a good paint for the price, but some people seem to think it's made of gold or something.

bj350hp

iTrader: (1)

Go talk to the Painters at Like Ford or Chevy.. Most of thos Guys Paint cars for a Living so thay Might have a shop at home to make some money on the Side. Like the guy i went to He paints cars at Ford all day and has his Own Shop to make some money on the Side and Dam he Did a great job on my car... and It was a good prices To ....500 for body work and Paint.......

FLYNLOW92rs

iTrader: (53)

:sillylol: :sillylol: :sillylol: :sillylol: :sillylol:

redraif

I'm having the trainer at a paint training center paint mine on the side. These guys typically love to paint just to keep up their skills. I have heard of paint guys renting a car stripping it and reshooting, just to stay at the top of their game. So there is a good chance you could get someone like that in your area. John has done an excellent job on my car in the past. I had him paint the panels after the car was shaved and he painted my new hood and spoilers.

My cost $800-$1000 in labor for an all over job. Depends if he hits some snags. He does not have to pay for supplies. He is having to strip and do body work in some areas. I have the extra stuff on my car that requires more attention. He has had to strip the bumper covers and gfx and reprime. There are some door dings and a few dents he will address also. It will be better than a factory paint job, not true show quailty, but most of what makes a paint job show quality is the sanding b/w coats. If you shoot and sand smooth b/w each layer, you will get the most gorgeous smooth deep paint job ever. But you have to be good and not sand thru each layer you paint. John says that's what the top painters do ($10,000 and up paint jobs)

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

1)Baking on is not about paint durability per se; its more for drying the paint rapidly, in ten minutes or so, to A) keep the flow going in a body shop, and not tie up the booth (you can't touch a freshly painted, unbaked car, much less pull it out of the booth)
B) minimize contamination from getting in the fresh paint and
C) it allows the shop to cut and buff immediatley, rather than days later. Most clears are formulated to be baked on, as any real body shop has booths capable of heating.

2) Not necessarily. If you want to change the color, take everything apart yourself, do all the prep, and shoot the doorjambs and around the hatch, etc yourself...you can rent/borrow a compressor, and detail guns can bve bought cheap.
If you have a shop do all this, yes, it will be expensive, twice as much is about right.

3) This has more to do with the paint company recommendations for the type of paint used, rather than any other benefit. The idea of more layers=better is left over from when custom painters (and everyone else) used lacquer, which had to be sanded between coats and layered heavily to get a good shine (took lots of sanding and buffing, but gave a mirro finish). You don't want the paint any thicker than it has to be, since it just promotes cracking.

4) Is the car a daily driver? I wouldn't spend more than about $2000 total, because it WILL get scratched and dinged and no nisurance company is going to pay to return it to a show quality finish. If you do it yourself, or at least do the prep, you can cut costs considerably.

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

PPG does make good quality paint...I used it myself for several years...but now I use Spies-Hecker, a division of DuPont. I have also used Sikkens and DuPont, and they're all good products. It doesn't really matter what brand you use, as long as you use the paint products as directed.
I wouldn't advise using one company's base, and another's clear...it may work fine, but why take the chance? Paint companies spend megabucks formulating their paint systems to work well together, and when you use someone else's product you are asking for compatibility issues. If you want to use DuPont's clear, use their paint and primer too.

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

This process doesn't apply to base clear, which is why we aren't doing it on Shannon's car....you don't sand the basecoat before clearing. For a true show paintjob, use an acrylic urethane, sand it between coats, then clear and sand between coats of clear. Very time consuming, but it gives a finish that is as good or better than lacquer with far better durability.

irocEOK

i always enjoy that everyone on the board always has their 2 cents! hehe! hey redraif, when you going to toss that 2.8 for something larger?

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

Soon...we just haven't decided what to swap in yet, and we're going to wait until the show season is over to start yanking the 2.8 anyway. We might go LT1 (383), LS1, or possibly 406 with a TPIS Miniram...all have their advantages and disadvantages. Whichever way we go, its going to run 11s on motor and 10s on nitrous, so all the smacktalkers will be able to say NOTHING as the "girl in the riced out Firebird" sucks the windshield out of their stock appearing, stock running (read:slow) cars!

After all, if its fast its not "rice" :lala:

okfoz

There is a guy here that for around $6,000 he will give your car a car show finish, Might not include all the bump work tho, he has won many National titles with his work, since the 60's

John

Silver87S.C.

I'm paying.....right at 4,000 I think for my car to be painted. It's in the shop right now.

And you're right......most women cannot drive. I'm glad to say I'm an acception, otherwise my parents wouldnt even let me THINK of having a car.

82 TRANS AM

Good
Fast
Cheap

Choose any TWO.

Stay with the same products. Mis-matching increases your chance of heartache ten fold.

PPG is great stuff. I used the whole line for 6 years. Global is VERY nice.

I use R-M every day now. It's OK.

Save yourself a TON of money, and take the car apart yourself. Everything off. Scuff the jams and anywhere you want paint "inside". Consider black. It will be easier to black out under the hood ect. If you do use black, use PPG Concept singe stage. Have the painter mix clear in (50:50) the last two of 3-4 coats. PPG 2002 clear works well for this. It's extremely durable, birds, acid ect, and scratches won't be as aparent as black with clearcoat on top because when clearcoat gets scrached, it scrathes white. With single stage, it scratches black. Wash mit scratches on up. Concept buffs like butter too.

Baking is for chemical bonding, that leads to a durable long lasting finish. UV tears everything up.

Money wise........the sky is the limit. A great paint job will be more than most third gens are worth.

Stay away from quickie paint places. For what they charge for a paint job, i can't even buy the paint. Think about that.....that's labor, overhead, materials, insurance, ect. Cheap labor and cheaper paint.

2 mils of clearcoat is the industry standard "perfect" amount. That's your UV protection. Basecoat is applied until covered, it usually only adds up to be .5-1.0 mils.

There is a ton of mis-information about paint out there, beware.

redraif

I guess I'm an exception as well. I got the car in 89, it was when I was 15. Still my daily driver. I got in only one serious accident. It was in the rain after I hit a dead animal in the road. I hydroplaned and did 4 360s. Ended up in a tree. The hood and bumper cover were the only casualties. I was the only one involved.

I have had some close callls...People talking on cells not looking where they were driving, people pulling out in frt, and the occational semi running you off the RD on Hwys.

In my experience the worst drivers are old people. Where I live they pull out in frt of you and go slow. You have to lockup brakes or pass to not plow into them.

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

82 Trans Am, you have passed on some good info. I'm in the business too (work for a major paint booth manufacturer), and I agree with you.

As far as women drivers, I haven't noticed most being any worse than guys. I find myself cursing on the highways more at ^$%^ old tourists on their way South (the new carpetbaggers )! There is nothing worse than some jerk clogging up the fast lane in his luxobarge, or worse yet, RV, going 60 mph. Yeah, thats still just above the limit, but you better not drive that slow in the RIGHThand lane in Atlanta!

irocEOK

luxobarge, that is def. the word! ive never heard it, but i will def use that one now!

firebirdpl

cost will prob be about $2500

PHAT89TA

well i paid 771 buck for my paint job and thats includes some major body work with rust and couple of dents and painted my door jams. What they did is that they sprayed a base primer and then 2 coats of urethane paint and then 2 coats for clear and also oven baked. For how much i paid for it was a good bang for the buck. I have to take my car back to the shop because the spoiler and my front facial is chipping and also they missed couple of spots. It's true when people say u get for what u payed for so thats what i got. But for the price and how much work it has to be done i say im happy. My car looks really good all it needs is to be wetsanded cuz i have ALOT of orange peel. Email me for some pics

okfoz

The spoiler & facias chipped becasue they were lazy and did not put the flex agent in the paint when they sprayed the primer and clear coats... they should be shot seperately.

John

camaro6spd

I wouldn't do it yourself, it is not as easy as that, i have painted **** in my garage and let me tell you it is a lot different then in spray booth with good guns, compressors etc. You need the booth to set the right enviroment for the paint, little dirt, low humidity, and the correct temp for teh reducer. I gun makes a BIG...HUGE difference in how the paint comes out esp for amature painters. I have a cheap $50 gun at home, gravity fed, HVLP, 1.4 and 2.0 tips....let me tell you, it sprays like CRAP compared to the SATAs that i used at work....they are $400 guns, and then you have the Polytech guns around $250 each. I learned to paint in school and we learned not by just throwing us at a car and saying paint it, we started with small ****, then we primed a whole car and now i am about to base and clear my own car....THERE, b/c they have a booth, i could have done it faster and cheaper at home but it would have been harder to keep the paint clean....also a thing to remeber it is is probably illeage to spray in the open, and when spraying clear and some primers that have isocyinates(spelling) in them, you need a fresh-air supply system not just a respirator b/c it can't filer that out. A car is hard to paint on the whole....it is not as easy at is sounds at first....Yeah for us wo have been doing it is not a problem and ne one can get the hang of it...well almost....But you need practice first, you can't pick up a gun and just know how to spray. You have to set the gun and then practice with it untill you get the hang of what happens when you do this and that....spray things that you can mess up on b/c you will mess up you will put the paint on too dry or too wet and get runs and sags....esp. with clear...clear is hard to spray b/c it is hard to tell how you are laying it on and it runs and sags very easily.....Take it from me...painting your car is not just something you can go out and do with out experiance. Sorry for all the typos.

TP355Z

DIY till i die - my dad and I painted my IROC this week (after months of prep work) and it came out stellar. No booth, just a quality gun and a lot of air-control and prep-work. Roughly $1500 dollars in paint and 500hours and its beautiful


TRP

redraif

Congrats! Post some pics!

TP355Z

i'm workin' on it - actually...maybe i'll drag one of my techie friends down the garage today...mwuhahahahaha


Ty

85maroz28

I have learned that a good quality paint job does not come cheap. If you are going to spend the cash you might as well buy the little extra to make sure you get a quality job. As they say "You get what you pay for" and that is true!

okfoz

Sometimes you "PAY for what you GET"...

John

ScrapMaker

for most 3rd gen owners... a "quickie" or DIY paintjob is the only sane choice...

I've been quoted for a very high quality paintjob with minor body work--same color, for $2500... I knew a friend of a friend... I'm sure it would have been longer (they told me it would take about 2 weeks to strip the car down and paint all the jambs and under and around all the gfx...

or I could get the maaco paintjob... no paintjambs--same color, realigning front fenders/bumper with shims, and pulling a major dent on the rear and some dings here and there.... $1050...

For a paintjob that you KNOW is gonna be keyed, chipped, scratched, crapped on, parkinglotted, oldman'd, and hitandrunnoinsuranceguy'd.... anything over $500 for only paint and labor sounds too much...

the people at maaco use some poly paint, that apparently flexes enough to work on the front fascia, and you can get 2-4 year warranties... but the guy recommended getting the 2year warranty because white lasts really long... (wonder why he wouldn't try and sell me the 4year for $300 more? weird)...

I'd either do a maaco, or do it myself, but I know I would just screw it up....

In Austin we even have a place called EconoPaint... they offer $199 painjobs I think... in and out in less than 2 hours... paintjob is gauranteed for 2 years... and that's exactly how long it lasts... unless you pay $100 for the clearcoat, then it will last longer... even if you had the paintjob re-done every 3 years, it would still be a very economical choice compared to a $6,000 job that will totally make you cry when someone opens their door on you.

Gr89RS

iTrader: (5)

Yeah tell me about it. About two years ago i was going about 55 in the right lane on a street and a lady with her big SUV charges out of a driveway forcing me to make the fastest turn to the left you have ever seen..seriously....the whole passenger side of the car was LITERALLY 6 inches off the ground during that turn!!That's saying something considering how these cars are designed!!Anyways, I was forced onto the wrong side of the road but luckily no one was coming.I had a passenger in the car too...she WOULD have been dead had that car hit us!!
Would have made a cool action shot for my desktop :lala:

redraif

Well after floating around some and getting info on paint jobs...a good paint job is going to cost you. Now you can get the guys at macco to do a good paint job. If you prep it. Tip them. Tape up the areas you don't wanted painted (door handles). But no matter how good they lay the paint...the problem is the quality of the apint. It will prob only last 2 years! The crap they use is the bottom of the barrel. Bad Bad paint! If I was doing a quicky paint job to sell it I might consider it, but not an a car I plan to keep for any length of time!

90-irocdx3

iTrader: (4)

I paid about $3500 to have my car painted because it look terrible with all this chrome it had on it. The paint job i have right now has 6 coats of clear. You really dont need that much, but the guy i had painted was a friend so he wanted it to come out a little like show material.
before--->















after--->

90-irocdx3

iTrader: (4)

woops here is before-->

Camaroguy18

Despite everything bad I had heard about macco, I was going to go with their paint service this summer due to a new hood and low funds. However when I went to my local shop they quoted me about 2200 bucks for the whole thing, and they would not alow me to mask and tape or virtually prep any part of it myself. They said they cant trust the customer's work and whatnot...so I held off and shopped around. After some serious deciding, I took out a loan and got it done the right way and went from what would have been a 2k macco maroon paintjob to a 5000+ dollar candy apple red job.....it was said tons above, but you get what you pay for

heavy_chevy29

im 19 years old and i did this paintjob myself for nothing. i didn't even pay for supplies. but then again i paint cars for a living. at the shop i work at we charge a minimum 3k with no warrenty and no body work. the paintjob that you want from the shop i work at would cost about 5-7k with a warrenty. by the way my car was black before i painted it.

redraif

Had that ability for a while while Joe was employed at a paint booth company! Helps when you have access to the good paint materials, prep stations, & booths! Whose paint did you use? I ahve worked with both Dupont (car parts) & Spies Hecker (car body) You car looks great btw!

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, cost a lot for a good paintjob, starting 3500 up to 15 grand if you want at my shop, all dupont stuff, no joking around with bull**** products.

It is what it is man, dont do maccoo or some bull**** like that, go to a good shop and take a loan or whatever you have to do to get it done right.

Here compare a Maccoo or garage job to my paintjob, 3 weeks old, not even rubbed or polished yet, just sprayed and ried. look...

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/435668/5

heavy_chevy29

i used standox base and ppg clear

ScrapMaker

can you really justify something that costs $3000 that will most likely need to be re-done in 2-5 years? There's no question in my mind that it would be a much, much, more superior paintjob, in EVERY aspect---going with a good shop, good paint, etc.... but I don't know about you guys, living in Austin I get dinged about 3-4 times a year, plus so far I've had two parking lot catastrophes in 4 years... (aka hit and run...then cry)...

If you had the facilities I would say do it yourself... otherwise just get a cheap paintjob...

although, if this was a show car, kept in garage, weekend driver sort of thing--then I could see where you guys were getting at... I figure that most people on these boards are using their 3rd gens as daily drivers...

Camaroguy18

I hear ya on that, Im freakin out for this spring when I actually get to take my new paint out for morethan the one day I drove it home from the shop.....if it gets chipped, it cant be fixed...one of the many downsides to candy

okfoz

2 words, NAIL POLISH My old riv is House of Kolor Candy Apple Red, painted more than 10 years ago. When I get a stone chip I use Nail Polish to match it up. Its amazing how close you can actually match the color .

John

ScrapMaker

a $199 paintjob is ...amazing to me as well

PhantomFE3

if you have a friend thats good with paint it helps alot

one of my friends that i met working at mcdonalds is going to school for paint/body work, in the spring im takin my car to his house, his dad had just made a paint booth in their garage before he got divorced, my friend stayed with his mom and his mom got the garage and so he has his own paintbooth. im helping him with the prep work and paying for the materials and thats it. even though hes just filling in 1 tiny dent and putting stripes on, its gonna look pretty hot and going to be cheap but good quality. it definitely helps if you have connections

redraif

House of color now sells 2 stage candy colors, for the cars that will be out and about. You will not be able to vary the depth of the candy hue, but now you will be able to match that color if you paint it with the 2 stage version. You would just have to be sure if you drove it everyday that you kept a cover on it to minimze the color fade, so it would still match! I'm going to use the 2 stage version on my engine soon. We plan on taking it out to do some more top end tweaking. While its out, we will paint it the real candy apple red! Then just keep a small bottle of the base and clear in the show kit for any emergency touch ups! Cost is comperable to Spies or Dupont!

If I can get my hands either of the 2 "sitting in someones backyard for years" f-bodys, I plan to try it out on the exterior! Told both parties I'm interested in the cars. One is deciding when she wants to sell and how much (INOP straight v-8 camaro). The other is trying to get the title straight (bird: bad tranny w/ 2.8, & beat body). Have to talk both of them down $ wise I'm sure. Neither car is worth much over $200.00.

CamaroStud1988

this threads old. wow,lol. heres the one i as talking about so long ago.