jay_d

Ive been at this site for a long time, and I wish I had a dollar for every time somebody asked about painting cars. I'm not gonna tell you that you can achieve what an experienced paint and body man can do all on your own (I'd be out of a job if I did), but you can paint a car and get very nice results even with "fair at best" skills and tools.

Step 1: Size up
what am I dealing with here? will it need to be stripped to bare metal? or can i just scotch bright it and spray away? If you know the car has been painted more than 5 times and has not been stripped, yes its gonna need it. If you can see clear coat peeling off it needs to be on bare metal. If you can see rust, it definatly should be down to metal.

If you car is fairly decent looking just dull or minorly scratched, you can get by with the scuff and shoot method. But most cars on here fall into the DA the whole car down prime and paint catagory, and for all intensive purposes that is the one i'm going to tell you all how to do correctly.

Step 2: Tear down
Any good painter will tell you that the more pieces a car is in, the easier it is to spray. Generally you want to take off ALL of the trim and ground effects, bumpers, lights, etc. And if you have a nice set of wheels, or some brand new tires, get some rollers and put them on the car, things are about to get messy.

Step 3: Initial Body work

If you have major dents (anything bigger than a ding), or rust issues now is the time to fix them. The correct way to fix a dent is to go behind where the dent is and knock it out and back as close to original as you can. YOU HAVE TO GET IT BACK TO WITHIN 1/8th INCH OF WHAT THE PANEL WAS BEFORE IT WAS BENT, if not you body filler WILL fail down the road from now. I know some of you said, well, Jay i can't get behind my dent, so now what, well this is where the handy dandy stud welder comes into play. Buy one, borrow one...its the hands down best way to pull out a tricky dent. (I personaly own a unispotter). After you get the spot into specs, you are now ready to apply your body filler (i recomend any of the the EverCoat Rage products). After you apply the filler allow it to air dry, take a long block and some 40 grit sand paper and sand it down until it looks like the dent is starting to go away, after you think the dent is gone take a straight edge and see if everything is striaght. Now you have 40 grit scrathes in your filler. Wipe a small amount, or skim coat over the repair area and sand it down with 180 on a long block.

Step 4:Final body work

Make a walk around of the car looking for any dents you may have missed. Fill and sand. Know make sure the entire car has been sanded with 180 grit and all the rough spots are gone (It should have a pyshidelic hippee car look to it by now) If you can find anything you missed now is the time for primer

STEP 5: Primer

Using a good primer is a must in any paint job, its your foundation. I recomend PPG K38. Spray the entire car with the primer, get as many coats as you can, but be sure to give it time to flash in between coats (it builds better this way and is less likely to run) Read the back of the can for flash times. After you get around 2-3 coats on the entire car and it looks well covered WALK OFF AND LEAVE IT ALONE FOR 24 HOURS. Now the next day has rolled around and its back to work. Get a can of flat black spray paint and mist it over the entire primered area, this is called a guide coat. Let that dry while your getting your long block and 180 grit sand paper. Now comes the tricky part, when sanding the primer you have to sand in a diagonal motion while keeping your block off of the body lines and sanding with the flow of the body. it should look like an X when your done sanding off all the guide coat. If you see any black misty spots, those are low spots and will need to be filled, or will look like a dent after you put the paint on.
After you have all you low spots filled and it block sands out nicely, you are ready for one last coat of primer. 2-3 coats, let it dry for 24 hours. After its dry you will need to water sand it with 400 grit sand paper with a backing sponge, after you get it knocked down with that you will need to sand it all over again with 600 grit (trust me its easier this way). After your done sanding wash the heck out of it.

Step 5: painting prep
get the car in the area you are goin to use and mask off anything you dont want to have paint on it. then wet down the floor and wheel your fan around so that pulls the fumes and over spray out the door. take surface prep (napathane) and a lint free cloth and wipe down the entire car. Then take your tack rag and tack the entire car down.

Step 6: Base Coat, PPG Deltron, Or PPG shopline
Pour it in your gun, set the gun down in a safe place where it wont tip over. you will need a water seperator and a presure regulator, dont try this without them. Set the air presure on your gun to around 25-35 psi, set the gun down and tack your car off again. Now you are finaly ready to spray some color, just keep in mind that base coat does NOT go on thick and should only be apply just enough to make it the color you are spraying. Start at the end of the vehicle opposite of your exhaust fan. Hold your spray gun 6-8 inches away from where you are spraying and let the color go on. base coat is realativley easy to spray so dont worry, if you do get a run dont worry, just take some 1500 grit sand paper and sand it out after it drys. The first coat should be a very very light one, you can work you way on to heavier coats during the second and third coat. By the time you do your third coat everything should be the same color, and there should be any variances. Let this dry for about 20 minutes and mix your clear coat.

Step 7: Clear Coat, I recomend RubberSeal or PPG deltron

Dont get freaked out, but you will probably have a run somewhere by the time you are done putting on the clear coat. Tack off your car for the last time, and begin to spray your clear coat, the first coat should be somewhat dry sprayed and textured looking so your next 2 coats will have something to grab on to. After you finish your 1st coat let it flash for around 20 minutes, go in and start spraying your 2nd coat, lay it to it this time, you wanna make it look wet. be sure to over lap alot and move the gun in around 5-6 inches away from the car, be sure to move fast. using this tecnique you will have less orange peel, but your more likely to have a run. By the third coat the clear should have started to flow out by now, and you are just looking for spots that have dryspray, or just need a little more. Dont get too crazy here.

Step 8: Run Patrol
If you did have a run in your clear coat, its not a big deal. Just take some 1500 grit sand paper wrapped around a paint mixxing stick and sand it down smooth, the sand over that with 2000 grit, then buff that area back to a nice shine.

I hope this write up helps some body, cause im tired of seeing barbacue black firebirds and camaros. If you have any questions send me an email ga_fireman1989@yahoo.com, or send me a pm

FYRCHKN

This should be a sticky.

greatpumpkin_68

you're not using any sealer?? i always find it's best to use a good quality sealer between primer and base coat.. that way you have a nice uniform surface to spray your color on.

redfivexw

very nice post, pretty much says it all. Of course, it sounds really good, but realize this kind of work can take 100 hours of labor to get it straight, be patient. I also like to use a sealer, it is inexpensive insurance for your final coat, but not necessary if the bodywork is done properly.

jay_d

i've hardly ever use sealer, if you use the correct amount of primer you wont ever break through it down to the other finish below, I try not to paint anything that isnt totaly gray.
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oh, the only time Ive ever used any sealer is when blending, it helps match the colors up a lil more, i've actually tinted the sealer so as to not use as much base coat, but that was with house of kolors paint, its too high to mess up

RedHawkLB9

You should use sealer as extra precuation..so it wont ring up...even if you didnt break through...it wont hurt.

jay_d

are you talking about lifting? cause if so that wont happen b/c the primer you put down acts as a sealer, if you dont need it just somthing extra to pay for

Tmic87TPI

iTrader: (3)

I only use sealer when Im in a rush and during the final sand I broke threw to either the bare metal or the underlying basecoat.
as for the write up - I didn't get chance to read it yet but me and Jay_d have both answered this question very similarly in the past so I trust the writeup.
another vote for a sticky!

chevyowner02

iTrader: (3)

A neighbor of mine is what I would call a top notch painter and he dose it about the same way. Always has some nice looking paint jobs.

1piece@atime

iTrader: (1)

Thats body work in a nutshell. It would take a rather large book to cover it completely. In step 3 most professionals will grind the paint off where the dent is and make sure they don't put filler over paint. And then that leaves an edge that needs to be feathered back with a DA. Some people say thats old school but unless you strip the car down to metal we're working with old school cars and the paint thats on em'. If you want a nice job I'd be stripping it if it's been repainted even once or twice. If the car has been painted 5 times leave it in the scrap yard. It also helps to walk around the car before you start sanding and mark every little spot with a piece of tape or a sharpie so when things get messy you can still find the spots. Also I don't recommend mixing brands of products. Paint manufacturers spend a lot of money making a system that works. If you decide to use another clear or sealer or even primer your not going to get any help from the paint company if you have a compatability problem. There are so many things that can go wrong only experienced people can be assured of a nice job ... and even they screw up now and again.

redbird92'

iTrader: (1)

great write up!

el_muerte

nice post. added to my bookmarks

RedHawkLB9

well my shop uses junk limco primer so...we like to seal


but everyone has a diff method of doiing things

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

I agree!
Very nice info!

I wish this info was avail. when I painted my car.
Oh well,mine still turned out nice to me.

thanks for the detailed write up jay.
I'm sure it will help someone!

pics of 2 of my rides here

scribbles

subscribe.

Glump

What about two tone painting?...
If I spray the first color down then let it dry to tape off for the second color is there any prep to the first color before the clear will stick? Or should I just make sure to spray the first coat of clear "dry"?

Basically,
How long can the first color dry before the clear coat will not adhere?

Thanks!

BTW...Great thread!

jay_d

Holy thread from the past batman!!

when i do 2 tones i spray the color that will be the least amount of first, its easier to tape off. I then cover every inch of that with a sheet of plastic or plastic coated paper. Then after its all covered up I use an air blower at around 10 psi to blow the plastic and paper clean of any dust or trash. Then I tack cloth everything, then lay down my largest area covering base coat, let that dry, untape small smallest covering area. Now is the time to inspect your joining lines, if you have over spray from one color one the other get out you touch up gun and fix it. If you have a extra high joining line sand it down with some 2k grit sand paper and use wax and grease remover as you sand paper lube.

If everything looks up to par tack everything off make sure its clean and then clear over everything.

I cant figure out if you are trying to clear your first color, then spray your next color base then clear it. If you are then you need to spray both base colors then spray your clear, you should be able to wait 24 hours after spraying base coat before clearing it, but that is the maximum

Glump

What I was thinking is how long can I wait before spraying the clear. I know the clear is going to be last but, Could I spray one color one night then the next day come back with the other color.

I just wasnt sure if the clear had to go on within a certain amount time after the color was on. Or would I have to do anything to the color/base before the clear goes on. I have to give the first color ample drying time before I can put tape on it.

rv1890

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the great write up!...

Can you add a section for the front and rear bumper, or anything else plastic? Ive heard I need to use something called flexible primer. What do you recommend and how should it be applied? Thank You.

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

read 1 of my posts i already xplained the process for the plastic bumper

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

depending with what base coat paint u use will de determine how much gap u have to spray clear. the ideal is 30 min or so, when u do completes u can do it right after u finish the final coat bc by the time ur done the side u painted first is ready for clear.... u cant leave the paint uncleared for more that 20 hrs (risky)bc the clear wont stick to the paint an later on will flake off... it depends really on what paint system u r gonna use

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

jay_d;4015800 """'Ive been at this site for a long time, and I wish I had a dollar for every time somebody asked about painting cars. I'm not gonna tell you that you can achieve what an experienced paint and body man can do all on your own (I'd be out of a job if I did), but you can paint a car and get very nice results even with "fair at best" skills and tools....."""


Dont get me wrong man its a great write up and guide for people to paint their own cars but u will never stop reading "how to paint my car questions"

the reason is b/c every application is different for example here in california its illegal to spray basecoat solvent base paint so we use waterborn base coat, now off all the steps that u listed only 20% applies to waterborne applications..

with this said if some one has a generic Q? about painting this thread is GREEEEAAAT
but if some one has specific ? about what they wanna do keep posting ur how to Q? and feel free to pm me ill b glad to help out

jay_d

Like i said you can wait around a day after spraying your base, but its best to spray it right after its dry enough to tack it off again. You can wait over night but it shouldnt take you any more than 3 or 4 hours to get a basic 2 tone laid out. I cant see any reason why you should need to wait over night on one color to dry give it about an hour to dry so you dont pull off paint when you take your tape loose.

As for plastics, they are simple: If they have a cracked or busted spot throw them away and get a new one (plastic repair is possible, and fiber glass kitty hair, plastic welders, and screen door screen work well if you know how to do it, but i dont recommend anybody who never has done it to try by themselves). If you have any paint cracks get your trusty DA sander out and get some 80 or 180 and sand it down to bare plastic, dont get it too hot and melt it, and dont sand it into being distorted, all your trying to do is get the cracked paint off of it. get everything smoothed out and lay down a couple coats of 2k primer then guide coat it and block your repaired area out as best you can. prime it again and wetsand it.

painting it isnt that big of a deal, dont let anyone tell you to put flex agent in your paint cause its a waste of money, if you flex a bumper enough to crack the paint then 99% of the time you have ruined the bumper anyways.
I use the same method on bumpers i do on anything else, get it clean, tack it off, 2 coats of base, tack it off, 3 coats of clear

jay_d

I know absoluley nothing about water based other than that it cuts with water, its scary and id rather not talk about it lol

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

haha well get ready cuz usually california starts what will become national rule.

and sry but i disagree on your flex agent point of view but i respected it (gotta agree to disagree) lol

FUNIROC

iTrader: (4)

jay_d,

I will keep this in my notes for the future paint job. I hope to do my car in the summer of 2011.

You are close enough you can come down and help.

Camrs89

I just started my bodywork. I work at Maaco, so I get to do this for free, and trust me, on my own car, no 1 day rush job either. Was originally silver, someone did a bad paint job on it but suprisingly the body is straight, some door dings and found some small previous repairs but nothing major. Going to be sanded down with 80 to get old paint off, then gone over with 180, primed, blocked, sealed, basecoat, cleared, wetsand, and then buffed...

Yesterday Morning...



Yesterday Afternoon...



This Afternoon...

chevysquid

iTrader: (7)

When you say "tack it off", what is that?

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

he means using a tack cloth or tack rag its a special sticky towel used to remove dirt. you gotta run it slightly against the body of the car

Glump

Thanks for all the information folks. Was a great help.

rayar

iTrader: (1)

I do agree with allmost everything you say and used to be a bodyman 15+ years ago. The only change I would make is instead of a final coat of body filler to fill the 40 grit scratches I would use a polyester glazing putty instead. it is very similar to body filler but sands much easier and will also fill any pinholes you might have in the filler. It would even be better to finish the body filler with 80 grit before going with the Glazing putty. I am also an advocate of a coat of sealer before paint only because it is easier to cover a single color rather then Primer where you did repairs a yellow hood and the rest of the car orange. I have also had some bleed throughs on cars I didn't seal. A single part sealer will work fine for this.

weswisehart

Great write up jay_D. I will use this soon

58mark

iTrader: (3)

OK, here's a question... I've always used 220 wet sandpaper when sanding the finish off a car, and it takes forever.

If I use a DA, what knd of sandpaper do I use, and how do you keep it from loading up and having to change paper every 10 seconds?

rayar

iTrader: (1)

Are you sanding the car down to bare metal? 220 wet or dry will not work well for that, hand sanding will take forever regardless of how course of grit you use. At the very least you will need 80 grit on a DA to strip. I used to use 36 grit on a big random orbital and that worked very fast without the mess of strippers but I still had to hand sand some stuff.
If you are wet sanding for paint prep and are going to prime the whole car and block it out before paint then go with some 150 wet, if you plan to use a DA to prep with, which is much faster then get some 150 or 180 grit DA paper. In my experience 3M lasts longer then other brands of DA paper.

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

agree on the brand of paper 3m is the best, now to make it last a lil longer i know its out of the ordinary but if u run the da on your jeans or whatever u using as long as the cloth is free of grease or oil it extends the life of the paper b/c it unclogs it..... i always do it it might not be a professional thing to do but it works for me and i'll keep doin it

rayar

iTrader: (1)

I did go back and reread the original post and need to add a couple more things. For guide coat get a can of black sandable primer, sands easier then spray paint and won't plug the sand paper.

As far as sanding runs out of basecoat, Won't work on a metallic color but Basecoat is so easy and foolproof to spray, you do not need to spray a heavy wet coat so it shouldn't run, The only thing is, be somewhat carefull with metalics as you can get what is called tiger stripes where the metalic lays down different. There are tricks you can do on your final BC coat but I won't get into that here. Tiger Stripes are Usually not a problem with base coat systems. They are an issue with single stage paints though and I came from a time that single stage acrylic Enamel was still a very commen paint.

That is all I saw that I would change in the original post, I still think a coat of sealer is a good idea but if the whole car is in primer it will be fine without it. As far as waterbourne paints, I know nothing about them.

rayar

iTrader: (1)

Used to clean the paper on my jeans. Another piece of sand paper also works well.

Just because DA paper looks like it's clogged up chances are it isen't, Most of the time DA paper looks like it is clogged up immeadiatly but it is still cutting fine, in fact I would usually wear the edges of the paper down that stuck past the pad before the paper actually went bad and just changed it so I wouldn't destroy the pad.

The_rabbit1

okay, getting into body work now.. so, when you say let dry for 24hrs, do you mean finish spraying at 6PM and let sit till morning or let sit for a day and a half?

and after your 400 grit wet sand, do you mean 600grit wet sand as well? can/should these be done with the DA? I'm assuming no..?

58mark

iTrader: (3)

no the 24 hours is a window. dont go beyond that. In fact it's better of you do it sooner rather than later. Read the tech sheet for the paint you are using. it wil tell you when to recoat

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Hey on the primer step, if we know for a fact that our car has NO dents and we skip the guide coat step, do we still need the second 2-3 coats of primer? Or will the first 2-3 coats suffice?

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

no,the 1st one will be enough just block it and get it ready to paint... but u still have to apply a guide coat to make sure u've sanded everything evenly prior to painting

radical82

Very good information for a production shop... However, being a geezer and doing things the old fashioned way I add a few steps...

Strip the car to bare metal with 80 grit--gives you a good opportunity to look over every square inch of the car for damage, rust pits, etc.

Any place that has a bit of surface rust needs a rust encapsulator. My preference is a product call Phix.. applied with a purple scotch bright pad, make sure you wear latex gloves when putting this on, nasty stuff!!!!

Get rid of the big dents, from the back side if possible or with a stud gun if you can't get at the back.

Lay on two coats of epoxy primer, pick a quality brand and follow the directions on the data sheet for air pressure, mix ratio, flash time, number of coats, etc.

this is where the geezer stuff starts;

Let the epoxy cure and gas out for at least 48 hours....if it's going to shrink, shrivel, crack, or otherwise have problems it will do it in that amount of time... If you don't have a good base, doesn't matter how good the matierials are that go over it the paint job will be a mess!!!

Wet sand the epoxy LIGHTLY using a sanding block, 240 paper, and lots of soapy water. If you break thru the primer anywhere, touch up the spots with more epoxy primer.

Apply 2 double coats of hi-build primer, let it cure for the time specified on the data sheet. Start blocking with a long board and 180 grit dry paper. Do the whole car, then start filling an blocking the dents, dinging or shrinking out the high spots, and generally massaging the surface to super smooth condition!!!!

Apply 1 more coat of hi-build primer, let it dry then apply a light guide coat to the entire car.

Again, start blocking with a long board and 180 grit. repair any damaged areas that you find.

Block the entire car AGAIN, this time with 220 grit. All you should have left for damage by this time is a few sanding scratches or perhaps a pinhole or two. Fill these with glaze (I use all Evercoat brand fillers), allow the glaze to dry and start blocking it, first with 180, then down to 220 but ALWAYS with a long board!!!! For curved areas, I use a medium flex 9" rubber block with light pressure and for tight areas, a soft Durablock.

When you finally think the car is absolutely perfect, dry block it again, this time with 400 grit!!!! When you're done with the 400, clean the car, first with a lint free shop cloth, then with compressed air, have an exhaust fan running when you do the cleaning to get rid of the dust.

Once the dust has settled, wipe the car down with a wax and grease remover, my favorite is PPG DX 330. Dry it as you go with a clean, lint free rag--the paint stores sell the shop towels that are lint free.

Ok, now it's time for your a couple coats of your favorite sealer... Let this dry and cure for 24 hours, then start wet sanding it with 400 grit on a sanding block...the longer the block you can use, the better!!!! Any place you break thru, put on another coat of sealer and wet sand again when it's dry...the product data sheet will give you the time till sand and time till cured.

Now it's time for the base coat...wipe it down and dry it with DX 330 again. Go around all the cracks and crevices and blow out the water, dust, etc. using LOW air pressure so as not to rip the masking tape loose. How many coats of basecoat is determined by what product it is, check the data sheets. If you're going two tone, wait for the time as indicated on the data sheet to tape off for the second color then tape and paint color 2.

Check the data sheets for minimum and maximum time to clear....I usually give it an hour after the last coat of base before I start clearing...I'm old and need to rest up!!!! If you use a quality clear and the proper technique, 2 or 3 coats of clear is all you need!!! Again, go by the data sheet, not what your buddies cousin used on his car!!!!

Quality products and materials cost more, but they are well worth it!!! The best way to get a super high quality paint job is practice, practice, practice!!!! An old hood or door is a good size to work on your technique..concentrate on the distance from the gun to the panel, and your overlap...practice, practice, practice!!!!!!

My way is not the quick way...you'd go broke spending this much time on a paint job in a production type body shop!!!! But, for show quality paint IMO the extra steps, time, and money is worth it!!!! After you've done a few completes, you'll develop your own techniques and favorite products... Experiment a bit, there is no 1 set way to do body work and paint, different people get different results with different methods... See what gives you the best results!!! Talk to the pro painters and see what they do different, try it and see if it helps your quality of work!!!

Finally, PREPARATION is the most important step in a paint job!!! If the body work isn't as perfect as you can possibly get it, the paint is not going to hide it!!!! Don't hurry, just take your time and keep working on it till it's right!!!!

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

however there's a RIGHT way and a WRONG way

whoever wants to start a project make sure u know the right way first and develop your skills from there.

radical82

Actually, there's a whole lot more wrong ways then there are right ways!!!! But, there's a right way that's quick and productive, and a number of right ways that are very time consuming but yield a really first rate job!!!! There is no one right way to do any task, just different metods of achieving the same goal!!!! I teach newbies to body work what works for me, then help them to adapt their own techniques to it... The first rule, NEVER more the 1/8" of filler!!! Dingin', pingin', spoonin', slappin', and shrinkin' just doesn't seem to be taught anymore!!!!! You notice that too??????

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

thats exactly what im referring to. now days i see more and more people that want to fix everything with filler and all those people call it "bondo" not even knowing that that is just a brand not a product... any ways im glad that i was taught by a teacher like you... thanx to teachers like that i know hot to use a file .... but yea i agree with you on the "new school" of body work...

radical82

"New School", quick and easy, lots of mud, throw it out the door and run to the bank with the money!!!! That crap just doesn't make it around here!!!

The dude who taught me said that if you take care of the quality first, the money will follow... He was right!!! Unfortunately nowadays there are so dang many quick and easy scammers who don't give a rip about the quality and just want the money!!! Makes it tough for all of us to get good work because the scammers have made the public gun shy of all the shops...not just body work and paint, either!!! I'm semi-retired now and am fortunate that I only have to do the work I want for people I like!!! Almost feel sorry for anyone starting out in the trades these days! So much bad publicity makes it tough for everyone...

Always remember, it takes a lifetime to buildup and maintain a good reputation for the quality of your work, but it only takes one "quick buck" job to ruin it!!!!!

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

couldn't have said it better...... MAN you took me back to my high school days (5 years ago)

jay_d

man if you aint telling me

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

hope ur taking off that front bumper and side skirts and all the other stuff there.. i would take full advantage of working at a macco..

Davidgou

iTrader: (2)

Great thread and thanks for all the advise guys. I hope to use this info soon.