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Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

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Old 05-23-2010, 09:56 PM
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Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Some may know that this summer has been planned for some body work. I have rust spots, and I plan on killing them using any means possible. It's also time to do the paint right.

However, I have hit a big snag. My pass rear quarter has been messed up since I bought the car back in 03 with a large crack running down the body line. I didn't think anything of it at the time since it didn't go through for some reason and the panel seemed solid, so I let it go until I had a chance to do it right. Now, the crack has extended from the front end of the side marker right into the wheel well. Also, as long as I've had the car, the quarter has been BADLY misaligned with the rear bumper and hatch.

Today, I found out the reason for both. I saw that the part of the panel by the crack was somehow flexible, so I pulled it off and got a shock. The PO of my car decided that instead of replacing the rusty quarter panel like a good car owner, he was just going to cover it liberally with Bondo. I mean, right at the crack, the stuff is either damn close to or just over a HALF INCH THICK. It looked okay other than the crack which turned into a break, but I'm sure it's kind of heavy and it's just not right. It looks as though a majority of the quarter has been slathered with Bondo, from the edge running along the side of the hatch glass right down to the lower curve where the panel edges are pinch welded, along with about half of the sail (which is still slightly dented). I don't know the full extent of the damage, but I'm going to try to find out how much of the quarter is bad. Right now, it looks like the lower 2/3 of the wheel well at the rear of the wheel, all the way down to the bottom and to the rear bumper mount, is bad, either being rusted to crap or having some other damage.

The question is as above: Is it worth it to save this body? I don't know how much rust is under the t-top weatherstripping, the windshield already needs to be replaced and the bow does have some rust, there is a small rust hole in the pass side rear footwell due to leaky t-top weatherstripping, all of the weatherstripping PERIOD needs to be replaced from the front to the back, there is some rust on just about every panel short of the driver's side fender (pass side fender is slated for replacement due to a large dent and being otherwise damaged), and the lower radiator mount either needs straightening or replacement. I could probably manage a patch panel with some help from a neighbor of mine who used to do this sort of thing. I do have welding experience, but am a little short of equipment (not even an oxy torch here). And then there is the whole matter of cost. It looks as though I'm going to have to take the car off of the road for at least the entire summer, which will save on insurance (probably going to have to turn in the plates and cancel my overpriced policy as there won't be much sense in renewing the registration in August). Or am I better off getting some sort of a rolling chassis?

What I would like to do is to strip the body down to just being a roller and get things done separately (engine, trans, body, interior) and then get things back together, but this is going to be a hard climb up a sheer cliff, it seems.

:edit: I'll try to get pics tomorrow, as I have other things that I need pics for as well.

Last edited by Maverick H1L; 05-23-2010 at 10:02 PM.
Old 05-24-2010, 01:12 AM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Probably not what you want to hear, but that right side sounds like a mess. For a V6 car (not to slam it as I have one as well) but other than the body shell what is it's worth?

If you're keeping the car and have some plans for it, I would suggest you need a pretty big budget - 1/2 inch on the quarter panel up into the sail panel suggests some pretty heavy damage at some point.
Old 05-24-2010, 03:49 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

It's not full-on damage as is seen in an accident... It's all-out rusted to crap, as seen below. I haven't gotten most of the bondo off yet, as can be seen. The second pic is to show the thickness of the crap right at the crack. Yes, that bolt in the middle has a 13mm head on it...

:edit: This is also the heaviest rust damage on the car so far, with the exception of what I'm probably going to find under the top weatherstripping. Most of the rest is just surface rust I'm slowly killing (new sander comes in June 9), with the exception of some rust-outs in the doors.
Attached Thumbnails Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-passquarter.jpg   Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-quarterbondo.jpg  
Old 05-26-2010, 10:03 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

I would suggest replacing that quarter panel. Any other type of repair will probably only cause you no end of continuous grief.
Old 05-27-2010, 01:00 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Originally Posted by Maverick H1L
The question is as above: Is it worth it to save this body?
From what you said and seeing your Quater, it looks and sounds kind of like what I got going on. Only I started to work on my rusty car like 2 months ago. I have to say I wish i never did. You will Find rust in place after place after place. Oh and then guess what you took some thing else off, wait whats that, oh yea, RUST!!

There is nothing wrong with wanting to do it, or even following through with it. But you are going to need time, space, and money. If I were you are really considering starting the project. Make sure you start striping the car down. Take out seats, trim and carpeting. Also on the out side take off the GFX and bumpers. That will give you a good start as to what your really geting in to.

There are up sides to every nightmare, like a great experance to learn alot and being able to watch your project turn from Cinderfella to Cinderella.

Good luck with what ever you do. But do know there will be a long road ahead. (and you may start to have dreams that rust will take over the world)

Chrome On Rust
Old 05-27-2010, 01:03 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

just replace the whole fender and be done with it..
Old 05-27-2010, 03:24 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

My advice is to strip the car down before making any decisions on fixing it. With the quarter that badly rusted, chances are there's serious rot in other places. These cars can quickly turn into a money pit when extensive bodywork is needed. That quarter cannot be repaired effectively, it needs to be replaced. That means a lot of cutting and welding. If you can't do it yourself it's going to be real expensive.

I was in a similar situation. After many frustrating hours of trying to repair severe rot, I found a rust free rolling shell for $300. It was a fraction of the cost of fixing the original body. Now all the parts from the original car are going back on the new body.

Good luck with which ever path you choose.
Old 05-27-2010, 08:21 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Originally Posted by Chrome on Rust
From what you said and seeing your Quater, it looks and sounds kind of like what I got going on. Only I started to work on my rusty car like 2 months ago. I have to say I wish i never did. You will Find rust in place after place after place. Oh and then guess what you took some thing else off, wait whats that, oh yea, RUST!!

There is nothing wrong with wanting to do it, or even following through with it. But you are going to need time, space, and money. If I were you are really considering starting the project. Make sure you start striping the car down. Take out seats, trim and carpeting. Also on the out side take off the GFX and bumpers. That will give you a good start as to what your really geting in to.

There are up sides to every nightmare, like a great experance to learn alot and being able to watch your project turn from Cinderfella to Cinderella.

Good luck with what ever you do. But do know there will be a long road ahead. (and you may start to have dreams that rust will take over the world)

Chrome On Rust
First off, that's the only real rust damage on the entire car other than an isolated spot here and there (except for what I'm sure is under the T-top weatherstrip). I've made damn sure of that (my family has killed 2-3 cars now only due to rust that were still running fine when gotten rid of). Second, I don't have any GFX to get water and crud underneath of (not yet, that's in the plan is adding GFX). I do have the time, but space could be a problem as we have a small garage that already has a lot of stuff in it, and very crappy electrical wiring. And then there is the fact that I don't have a welder, nor do I know how to use a wire-feed (MIG, TIG, etc) welder (class I took in high school only used stick welders). I can easily learn to use one, but there is the issue of the cost of the thing.

The front bumper is coming off regardless, as I plan on modifying it for an air intake, and I guess the rear one will have to come off as well, once I get a nut cracker (tried to get the support off before and none of the nuts came off, only spinning the studs in the support brackets).

I've removed some more of the Bondo since I took that pic above, and I still believe that only the bad section behind the wheel needs to be replaced, as all of the bondo above the line at the top of the pic (there is somewhat of a line that's nearly straight if you see), is covering good metal, which is why it's not coming off very easily, and there are a few holes here and there that look like they have been drilled into the metal to aid in holding the bondo in place.

Once I get the sander in June, I'll know more, and hopefully by then, I'll have some sort of a price on a quarter panel, full or partial. This still looks as though it's going to be highly cost ineffective to keep this body.
Old 05-28-2010, 08:22 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Originally Posted by Maverick H1L
First off, that's the only real rust damage on the entire car other than an isolated spot here and there (except for what I'm sure is under the T-top weatherstrip). I've made damn sure of that (my family has killed 2-3 cars now only due to rust that were still running fine when gotten rid of). Second, I don't have any GFX to get water and crud underneath of (not yet, that's in the plan is adding GFX). I do have the time, but space could be a problem as we have a small garage that already has a lot of stuff in it, and very crappy electrical wiring. And then there is the fact that I don't have a welder, nor do I know how to use a wire-feed (MIG, TIG, etc) welder (class I took in high school only used stick welders). I can easily learn to use one, but there is the issue of the cost of the thing.

The front bumper is coming off regardless, as I plan on modifying it for an air intake, and I guess the rear one will have to come off as well, once I get a nut cracker (tried to get the support off before and none of the nuts came off, only spinning the studs in the support brackets).

I've removed some more of the Bondo since I took that pic above, and I still believe that only the bad section behind the wheel needs to be replaced, as all of the bondo above the line at the top of the pic (there is somewhat of a line that's nearly straight if you see), is covering good metal, which is why it's not coming off very easily, and there are a few holes here and there that look like they have been drilled into the metal to aid in holding the bondo in place.

Once I get the sander in June, I'll know more, and hopefully by then, I'll have some sort of a price on a quarter panel, full or partial. This still looks as though it's going to be highly cost ineffective to keep this body.
Gotch yea, glad you know the extent of the rust. Its all ways a good place to start. Unlike what someone (me) I know did.

Yea if your do go through with it. Have a good place to put thing. One where you will not have to move things alot(Or at all peferably). Not only a time saver but also save you or someone you know from breaking things. Happend to me, so then i found a good spot for my parts and nothing else has broken yet.

So if thats all the worse the car is and you can get a welder. I would definitely just replace and not scrap the car.


Good Luck
Old 05-28-2010, 09:16 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

I agree about not scrapping the car. The only point is that if it is just the area behind the wheel well, then just cut out that piece and weld in a new section. Depending on the degree of involvement of the sail panel,etc. - if there is no rust, then some hammer-and-dolly plus pick-and-filing work, will get you to the point that a much thinner coat of filler will finish it for you.

On the other hand, if the damage is significant, I would think about replacing the quarter panel.
Old 05-29-2010, 07:45 AM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Yeah, I'd start hitting the 'yards to find a whole panel.
Old 05-29-2010, 12:12 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Well, I pulled the interior yesterday and the headliner today. Yes, the quarter is the worst of the rust, but the part under the pass side front seat has gotten slightly worse, and, since I took the carpet out, I've noticed rust over the top of the fuel filter by the driver's side rear seatbelt retractor (lap belts in the rear here), and some at the bottom of where each kick panel would be, worse on the driver's side than the pass side. Where does that come from, the kick panels?

Most of the rest is indeed surface rust, which will be killed with a rust killer and have undercoating put over the top of. I'll upload pics later.
Old 06-01-2010, 08:54 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Well, let's just say I took the front clip off today (the bumper AND the fenders) and found out where the rust in behind the kick panels came from... First up is an overall pic, second of the inside without the interior except the dash, third of the floorpan itself.
Attached Thumbnails Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-current.jpg   Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-inside.jpg   Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-floorpan.jpg  
Old 06-01-2010, 08:56 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Next, we return to the rear quarter, from the inside spare tire well. The first pic shows the current holes, the second more of the overall area, and the last of the rear of the well where the quarter meets the tail panel.
Attached Thumbnails Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-passquarterinside.jpg   Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-passquarterinside2.jpg   Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-passquarterrear.jpg  
Old 06-01-2010, 08:58 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Floor pans now. Driver's floor pan first, with the large rust out being right over the fuel filter. The second one is the passenger's floor pan where the only original rust damage (that I noticed when I bought the car and stripped the interior) was, along the top of the pic, where about 3 cracks come together.
Attached Thumbnails Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-dsfloordamage.jpg   Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-psfloordamage.jpg  
Old 06-01-2010, 08:59 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Kick panels... Driver's, then passenger's, again.
Attached Thumbnails Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-dskickpaneldamage.jpg   Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-pskickpaneldamage.jpg  
Old 06-01-2010, 09:02 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Outside, finally. First is the battery tray, second is the bent radiator support (oops on my part, not a crash, but a badly placed jack), third is of one side where I suspect that the rust inside the kicks is coming from, where I'd guess that the original body sealant either wasn't applied or came off.

:edit: And, straightening the lower pinch welds is part of the plan... However, they used to be MUCH worse.
Attached Thumbnails Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-batterytray.jpg   Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-radsupport.jpg   Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-pskickpanelarea.jpg  
Old 06-09-2010, 11:09 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

i don't think it's worthwhile but i'm not an expert. i'd like to see what happens but that is some serious rust right there.
Old 06-10-2010, 10:06 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

More pics coming tomorrow. Straightened the radiator support with a BFH, starting work on the hem flanges, removing the old body seam sealer. Still looking for a chance to use the working car to get some sanding discs so I can see how much damage there is down there, but there is a lot of Bondo on the inside and the outside of the spare tire well floor, and I keep finding someone's crappy spot welds (more like electric arc tack welds) everywhere. I'm surprised the panel didn't outright fall off with that same railroad crossing that flexed the frame enough to crack the windshield with those cruddy welds on there. And I'm still having loads of trouble with the bolts and nuts on the rear bumper reinforcement. Looks like I'm going to have to get a nut cracker as well when I get the sanding and cutting discs and wire wheels.

I've decided she's going to get fixed if I have to walk to work through sub-zero days next winter.
Old 07-07-2010, 08:09 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Bringing this one back for a pic update as I got my hands on an angle grinder and took 2 hours getting the filler off of the panel, from where the paint is actually paint right to the top of the sail panel where the factory seam to the roof is. Half of my driveway is now completely white with body filler.

Originally Posted by GTA50
I agree about not scrapping the car. The only point is that if it is just the area behind the wheel well, then just cut out that piece and weld in a new section. Depending on the degree of involvement of the sail panel,etc. - if there is no rust, then some hammer-and-dolly plus pick-and-filing work, will get you to the point that a much thinner coat of filler will finish it for you.
That's already been done before. Zoom right in on the pic to see what I mean.

The sail isn't how I expected. I think it got hit with hail or small stones or something as it's just pin-pricked here and there. It was the ungodly huge amount of filler on the panel that had the dent.

I'm going to get a quarter panel skin from Summit, along with lower door skins from Classic Industries (only the front lower corners of the doors are REALLY bad), and a large piece of sheet steel I can bend and use in some of the other small spots (from a local steel place, pretty cheap). One question: What's the gauge of the majority of the sheet metal on the car? The sheet I've been looking at is 18ga... I can get different, though.
Attached Thumbnails Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-barequarter.jpg  

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Old 07-07-2010, 10:23 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Hey, just went out to my garage and put a guage on a piece of floor pans that i had laying around, just finished doing mine. So i know for sure that the floors are 20 gauge. Hope it helps.
Old 07-09-2010, 01:20 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

I would go no further with this project. It will take tons of time and cash. Find someting inexpensive and work on that, rust really is evil and evil never goes away.
Old 07-09-2010, 05:48 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Originally Posted by net_coma
I would go no further with this project. It will take tons of time and cash. Find someting inexpensive and work on that, rust really is evil and evil never goes away.
You're pretty late on that. I've already decided to fix it. Besides, it might look like a lot, but it's mostly surface rust and it's pretty isolated (even the rusty quarter is pretty isolated and will only require skinning). It will take more time, and a TON more money I don't have to spend on another body, plus delivery (if necessary), plus replacing what is probably bad (NYS and surrounding areas) on yet another body that could raise my insurance rates (if the replacement body has a V8 VIN). Also the fact that I'm sticking with my V6 and swapping the body mounts is a PITA. I made the decision a while ago, before I found all of the rust, that I'm going to take the time and cost to do what I needed to do to make the car as close to factory fresh as possible (new windshield, new weatherstripping, new suspension, rebuilt engine and trans of which I already have the parts for, new pass side fender, new bumper covers or GM replacements). This rust only added to my $4700 parts list by a couple grand. Finding a decent roller could cost me that much alone between the cost of the roller and delivery, just to minimize having to replace body panels, of which I only really need to replace just 2 (quarter and fender on passenger's side).

I posted this a month before I found out how little rust there really was on the quarter panel.
Old 07-11-2010, 06:00 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

I really commend you on this project Maverick. I'm currently doing a frame-up on my '88 GTA that had an engine fire. Many people would think that is a waste of money and I should sell off parts. On the other hand, thinking back 20 or 30 years I'm sure the same was said about restoring a '70 Trans Am, etc.....

The other aspect about the V6, glad to hear that you want to keep it as well. I have my '89 Firebird with the V6, 5-speed and that is my DD. I did a very radical build on the engine and I love that car - it certainly will blow the doors off my '84 T/A (LG4, auto) and keeps up nicely with the V8's and import V6's.

Also just wanted to pass on my personal thanks for your great involvement and input in the V6 forum.
Old 07-11-2010, 07:42 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

I know this is a little late for you but if everybody looked at working on these cars from a financial standpoint there would not very many 3rd gens left other than the ones that are popping up with just a few miles on them and this site would probably not exist either. I mean really is it (financially) worth doing anything; 4th gen interiors, engine swaps or upgrades, suspension upgrades or even fixing the body or painting them? No not really, not in this economy anyway, I don't think any of these upgrades will get your money back when you go to sell it (depending on how much paint and body work costs you it may get close). But I'm sure a lot of you like me have read a magazine article or watched a tv show where they make an old car new again and think about how much fun that would be, so like I tell everyone when they ask me why I bought my camaro is "hey if you want to build a car I think this is the way to go and I'm sure you could build about anyone of these for $10,000 and have anything you wanted depending on the motor" Also as I'm sure most of you like me feel somewhat of a connection with these cars either always wanting one or having one or knowing someone who used to have one or maybe you just like this body style.

So in my opinion is it worth fixing financially? No, but how much pride will you have in this car after it is done? For me I mentioned it to my wife how much fun it would be to fix one of these cars up and my son heard that and loved the idea, now that time and bond that we will have in that car will be priceless and I wouldn't care if it cost me $100,000 it will be totally worth it when he's older and we can look at it and see what all our blood, sweat, tears and my checkbook made. I'm glad you're fixing it and please give us updates.
Old 07-12-2010, 12:58 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Originally Posted by GTA50
I really commend you on this project Maverick. I'm currently doing a frame-up on my '88 GTA that had an engine fire. Many people would think that is a waste of money and I should sell off parts. On the other hand, thinking back 20 or 30 years I'm sure the same was said about restoring a '70 Trans Am, etc.....

The other aspect about the V6, glad to hear that you want to keep it as well. I have my '89 Firebird with the V6, 5-speed and that is my DD. I did a very radical build on the engine and I love that car - it certainly will blow the doors off my '84 T/A (LG4, auto) and keeps up nicely with the V8's and import V6's.

Also just wanted to pass on my personal thanks for your great involvement and input in the V6 forum.
I hear you there. My sister and brother in law had a late second-gen Camaro I'd absolutely kill to get my hands on now, and I was a little disappointed when I heard that they got rid of it for so little (what I could have afforded at the time, but that car had even more problems than mine did at the time).

I've been planning on keeping the V6... I'll throw my 1998 3100 heads on it, new cam, new rockers, maybe a P&P if I can afford it, and stick with that until I get hungry for a V8. At which time, I'm going to try to find my dream '81 Z/28. Anyways, I'm anticipating around 240HP and 260 TQ at the crank, and I don't think I'll go much further than that. I'm looking to do some unconventional things with the V6, one of which won't increase power, and the other that might, just to stand out from the rest of the hybrid guys. I had been planning on getting a 3.4 a long time ago, when the 2.8 was toast, but I'll stick with the 3.1 unless I somehow end up with another, better paying, job.

And I like putting the stuff I learned when I went to school for auto technology to use somewhere... It's not like I could get a job in a shop here without 2 years "professional" experience (school only counts as 1).

Anyways, as for updates, I got some more paint yesterday and basecoated the top of the spoiler, stripped and repainted the headlight doors, and as of right now, I'm waiting for the second coat of primer to dry on the side mirrors. I might tackle the driver's side fender next. The rest of the car won't be touched until I get the sheet metal replaced on the quarter and the interior rust-outs taken care of. Good news is that there are kits for that sort of thing (on the interior). Oh, and I also got the rust stripped off of the bottom of the tail panel, behind where the rear bumper reinforcement was. i think I'll pick up a small can of that Rust Bullet and test it on there, since there are some pits left by the rust.

No pics right now. I'll take some when I get cleaned up today, or tomorrow.
Old 07-13-2010, 12:30 AM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

hey Maverick dont you just love New York and all the salt on the roads. i feel your pain my quarters aint that bad but everywhere else on my car is in similar to worse condition. i would not buy brand new body panels it would be a lot cheaper to get another third gen to use as a donor for body panels. thats what i plan to do in the near future. i've spotted a gold trans am in leicester that don't look too bad.

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Old 07-13-2010, 09:03 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Originally Posted by 87bluebird
hey Maverick dont you just love New York and all the salt on the roads. i feel your pain my quarters aint that bad but everywhere else on my car is in similar to worse condition. i would not buy brand new body panels it would be a lot cheaper to get another third gen to use as a donor for body panels. thats what i plan to do in the near future. i've spotted a gold trans am in leicester that don't look too bad.
In my case, it wasn't just NY salt... Ohio, Mass and Connecticut have even worse roads in terms of that crap, as they also use sand . And the sitting for months at a time (first full winter I had the car, once before school and a couple months during school) didn't help much either.

As I said before, I'm going the way I can afford. Getting a new body and fixing what is wrong with it, plus swapping in new parts (suspension, brakes, interior, possibly weatherstripping and then paint), would cost me almost twice as much as my current project (body alone in some cases may cost as much as my current project). And then there is the fact that I can point to my car and say, "I did that"...

Some progress has been made. I've got the driver's side fender ready for the stripe and emblems before the black base coat. I'm using Metallic Black for the basecoat and I'm not sure yet on what shade of red, but it will also be metallic. And the second pic has the 2 large chunks of Bondo in place on the car, just to illustrate where the rust came from. The crack between the 2 is where the water, salt, and crap got in there and made the rust worse.
Attached Thumbnails Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-fender1.jpg   Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-bondochunks.jpg  

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Old 07-13-2010, 09:27 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Headlight doors have been painted... I think I'll have to get another can of clear for them and the door mirrors, which have also been redone:
Attached Thumbnails Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-hdlpdoors.jpg   Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-mirrors.jpg   Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-ldoor.jpg  
Old 07-21-2010, 06:23 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Went to the junkyard yesterday. Found out that I can get as much sheet metal as I need for the quarter panel for $100 if I cut it myself. Looks like I'm going to pick up some new blades and a couple more batteries for my saw. The quarter has the usual rust at the top of the wheel well, but nothing major other than that. Of course, it's going to be stripped, as the black is already coming off of the red factory paint. Too bad, though, because I kind of like those pinstripes... Sorry, no pics.

Not much progress... Hours have been cut at work again and with them, so has my paycheck. And I've been busy with other things. I probably won't be able to get the panel until next month at the minimum. The donor won't be going anywhere... Been sitting there for 3 years now, so...
Old 07-25-2010, 08:56 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

BTW, where's the best place to separate the quarter from the wheel well panels? Is it at the lip of the wheel well, or elsewhere?
Old 08-03-2010, 11:13 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Originally Posted by Maverick H1L
BTW, where's the best place to separate the quarter from the wheel well panels? Is it at the lip of the wheel well, or elsewhere?
if i remember rite there spot welded on the bottom of the wheel well. drill out the spot welds and peal it off.
Old 08-04-2010, 06:25 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

I know about the pinch welds at the bottom of the car... Those are obvious. What I want to know is if the outer wheelhouse panel is also welded to the quarter at the lip of the well, on the inside. I think it is, but I'm not 100% sure on that.
Old 08-13-2010, 06:17 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Well, I found out the answer to the above for myself. It took me 5 hours today, but that quarter is OUTTA THERE! May have some problems at the wheel well lip where the rust and other damage was, but I think there will be enough to attach the replacement panel to. I haven't gotten the spare tire well floor out yet, as I haven't removed the undercoating down there and can't see the spot welds. To get the quarter separated down there, I merely used my grinder with a cutoff wheel to cut it (the spare well), since it's going to be replaced anyways. No pics yet, but I should have them either early tomorrow or Sunday (working all day tomorrow ).

I got the batteries a couple days ago and the saw blades this afternoon, so I should be good to go to the junkyard if I can use the car some time next week. Until then, I'm going to be busy grinding down all of the spot welds (used a spot weld cutter which leaves bumps) to make everything nice, clean, and flat. To install the replacement panel, since I don't have a welder or a way to get/use one, I'm going to get some 3M Automix 8116 body panel adhesive (the stuff they use in factories now to hold cars together), some Automix seam sealer, and an applicator gun (big money there ).
Old 08-14-2010, 09:49 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Took the pics this morning, before I ground down the welds and promptly had to shower and go to work . The biggest pain about this is going to be getting the base metal on the tail panel and the wheel well straightened enough to put the replacement sheets on. And getting the remnant of the quarter unwelded from the rocker...

:edit: And yes, that's the stuff I'm going to use to get things straightened out there in what is the spare tire well, and the hatch weatherstrip is hanging loose. I keep the car covered (the cover is in the top right corner) so rain and such doesn't get in there. You wouldn't believe it, but I sanded all of the body filler off of the quarter almost a month ago and it has rained a few times since then. I also plan on replacing the spare tire bracket as the one on this quarter was only held on with the PO's crappy spot welds in 5 places or so.
Attached Thumbnails Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-byequarter.jpg   Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-quarterout.jpg   Need an opinion:  Worth the cost?-quarteroutback.jpg  

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Old 10-01-2010, 10:58 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Not much to update... I did pull the weatherstripping and the rusted to crap T-bar off of the roof, and actually found clean metal. I also stripped and ground the rust off of the windshield bow. But, I did manage to break the upper driver's side corner of the windshield when I pulled the molding off. Oh, well. It's going to be replaced anyways (got a crack in the corner of the windshield down by the wipers on the same side that runs all the way around the corner due to body flex and a rough railroad crossing).

Oh, almost forgot... I also got the replacement radiator support (upper) and radiator fan, of which the motor is dying and the mounts broke when removing the bolts. And I drained the oil out of the rearend and got the suspension components off. I had to cut the one LCA off, like I expected. That rubber bushing absolutely STANK when I cut through it.
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:12 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

I know what you think of my knowledge but here goes anyhow. If the quarters have that must rust, there must be a ton of it elsewhere. Any car can be repaired but sometimes it's cheaper to find a better one to start with. Mine had some rust in some of those places but the frame-unibody was in good shape. If your windshield cracked from just hitting rr tracks, I'd be looking deeper than just the outer skins. Torque boxes and frame and floor supports could be just as rusty and that is the support of your car.
Old 10-01-2010, 11:12 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

you're a trooper for doing all of this to save the car. good for you!
Old 10-01-2010, 11:17 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Originally Posted by Maverick H1L
Took the pics this morning, before I ground down the welds and promptly had to shower and go to work . The biggest pain about this is going to be getting the base metal on the tail panel and the wheel well straightened enough to put the replacement sheets on. And getting the remnant of the quarter unwelded from the rocker...

:edit: And yes, that's the stuff I'm going to use to get things straightened out there in what is the spare tire well, and the hatch weatherstrip is hanging loose. I keep the car covered (the cover is in the top right corner) so rain and such doesn't get in there. You wouldn't believe it, but I sanded all of the body filler off of the quarter almost a month ago and it has rained a few times since then. I also plan on replacing the spare tire bracket as the one on this quarter was only held on with the PO's crappy spot welds in 5 places or so.
Look at it this way, now that you have the quarter off you dont have to worry about the trunk leaking and then flooding the entire car!
Old 10-01-2010, 11:18 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Originally Posted by white gold 88
I know what you think of my knowledge but here goes anyhow. If the quarters have that must rust, there must be a ton of it elsewhere. Any car can be repaired but sometimes it's cheaper to find a better one to start with. Mine had some rust in some of those places but the frame-unibody was in good shape. If your windshield cracked from just hitting rr tracks, I'd be looking deeper than just the outer skins. Torque boxes and frame and floor supports could be just as rusty and that is the support of your car.
Would you care to look at the pics again? I've taken a pic of just about every angle on my car imaginable. I forgot to take a pic of the driver's side quarter, which is bare of rust. You tell me where the major rust is because I just can't seem to find it. Other than that one quarter and the battery tray, that is. And, like I said, the quarter wouldn't be that bad, had the PO done the panel repair properly instead of slathering 5/8" or so of Bondo over the whole panel and letting it crack, trapping water between the panel and the filler.

And you have NO idea how nasty that RR crossing is. I thought the county fixed it, but they added a second set of tracks and made it WORSE. Even the NYSP SUV's do some serious bouncing over those tracks, and they're made for the off-road.

Forgot to mention I cut out the rust holes to make way for patches.

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Old 10-01-2010, 11:39 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Just hate to see you go to all that work not to be able to hit a bump without cracking a w-shield. Like I said, I'd be checking the underside closely. There shouldn't be that much body flex unless the w-shield had a chip on the edge or a rock chip that ran on the hard bump. I've hit numerous bad pot holes and never had a glass crack that wasn't chipped or something. Good luck on fixing your car but I believe I'd be looking for something a little better to start with. There's usually one on c-list with a blowed V6 for less then $500
Old 10-02-2010, 06:16 PM
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3 new pics, under the front, under the rear again (without the brake and fuel lines and the gas tank), and the sanded-down driver's quarter. Yes, that block of wood is helping to keep the body from flexing in the second pic (white gold, I have t-tops. Unlike your hard top, I don't have the A-pillars connected to the B-pillars and just have a single bar in the middle. As a result, the body likes to twist. Which is why the windshield cracked in the corner. Which is why I'm getting some SFC's under there.), because my driveway is uneven at the garage end (even my garage floor is uneven, this stuff happens when your house is some 200 years old) and I'm trying to prevent the body from twisting as much as I possibly can. Oh, and that line in the third pic that is coming towards the cam is the fuel vapor line I haven't removed yet because I haven't dropped the transmission out yet and gotten to the last mounting bolt above it.
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Old 10-02-2010, 06:57 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Doesn't look that bad. Still, body flex shouldn't occur enough to crack a w-shield, even on a t-top car. Probably a chip on the edge that ran when you hit the bump. GM built the floor and lower rails stronger on the t-top cars than the hard tops. And that single bar in the middle is much stronger than four of the hard top side roof rails combined. Didn't check it but the hard top I cut off was much lighter than the t-top roof without the glass panels. I've seen many hardtop hit in the front and the doors go back in the quarters. The t-top cars seem to hold up better as it usually takes a much harder hit in the front to push the doors into the quarters. BTW My car has the t-top roof from my totaled 84. It doesn't have the stronger lower rails and floor section. That's why I put a 8 point cage in it. No SFC's. Don't need them even pushing 500 hp. I can jack any corner of my car and doors still work fine. Good luck, stay with it, I know I had those days of why in the world am I doing this, especially after working 8+ hours on other cars. Looked at a 69 today, man wants restored for street. So yours is the second one I've seen rust under today. Quarters wheelhouses door skins roof , all to be replaced. Hope he got lots of cash. Or could leave a title.
Old 12-25-2010, 03:14 PM
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It's been a while..... any updates?
Old 12-25-2010, 03:36 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Originally Posted by musclecar70sfan
It's been a while..... any updates?
Been busy with work and such... Problem with this project is the current budget allows only 1 part a week. So far, I have either ordered or gotten:

Front and rear WS6 36mm front and 24mm rear sway bars, used Hotchkis, with bushings, but I need to order end links for the front bar.
Ordered rear shocks, shipped 2 days ago, should be here next week.
New drum brake backing plates. Will be installed when I get another pair of jack stands for the rear and can get the wheels, axles, and existing brakes off. Had to buy a kit to drill out the pinion side shaft lock bolt and broke the drill bit removing it. Lock bolt is out and so is the shaft, just haven't been able to get the wheels off yet. If I hadn't listed it before, the one stuck LCA has been cut off (that blasted bushing absolutely STANK when I cut through it), and both LCA's and the rear shocks are gone to the scrapyard.
T-top weatherstrip, roof only, and replacement t-bar for the roof since the old one was rusted to crap. Still need to drill out 1 screw for the bar, but the car is covered in snow. Cleaned up all of the rust on the roof with sanding disc and grinding wheel. There wasn't much. Still need to get rid of the rest of the body filler on the roof.
Used black front seat belts (deleting rear seats) and replaced broken release buttons per TSB.
Installed replacement shift boot on 4th gen console and compartment where 2nd gear start/TCS off switch would be.
Replacement upper door sills. Need the window felts replaced. And, along with those, black seat belt guides for the front seats.
Bought power washer and degreased most of underbody. Still need to pull engine and trans to get at the rest and remove the front k-member.
I'll be purchasing a welder next week after I get paid Thursday and plan on using the old quarter and pass side fender as practice scrap.
Still haven't made it to the yard yet to cut out the replacement quarter, may have to buy one off of the internet if I can find a place that will send me the whole thing and not just the outer sheet metal.
Still looking for a few engine parts. Got a bench grinder so I can clean up some of the rusty hardware (suspension hardware is being replaced). As soon as I have the welder, I'll get the sheet I need to cut to fix those holes and then the lower door skins, followed by the Rust Bullet.

OH, and I realigned the hatch according to GM's instructions. No removing glass from the panel, took me a half hour and looks tons better than before, and I didn't have to replace the glass...

Not too much work done on the body as it's been snowing pretty good here... Another half inch of snow before New Year's and we have ourselves a new record for snowfall for the month . Mostly been stuck inside cleaning up the basement .
Old 12-25-2010, 03:53 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Ah gotta love snow/budget shortfalls. Although please tell me you covered the car prior to the snow lol. How are you tackling the rust on the floors?
Old 12-25-2010, 03:57 PM
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Car: 2003 Hyundai Tiburon GT
Engine: 2.7L V6
Transmission: 6-speed
Axle/Gears: 4.41
Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Yes, the car is covered and has been for at least 6 weeks.

The major rust outs have been completely cut out half an inch around each hole. And will be further sanded to check for additional rust and to clean the metal for the patches. Only patch I'm worried about is the one in the rear of the driver's side floor, with the complex curve.
Old 12-25-2010, 04:30 PM
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Car: 91 Trans Am 'vert
Engine: LB9
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.45 9 bolt
Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

Good to see that it's getting fixed the right way. Oh and I forgot to ask, how are you replacing the metal in the battery tray? The one in my car is rotted and I was told that welding in a new one might be difficult for fear of burning through the good metal (which apparently is rather thin), but I doubt that welding it is impossible. I was thinking about cutting out a piece from a junked car and using that, what are you gonna do?
Old 12-25-2010, 05:37 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

I already cut that out as well. As for replacing it, there's 3 Camaros at the yard where I would be getting the replacement quarter from. I'll check those first, and then, if I have to, I'll cut the spot welds on what's left of the tray and then weld in a flat sheet if I can find no other alternative or a way to bend it. Then, I would either relocate the battery to the other side or to the back of the car.
Old 12-29-2010, 12:57 PM
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Re: Need an opinion: Worth the cost?

I'd cut out the tubs and mini tub it, but that's me


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