jb3829

iTrader: (1)

I know this method will have its share of haters, but I went ahead and did it anyway. The local bodyshop wanted $150 to weld up the pockets. The panel bond was $40. From what I've read this should hold up forever and the rage body filler adheres to the panel bond. I removed all paint, cut the panels about 1/2" larger than the holes, applied the bond, clamped the pieces in place with strong magnets and let cure overnight. Now for the bodyfiller.....

deadbird

I may easily be reading this wrong but, you made your filler pieces larger than needed to cover the handle and key holes ? Which, seems like it would make your filler pieces sitting on top of the door skin instead of being flush ?

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

yessir.....its 22 gauge.......I've done this before....as long as you're good with bodyfiller the edge disappears

haps

iTrader: (4)

So, you'll need to cake on the body filler to hide the edge of the filler plates leaving half of the door laden with mud? Great mod.

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

you should really go back and make it flush before applying body filler and painting it. If you brought it to a shop and they did it that way, I bet you'd be pissed at them. If you want your 3rd gen to look great, don't hold yourself to any lower of a standard than you would a pro.

deadbird

Mmm, I can't say i agree 100% with the method myself but, 22gage is only o.o3" (o.76mm) thick, it's not that much filler. I'd have trimmed the filler pieces to have gotten them to fit flush at least though.

edit: +1 for JeremyNYR's statement.

haps

iTrader: (4)

There is the thickness of the epoxy to account for as well.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Im guessing he used the 3m panel bond because he cant/didnt want to weld the slugs in.
That being said. 3m panel bond is strong as hell. If I couldnt weld them. I would have done it like this

1. cut a panel out to fit the inside of the door xxx bigger to cover both holes. 3m bonded in it.

2. cut the slugs to fit inside the holes.
3. 3m bonded them to the back filler piece.

would have been a flush fit. Then very little filler would be needed to do a skim coat to finish it all off before painting.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

like the first line reads....." the body shop wanted $150 compared to $40 for the panel bond"......his flux welder would most likely have burned thru the patch and warped the crap out of the door and he doesn't want to pay thru the nose for something he can do himself. And it really doesnt need a lot of filler.....the pic makes it look worse than it is

91 Droptop

This is not a bad way to do it, Bondo is not the devil! when used correctly it lasts a really long time. The problem is all the hacks out there who do not know how to use it, why would you say "cake it on". The last guy was right, if you are not a welder (and just because you have a welder, it does not make you a welder) you will lay all that heat down and warp your door. I give you credit for doing it the best way you could, if you take your time with the sanding you will never know those patches are there. Good luck Brother post some pics when done.

haps

iTrader: (4)

Anything more than a skim coat is an incorrect use of filler.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

the term "skim coat" is way overused...if not misused......everyone thinks it means thin layer of filler over a panel. Filler is designed to be applied and sanded off....usually sanding more off than you put on which is what I am doing. The filler isn't being "caked on"....there's not even an 1/8 of an inch on there....I'm just using it to hide the line.....I'll make sure to post more pics

91 Droptop

That is not true, we do not want to turn the car on its side and pour it in a hole like cake batter. When you have to weld you some times need more than just a skim coat, the proper way is to use skim coats. You need to mix the bondo and hardner apply to the area with a rubber blade, let it thuroughly dry then sand, add more skim coats as you go. Do you really think that a shaved (welded) door only gets a skim coat.

Another way to do it is to apply the patch from the inside of the door, then cut your second slugs to fit directly into the holes. This would eliminate a lot of feather sanding, just remember too hot on the weld and your fixing the entire door from heat warp. It is eveyonre right to fix things the way they see fit, this is how you live and learn. The first time I hung a quarter panel I welded it on while my GTO was on the lift, I put it down and heard a loud bang!!! hence one buckled quarter, live and learn.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

wow , isnt that what i said above. and THEN use just a skim coat.
If ya wanta get all technical ID bust out my tig and tac the slugs in all around untill every tac makes a solid weld. then smooth em out with sanding disks. very minimum filler needed ,etc.

OP did a good job for wanting to save $. All I was sayng is it would have been a little better if he bonded a panel inside and then bonded his slugs to that.

91 Droptop

I appologize, I did not even see that post, sorry Brother

deadbird

Wouldn't this require cutting out the original pocket for the handle ?

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

progress so far.....after two "skim coats" of filler and sanding with 180 on a DA. I'm gonna add one more "skim coat" to fill in the gouges then feather it. The second pick shows the other door before adding filler. These patches stick out less the 1/16 of in inch...IDK maybe 0.08" if that? It was hard to get a decent pic with the glare from the sheet metal......I would have been finishing the door like this even if I had some bodyshop rape me for the weld job anyway.....I'm happy and the $110 saved went to the door popper kit.

91 Droptop

Yes it would, this is how it has been done for years, you cut out a section and fabricate a slug t weld in. But with the invention of 3m Panel Bond it is easier to use this rather than heat up the door metal. Again this is just my opinion, and you know what hey say about opinions.

91 Droptop

Do you have a nice long board sander? you can use a ferring strip cut down, looks good so far.

deadbird

Nothing wrong with that. It just seems like extra work (cutting a hole to patch it) for no actual reason since you're just covering an indention.
Everyone has their own way.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

I have one somewhere around here and thanks!

jimmy_pop15

iTrader: (1)

Panel bond shouldn't be used as the only means of holding two pieces of metal together. You are supposed to have "anchor welds" if you read the directions that come with the panel bond.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

I read the directions thank you and the only welds you would need are at the rear of say a minivan panel or truck bed near the tailgate....(eg: structural location which this is not) anyway, if you do a search on youtube for 3m panel bond (which is what I did before buying it) you will see where you are wrong.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

oh wait!.....I found the directions.....notice the blue and red lines?.....the directions state the blue lines are the bonded areas whereas the red lines are suggested weld areas......if you look at the pics you'll see the theres a whole roof skin bonded without a weld as well as a door skin. I do my research dude..... thanks for your input.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

So even if these things only stick out a fraction of a millimeter, even after being smoothed, it's still gonna reflect light poorly since it's basically a gigantic high spot.

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

hi there i have been and custom painter/body man i know ur not going to give a damn what i have to say but.. the way ur doing it is wrong ur saying u save up 110dlls on the long run its going to crack is not a "structural location" but ur going to open and closed that door causes vibracion , instruccions dont mean nothing because companys will tell u anything to sell there product .. but its ur car and u can do anything u want with it . ideal thing is to weld it like the other guys told u to, not all people are haters like u posted some are just trying to get out the right path

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

OMG.......its not a gigantic high spot.....I think the door handle looks far worse than an area that reflects light poorly......I'm more worried about the dent I fixed in the left quarter........ its not a show car.....its for fun.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

Only time will tell..........this car is a project.....not a daily driver and it will be driven maybe every weekend when its nice out.. If it fails then I'll admit I was wrong.............whats the worst that can happen?...I have plenty of time to undo what I did.....its really not that big of a deal

brooksz2891

LOL, Everyone has thier own way of doing things. I just like reading the replies to this because you have some know-it-alls that think thier way is the only way. The way I lookk at it is, if your comfortable doing it the way you are and its not a safety issue ( I say that because I have my kids that ride in my car) , and the job comes out the way you wanted it then ****, you did a good job. I live in Lubbock TX and there is a place here maybe some of you heard of them, HILLS HOTRODS. They are based out of cali but have a shop here. I dont know what I am doing when it comes to "fabricating" LOL so I let the pros do it. Im having T-Tops put in my 91 Z28, and the handles shaved, also having the bumper covers and the fenders and quarter panels made into one piece. I don;t know how to do that **** so im not gonna even try, but if you do, then more power to you and great job so far on your project JB

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

thanks brooks

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

sure i mean everyone gotta start somewhere .no body starts out being good at what they do takes practice and errors keep up what ur doing like u said u can do it again

brooksz2891

No problem if anything keep me posted with your progess. Have a good night and have fun!! BTW I am from YORK , PA

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

cool.......

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

It is a gigantic high spot. Something sticking out a millimeter is quite a bit. It's not gonna reflect the light well at all once it's cleared, but like you said, you don't really care, which is why you are using panel bond in the first place.

haps

iTrader: (4)

Brooks, next time you're at Hills(great place BTW) ask them their thoughts on using glued in filler plates for shaving your handles.

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is not the best way to shave your handles. Weld in plates, being careful not to apply too much heat as Droptop eluded to. If experience has taught me anything, it's that the epoxy will shrink leaving a silhouette in the topcoat around the filler plates. Eventually, as 1BAD suggested, the vibration and open/close cycles will more than likely make it crack. I'm all for saving $$$, but I think in the long run it pays to spend the extra $$ up front.

brooksz2891

I will ask. I love Hills. I understand what everyone is saying about the filler and the plates versus welding the plates in, but This guy isnt claiming to be a professional nor is it someone elses car that he is doing this to. If he is happy doing it this way and happy with the outcome that have at it. Personally like I mentioned before, I dont know what I am doing and that is why I am leaving it to the professionals at Hills, But if I did do it myself i would weld a back plate in the door and the a filler plate on the exterior. But everyone has thier own ways of doing it.

white gold 88

I've never seen a glued seam that didn't show up later. With the heat in the south it takes about 6 months for things to shrink and let the seam bleed up to the top. Glue horizontal seams at factory pinchwelds and weld vertical pinchwelds is pretty much the rule. Most manufacturers only recommend that certain panels in certain areas be glued/bonded.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

Exactly Brooks......it's my car, my time, my dime. I have a budget and I want to get the thing back on the road. If it fails or looks like #@!, I will post the pic so all the fanatics can pat themselves on the back and give themselves an attaboy...heres a pic of my suv that I fixed with 22 gauge and panel bond 3yrs ago. The area right below the bottom of the taillight was caved in when someone hit it and drove off. It's is a piece of 22 gauge that I shaped, bonded, then filled over with rage filler. I even fixed the rip in the plastic part of the bumper with 3M duramix plastic repair. I never got around to buffing it but hey, no one has stopped me to say the light doesn't reflect off it correctly . Thanks for all the input!

haps

iTrader: (4)

Even the most modest of projects could withstand a $90 allowance for welding the pieces in. You'll spend three times that to repair it in the future.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

my money goes to the house and 3 kids first.....what little is left goes to the toy. I'm prepping, sanding, priming, painting and buffing the car myself. If it fails I am going to be the one repairing it.....not the body shop so I know it won't cost me 3x's more money to fix it.....just my time. And if and when it does, by that time my welding skills should be better and maybe I'll upgrade to a better welder. I have plenty of time.....$ is a different story. My oldest son is 3.....I hope to have the car done for his 16th birthday....lol

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

right on .. worst part is that went is cracks it going to be rework the crack part and repainted (more money and work ) but like i said before it his car and his money . my dad told me cheaper isnt always better in the end u going to end up paying twice for not doing it right the first time i have learn that lol

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

btw hill hot rods got some nasty rides oh man love there rides

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

progress so far.......I let the doors bake in the sun all week and this door just needs one last shot of filler to smooth out the low spot. Uncovered some old work just below the area while in the process

91 Droptop

Did you use Duraglass for the first coat?

91 Droptop

For al those that doubt 3M panel bond, buy a tube and glue a part to another, if you and can get it apart (with out power tools, you should be the strong man in the circus)

As far as light no reflecting off a high spot, that would be incorrect. light will still refract just fine but it will highlight a high or low spot.

Welding is the proper method, but YOU STILL NEED BONDO, so closing and slamming the door should not matter. If you pour bondo on like cake batter yes it will crack and break, this is why I asked if Duraglass was used first, it has strands of glass in it to add strength.

Guys I have been in the paint and body business for close to 30 years now, have done many cars, restorations, hotrods. You live and you learn, prep work is the key to any good job. I will post a few pics of my 91, I am restoring this car right now, and yes I had to use Bondo on a few low spots and dings. I always hammer and dolly out what I can, and replace any panel that is beyond repair.

I say good luck to you and keep taking good care of that family of yours.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

Rage body filler....that's it and thanks!

haps

iTrader: (4)

We didn't question the adhesion properties of the panel bond, just voiced our concern for it cracking under cyclical operation and vibration. It also appears I'm not the only one that has had experience with this method ghosting through the topcoat. It's important for the OP to understand what may happen when standard practice is circumvented. Having been in the business for 30 years, you'd know that body filler isn't always necessary, and it's possible to make these repairs/mods without it's use.

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

i agree

91 Droptop

I double checked the tube, 3M doesnt mention that if you vibrate the car its product will not adhere, I posted this before this is not the industry standard on how to preform this modification. This guy did it the best way that he could with the funds he had, and I would like to see you finish a repair like that with no filler. You will need pick hammers, rounded and square dollies along with an english wheel. Be prepared to spend about 20-30 hours worth of labor on each door to get it perfect. You are suggesting the type of restoration you would put into a Pierce Arrow, or a Shelby 500. The concourse level show cars recieve this, oh by the way the bill is usually between 40 -50K, and that is just for the body and paint. That type or work is done by specialists, not your average body shop.

I now officially withdraw from this thread, this guy did not post "how do I shave my handles" he was just excited about a mod he did. To keep putting his work down or saying this is not the correct way is just down right wrong. I really need to stay out of the body section, to much of a hassle to explain every move you make, peace guys.

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

we didnt say it will not adhere we said is going to crack on the long run because of vibracion